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Long story short my most favourist ever bike, a rigid SS Santa Cruz Highball, was stolen and I've never quite replaced it. It must have been awesome because I had a garage full of bikes and that was the only one taken 🙁
When I replaced it I couldn't find anything similar and I am still stuck in that same boat. Can anyone provide any inspiration for a SS frame on the more XC side of the spectrum? It is a niche list but not the same kind of niche most SS'ers go for!
- Swinging/ sliding dropouts (I've had tensioners, Ebb's, horizontal dropouts and the SC style was a breath of fresh air)
- Boost rear spacing would make life easier but I can compromise as that may be a demand too far!
- 29er, "normal" tyre sizes
- Not more than around £600 ish
- Not weighing an absolute ton
- Available in the UK
- 2 frame mounted bottle cages
- Not fussed on bike packing mounts out of every available bit of frame
- Internal dropper routing is nice but not a deal breaker
- Clean, simple, fast rigid SS fun ultimately!
I'm doing well at fault finding but not on replacing the SS Highball!!! Any inspiration or other ideas very much welcome!
The Pipedream Sirius S5 seems to be the only one that ticks those boxes except for coming in at almost bang on 3kg which is 1kg more than a alu equivalent or nearly 2kg more than a carbon equivalent (if such a thing existed!)
Stanton Sherpa is another contender. It looks tidier than the Pipedream IMO and is supposedly more than a pound lighter.
The Santa Cruz Chameleon would have been the frame to replace my Highball with and should be lighter than the steel frames, but only one bottle in the triangle and the short/ slack ST with the short CS ruled it out for me (fickle but true)
A Pivot LES SS would be right up my street and I could probably excuse the short frames if it were not well and truly out of my price range!!!
Salsa Timberjack is probably the bike on paper which satisfies my lightish SS desires but I just look at the frame and built up bikes and feel so uninspired.
I reckon a Superfly SS would have done nicely but finding one secondhand in reasonable condition would be tough.
Trek Stache?
I was very close to going for that but there seem to be lots of reports of people being very unhappy running them SS with popping/ dropping chains and finding the stays unnecessarily wide
Personally if my highball (built up very similarly to yours!) was nicked I’d probably buy the stache frame in the classifieds.
You’ve covered the major options I think- the chameleon would be top of my shortlist but I have largely the same problems you do.
Another option to consider would be the e brother big bro. Aren’t singular supposed to be doing a new run sometime soon too?
It’s funny, I was looking at the Brother Big Bro frame earlier today and that reignited my lust to properly replace my Highball SS. Not tooooo heavy, not the worst value with the matching fork and I think they look fantastic. It’s got about 52 more bolts than I need and old school solid geo but I think if I compare to the Highball it won’t be that far off. I will mull it over again 🙂
I’ve always been keen for a Singular but not an EBB again
Good shout too to explore the Classifieds. I’m trawling eBay but if I can brave navigating that section of STW there may be some gems fingers crossed
I'm not surprised the Pipedream is a bit heavy but I am surprised it's *that* heavy. I'd have thought it'd be materially lighter than my Moxie.
It's not the same frame but for what it's worth I can tell you that mine is very nicely finished and the dropouts do their job.
My only slight annoyance with it I can think of right now is the lack of a BB drain hole.
Bit more than your stated price range, but: https://swishcycles.co.uk/product/soma-juice/
I've got a 17.5" Gary Fisher Superfly Carbon SS frame and Niner carbon fork which are a crazy light combo. Been hung up in the garage for years... If of any interest, just let me know, but it does pre-date tapered steerers, and Boost spacing (it's 135x10 which was fine for the bolt on DT 240 SS hub I ran on it).
Cheers,
Dave.
Why not another Highball?
I don't know very much about them, but the Sour Bicycles 'Pasta Party' looks nice' although it does have an EBB.
Bit more than your stated price range, but: https://swishcycles.co.uk/product/soma-juice/
/blockquote>When I was last looking for this sort of bike the Soma came out on top. In fact I bought one. Just a shame it had to be cancelled because the shop wanted more than the frame was worth to ship it from the US, and that was before customs. But if they're available here that's what I'd be after.
Get Waltly Titanium in China to build you a custom frame in titanium - should be in the region of $900. You can specify all the tube sizes, frame angles, drop-outs, BB etc. I've had them build me a couple of frames - very easy to deal with. They make frames for a number of 'brands'
Have ridden a rigid Soma SS when I was over in Colorado. Decent bike, but a little agricultural. Don't think they're very expensive bikes there (bit like On One really?)
I posted a very similar thread last Spring. I looked at all/most of the brands that you have mentioned. Had tons of great ideas on here including the Big Bro, which I ended up buying for a variety of reasons. I absolutely love it. It's heavier than my 26er alu frame that I was running with a tensioner, but I don't weigh bikes so I don't know by exactly how much. Also don't bike pack, but it's nice to know I have the right bike if I ever want to 😉 Brother have their new 2021 big bro frames out soon, yellow and I think, forest green or black.
I bought the 10 year anniversary black and gold frame.
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On weight, my current gen Solaris was a whisker under 2.6kg in medium with the rear axle. Sliders must add a bit so I could see the pipedream heading for 3kg.
Custom ti from China (or via someone like spanner.bike?) or the sonder are good shouts.
What size do you need, I've got a medium Highball which could probably do with a new home?
I ride a surly krampus ss and it's just awesome, it won't be as nimble as a carbon sc but so much fun!
Ibis Tranny?
I love mine!
https://swishcycles.co.uk/product/soma-juice/
/blockquote>Like another poster here the only Soma I saw in the wild had me thinking of an On_one. I think they were on ebay in bulk a few years ago for around £300 so all in all there's no way I'd stump up £800 for one. It does fit the bill in a lot of respects though!
I’ve got a 17.5″ Gary Fisher Superfly Carbon SS frame and Niner carbon fork...
That is a kind offer Dave but I'm on Large frames so it will be too small unfortunately.
Why not another Highball?
Santa Cruz stopped making the Highball AL so there is no Highball with swinging dropout any more. I haven't seen anything come up secondhand for ages either 🙁
Sour Bicycles ‘Pasta Party’ looks nice’
It does indeed. Pricey and no easy SS but like it
Get Waltly Titanium in China to build you a custom frame in titanium – should be in the region of $900.
It is an interesting idea but especially in the current UK/ World climate I can't see a custom import being good value or without significant pain 🙁
I bought the 10 year anniversary black and gold frame.
The Big Bro is really appealing and it is great to see the special paint job built up. I am most certainly not a bikepacking hipster either but it is the one grabbing me so far.
I'll have to browse your thread too- thank you for that!
the sonder are good shouts
Do Sonder do an SS-able frame?
What size do you need, I’ve got a medium Highball which could probably do with a new home?
My Highball was a Large with an 80mm stem and still a bit on the short side, so a Medium would be too small 🙁 That and your Whiskey fork if you still had it could have been ideal!
I ride a surly krampus ss and it’s just awesome
Everyone with a Krampus or Karate Monkey seems to love them but the rear axle/ tensioning really puts me off along with the high price and weight. Stock at the moment seems non-existent too 🙁
Ibis Tranny
A modern 29er one in budget would be awesome 🙂 But I don't see it happening sadly
It is an interesting idea but especially in the current UK/ World climate I can’t see a custom import being good value or without significant pain 🙁
Lots of reviews of ChiTi on Spanner.org.uk - I've bought numerous custom frames direct from China - usually 6-12 weeks delivery and rarely got charges duty + VAT - just a big box turned up at my front door. Or buy a Waltly-made Travers Angus II for 2-3x the price.
3 months delivery (if not more with the current unpredictable leads times on parts/ materials/ labour/ etc) plus gambling on Brexit duties, plus slow global shipping currently... the potential stress doesn't interest me one bit I'm afraid. I would rather go down the UK custom steel route if I wanted to spend that kind of money as well I think
Soma are about as similar to On One as Salsa or Pipedream. But yeah that's expensive, was less than half that before shipping when I tried to get one about three years ago. Otherwise the Pipedream looks good, if the sizing works for you.
Spot Brand recently brought out a rather nice carbon singlespeed, but it's about the same price as the Pivot.
Specialized Fuse
Canfield Nimble 9
RSD Middlechild
Is a boring, clean, not too expensive SS frame too much to ask for? 😀
Specialized Fuse
No frames in the UK? If you can find one I am all for it!
Canfield Nimble 9
It is designed around a long fork so with a rigid fork in the STA would be crazy steep. The cost and availability in the UK isn't great either
RSD Middlechild
7lb frame! Not cheap or readily available plus designed around a longer fork. I'm looking more XC than that
Any reason the Stanton Sherpa isn’t making the grade makes the grade but not in the shopping basket? I’m persevering with literal old school 26er SS hardcore hardtails atm out of necessity - yet if was looking at 29ers the Sherpa would seem to tick the boxes. Ideally I'd personally be looking at a next gen SS Orange P7, but that bike didn’t happen yet. So Sherpa would get my dosh, in lovely 853. What’s not to like?
Sonder Broken Road Ti - seems to tick most of your requirements
Can run SS with rear sliding dropouts, 27.5+ or 29er
It’s a quality all round hardtail - highly recommended
I'm have a similar wishlist to you OP and Pipedream Sirius and Stanton Sherpa are the two that stand out to me. Geometry differs but I don't think there's [i]that[/i] much weight difference - was quoted 2.69kg for a Sherpa without dropouts/headset cups when I enquired. I'm not 100% sure they have singlespeed dropouts yet (when I asked they were on the way though). Ideally I'd like something a bit skinnier, but these two still appeal more the few others I've seen out there.
This thread has some nice stuff on the Sirius in geared mode...
I bought the LES. It's amazing. Very pricey though.
Have you considered a Giant XTC?
Sonder Broken Road Ti
Minor detail on being double what I'd ideally like to pay
Any reason the Stanton Sherpa isn’t making the grade makes the grade but not in the shopping basket?
853 is £940! Cheaper Taiwan frames due end of March. I'd need to check the details on the SS dropouts (Boost?) and costs as well as it isn't really clear on the site. Weight would be be another reason to not jump straight on it
DanW
My Highball was a Large with an 80mm stem and still a bit on the short side, so a Medium would be too small 🙁 That and your Whiskey fork if you still had it could have been ideal!
Yeah I did think that. I do have a Fuse which I don't use as well but that's an XL so that won't work either. Although singlespeeding the Fuse with the Whisky fork isn't a terrible idea now I think about it!
Just an FYI ref the Waltly frames, I was speaking to them yesterday and they were quoting a 2 month timescale and they airfreight rather than ship so the delivery aspect only takes about a week.
Have you considered a Giant XTC?
I feel I've considered everything at this point and only find faults 🙂 I don't think Giant do the adjustable dropouts any more but I have been keeping an eye on ebay
http://shop.vassagocycles.com/MooseKnuckle-Frame_p_257.html
More than you want to pay but still fun to look
Have you seen the price?!
Niner EBBs are supposed to be pretty good aren’t they? And the air9 (not the carbon one) looks pretty nice. Otherwise you might be running out of options!
https://flic.kr/p/2kwGkx c" alt="Niner " />
I’m not surprised the Pipedream is a bit heavy but I am surprised it’s *that* heavy. I’d have thought it’d be materially lighter than my Moxie.
I bought a used Pipedream Skookum 853 last week and am running it single speed. I was definitely surprised to find the frame was 2.6kg as assumed 853 would be lighter than that. I can get over it though as it looks and rides great. Gives me the nice old fashioned bike I enjoy the most (71 degree head angle, 100 stem, narrow bars) but with modern benefits of 29" wheels and disc brakes.
Kona Unit?
Steel, sliding dropouts.
I found a Fuse frame secondhand just before Christmas and swapped the bits from my Stache over to it. Both have their strengths, both are fab bikes (well - so far for the Fuse) and both tick your boxes. If you would fit a 17.5" Stache, give me a shout.
Kona Unit?
Steel, sliding dropouts.
Similar hang ups on the Stanton Sherpa and Pipedreams on the weight. My Highball was a hair over 18lbs and I had plans to go a fair bit lower. I only plan to have the one bike and I am a recovering Weightweenie so I know I won't feel at ease with a steel frame at the heavier ends of the spectrum.
Lovely bikes but no frame only option available here either as far as I can see. If it were for a second bike I would be very tempted by the full bike deal.
Niner
Niners are out partly for UK availability and mostly for the EBB. I can't be fannying around with my saddle position to try and match the BB moving around for tensioning/ different ratio setup.
I guess it isn't surprising there aren't any XC SS frames (with swinging/ sliding dropouts just to be even more picky) but I live in hope!
I'm going to go back on my initial hangups and see what Walty have to offer as there doesn't seem to be anything off the shelf
Moon on a stick 🙂
How often do you change ratios that would warrant adjusting the seatpost?
I've had bikes running Phil EBBs, Bushnell EBBs and Problem Solver PF30 EBBs. All great. The Phil's probably heavier than you'd like, but the other two are within a few grams of a nice Hope SS BB.
PF30 EBB would open up a few more options for you.
I found a Fuse frame secondhand just before Christmas and swapped the bits from my Stache over to it. Both have their strengths, both are fab bikes (well – so far for the Fuse) and both tick your boxes. If you would fit a 17.5″ Stache, give me a shout.
Did you run the Stache SS? I'm a bit concerned by the complaints over on MTBR of people running them SS.
How do you find the Fuse by comparison? What are the advantages that made you swap?
How often do you change ratios that would warrant adjusting the seatpost?
I had two wheelsets on my Highball for flatter rides and hillier/ longer rides and I was riding a decent amount, so fairly often. I was also retensioning fairly often as the chain appeared to stretch quite often (good discussion on another thread why SS chain *appear* to stretch compared to a geared skinny chain).
I want a settled bike and don't want to be guessing if I have the saddle in the right place any time I do either of these. If I could live with an EBB then I'd buy another Chiner Niner but been there done that 🙂 I can see how a lot of people could live with an EBB (and I have had one before) but having had the swinging dropouts on the Highball I really wouldn't go back.
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Kona Unit, the sliding dropouts are great. Running this with a 2° angleset now.
Reply from Waltly is currently no custom frames are being made. This has been a slow burn for the past year or so, so I can wait a little longer...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228359227_7be601438d_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228359227_7be601438d_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2jwvtgz ]Niner ss[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152169733@N04/ ]Jonathan Traverse[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228359247_d76b0d227f_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228359247_d76b0d227f_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2jwvtgV ]Niner ss[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152169733@N04/ ]Jonathan Traverse[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50227495478_250be1cc5a_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50227495478_250be1cc5a_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2jwr3vm ]Niner ss[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152169733@N04/ ]Jonathan Traverse[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228138011_9f995eff57_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228138011_9f995eff57_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2jwukvv ]Niner ss[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152169733@N04/ ]Jonathan Traverse[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228359157_2eb197f154_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50228359157_2eb197f154_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2jwvtfn ]Niner ss[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152169733@N04/ ]Jonathan Traverse[/url], on Flickr
My Niner Air RDO carbon, weigh's 8.0kg, thing of beauty, and with niner carbon RDO forks, seatpost and bars, DT240 SS wheelset, not cheap but its a rocket ship
Reply from Waltly is currently no custom frames are being made. This has been a slow burn for the past year or so, so I can wait a little longer…
Don't know if companies with existing accounts can still get small batch stuff done? You'd pay a bit more, but you'd not be doing the design work yourself. This one's pretty...
https://www.singularcycles.com/our-products/pegasus/
My Niner Air RDO carbon, weigh’s 8.0kg, thing of beauty,
Each to his own, eye of the beholder etc,. but doesn't do it for me and I actually prefer the look of the bike I have just put together for £600 although mine is almost 2kg heavier and have to admit I would prefer if it was 8kg given the choice.
I used to run a few singlespeed bikes and got sick of having to mess with getting adjustable dropouts parallel, same with track ends, always put the wheel back slightly skew meaning the disc would rub, also used to have trouble getting the qr nut past some tensioners without having to pull the whole qr out. In the end I decided to tension the chain at the front using a BB mount Blackspire Stinger, also used an iscg mount lower chain guide, both did an excellent job, looked far neater than a rear tensioner, the rear wheel was a joy to remove and replace but most of all it meant I could use any frame not just SS specific.
Not mine but same principle though mine pushed up.
Or this without all the top gubbins
Basically what I'm saying is pick the frame you like the most and make it work, doesn't have to be a dedicated SS one.
A nearly £2000 Ti frame ought to be nice!
If one of the Chinese carbon frame suppliers offered modular dropouts including SS they would be on to a good thing!
Intense Hard Eddie was another I remember looking at before, but I can't remember how they tensioned the chain and more importantly most people seemed to crack theirs!
If anyone is tired of their Pivot LES/ Ti SS and doesn't have an over inflated opinion of it's second hand worth I am all ears 😀
I decided to tension the chain at the front using a BB mount Blackspire Stinger
I've tried this in the past as well and is a massive PITA unless you have ISCG mounts.
Hanger mounted tensioner is definitely bottom of the pile
Odd, as mine was total fit and forget but I guess there's lots of variables at play.
I remember this well; wondering how on earth can there be so few bikes fairly easily available in the UK that fit the XC, SS, not ££££££ criteria, no supply issues with any aspects etc. I just wanted to buy a bike!
Niche was definitely not on my list, but I have ended up with a frame of which there are only 5 in medium in existence, so I have kind of stumbled headlong into niche-ness 😀
Anyway, just in case you want another photo of a bike that is on your list 🙂
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Another alternative is find a secondhand steel frame that you like and get a frame builder to fit your choice of dropouts. I did that many years ago and still love the bike. It has the exclusivity factor albeit you may still run into the problem of steel frames being too heavy on the whole.
For inspiration go on the Radavist site and look at John Watson's Retrotec (definately not within budget!)
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This is my Pivot Les - quite overbuilt with X Fusion McQueens and a 190mm dropper post, but I love it.
Who did you speak to at Waltly, I'be just begun the initial discussions for a new frame and they're as keen as ever?
Did you run the Stache SS? I’m a bit concerned by the complaints over on MTBR of people running them SS.
Never a peep on mine - I saw similar grumbles over there while waiting for the frame to arrive, but the inside of the chainstays on mine are clean after 2,500ish km. I ran 2.3 and 2.4 tyres (Spec GC and Conti Trail King) without problems on 28 spoke wheels I built myself. I wonder if the issues were with especially during or heavy riders on 3" tyres and stock, baggy, wheelsets.
How do you find the Fuse by comparison? What are the advantages that made you swap?
Early days as I'm only a couple of hundred km in, but very similar, albeit with a bit longer reach and more standover.
Advantages? Ability to run a longer dropper (160mm Spec Command Post vs. 150mm Ascend 2) and improved standover for my stumpy legs.
Also I'm a massive, massive tart and it has a lovely brushed raw finish.
I was fairly sure I could have fitted a 160 or 170 Oneup in the Stache, by the way. Happy to provide measurements if useful.
If I end up not selling the Stache, I'll probably build it up as a (more) stupid rigid singlespeed it's huge fun.
Stooge Mk4
Apologies if mentioned above.
Met a guy who had just ridden round Degla (remember trail centres 🤷♂️) on one of these and he couldn’t stop grinning.
This isn't mine and I don't know the seller, but it would make a lovely rigid singlespeed with the Rideworks PF30 EBB (clamps onto the face of the shell so no ovalising worries)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124545845383
I'm not an expert on previous model years by Shand but I'd guess it's a Bahookie, and if it takes 650b+, I'd guess there is a good chance it will take 29" wheels (mine is advertised as taking both but it's probably a 2018ish frame)
Mine is a blast, done 70 miles this week getting absolutely plastered in mud 🙂
That is encouraging on the Stache @bentudder I'll have to give that a proper look over
Stooge
I can see the appeal but I rode an older one and realised it is not my type of thing at all (and EBB).
Shand
Thanks for the heads up. The frame is small and has a wider rear axle spacing??? I'm very lukewarm after the Shand owner had a bit of a flounce on being called out at selling Aliexpress far East carbon at a heavy markup (I'm sure all brands do but the responses left an impression)
I have a Stooge Scrambler on order so will be selling my Large Stache frame in purple and a Chinese Carbon fork shortly....never run SS by me though. Drop me a line if interested. I have a Kona Unit for SS duties...
Just in case anyone was wondering about the Stanton Sherpa SS, it seems that there is still no release date in the near future for the SS dropouts.
The rest is a bit of a brain dump :/
Pipedream Sirius is still on the maybe list with a bit of patience towards the May(ish) release date. I haven't checked what AC height the geometry table is based on but the stack is really low which is a bit odd.
Custom Ti also still a maybe
I looked in to the Pivot LES trying to find a way to excuse the high price but the frames are comparatively short with a high front end. A Medium gives the bar height I'd be after with a 5mm spacer but would have a long stem and the Large would need a -17 80mm stem. A bit odd for a newly released frame.
Spot Rocker is a better fit but not taken by it. Too much money for a gamble on what it might be like in the flesh.
Curtis is one option no-one has mentioned. It would be a fair chunk of money but the advantage is custom geometry, Paragon sliding dropouts and if something isn't right on the design it would only be my fault 🙂 Has anyone bought a Curtis frame recently?
The clear favourite is still the Big Bro and I hesitated before waiting for a more vibrant colour scheme (well Boost dropouts really but lets be honest looks matter 🙂 )... but the green is a grower.
If we take budget a bit more out of the equation are there any other SS frames with sliding/ swinging dropouts that don't weigh a ton and have a chance of turning up in the next few months that haven't been mentioned?
You said you didn’t fancy the timberjack, surely it’s worth revisiting the new model?
Have a look at Hardtail Party on YouTube. He's ridden loads of bikes, might find one you haven't considered. He recently reviewed the Spot Rocker very positively.