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Running a Lyrik Ultimate and it's pretty good after some time tinkering with set up.
However, for my weight, Rockshox reckon 90psi. I'm running closer to 75psi which gives about 20% sag. Are most people finding it that far off?
I've also got both the HSC and LSC damping wide open and would possibly go lighter on both if I could. Seems odd for someone at 190lbs (on a good day)
Is anyone in the UK custom tuning the damper? Or, should I look for a complete replacement damper?
Just had the forks apart today to see if the bushings were overly tight but was surprised to find they're spot on.
Do we still need to bump new topics?
I'm the same with both LSC and HSC wide open on mine - a Yari fitted with the Charger 2.1 RCT3. Happy as is but would be keen to see how it felt with even less compression. Last ride I tried it at the exact recommended pressure (87psi) for my weight (92kg) and didn't get full travel, can't remember what the sag was.
Got both Pikes and Lyriks with the RC2 2.1 dampers. Initially set them up at 30% sag with a digital pump, low and high speed wide open and 30% of clicks from tortoise on rebound. Once happy with that I fine tune the air pressure and record the gauge reading to get maximum travel when needed and may mess with the rebound a click or two either way.
Do the recording of the settings for each of the riders and then its an easy fix when we swap bikes around for the weight and riding style.
The RC2 damper on my new set of Pike Ultimates is the first time I've thought 'finally an HSC circuit I can turn lower than I need.'
But then, I'm 92kgs with a preference for not much in the way of compression damping. And a fair amount of pressure in the spring.
OPs experience sounds wrong. Fork issue or rearward weight distribution?
Wouldn’t worry about what your shock pump reads. Gauges on them not very accurate, especially if a bit old and well used.
Key thing I’ve found is to stick to same pump regardless, that way at least your pressure is consistent.
Not a rear weight bias, very much in the middle of the bike when descending. Shock pump says 80psi, it's the two shokwiz that say 75psi. All significantly lower than the Rockshox recommendation pressure.
Normally riding rocky lump trails so favour a faster moving fork but I still would have expected to be in the middle of the adjustment range, especially as the consensus is that the compression circuit is much lighter than the original charger.
I'm 200lbs, on a 170mm lyrik ultimate (on a Geometron G1). B1 airshaft, the C1 airshaft is junk, its too harsh. Rockshox should of removed the sag gradients from the fork to fix the forks not showing the right travel, rather than removing the sag down they were getting (which is good and makes the fork supple off the top).
93psi, 1 token, although will probably put my half token in and go up a few psi. 1 from open on high speed compression, 4 from open on low speed and somewhere in the middle for rebound (I run the bike pretty quick)
Charger 2 damper was a big step forward from the 1, the 2.1 isn't as big a step, but you now have a more useful range of adjustment without going in and playing with shims and different oil weights (other half is 70kg and was running lighter oil, on 2.1 damper, run it stock)
IMO, 30% sag in a fork is too much, will be sitting in the ramp up a lot.
Something seems a little off as I’m around 78kg (172lbs) kitted up and I run my 170mm 29er Lyrik Ultimate at 75psi which is just under 30% sag. The fork feels plush but still has decent levels of support with no compression dialed in.
What are the forks not doing?
What terrain are you riding?
Check the pressure with another pump, it could be miles out, if its a few psi, I wouldn't worry.
On the whole, they're pretty good. I'm just greedy and want more. Although air pressure seems low compared to others but I do a good job of using the travel without bottoming out.
Just feels a little harsh at times. Maybe it's not the amount of compression damping but the quality of it.
As above, both shokwiz say 75, shock pump says 80. All near enough.
Just had the Charger 2 replaced with a Charger 2.1 in my Lyrik. It’s a B1 model so the previous air shaft that sags under the bike’s weight (especially on my Levo). I’m about 80kg and the bike is fairly hefty, running 102psi, HSC on 1 click (I think) and LSC about halfway. 160mm 29er. The 2.1 is definitely a softer tune than the 2
Which air shaft do you have?
I'm under 80kg setting sag between 20-25 %, 1 or 2 clicks from open hsc and 4-5 clicks of lsc and 5-6 rebound.
It's the latest and "greatest" version of debonair which runs at slightly lower pressure than the previous version but that's still accounted for in the trailheads app.
B1 airshaft, the C1 airshaft is junk
This very much, which version of the airshaft are you running?
Edit: nevermind..then id recommend you get that C1 airspring in the bin and put the B1 in.
Seb Stott’s review explains the B1 to C1 difference pretty well: https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/forks/suspension-forks/2021-rockshox-lyrik-ultimate-fork-review/
I know when the press releases for the C1 came out I couldn’t make sense of the contradiction in their claims.
Is the air spring really capable of making that much difference?
It's a recent fork so yeah, it is a C1. Very little force required to get it moving after a fettle.
Wonder if anyone who "upgraded" to the C1 still have spare bits. Or of a 170 B1 shaft is still available (forks running 160)
It’s the latest and “greatest” version of debonair which runs at slightly lower pressure than the previous version but that’s still accounted for in the trailheads app.
The ****erteering was strong from rockshox on that one! On the trailhead app, I get the same 90psi pressure.
It was to remedy forks sinking into their travel and not displaying the correct amount of stanchion. Take the sag gradients off and make the shafts a bit longer. Alternatively, do some proper product validation, but thats not going to happen!
Yeah, hence the quotation marks. Vorsprung said with the Lufftcapp that it wasn't suitable for people who worried about each individual mm of advertised travel.
I'd strong recommend you try the B1 airshaft, it will make a huge difference imo..(and clearly other peoples).
tbh im amazed that the 'media' didn't get all over how much of a backwards step this was...its awful.
Yup, the air spring makes a difference. I had the 150mm b1 on my ebike. It was really supple but sagged 20% under its own weight. Bike felt like it too front heavy. Went to a 160mm C1 air shaft to get front end up but didn’t like the feel of it. Holds up nicely but as stated feels harsher on smaller hits, especially footy stuff. Changed the seal head and foot nut over and running essentially a 160mm B1. Now sags 10% under its own weight but riding sag at 30% feels much better. Supple but higher thanks to longer air spring. 92kg and running 110psi and no tokens. Select + version so old charger, running 3 clicks of compression from fully open.
The C1 spring wants to ride higher, like the original solo air. If you've got both compressions wide open, is that because of harshness? If so, the problem is actually packing on the rebound. Why? Because you're at too low pressure for a start.
You should:
1. Add more air
2. Speed up your rebound by two clicks
3. Get the LSC and HSC back into the game: middle on HSC and 2-4 clicks from full open on LSC
4. Move a spacer from under your stem to on top. Believe me you won't be able to tell the difference between a 30% sagged B1 and a 20% sagged C1 after you've adjusted your body to be in the same place (actually I'm exaggerating: you will be able to tell but it won't be much)
It's a sound theory but I'm at 20% sag, well 18% actually. I'll give it a go, but more air is only going to reduce that. I'm not running any tokens either so more air would mean less travel as well.
tbh im amazed that the ‘media’ didn’t get all over how much of a backwards step this was…its awful.
Paid advertising. Rumour has it that Sam Hill amongst others have been running luftkapps, even when the B1 was available
Anyone running more air than recommended in the 160 lyrik ultimate? , only me then, think Im around 10psi more than the recommended, I tend not run any tokens, no idea of exact sag but somewhere between 18 and 22%, also a couple of clicks faster on the recommended rebound.
I've always thought 30% in a fork is nonsense, bit thats just my opinion.
Despite the rockshox lack of service instructions you can tune the shimstack.
@bigyan Is anyone in the UK doing that? Is it useful or is doing such a thing hobbled by the flow ports in the base piston?
I've had an Avalanche damper in a Fox 36 before and it was fantastic. They now do a hybrid version with a coil spring on top of the damper. You still have the air spring side but running significantly less pressure. It certainly sounds interesting.
You could try Rick at Slick and Slide, he is replacing the compression adjuster seals so can fully strip charger 2/2.1 dampers. He also has a dyno so can properly test and log the damper performance.
I have not been paying much attention to exactly who has been doing what (as I do my own), but there are various pictures on instagram of people re tuning, one company was offering an "unharsh" tune
Did you check for air build up in the lowers? That can cause the fork to feel quite harsh. Use the zip tie past the seal trick.
I tuned my "RC" damper by removing one of the shims that preloads the HSC circuit.
It's one of the ones above the ring shim in this pic
They work like this to preload the shim stack
However, I'm not sure how this would work with the RC2, as the HSC adjuster effectively does the job of changing the shims that preload the HSC.
Also, doesn’t increased high speed compression damping actually reduce harshness (to a point)?
The idea being that the damping absorbs the energy of impact and transfers it to the oil. If you’re using next to no compression damping then all force goes into the spring, and needs to be dissipated by rebound damping on the return stroke. Setting rebound too slow then leads to packing and harshness.
@bigyan I think it's Dougal in New Zealand who offers the unharsh tune.
@horatioHufnagel No air trapped in the lowers. I've done the ring shim move on a couple of 2016 Pikes with the original Charger and it worked pretty well.
I find it all quite confusing. The adjustments aren't orthogonal. One effects the other. Adding HSC also adds LSC, which stops the HSC opening to start with too. According to PUSH, about half the damping actually comes from resistance in the air spring itself too (when its in good condition). So if its been a while since its been serviced, it will provide even more resistance and that will make the fork feel harsh.
I should add I actually ended up putting that shim back as I changed to an ebike and wanted more support.