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You've mentioned british ranking points a few times. Who is giving these out? Ranking points on a national level for enduro outside of the BEMBA races isn't something i've ever heard of before. Given British Cycling don't recognise enduro as a discipline where are they coming from?
Or maybe your talking about this weekends DH race above rather than last weekends enduro?
The rankings are DH Rankings for British Cycling, not Enduro. As far as i'm aware, yes you're correct, Enduro doesn't do a ranking system outside of each series. In the boys mind, DH is still his priority for this season, the next, the next... He'll race Enduros of course as he enjoys them and they're part of the Privateer sponsorship, but his main focus is DH.
He's currently showing as 11th (very early in season) but his last result at MIJ was worth 28 points which hasn't gone on yet.
You’ve mentioned british ranking points a few times. Who is giving these out? Ranking points on a national level for enduro outside of the BEMBA races isn’t something i’ve ever heard of before. Given British Cycling don’t recognise enduro as a discipline where are they coming from?
If it’s a BC sanctioned DH event then generally there are ranking points available. How many depends if it’s a Cat A race B, etc, etc.
The problem with it is the same as it has always been. It doesn’t actually reflect anything and for the most part is meaningless. The reason is you can pick and choose low attended A races as highlighted above and basically come last in your category yet pick up significantly more points than a stacked field of racers at a B race who would all smoke you.
Unless you are right at the sharp end podiuming nationals and feeding into a World Cup programme it is basically who is prepared to enter the most races and travel the most.
it was the same 15 years ago when I was coming out of juniors and going into seniors. There were riders going straight into Expert which is a non age specific category as a feeder into Elite who were there purely on the number of races they entered.
so do lots of easy races for easy ranking points then brag online about being ranked x in the country. gotcha
Well yes and no..
The kid who won his class last year only did 6 races... all National and won them all. LOL. You'd need to race 4 times a week and win them.
There's no such thing as 'easy' these days... there's easier... sure... but heck, they're all fast, young, old, middle-aged... all fast. I guess some people could theoretcially race like that though, if they were stupid fast.
The bigger races get higher points, so whoever wins this weekend is likely to go straight to #1
There's also not that many smaller races even if you were trying that logic. We are working on it to an extent though, but more through circumstance rahter than anything, we are racing big ones, small ones and medium ones, A race, B races and Nationals. I'll be the first to admit though yes, if he stays fit and races well, it will likely be a higher rank we end up with than his actual place in the UK in terms of outright quickest racers.
manorath-j
Free Member
so do lots of easy races for easy ranking points then brag online about being ranked x in the country. gotcha
Points chasing us been a thing for as long as racing’s been about. In the old points structure 1 point allowed you to enter a World Cup - so you can imagine how that appealed to a certain group of riders even if they got an absolute shoeing and we’re miles off qualifying
it doesn't really play a factor for him until another 2 years when he's then racing in the Juniors (17-18) as that affects whether a rider can go to Elite etc and will allow them to attempt qualification for a World Cup. One of his mates (sort of ) from school took this route last year at Fort William and was offered a place to try and qualify.
He was 6s away from Qualification, which sounds a lot, but was a 5min track.. so only a very small amount away.
(all of this above makes the assumption we're still racing then)
What's the weather like this weekend @weeksy? Not sure you've mentioned it 🤔😉😂 good luck!!!
It's like Corfu. Sort of
Well that's my job done for the weekend. Practice over and packed away. He got 7 runs in and finished up. It's yukky and messy. But the bike has been cleaned and put away ready for tomorrow.
All his kit is trashed as you'd expect. But he's got clean race kit for tomorrow.
Going to be way tougher than some of his other races, but if he can just ride his race and get down, that'll do nicely for now
Today was a bit of a shit show. In more ways than one.
Practice went ok, but the track was horrific with crash after crash from riders. I think the boy had a small off, nothing major.
Runs started a little late, but we're used to that by now.
But then it went from bad to worse.
First rider off crashed on turn 1 and needed medics, so held up for ages.
Riders 2-3 went down but the timing equipment didn't register so needed to re-run.
Then out of 33 in youth, half (maybe more) didn't get times at all to their names with more timing issues.
We think the boy got a time but even by 3.15 we'd not seen any results. Screens were not working and no sheets up for his class.
They got called for run 2, but most didn't go up as conditions were worse and it was just too sketchy.
We were chatting to Scarlett his teammate and she crashed 6 times on run 1.
The boy got down his run without a crash, couple of days, but nothing major.
He was struggling though as felt he was slow and going to have a nightmare. With people like Hatton, Walker, Craik etc you can see why lol. But he got a run down and hopefully put a time in.
We'll see.
I'd have liked to watch people ride that.
Getting down through that is a skill
FFS, there’s really no excuse for that these days. This is also why there should be a backup system running, so that even if the times aren’t being shown live they can at least pull them together shortly after.
Re. conditions - you're racing other people, not the conditions. They're not always what you'd like but c'est la vie.
Kudos for finishing and getting a time
☺️
It’s like Corfu.
Looks a bit muddy for Corfu? 😉
Top effort finishing in that quagmire.
https://instagram.com/stories/rsrbikeworks/3072279738303803548?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
Lol don't forget, it wasn't me! It sounds like people are impressed by me 😂😂
I did wash his bike 7 times this weekend as I couldn't see the colour. The back of the van needs a few hours cleaning, the front equally.
Lucky we're not at FoD on Tues, a photo shoot on Wednesday, then Thurs at coaching. Oh, well, yeah.
This won't be the most exciting, but it'll give a bit of insight into things and what's now needed after a weekend. It may be boring for most so feel free to ignore... but for some setting out it may help.
The clean up begins.
3 x trousers
3 x jackets
2 x jerseys
5 x gloves
2 x goggles
1 x gazebo
2 x chairs
1 x power washer
2 x pair shoes
Things like the Gazebo need cleaning/drying... the chairs too. We don't want to put them all away wet and horrible.
The kit needs cleaning on the work-stand first to get the muddy mess off, then it'll get hand washed and then it'll go in the washing machine to finish it off.
The boy has cleaned his shoes, i've done most of the kit needed. The van will be this afternoon, hoover, wash floors and clean up seats etc... the seats are not too bad as we mostly had clean kit on for them, but the mud gets everyhwere as i'm sure most on here know. It'll all take a while later though that's for sure. But he's off school this week and nothing else to do today 😀
Lessons from the weekend.
1. We need more gloves, 4 pairs isn't enough
2. We need more trousers, 2 pairs isn't enough
3. We need a table, just for putting helmets, gloves, coffee, food etc on.. We have one but i forgot it and it'll be mostly too small.
4. We need a spare front 29er x 20 wheel.
5. We need a 29er full on mud tyre. We only had a Magic Mary in soft compound for the front that was remotely suited to the conditions, the other fronts were arguably not as good.. Maybe something grippier would be nice.
6. AirBNB may be more expensive but i'm pretty sure we got a better nights kip than most of the adults who camped down the road. (However, we're likely to be camping on the 15th lol)
7. Keeping goggle clean can be impossible, even with multiple tear-offs fitted.
The lad struggled a bit over the weekend with "i'm too slow, everyone is fast" and i've still not quite worked out how to get into his head with this stuff and fix him on the day. I know he's quick, but it's all relative of course, he's not as quick as the quick boys in his Cat... but he's far from rubbish lol. I wasn't convinced at one stage he was going to go out for run 1. He was feeling that grumpy with it. But he got down it and certainly didn't look rubbish to me.
One of the things I don't miss is the few days after a wet race weekend when everything needs sorting for the next one.
Royal Racing Storm trousers and jacket were what Abigale used and still does. A quick hose down and they were sorted, kept her dry in all conditions
Well i don't know if he's ecstatic or not.... but that's where we ended.
33 started the weekend... clearly a fair few didn't race due to whatever.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790087321_1660a51468_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790087321_1660a51468_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2oqSZMk ]rheola[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Things like the Gazebo need cleaning/drying
And in case of inclement weather following clean-up, an indoors washing line!* I rigged one up in the garage for after camping trips when the weather wasn't playing ball to dry tents etc, and its since been priceless for drying caravan awnings (and wet biking kit)!
(* you may already have one of these, in which case, please ignore and carry on about your day 😂)
Roll offs not tear offs surely!
Not something we've much thought about until this weekend 🙂🙂🙂
Was this his first properly minging race on a proper track? If so, it’s just great experience to be used next time. Especially when his Dad gets a 3rd set of wheels with full spikes on 😉
Was this his first properly minging race on a proper track?
It was his first race on a national level track really. Some have had tech bits but Rheola is said to be the hardest track he'll ride (maybe fort William)
I think he's ok with it all and we had a weekend of bonding. So I'm good too
proper grim weather... goggles without a lens.
keeps helmet in place, gives some protection from side flung mud, eyes get used to blinking out the filth 🙂
maybe fort William
Ft Bill isn't technically hard, just long and rough. Are you still doing Glencoe? That's a good chunk harder
v7fmp
Full Member
proper grim weather… goggles without a lens.keeps helmet in place, gives some protection from side flung mud, eyes get used to blinking out the filth 🙂
The blister in my eye disagrees with this approach unless there really is no other option
Are you still doing Glencoe?
Yup. Unless something this weekend starts putting him off. But I think we're good
I did use to scoff at those waterproof onesies but having been subject to Morzine rain and mud, I can now see the attraction in grim conditions. It not as though the sponsor details can be seen on the gunked up kit! Maybe also consider a fuller front mudguard and something for the rear when it's really gopping.
On a DH bike. Wash your mouth out with soap 🤣🤣🤣
At the sda this weekend probably a 1/3d of the field had a proper big front mudguard on, including half the elites (essentially the half that race in british april routinely...) It's only daft til it saves a race run.
I think it is your son that needs to wash his mouth out looking at those photos!!
Put a proper RRP Proguard on the front of the bike, at least give him a fighting chance of being able to see. Those tiny little things are literally useless.
Looking back, the amount of sh*tty DH races I did when decent mudguards didn’t exist, they are proper game changers, in fact all my bikes run the bolt on ones all year round now, to the extent that bikes just look weird without them.
However, never put one on the back. Don’t be ‘that’ person 😆
Put a proper RRP Proguard
I'll get a couple of new ones. One of his sponsors can sort. 🙂
A ba decent front mud guard/fender. There are a few good DH ones out there.
One of his sponsors make mudguards. That's their main focus.
Has he got sponsors? Don't think you've mentioned that 😂
👏
quite tech he said 😀
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792426284_d769476233_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792426284_d769476233_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2or5Z5h ]2023-04-04_07-58-22[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792188226_6483499c1d_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792188226_6483499c1d_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2or4LiQ ]2023-04-04_07-58-16[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Lunchtime fun today of stripping the race GT Fury down and replacing any bearings that need doing. I usually go a little excessive and replace in pairs, even if the 2nd of a pair feels OK...
Happily on the rear linkage most were pretty good, but one of the shock mount bearings was a bit stiff so they're replaced.
Then swapped the 10sp cassette to the Hope Pro4, but i may go 7sp on both so i have the spacer and a better chain line for the 25T and set the rear mech to allow only the 7 gears.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52791946817_7664572ed3_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52791946817_7664572ed3_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2or3wxB ]2023-04-04_11-59-34[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Was spinning the bike up and checking the gears and the rear wheel was barely spinning, thought it was caliper alignment, but checked that and looked fine. Took it apart and the muddy slop seems to have killed the 6903 bearings at the weekend. One was a bit dodgy, the other is completely dead, moves about 0.1mm with fingers, just a wobble rather than the ability to rotate... so had to order a couple of those.
With those, the new pivot bearings, a new table for inside the gazebo and 2 new pair of TLD gloves, it's been a busy day on Ebay.
Always a busy day on eBay in the Weeksy household I reckon - you can’t help yourself 🤣
Are they Hope hubs? If so it’s amazing how they keep going even when they’re a right state inside. I noticed last year mine didn’t sound as clicky - opened it up and 2 pawl springs were broken and it was all gummed up. Poorly inner freehub bearing and the hub bearings had seen better days too. Nice and easy to fix unless you have a microspline freehub - the bearing inside it is a right bugger to get at with a daft circlip thing with no holes for pliers.
Nah this one is a random wheel I had, not even sure what it is without checking. The Hope is smooth and nice, but was only recently rebuilt
2 new pair of TLD gloves
"sponsoring" your kid is an exceptional business move
“sponsoring” your kid is an exceptional business move
It's swings and roundabouts. We've had tonnes of stuff, but sometimes you have to put your hand in your pocket
We don't want to be seen as asking for too much or taking the pi55 in terms of requests, so at times we buy stuff ourselves and buy things that align with various sponsors.
Today we were given more products while at FoD for a photoshoot, so we put in a bit, take out a bit. It's just how the real world works.
We had an ace day though, him with Katy and me out with another of the teams parents. The whole setup has given so much more than just free things, for both me and the lad. I've made friends from it too who give me loads at race meetings, meetups etc. He's got new riding mates as well as the coaching etc.
A couple of pairs of gloves don't even touch the sides of what we're getting from the setup
I had a day today booked with the coach. I have been finding that whilst I'm ok as a rider against 'normal' people, I'm not up to the pace of most of my Cat of racers. So wanting to improve, I got my big boys wallet out and booked the day. I had a blast, picked up lots of thoughts and techniques I now need to try to replicate in race in a few weeks time.
The boy jumped in on my session and was great to have him both showing me the correct way to do things, but also to have 1:1 time with the coach to run through ideas and skills. That's his 2nd session with Katy this week and both were laughing lots out there.
Clicked and expected seeing you in the air 😉
Lol the less people who see me ride the better.
Most of the ride I was under strict 60% or maybe a bit more. We were working on body position, techniques and drills, so to make it easier to get them into my head, I had to slow things down.
This was my stuff, but I don't want to encroach on his thread, so was going to leave mine off.
Again, commenting from a distance, but your bike looks way too small for you. You look to be smothering it, rather than riding it.
One of the most interesting aspects was the differences between our thoughts, wants, desires and Katy's version.
We were asking about various races, even races that we'd considered massively important 6 months ago have now moved to "well, if you've nothing better to do"
The reasoning behind this was quite deep and involved but the highlight version was that he'll get more out of a day riding and timing himself at BPW on 50 Shades of Black than he will out of a FoD race for example. Or a Pearce uplift day instead of a Stile Cop race. Even though it's not racing, it's time on longer techier tracks instead.
We also discussed a lot on races, results and performances and again, what we see/saw as priorities were not necessarily hers.
It was a really interesting insight into the difference between our mindset and the coach's. Something we've not really discussed in depth before.
It's certainly changed some of our focus for the coming months that's for sure.
It’s not just Katy. The “ditch the small races, ride longer tracks” approach has come up several times in this thread. TBF though, I’d more attention to her too
It’s not just Katy. The “ditch the small races, ride longer tracks” approach has come up several times in this thread. TBF though, I’d more attention to her too
Absolutely agree yes it did, however times were different 6 months ago and he wasn't the rider then he is now. Add to that, we're not the people now we were then.
It's all a learning curve.
Of course things like racing bring many things to his development too, time between the tape, the pressure of getting the runs right, the pushing hard which you can only replicate in races.
But yeah, the thoughts now are slightly different in terms of priorities and we'll work on that in the coming months.
A lot of the coming months are already laid out in stone anyway and focus on the bigger tracks and races just by default of where we are in the race season. But it's shifted our thoughts away from some other races we'd planned.
14/15/16 Apr is Rheola national DH
23 Apr is Southern Enduro
30 Apr was due to be Stile Cop but that's now canned and it'll either be Pearce or BPW
We're then into the first weekend of may which is straight up to Fort William for the big one.
I'm not really looking any further ahead than these at the moment as it's a pretty big month already.
Just to show I don't always ignore you lot.
New larger mudhugger evo fitted to the race bike.
Correct decision, I always used to wear glasses whilst riding but since putting a proper front mudguard on my bike I can go glasses/goggle free
I'm a heathen, I run a piss flap all year round!
Chill day today so we met some mates at 417 as they were trying a new DH bike they were potentially buying.
The boy was shifting!
About 6 months ago on Dubby Skipper he set a top 10 on Strava and was ecstatic, but 11s off the fastest person ever out on 3500.
Today he went top by 3s and his teammate went P2 lol. Crazy kids.
With Rheola coming up for Nationals this weekend we also tested the spare bike which then broke due to an issue with idler pulley. So that's now sorted and glad we tested it.
He punctured on Igneous though so we've fitted 2 brand new Shorty on both his DH race rears for the weekend.
https://youtube.com/shorts/0L01mLtb7EU?feature=share
https://flic.kr/p/2osbZK6
Re listening to the coach. That's something I learnt to do with my son. The coach doesn't get everything right but she gets a lot more right than we would. One example is when she pushed him up an age group at Scottish champs. Her reasoning was that he was going to be competing up an age group at the next British champs the following year. I was very sceptical as I thought he would be better doing well against people his own age rather than struggling against older kids. He won the competition, she was right and we decided we just had to trust her. Like Katy she was someone who has competed so had been through it all herself.
@weeksy I'm not sure how your summer plans have evolved,but the French DH cup at Les Menuires on August 18th has stepped up a level and is also acting as the European champs. Registration has opened for foreign riders on the FFC website
@ocrider that's Glencoe weekend mate. But heck yes to good ideas like that 😉
I did wonder if it would interrupt any other race plans. Shame that it clashes with a BDS, but there are only so many weekends in June/July August.
New headset bearings installed today as the bike is not being used until Rheola at the weekend now.
New cassette put on as well, well an old cassette. We were having compatibility issues with 7/10 speed hubs, cassettes etc, so I've standardised it at 10sp now instead of 7sp and spacer.
Both bikes now 100% ready to roll for the weekend racing.
Track walk with coach on Friday, practice on Saturday and the seeding and race run on Sunday.
I believe it's also going to be streamed live on YouTube but that remains to be seen.
So basically what we’ve been saying all along… Maybe it’s time to start considering the helpful advice you get here.
Not sure why you think i always ignore it, i've taken much of the advice on here and run with it, however yes, some i've thought not appropriate.
However in this instance you/they wouldn't have necessarily been correct when it was said. Things change, people change, his riding has changed massively and i'm pretty convinced that what is the way it should be now, isn't necessarily how it should have been then.
You also have to factor in age, time, availability etc. For example BPW he's not allowed to ride on his own (although not exactly often enforced) so just shooting to BPW adds an extra £50 onto the day straight away.
But there's also the most important factor in this... he's 14 years old.. What may or may not be best for his development doesn't always mean it's the correct thing in terms of enjoyment, fun, laughs, bonding, teams, friends. When it becomes too much of a chore, it stops being fun and then gets dropped.
But there's been tonnes of advice i've taken, even when you/they think i'd not... "get him an Enduro bike", for example. When people were throwing that at me, we'd already signed with Katys team and the Privateer was already ordered, but i couldn't mention it at the time so i wasn't ignoring it, i just couldn't discuss it.
"go here, ride this, ride that" sure, we've done tonnes of that, admittedly not ALL of that as we've been doing other stuff like coaching with the team, video shoots, photoshoots, team bonding events etc, but even things like "ride Risca", which we've not done yet, but we do have planned as a team ride/event in the near future.
We've been doing uplifts at Pearce race events which is also new terrain and a track he'll be racing..
So, sure, keep it all coming, the ideas, thoughts, advice and wisdom. You may not think it goes in... but it does and whilst i may not always follow it to the letter, it rarely gets completely dismissed.
Oh I don’t know - I think coaching is fun - it’s great to get tips on things you can do better and watch videos of sections and then see how you improve in a short space of time.
@weeksy - how was your session with Katy - did you make some changes and feel like you’ve sped up a bit as a result?
how was your session with Katy – did you make some changes and feel like you’ve sped up a bit as a result?
It was great matey, if a little monsoony at times and that changed the terrain a bit as it went from nice to a mud fest lol
Katy has a way of explaining, showing, teaching that i've not seen in other coaches and you end up like a little puppy dog trying to impress it's master for treats. She sort of brings that out of me more than anyone else. The things i was learning were not completely alien in terms of things i SHOULD know... but until it's pointed out to you, you don't realise fully you've been doing it wrong for a decade.
I don't know if i'm 'faster' but i felt more comfortable and could see how and why it could make me faster using the drills we worked on. I rode again on Friday but i didn't have a gauge to work on and see, it was more an XC type ride with a few trails in there, so i'm not sure. I've not ridden again since then as i wasn't riding with the lad on Sunday..
I sure hope so though 😀
@mark88 i don't see anything i'm going to write changing your mind on any of this, so i won't quote/respond directly other than with, "ok, understand"
Dropped the Privateer into Rotec Cycles today and he dropped everything and jumped on it to sort, was only 15 mins works re-tensioning the spokes, but i do find spokes/wheels a bit of a fine art and a bit wizardy, if i get a loose spoke of course i'll tighten it to get me out of a bind, but when i want it doing fully, it goes to Rotec. He's quick and efficient at doing them. Bought him some beers as a thank you, it wasn't like we needed it urgently, but he is a proper nice fella.
We're racing the 141 the weekend after in Southern Enduro.
So I sat there this evening and thought "should check the purple bike over"
That turned out to be a terrible idea
I bounced it up and down and it had a shock bushing type bit of play in it.
So I checked all the bolts, all tight.
Checked rear wheel and fitted a spare wheel, still play.
Swapped the shock for the marzocchi bomber, still play.
So I noticed the crank had a bit of play and removed them. Still play.
Swapped the two trunnion mount bearings, still play.
Then checked all chainstay and linkage bearings, still play.
Eventually I narrowed it down to these, pivot bearings.
https://flic.kr/p/2osEeb3
To get to them you need to remove the idler pulley setup too. Then weird wedges to allow you to get the main weird pivot bolt out. I then wiggled the bearings and 1 was very wobbly on the inner race.
They were 6003 and I had 2 in spares. Phew.
https://flic.kr/p/2osEe1i
Went in really easily and I even remembered the inner sleeve. Then was just a question of putting it all back together. With 8 bolts, 14 spacers and then the idler pulley to re set-up it was somewhat a troubling hour or two.
Happily, after it all went back together it's now lovely.
Well, it was until my suspension wizard asked which bearings I used and said "nah you want these.
https://www.wychbearings.co.uk/6003-llb-max_enduro_bearing.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwitShBhA6EiwAq3RqAyYLLrn-34ZystxObba2UIWvgLWG1HNzkEPTROqH_MCBwokp_lPXdxoCGaQQAvD_BwE
So early evening next week I'll be doing it all again. Probably. It's only the spare bike, so no real hurry to do that job.
Just a tip to help locate any slack, if you put your finger or thumb across the respective members joined by a bearing, then move the bike to cause the “knock” it’s very easy to feel the movement between the respective parts with your finger tip. Far quicker than trial and error.
Yeah I tried that matey and I was still a bit mmmm maybe it's, then maybe it's.... I'm normally pretty decent but this one deffo had me questioning myself for a while. Because it was that pivot you could sort of feel it everywhere.
I give myself a C for finding
I'll give it a B for the work
Lastly I'll go A for effort.
I even had the boy in there helping and teaching him a bit about pressing in bearings etc. So was a fairly constructive evening.
Mrs Weeksy did give me "you've broken his bike 3 days before race haven't you" which she got a grown face for
Fri schedule states track walk Fri 5pm-7pm.
Sat sees practice from 09.00-14.00 and then seeding runs from then onwards
Sunday is 08.45-13.15 practice for all our Cats with racing from 14.00 onwards.
Slightly different setup-schedule than we're used to i guess in terms of a 'seeding' run on the Sat.. but we'll work it all out. It's going to be an interesting one
@weeksy - I’d just leave the bearings you’ve put in until they need replacing again - the llb max ones suggested won’t feel any nicer / perform differently as such - just last longer. May as well get some in for the spares box for when they need doing again.