[Closed] Internal Cable Routing...why

Nope, I love it. Looks neat, keeps things clean and tidy and if the routing is any good (which clearly it doesn't appear to be on your 5) then it's simple to do and replace things.

In the case of orange, the internal routing is a bit of an afterthought. Other companies make a decent job of it with proper internal guiding or large holes to fish the wires through.

Hate it with a passion.

None of my MTBs have it now and Cotic and Nukeproof have clearly put some thought into their cable routing because both just work with no awkwardness and minimal visual impact.

My Spesh E29 isn't quite so great, but still better than internal.

I'm with you on this..
When my tripster v1 broke and was replaced by a v2, I loved all the new changes to the frame EXCEPT internal cables.

Similar with my Travers - the one critisism is the (almost pointless, as it just run through the top tube) internal cabling for the rear brake.

I'd MUCH rather have well thought out external routing by a long shot!

DrP

chakaping - Member

Hate it with a passion.

This. Would take being able to quickly and easily replace items over a slighter neater look any day

Love it, less to snag on branches, less to rub away at the frame and looks much neater.

just getting some of those M-part stick on guides and ditch the internal routing?

In my experience they fall off within days unfortunately.

When it's done right it's lovely*, when it's done badly it induces rage like nothing else can...

Surprised nobody has complained about LBS charging more labour for internally routed bikes yet 😉

* neat, tidy, less rub, better protection, lasts longer

darrenspink - Member
In my experience they fall off within days unfortunately.

2 years and still going on mine

Yep its a total ballache.

Makes no difference to the life of the cables either if you compare with full length outer.

Turns a simple job into a rage inducing faff. No doubt loved by the type of people who drop their bike off at the LBS for a "service"

looks more neaterer dunnit

How long until someone tries Giant Propel level internal routing?

[img] [/img]

looks more neaterer dunnit

Not when they pop in & out of the frame all over the place.

The new Canyon Spectral has it right imo - all the cables are behind a plastic cover on the downtube. Frame protection, almost zero faff cable replacement, looks tidy.

Not a fan.

My previous Stanton wasn't too bad yo do but my current Transition isn't done very well and the cables ting against the frame unless covered in something soft. Plus they were a ball ache to install. Not so bad on my carbon Demo because there are tubes internally.

Agreed that the solution on the latest Canyons looks good.

Although I do get fed up with faff sometimes when things do go quite right with internal setups. I do love the clean look

My mate at the PBS hates them... all the US model bikes come in with US braking. Thus they need to remove and replace the hydro cables on several models, because they can't be switched L-R at the handles... or something like that!

DrP

+1

Road - understandable, if a faff
MTB - just run full length outer, with lots of attachment points. I've re-done my Cube like this and it's much better. Replace a cable? 5 mins max.

I loathe it

Changing the rear brake on my son's Orange 5 was ridiculously time consuming. And what's the benefit - mainly that you can hear it coming from half a mile away

[i]Love it, less to snag on branches[/i]

Has anyone EVER had a cable snag on a branch, like ever anywhere??

only area where I think it works really well is internal dropper post routing. It fixes that annoying loop hanging being your arse/seat.

I love em, as they look great (when executed well).
Agreed, it can be a faff when carrying out major brake servicing - but as a confirmed tart its a price im willing to pay for 'oooh' factor.

Droppers should be internal as a minimum.

My Specialized has individual channels for each cable inside the frame, they’ve really thought about the person doing the installation. It’s definitely more faff than external cables but I venture that if thought about properly there’s no need for it to be rage inducing.

How long until someone tries Giant Propel level internal routing?

The new Propel is actually quite easy to sort compared with its competitors like the Trek Madone which is an utter utter ball ache to work on.

Droppers should be internal as a minimum.

If internal is the ‘minimum’ what’s the next stage? Wireless I assume? But after that what’s the maximum? Invisible?
🙂

I think they look OK on road bikes, but a lot of mountain bikes have pretty ill thought out routing that just looks like an afterthought. I also like the new designs on canyon, I think having them routed behind a shield is good looking and a neat idea.

I've seen a Scott Genius LT wear through a hydro cable once, as the internal routing, while OK for euro style brakes, made the run too tight for a UK set up and it just rubbed on the hole in the frame until it wore through.

I have never ever in 30 years of off road riding snagged a cable on a branch. Bars, mechs and pedals yes. I have however lost my shit with a snazzy carbon HT internal routing.
When I had my custom cxish bike made, all neat external full outer routing with clips so cleaning is a doddle.

Love it, less to snag on branches, less to rub away at the frame

Also things like fibrax mean cable rub isn’t an issue unless you make it one. Saracen were doing internal cabling in the 80’s, didn’t see it being an issue then or now. Can look good but decently routed external cables don’t harm any aesthetic so not bothered about it.

My carbon Transition has tubes that run inside the main tubes for the cables. This makes them easier to install (to a point - the dropper cable tube stops just before a reinforcement ring in the seat tube that the cable then won't go past :roll ).

But it begs the question, why? If they ran under the downtube they'd save the weight of these extra tubes, and the cost of fitting them and the disadvantages, as far as I can tell are that the bike would look slightly uglier. Which just isn't worth it. And there's still potential for rub.

My Trek and my aluminium Transition lack this, and while once the cables are in it's OK to swap them, it's a nightmare to set up initially. And pointless.

Stealth dropper from the bottom of the seat tube (not before) is good, though.

Santa Cruz seem to have a nice balance. Gears are guided internal routing, brakes are external 🙂

Internal routing can get in the ****ing sea.

Stealth/internal droppers are ok at a push if they absolutely must but I still prefer external for the minimum of ****ing about when I want to swap frames for whatever reason.

Don't even start me....
The grommets on the Whyte are awful to remove and put bad and for high maintenance items like Reverbs it takes longer gaffing with the grommets than a bleed...
I had the rear hose just cable tied for a while... as doing the hydraulics is just messy

Frames that don't work for left hand rear brake can do one! 😡

As another person commented, has anyone ever had a cable snag? Really?

No but I've seen a cable get ripped out of a caliper by the impact of a crash. Snagging cables is less of a problem during riding and more of a problem during storage or transport of bikes TBH.

Done well, they can be very very good indeed - nice neat lines, complete movement of the bars and for electronic gears and hydro disc brakes it's perfect since the wires/hoses can bend round any angle without any effect on the gears or brakes. There's a couple of road bikes have got it more or less spot on recently.

MTBs are still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to integration and the continued insistence of bolting on aftermarket brakes or mix-and-matching groupsets or aftermarket dropper posts which means that loads of "integrated" cables are actually really messy.

Other than droppers, totally pointless IMO.

And a pain in the ass.

Internal cables still rub the frame, it's just that you can't see it 😉

MTBs are still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to integration and the continued insistence of bolting on aftermarket brakes or mix-and-matching groupsets or aftermarket dropper posts which means that loads of "integrated" cables are actually really messy.

I'm not sure the ability to swap and mix and match is a bad thing!

But MTB's are used in a different and in the UK muddier environment than road bikes.
I buy Jagwire outer in 10m lengths and replace inners whenever ... because mud and stuff will get in regardless. I just like it to be as quick and simple as possible to change. Anything with rubber seals on the internal routing is just a pain to deal with. Pretty much any Alu or Carbon frame the actual routing isn't the problem (if you own some magnets) its the damned seals/grommets take far longer than the routing.

I like it. Built my Kinesis up and it took a couple of goes to thread an inner through, tape it to the hose and pull back.

I've had a hydraulic hose get snagged and start leaking, however I'm not convinced internal routing solves that, as it still runs down the fork leg or pops out of the chainstay which is where you would normally snag it.

Looks nice, doesn't get in the way of attaching frame/bike packing bags with velcro, and the bike is easier to wash.

Transition Carbon Patrol dropper routing is an absolute shocking piece of design!

I only have a road bike with internal routing and dislike it immensely. Too much faff no actual performance benefits for most people on or off road...

It's an aesthetic thing to my mind, borrowed from road bikes and done because half of the magpies buying mountain bikes now just like pretty things...

Internal cable routing: for the 'looks' only

function / service / upgrade: pain in the ass.
Will never buy such a bike!

Internal cable runs made me take my bike to a mechanic for the first time ever. I am sure I could have replaced the cable myself but I just couldn't face the aggravation

I like it. Built my Kinesis up and it took a couple of goes to thread an inner through, tape it to the hose and pull back.

Doing it once isn't the issue... try running something like a Reverb where you have to pull the thing out every few weeks after its "worn in"... then the cable/hose seals are going in and out... I always end up damaging them bit either getting them in or out... so over doing it a few times the seals/grommets get even harder to fit back... and of course you'd replace the thing but that means pulling the brake hose out as well...

Neither of my frames are routed brilliantly nor really badly... but both a a real pain to get the grommets out/back ... so they are a pain even when you don't need to pull a complete cable or hose out... especially the ones that take 2 ...

My Cervelo is pretty easy, changed front mech cable in about ten minutes. It's not internal routing that's the issue, it's poorly though out internal routing. Hydraulic disc road bikes with the brakes the wrong want round, internal routing and the bar tape already done, now that's an issue.

+1 Peterpoddy, assembling a current high end Madone is enough to put anyone off internal cables, massive ballache, obviously this means the bastard things are selling really well and I get to build loads 👿

[i]Doing it once isn't the issue... try running something like a Reverb[/i]

To be honest, I realised with a drop bar bike with cables under the bar tape, an internally routed dropper post would be impossible to remove (at least on my frame) as there is no where to release slack. So I went for a lever actuated post!

[quote="spooky"]To be honest, I realised with a drop bar bike with cables under the bar tape, an internally routed dropper post would be impossible to remove (at least on my frame) as there is no where to release slack. So I went for a lever actuated post!

Wiser than me .... I started off seeing the clean lines and such. Building it's all positive... even with a poorer internal routing your still in the looks nice rather than how will I service it.

I don't need to remove the hoses to bleed the reverb or remove it but just moving them is a real pain I got to hate.

It's not like fixing a poorly working dropper or poorly working mech due to cables is on my list of 10 fav things to do so when I do have to do it I just want it to be quick and easy! Even if I did spend longer over say a year due to changing stuff more frequently there is a lot to be said for something takes 15 minutes vs something takes an hour or more, especially in Winter when daylight hours are more limited..

Got to say Orange internal routing is a joke and not thought out at all.

I know haters gotta hate, but having just built up my new Hightower, Santa Cruz have it down perfectly for me. Where it’s internal there is no faf (rubber grommet aside) just push in the cable and out it pops, actually easier than external! No cable ties to worry about.

I do like the external brake hose mind as no need to worry about olives, bleeding etc.

If you have internal cable routing then you have to have extra holes in the frame. Holes in the frame are weak points so is the frame beefed up ie heavier to counter this? to me extra holes in the frame simply seem wrong

plus 1 for Santa Cruz, even the little things like cabling are sorted. My Bronson is external and so easy to work on.

Had to do the gear cable on my G160S at the weekend, inner and outer as I had managed to wear a hole in the outer somehow, never done an internally routed cable before, hope to never do one again.

Utter nightmare job, impossible to run the outer from the mech end because of the angles on the exit/entrance holes, grommets were so tight it was near impossible to feed the outer over the old inner.
I had to remove the bottom grommet where the brake and gear cables run and was a pain to try and get the new outer back through the hole again as I couldn't see inside at the right angle even with a torch(although it wasn't quite as bad as I feared getting that back in again).

In the end I was only able to do it by gorilla taping the old inner to the new outer and push/pulling it through the frame while praying that the cables didn't come detached from each other. that only worked to a point as I had to remove the tape (removing freshly applied gorilla tape is no fun task either) because the holes on the chain stay were too small, took over 2 hours across 2 evenings.

In retrospect I should have found a better way to attach the old outer to the new outer and push/pull it though that way, serves me right for watching youtube videos on the subject rather than thinking it through myself.

Think its something you just get used to and find little tricks when working on your own bike.

External routing can look messy can't it, unless its well thought out like Mondraker.

[img] [/img]

[quote=tjagain ]If you have internal cable routing then you have to have extra holes in the frame. Holes in the frame are weak points so is the frame beefed up ie heavier to counter this? to me extra holes in the frame simply seem wrong

Have a look at a welded frame. It'll have holes in various places already.

Holes in the frame are weak points

I think the weak points are the welds by a fairly large margin.

I agree that setting up internal cables and hoses is a faff. However once achieved the benefit, certainly in terms of gear cabling, is that you have a much longer period of use between replacements as there is no entry point for dirt

External full length cabling keeps the mud out just as well as internal full length cabling