[Closed] Is 650b dead?

Have you no thought for the kittens? Their population has only just recovered!

Thoughts with the kittens.

Gravel bikes will keep the flag flying.

A lot of 29ers are now becoming much more agile, overcoming the one remaining downside of bigger wheels, so... maybe. 650b+ seems to have died with 2.4-2.8 tyres sort of becoming the new norm, and most 27.5 and 29 MTB's can take a 2.6 with ease.

Gravel 650b wheels will keep the market there, but they're non-boost so all the boost 27.5" wheels are useless. Until Gravel bikes go boost, that is...

Why don’t gravel bikes have 29 wheels instead of 650b

Don't gravel bikes run 700c?

Some gravel bikes run 700c or have the ability to do either 700c or road plus type size.

Cutting the 700c compatibility allows the use of short chainstays: "Tukt" geometry. Also more nimble front steering can be accommodated with wide tyres (47mm! Or more!), decent guards and no overlap. The thing to remember is that they are trying to get that more "roadie"ish feeling into the off of roads.

Also: I can't be alone in feeling like 29er tyes are noticeably more lethargic to spin up, can I? It's an element of the tyre size conversation that seems to get mentioned less and less as time goes on.

I honestly think that 29" will be pretty much standard for medium and up frame sizes. 650b for smaller frames.

I don't think 650b will totally go the way of 26" though.

That said, there mere fact this question gets asked at all is pretty remarkable when you think of how tepid the reaction to them on mtb was when they first came out.

Now? I can't but wonder that if you want maximum resale value (if that's your thing) from a bike purchase that 29" is now the way to go.

I totally skipped 650b and went from 26 straight to 29 and I'm bloody glad I did.

It's all subjective though and I wouldn't lose sleep over what wheel size I happened to ride.😁

Personally, we concluded, we like the agility of the smaller wheels, but are they going the way of the dodo?

26” is going to blow your mind

Hope not, all the 29er bikes I've ridden (not many) have felt sluggish in the twisty stuff. I reckon 27.5/650b is the happy medium between 26 and 29, so hopefully stays for a very long time.

I’ve ridden my last two hardtail frames, a SC Chameleon and Cotic Solaris Max in both 27.5+ and 29 guises. I preferred both with the slightly smaller wheels.

I’m now riding a 27.5 Pace RC627 with 2.6 tyres because I like how it handles. I enjoyed the speed of 29, and the rolling, but its just a bit duller. I had a Stanton Sherpa a while back. Again a great bike but you couldn’t get it between the trees, or off the ground as easily as a 27.5 bike.

Year after year I read the line, “now these modern 29ers are handling much better”. I’ve tried a couple and yes they are OK, just not as fun as 27.5. All the geometry tweaks in the world can’t change The laws of Physics.

It would be a shame if we all were forced to ride only 29 just because of marketing. I made my choice purely on how I like to ride.

650b makes trails come alive Shirley 😉

Maybe they are both dying and its time for a new wheel size

28?

It's all about 'fringe' bikes this season i.e. reverse mullet bikes.

I'm running a 29er wheel out back and a 26 wheel on the front of my xc rig. It means I'm almost horizontal to the ground when climbing steep terrain which is a great position to shave seconds off my ride and make me feel like Nino Schurter. Going downhill can be a painful experience though so I run BMX riser bars to compensate.

When Super Boost makes all the Boost frames old hat in late 2020 they might decide a new wheel size is the way to go.

I think The Industry has proved that it can kill off any wheel size any time it wants and we just have to suck it up.

36" is the next big thing.
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/truebikes-36in-wheeled-bike/

Mullet is where it's at, lots of talk from my mate who's an EWS mechanic about them.

I honestly think that 29″ will be pretty much standard for medium and up frame sizes. 650b for smaller frames.

I don’t think 650b will totally go the way of 26″ though.

I think you're probably right.

I don't really keep up with the latest bikes so much, but the two friends who most recently bought bikes bought 29ers. I just had a quick look for 2020 bikes, seems a decent mix of 275 and 29 and yes a couple who offer 275 on the smaller frames and 29 on larger which makes a lot of sense I think.

TBH I'm way past worrying now, 26 "died" in 2013 (2014 year mainstream bikes were all 275 or 29 bar Spesh) but you can still buy tyres, tubes etc, even forks if you try hard enough, that's nearly 7 years ago now, and enough riders still seem to feel the need to tell everyone their 26ers still work.

'The Industry' seems more than willing and able to support 'old' standard long after they stopping selling new ones so if 275 "dies" I think we'll all be just fine, but I don't think it will. Seems we can have 2 wheels sizes at the same time as the Earth still turning.

I went out on one of my old bikes on Saturday, a 1996 rigid Cannondale M200SE. It was great fun cutting through the mud with the classic Smoke and Dart combo. All the standards on this bike are long gone but it was still fun, and very fast rolling.

Also: I can’t be alone in feeling like 29er tyes are noticeably more lethargic to spin up, can I?

2008 called and want their opinions back

https://www.mtb-mag.com/en/opinion-27-5-is-dead/?fbclid=IwAR1BihoEtf2qJKpC_QF8OshgRTqS5P48ST3gNH_qyRsfc0Ni3zyP0EumedI

Can 29ers be referred to as skill compensators the way folks refer to FS bikes in this way?. I keep hearing how they roll over stuff better, so would seem like a skill compensator.

Same as 27.1 is over 26 btw.

plus one

Member
650b makes trails come alive Shirley

Beaten to it...

As a household of 5no. 27.5, 1no. 29, 2no. 700c and about to be 1no. 27.5 cc, they best not be...

I think 650b hardtails are dead.  29 will dominate the rest (maybe already does) but there will always be slopestyle  on 26 and bike park DHers on 27.5. All racing will be  on 29ers I reckonz.

I totally skipped 650b and went from 26 straight to 29 and I’m bloody glad I did.

I did the same, although I still have two 26" bikes vs one 29er. I've always thought 650b was marketing bulls**t from the beginning, from a riding point of view the difference between 650b and 26" is so small it's not worth bothering.

It definitely looks like the bike industry is pushing 29ers now over 650b, it's a shame they couldn't have just gone with 29" to start with to exist alongside 26". Then they could have had their new wheel size to sell bikes and not pissed off a load of people by trying to kill off 26".

Although I still don't think 26" is as dead as some people would have you believe!

650b/27.5 was some use when introduced, the problem was it was touted as one wheel size to rule them all (particularly by Giant IIRC), which it wasn't. Wheel size is a good example of the industry not getting its way - if it had, there would be no 26 or 29.

Unlike 15mm front axles, which were and are pointless, 20mm was fine.

XS 24"
S 26"
M 27.5
L 29
XL 29+

No, but it seems to be taking a back seat these days.

Personally I prefer the feel of 29 - the extra gyroscopic effect and the BB lower than the axles thing - but some of my pals prefer 650b and we haven't let it spoil our friendships.

It's not going away any time soon.

Yep, can't see it going anytime soon. Ridden 29ers since they first appeared along with 26" and 650b and i cant say I'll be ditching 650b anytime soon.

One aspect of 29ers that doesn't work for me particularly now on the full suspension 29ers is the high stack heights... although average height, ive never got on with high front ends and struggle to get the bars sufficient low, must have ape like arms 🤷

I think 650b's are going to go the way of the dodo....

I've got a 650b bike at present (2018 YT capra), and I've had a few rides on various 29ers (ibis ripmo, 2015 specialized enduro, 2018 specialized enduro), there's no doubt the 29ers roll over stuff better, and as a result probably carry speed easier, but I always felt like I was riding a little bit on stilts on them, hard to explain, it might just be a setup thing that could be adjusted out?

I guess I'd get used to them if I had no choice, but I really dont want a 29er, but I suspect that soon I will not have the choice.

next bike will be a 29er, i'm currently running my chameleon as a mullet, 29x2.4 wild enduro on the front and a 650b x2.8 on the rear, my mate attempted to follow me up a muddy climb few weeks back and he said my wheels were like moses parting the brown sea.

got my best time down potatoe alley on saturday so must be the future..

ps. wider rims and geo changes have vastly improved 29ers in recent years, so tyres dont seem to squirm as much

ps. wider rims and geo changes have vastly improved 29ers in recent years, so tyres dont seem to squirm as much

i think what you mean is they have improved “bikes” it’s not specific to 29ers.  Certainly tyre squirm isn’t. For me better thought out and designed tyre structure coupled with wider rims and in some instances inserts has changed the game in recent years

Welcome back to 2013:

Joe Grainey, telling us how marginally better 650b is (than 26) and that we should all stop thinking and buy more new shit...

@cha****ng -

No, but it seems to be taking a back seat these days.

Personally I prefer the feel of 29 – the extra gyroscopic effect and the BB lower than the axles thing – but some of my pals prefer 650b and we haven’t let it spoil our friendships.

It’s not going away any time soon.

I have always struggled to match the reasonable-sounding "bb lower than the axles" thing with the mechanics, whenever I try to model what is going on it all comes back to a simple "bigger wheels roll over stuff better".

I have always struggled to match the reasonable-sounding “bb lower than the axles” thing with the mechanics, whenever I try to model what is going on it all comes back to a simple “bigger wheels roll over stuff better”.

As neither a physicist nor a bike designer, my intuitive take on it is that the BB (and therefore your feet when level) being lower than the axles helps to encourage the big wheels to roll over things better - creating a kind of "scooping and pushing" effect.

Though bigger wheels obviously roll over things easier anyway too.

Though one area where axle height itself appears relevant is in gyroscopic forces from the wheel, which will operate through the axle, which is at a different height.

My bike has wheels.

I'm keeping it forever.

"That's like a f*****g hundred bored, cynical, angry ****s!....and let's stop paying attention..."

I thought there were more of us.

Most if not all entry level real MTBs i.e. £500 is seem to be 650b. In Specialized you need to level up to £800 to get a 29er.

Most if not all entry level real MTBs i.e. £500 is seem to be 650b. In Specialized you need to level up to £800 to get a 29er.

I think this is something that doesn't get mentioned much but it's more expensive to make a set of light strong 29er wheels and tyres than a set of light strong 26" wheels and tyres.

But yeah, let's keep making wheels bigger and raising that barrier to entry to the sport. Who needs kids when your main market is middle aged men?

Frames are pretty much 650b+ and 29 compatible these days, which makes sense for the industry. Most complete bikes come with 29 but the rider can choose to switch to +.

But yeah, let’s keep making wheels bigger and raising that barrier to entry to the sport.

Seriously?

There’s enough 27.5 still being made, also the electric bike market has a lot of 27.5. Just go with your favourite colour.

<Personally, we concluded, we like the agility of the smaller wheels, but are they going the way of the dodo?

26” is going to blow your mind.>

I'm still on 26, as is the other guy.

Tbh I still think they are fine. Unlike LLS so little benefit to changing.

As it is, 650b very similar to 26.

Basically, we were discussing the new Marin Rift Zone 2020 and were disappointed that the Hawk Hill hadn't got the same geometry treatment.

TBF bike companies are in the business of selling bikes and therefore the 're-baselining' of standards (including wheel diameters) that took place over the last decade or so has been instrumental in helping them to keep doing that. A bike bought only five years ago is probably already suffering from a degree of "obselecence" in some people's eyes.

Let's not be under the illusion that SRAM, Shimano, Giant, Trek, SBC, SC or any of the other big boys are charities...

Lots of us work in other commercial environments where changes over time are inevitable and often those changes are prompted simply by the need to generate future sales rather than really improving anything.

The thing that sort of happened pretty much concurrently with the introduction of 27.5 wheels was of course wider adoption of the whole LLS geometry thing for general duty MTBs, which (IMO) suits the use of 29" wheels anyway, if the whole bike is getting longer and more stable anyway why wouldn't you adopt those easier rolling, bigger diameter wheels?
Hence customers are less interested in tweener wheels for that sort of application today, just a handful of years on from their introduction...

Like many people I skipped from 26" to 29" to my way of thinking if bigger wheels are "better" why bother with a halfway house option? Overall that was the right choice (for me), 29ers happen to suit me better now...

The problem I can see the MTB market getting into in years to come is that instead of prompting more frequent, expensive bike purchases the pace of change could well end up driving enthusiasts away. Who can really afford to be buying a whole new bike every 24 months just to keep up with the industry's constant push of "more/newer/better"? I know I can't...

The problem I can see the MTB market getting into in years to come is that instead of prompting more frequent, expensive bike purchases the pace of change could well end up driving enthusiasts away.

I really think the bulk of the big changes are done and we're going to see more stability in geometry (see what I did there?), when everyone has caught up.

I've been a serial bike swapper, but have no plans to change my MTBs at all now I've got to a place where I'm totally happy with the geometries and suspension on them.

I ride both 650b and 29er bikes and like them both. I have (after spending way too much in the past few years) decided that enough is enough. I will continue to enjoy riding my bikes , regardless of the wheel size or standard, until I can't get spares any more.
New standards be damned!

Industry looks to be heading on a 29 bias. I would love to know actual sales though as many bikes are available in both flavours

My bikes, in ascending order of rim diameter:
26"
27.5"
29" and 700c
27"

29ers definitely roll better over more technical stuff. Don't like them on jumps/drops/etc, where they feel cumbersome.'Taller riders than me (I'm 5'9) don't seem to find this, though.

As for racing, I'm not 100% sure about 29ers. Troy Brosnan did pretty well this year on a 27.5 bike, and was slower when he tried a 29er. Danny Hart won on a mullet bike and Bruni won the double on one.

JP

I think there is an element of self fulfilling prophecy here too.

It starts as a joke almost, "hey,27.5's are doing the way of the Dodo!"... then it starts getting whispered around that it might actually be happening, then "people in the know" openly start saying it on the net.... next thing you know, it's actually happening.

No doubt if you now Google this subject it's getting asked more and more across the net and more and more people are consigning 27.5 to the history books. The domino effect at work.

Let's face it,many of us when we buy a new bike or frame, want it "upto date"unless it's bought for the legacy parts we have lying around. Add in manufacturers desperate not to fall behind the new buying curve and boom.... 27.5 is the new 26.

I suspect not long from now (relatively) you will see second hand prices getting affected on 27.5's too.

^^ That sentence there is big motivator as to what to buy for many a new bike purchase... Once that belief about 27.5 takes hold it really is buggered. Great for second hand buyers though.😉

I'm proper screwed. My full suss is a 2014 650b non boosted frame. Feel my pain.

It seems that there is a place for all wheel sizes when it comes to kids bikes and I believe it's islabikes belief that bigger wheels are better - helps them roll over stuff - partly because of the bottom bracket being lower than the wheel axles.

I do think it all a bit odd though how mountain bike wheels are 29" and gravel bikes are 27.5".

I like the 29" bikes I own but find 27.5" plus more fun though.

Any tried 28" plus? I'm tempted to try them but it's not a cheap change as wide rims and tyres are a bit spendy.