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when a lot of us were riding 'back in the day' you could ride surrey hills for example and only come across a couple of riders. on any given weekend now the place is rammed with people coming down trails like its a conveyor belt.
now this in itself isnt necessarily a bad thing. the problem i think we have is the sheer numbers taking their cues from professional riders, or just other riders, posting videos skidding around the trails and/or just cutting things down/building stuff in the hope of getting maximum 'likes'.
years ago it didnt matter so much because the impact of such small number misusing trails wasnt that noticeable. these days, and its often just sheer volume of people, landowners are quickly becoming aware of issues and access is becoming a real concern.
to a certain extent i agree with some of the article and this can be borne out by the number of trails we have lost locally this year since the huge boom in numbers.
a little education would certainly help. im all for people enjoying bikes, they have given so much to me, but if things continue on as they are i fear we will loose more and more access over the coming years.
Okay I'm going to be that person.
This is exactly the problem I see with e-bikes. They allow more people to go further than they normally would or ride trails that would otherwise be left alone. Thus previously lightly used trails see more traffic, more wear and more abuse. They're not the whole story but part of it.
I saw an Instagram post from an ex-pro with a picture of an absolute quagmire, apparently they got there by normal means, sacked it off and came back to blast along it with their e-bike. Good going, that's going to help. All the likes. What chance do you have?
Looking away from the ones with sponsors to appease, it's not a hobby for these people, it's just a lifestyle that happens to be supported with a bike (or five), LWB Sprinter with a tiled and fitted kitchen (#vanlife) and an online persona. It's nothing more than unsustainable, vapid ego stroking and it's the shit people see that's going to hurt those that actually stop and give a damn about our environment and hobby.
I should probably follow that up with a disclaimer to say there is nothing inherently bad about e-bikes or posting stuff on Instagram. My issue is with the unsustainability and poor behaviour that isn't called out often enough.
Yes, trails are there for everyone but that means we should do our damnest to make sure they stay that way. As the old saying goes - take memories, leave footprints.
I think there’s a real excess of generalisation and a lack of context when moaning about “erosion” as it relates to MTBing. Cutting a new line down a peat moor or chopping certain trees in an ancient woodland is terrible. But doing the same in a conifer plantation has near zero ecological impact.
People complain about erosion on our local trails from too many riders on them once it’s wet. But when a tree falls across a trail and closes it for good, that trail is rapidly reclaimed by nature. These are deciduous woods that are only a few hundred years old. We do have a problem when kids start digging in certain spots because in these youngish woods there are archaeological features thousands of years old (and nothing to denote their presence unless you carefully inspect an OS map).
I think there’s a real excess of generalisation and a lack of context when moaning about “erosion” as it relates to MTBing. Cutting a new line down a peat moor or chopping certain trees in an ancient woodland is terrible. But doing the same in a conifer plantation has near zero ecological impact.
Context certainly matters. There are trails in the conifer plantations near me where the damage done by walkers/MTBers/horses is insignificant next to the devastation wrought by logging vehicles. Some of the worst damage I see on public bridleways is caused by illegal use of motorised vehicles (dirt bikes, quad bikes, SUVs) - the bridleway into Hamsterley over Doctors Gate being a good example. I don’t see banning of bike access being the eventual outcome, more likely increased route sanitisation (think of what has happened to routes like the one over Loughrigg Fell, or parts of the Pennine Way).
there are trails in the conifer plantations near me where the damage done by walkers/MTBers/horses is insignificant next to the devastation wrought by logging vehicles.
with landowners frequently complaining about the erosion caused by bike trails in the years just before an area is clear felled....
unfortunately my local jump spot, which isnt technically legal but has been tolerated for years now, has had signs erected by the council completely banning riding and the diggers are moving in to flatten it. this is entirely due to the huge numbers of people riding there who then clashed with the increased numbers of walkers who didnt appreciate the loud music and pot smoking, as well entire trees being dug up and huge holes left all over the place, including across the bridleway in order to build a blind jump across it.
my expectation is that once the shopping centers open again most of the new riders will go back to doing what they used to do. mountain biking for these people will just have been a moment in time, 'that summer of 2020' its frustrating that the effects will be longer term for the rest of us.
with landowners frequently complaining about the erosion caused by bike trails in the years just before an area is clear felled….
the thing is though that its someone elses land, there is a whole separate ethics issue around that, but its up to them what they do with it and if they perceive its being mistreated they are going to close access to it. a lot of the time from what i can tell its down to liability, no surprise that the trails ive seen closed over the last few months have been the ones where people have been building the biggest features on, as well as the ones i have seen the most ambulances parked at the top of. until last summer i had never seen an ambulance at the top of my local trails or paramedics stretchering people out.
The article author looks at mountain biking in a very selective way from what I read. He's picking on what he sees as "less knowledgeable" riders accessing "his environment" and doing it "wrong", basically.
I do wonder how he would fair in other parts of the mountain biking world, which he ignores. Would he be completely embarrassed riding in a major bike park, for example when he waits just above a feature or stops on a blind landing, because that's what he would do on his trails? Or at an indoor park where he doesn't understand the etiquette but feels everyone should get out of his way? It wouldn't be nice for him to run into another version of himself in those environments I reckon.
Looking at some local (online) groups, the issue seems to be that they see every riding location as a bike park and whilst that can cause trouble, I reckon they probably understand the "rules" of bike parks quite well. They are just out of context and - like the article author - apparently pretty clueless when they are trying to ride bikes (the only way they know how) in other locations. I doubt they'd enjoy riding the way that guy wants them too - they'd probably rather pay to access instead.
I saw an Instagram post from an ex-pro with a picture of an absolute quagmire, apparently they got there by normal means, sacked it off and came back to blast along it with their e-bike. Good going, that’s going to help.
Just playing devil's advocate, but what actual harm is there in riding trails which are an "absolute quagmire"?
The slop will just part and then subside again. When we (eventually) get a dry spell, there will likely be no detectable damage.
What is potentially harmful is riding off the trail to avoid the slop, especially ribboning out trails on open hillsides. But walkers are often worse for that anyway.
There are just too many of us doing stuff that wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that there are too many of us.
We need to reduce that number, a cull perhaps. Weed out the reckless idiots in the population.
I’m disturbed by people playing music on the trails as much as the next man, but I’m not sure I’d move to Idaho to get away from it…
I spent a year in Idaho, it's a lovely place with best potatoes known to man. And I include Ireland in that statement.
I don't know, I was running under the assumption that you would be disturbing the deeper stuff and thus churning more of it up rather than letting it settle and thus taking longer to recover. It's a fair point and you may well be right though.
The article author looks at mountain biking in a very selective way from what I read. He’s picking on what he sees as “less knowledgeable” riders accessing “his environment” and doing it “wrong”, basically.
It wouldn’t be nice for him to run into another version of himself in those environments I reckon.
I don't know about that, he makes a very good point:
We are failing.
Failing to educate new riders on etiquette.
Failing to criticize the actions of fellow riders.
Failing to listen when they criticize us.
I've highlighted the last part as that's the most relevant here I think. How often do you see threads on here where somebody calls someone out, legitimately, and rather than accepting challenge it turns into fingers in ears screaming match? Remember when you couldn't say anything about log burners because by jove they are brilliant for the environment, until of course the whole thing about particulates in towns became a hot topic? And how often does someone get utterly torn to shreds by a baying mob because they said something off colour? It's the failure to properly give and accept challenge that is the problem here and I don't think our demographic is wildly different to elsewhere.
Essay points:
I regret that our sport hit the mainstream doing 100 mph and totally unprepared for the havoc that was about to be wrought. That our trails are being flooded by people who don’t understand what it took to get said trails, nor what it takes to keep them, nor do they seem to care.
Maybe they do care but are just too proud, stubborn or arrogant to accept that they may just be in the wrong.
Our trails are being systematically shredded—yes, by skidding endurbros, straightlining shuttle monkeys, and shortsighted stravassholes. And by an industry that “sells” the sport largely by glorifying the above abusers. But also by you, and by me, by remaining complicit in the shadows and not saying “enough.”
All points already made. But I think Burke nailed it better:
Whilst men are linked together, they easily and speedily communicate the alarm of any evil design. They are enabled to fathom it with common counsel, and to oppose it with united strength. Whereas, when they lie dispersed, without concert, order, or discipline, communication is uncertain, counsel difficult, and resistance impracticable. Where men are not acquainted with each other’s principles, nor experienced in each other’s talents, nor at all practised in their mutual habitudes and dispositions by joint efforts in business; no personal confidence, no friendship, no common interest, subsisting among them; it is evidently impossible that they can act a public part with uniformity, perseverance, or efficacy. In a connection, the most inconsiderable man, by adding to the weight of the whole, has his value, and his use; out of it, the greatest talents are wholly unserviceable to the public. No man, who is not inflamed by vain-glory into enthusiasm, can flatter himself that his single, unsupported, desultory, unsystematic endeavours, are of power to defeat the subtle designs and united cabals of ambitious citizens. When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
Now I'm obviously not suggesting that this is literally evil but if you just change that to bad or misguided behaviour then I'm hard pressed to see why the argument is any different.
So how do we challenge? Clearly just heckling from the sidelines isn't going to do anything at the individual level, that just gets peoples backs up, gets them defensive and you've achieved nothing. In many ways we should just give them our knowledge, help them understand how and why and welcome them rather than standing on the sidelines like playground monitors. But at the higher level we need to be calling out the people being sponsored and sponsors that encourage bad behaviours. Rad crew leave trails an utter tip? Call them out. Vandalise a sensitive area for the likes? Call them out. As soon as it starts hitting revenue or such they are quick to change.
“And how often does someone get utterly torn to shreds by a baying mob because they said something off colour? It’s the failure to properly give and accept challenge that is the problem here and I don’t think our demographic is wildly different to elsewhere.”
This isn’t a MTBing problem. This is a problem across the whole of social media (which includes forums). Human brains, culture and etiquette are at best poorly compatible with social media based interaction.
This isn’t a MTBing problem. This is a problem across the whole of social media (which includes forums). Human brains, culture and etiquette are at best poorly compatible with social media based interaction.
Oh I know, I'm not suggesting it's something unique to us. So much nuance gets lost in the text.
I don’t know, I was running under the assumption that you would be disturbing the deeper stuff and thus churning more of it up rather than letting it settle and thus taking longer to recover. It’s a fair point and you may well be right though.
In reality it probably varies, but we all bring our prejudices and respective axes to grind to debates like this. That's not a swipe at you BTW, I'm just as guilty.
My current pet peeve is all the YouTube channels springing up showing off cheeky trails, and being spammed all over MTB groups on FB. Maybe I'm just trying to "gatekeep" trails, but maybe there is value in trail knowledge spreading by word of mouth - so that info like "dont ride this one in the wet" can be included.
Some in the MTB advocacy community get very vexed about unsacntioned trail digging, claiming it compromises their legitimate negotiations, while others have a bugbear about MTB marketing featuring "shredding".
In some cases I think there are achievable goals related to the complaints, but in others it feels more like people trying to turn back the tide.
This thread reminds me of a YT video I saw before Christmas.
I kind of hoped it was a piss-take but I’m not so sure...
“I’m re-branding Lickey Hills as Birmingham bike park.”
Do you own it Dave? No.
In that case, I’m renaming the kerb outside my house as Whistler Bike Park. I don’t own the kerb - but why let that stop me.
“Got some great downhills here! 30 second trails and then an easy push-up to the top”.
30 seconds! 30 seconds! Dave, that’s not a downhill. It might be twice the length of the sex with your other half, but it’s still not a downhill.
In reality it probably varies, but we all bring our prejudices and respective axes to grind to debates like this. That’s not a swipe at you BTW, I’m just as guilty.
Yup, you're right and happy to be set straight.
My current pet peeve is all the YouTube channels springing up showing off cheeky trails, and being spammed all over MTB groups on FB. Maybe I’m just trying to “gatekeep” trails, but maybe there is value in trail knowledge spreading by word of mouth – so that info like “dont ride this one in the wet” can be included.
Yep, Trailforks at least tries to get round that by requiring verification before they will publish anything. There are still things that don't need sharing though, the whole trail etiquette that was build around no dig no ride seems to have long been fobbed off (I've seen the usual "I'm too busy to help" stuff from folk that just expect to rock up to someone else's trails, batter them and sod off again without lifting a finger).
Culturally we could do well to take a leaf from BMX, they don't seem to have the same sense of entitlement that we do and seems far less marketing driven.
This is a very good listen regarding many of these points.
On this episode of the podcast Davi is joined by Sam Bowell. Sam is the manager of Rogate Bike Park and a founding member of the B1KE organisation which is made up of mountain bike sites across the South of England. During this episode we discuss what it takes to be a responsible mountain bike rider and user of outdoor spaces. From public liability, litter, land ownership through to how we interact with other outdoor enthusiasts. We hope this episode acts as a thought provoking episode and a framework for how the mountain bike community can have a positive impact on our environment.