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Well, just to start off, if you don't like how the thread went up to now, stop reading as it's not changing. 🙂
Anyways.
Today was another ride on the Aether7. I was running the new higher pressure in the DPX2 of 215psi, with 1 large (Size3) volume spacer installed. I was also running the 2.35 Vigilante front tyre at 24psi.
The trails were around the rooty slightly muddy trails of Greenham Common, nothing massively techie in terms of jumping, but very much in line with the sort of riding my bike usually sees. Sure i have jumpy days, but my 'normal' stuff is more XC than DH. Hence really why i went for the shorter travel Bird rather than the AM 160.
Overall the bike felt great again today, whether that's the pressures, the riders or the shock settings, maybe a bit of all 3, but didn't have a single moment in terms of grip or turning, all good.
Shockwiz said "pressure good, remove a volume spacer, 1 click slower rebound), now arguably i should go to a smaller volume spacer, but i don't have a size 2 or 1 for the DPX2, so i've removed it for now, I may purchase a size 1 for this coming Enduro race next weekend. But it may only be the difference between finishing last or 2nd last in my class, lol. I'm an overweight 50 (nearly) year old and the majority of this weekends racing is for the 13 year old, i'm just along for the ride, but i'm very much looking forward to racing enduro.
I think it’s much easier to ride a bike with consistent suspension settings than retune it for different rides. I can see that Shockwiz can be a useful tool but if it’s telling you to remove spacers on a ride where you haven’t got much air compared to other rides then I think you should ignore it.
Bear in mind that Shockwiz is not going to analyse how the suspension set up changes your dynamic geometry and if you keep changing the settings then it means you’re changing the balance, grip and handling of the bike. You will get more from the bike by being tuned in to how it behaves than from retuning the bike all the time (because MTBs are so light compared to their riders).
You’ll ride faster in a race knowing the shape and balance of the bike in the turns, not by changing your suspension settings again.
Rather than doing what Shockwiz says I’d try to build those correlations yourself so you understand and can feel what it’s saying. Like on the simplest level I know that not using full travel on the shock doesn’t matter if all my air time had smooth transitions, even if I was going large for me.
I am very much trying to 'feel' things myself and until I fitted the dpx2 I thought I was getting there, I was getting better at judging settings, but for whatever reason, this one has thrown me and I was way out with it. Well, in terms of pressure, the rebound I had right enough.
I agree on the settling on something completely.
I agree on the settling on something completely.
The problem with that is if you settle for the XC end of the scale it may get you into trouble when you do stuff at the other end of your range (e.g. bottoming out on a jump, travel packing down etc.).
I'd rather set things up towards the harder end of what I ride and deal with the negatives for the rest of it (which are likely to be less consequential).
I bet those settings will be da bomb at your Welsh enduro.
I bet those settings will be da bomb at your Welsh enduro.
If you think the terrain I'll ride will matter that much, you think I'm very much a better rider than I do. Good settings will be fine, whether I'm at bpw, Swinley, xc or enduro racing. Even if dialled in by a pro I still won't be troubling anything other than last place
So all this shockwiz fannying about is pointless then.
Pisstaking aside thinking that your bike is as good as it can be because an app tells you it is is a bit misguide.
Set it up so it feels good to you and ignore what the app is telling you.
You'll learn what's actually going on with your bike that way and it'll probably help your riding too.
Maybe have a look how to set up via bracketing.
All the app is doing it measuring shock pressures.
It has no idea how the bike is actually sitting/balanced.
Then the important bit.
Stick with what you settle on and ride the ****ing thing. 😉
As an example on todays ride I was all over the shop on the first descent.
I didn't blame the bike or change anything .
What I did was realise that I was just going too slow and on the brakes to much.
Had a word with myself on the next climb and guess what.
The bike felt great on all the rest of the descents we did.
No nobs were turned and the bike was fine.
Stick with what you settle on and ride the **** thing
I do, plenty. Afan last Sat, bpw on Sun, local Tues, Thurs and Fri, then Zwift Sat and out again today.
This might be helpful @weeksy, I’d ditch the Shoxwiz and start making adjustments by feel.
I don't think any amount of zwift will help with bike handling and setup. 😉
Nice sheet, having it all in one place like that. It'd also be nice to have a column on what you're trading off by making that adjustment, and/or how to tell if you've gone too far.
Hey Weeksy - based on the last shockwiz ride - if that was a non tech ride I’d leave the volume spacer in. Particularly if your next ride is going to be an enduro race in Wales and you’re running a lot of sag to start with. Otherwise you might be bottoming out when you hit bigger features going fast.
Good settings will be fine, whether I’m at bpw, Swinley, xc or enduro racing.
Funny, I'm a set it and forget it kinda guy. Except for BPW, where speeds are up, and my settings are tweaked - typically 10% more air pressure in shocks and tyres.
Funny, I’m a set it and forget it kinda guy. Except for BPW, where speeds are up, and my settings are tweaked – typically 10% more air pressure in shocks and tyres.
We'll see how it all feels.. I have no idea how tech this course is on the weekend, i assume it's not insane as it's an Enduro rather than a DH race. We get time to practice the runs on the Sat, so we'll check them out and if needed get a decent idea on what we need to change on both our bikes.
I have no idea how tech this course is on the weekend, i assume it’s not insane as it’s an Enduro rather than a DH race.
If it's the Dyfi Haibike Mini Enduro - steep(ish) and natural I would think. Generally no unavoidable, unrollable features at this level.
Excellent video... Whilst i may still come last, there's a chance i may not die based upon that 🙂
By eck that video doesn't show quite how sketchy some bits are, you're grabbing full on the brakes and sliding down hoping it makes a few of the turns. But mostly it's fine.
It's grassy that's now powdery dust at times with a few flat and pedalling bits but mostly the timed sections are gravity.
I have absolutely no chance of staying with my lad, none at all. But sod it, I'll do my best to survive. I'm actually impressed I didn't crash once lol, I thought I was going to
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After practice today we went for a beer and some very average food but with excellent company from Mrs and Mr dangerbrain, then back to B&B with epic views
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51317600141/ ]2021-07-17_08-24-12[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51318321924/ ]2021-07-17_08-22-38[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
Then we found a lovely place less than 2 mins walk from B&B
Sitting having an ale and it's 20+ degrees
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51318923398/ ]2021-07-18_09-42-39[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
Game face on!
You both seem to be going well!
We're not dead, I'll take that as a win
Danger is 130 in the 30-39 class.
It’s definitely a hot one today. Currently leading vets & I’m done. Couple of laps & I feel like I’ve been in a slow cooker.
Be surprised if I win, as this is the first race I’ve done in nearly two years & i’ve not exactly been training or riding with it in mind 😆
Oh man, you should've said you were there
I didn’t realise anyone else would be there from here - actual riding/racing bikes & all that!
Ended up second, which given I’ve forgotten how to do racing, I’ll take. Definitely left a lot of time out there, but I’ll worry about that another time 🙂
Congratulations!
Snowdon seems to be 14.5% ?
Having ridden 14-17% climbs today, I can't do that for 2 hours !
Ignore, I put in Snowdon thread
Steep and sketchy, yeah, maybe just a bit
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51320257248/ ]2021-07-18_09-41-10[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
Well there I was wondering how a thread about a new frame managed to stretch to 9 pages?! 😁
Keep on riding everyone, and be nice.
Steep and sketchy, yeah, maybe just a bit
I think that's the most ridiculous camera tilt I've ever seen 🙂
I paid an extra £4 for them to make me look good
I paid an extra £4 for them to make me look good
It's a professional photo !? !?
They could at least have surreptitiously replanted the marker pole at a 35 degree angle to make the photos look vaguely believable at a quick glance....
Though dealing with that tree could have been a challenge 🙂
Dunno mate, they're all up on roots and rain, so I guess at least semi pro as we have to pay for them. In their defence I doubt I'm a great model, but they have plenty of time to frame me in shot I guess.
Also bought this one of the boy.
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51321661728/ ]2021-07-19_01-34-33[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
Then got persuaded to enter a southern enduro with him. I should know better at my age!
Event:
Southern Enduro Series #4 – Milland
Date:
2021-09-26
Good stuff. Great to hear about your riding escapades 🙂
The discussion about shocks etc leaves me cold but love hearing you talk about biking with the lad with enthusiasm and pride.
Happy days.
I was going to write a long report about the weekend but got sent to a data center today sadly.
I'm not sure either of us cared about the shocks on our bikes, him because he just rides it and me because I was just hanging on
Looks like he enjoyed it 👍
WEll i guess this deserves a bit of a write up, i've been a bit busy so not had too much time.
It was a long long drive, 4+ hours but we made it up there and got out in practice. The climb up was around 15% for much of it and wasn't nice at all, but was do-able with a few walking bits for the boy, which in honesty i was glad about LOL. But at the top it turned into a lovely peak of fun.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325730863_d69a4f61fb_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325730863_d69a4f61fb_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mctMCc ]2021-07-21_09-47-25[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
The trails were crazy steep at times, loose and powdery. Lots of grassy sections being torn up and lots of tree sections. A couple of bits where you're hanging on and hoping for the best rather than actually riding the bike. Well, for me anyway. Every trail we went down the boy blew me away, which was completely expected of course. But we got down for the 3 runs and despite my worries on a couple of the drop sections within section 3, it actually went OK... None of us crashed and we all went down happy.
Met up with one of the lads for beers and food etc.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51318321924_c30b39db6d_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51318321924_c30b39db6d_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mbPPcS ]2021-07-17_08-22-38[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Onto race day and we got there in plenty of time, transponders fitted for timing and up the hill we go... again... and again... It was showing 29deg and as you'd imagine it was PROPER toasty !!!!
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51318923398_db17fb4897_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51318923398_db17fb4897_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mbSU17 ]2021-07-18_09-42-39[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
The format was 'mash up' so you can ride any segments in any order you want, you need to complete all 3 stages to register a time overall though.
We went 2-1-3 I rode OK and was happy enough with things on stage 2, but felt i could have gone quicker, too much time spent hanging on and on the brakes, trying to pick my way down lines i thought were half impossible. It was right on the borderline of my ability at times this stuff.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51320257248_2138eff604_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51320257248_2138eff604_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mbZJvw ]2021-07-18_09-41-10[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Looking at the times i got stuffed by my lad again of course. He was roughly 20s ahead of me.... But hey, that's OK.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51321661728_183c3d723c_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51321661728_183c3d723c_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mc7W1G ]2021-07-19_01-34-33[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Onto stage 1 which has a techie drop line entry but was slightly more tame than stage 2 .... well, sometimes... Still steep and techie... but shorter. Considering the climbs, the end comes up sooner than you think. It also had a couple of pedally sections which i felt i could have gone harder on. As you'd expect i lost 20s to the small lad once again LOL.
Stage 3 is the biggy, it's the stage used for the Fox and Hounds, where one of the Athertons chases a bunch of people down the hill who set of before them. Steep and tech again but with some flat/pedal bits both in woods and across the rocks/roots. This time i took some of the drop sections a bit harder than practice day and it paid off, i put in a half decent time overall, but 40s down on the boy.
My target though wasn't my lad, it was 1. Don't come last... 2. Beat the other Singletrack forum guy.
Sadly i was 4s ahead on Stage 1 of him, 6s ahead on stage 3, but on stage 2 i was 15s off his pace !!! Wow... Don't know quite how that was.
We spent an hour getting cool in the car along with gallons and gallons of fluid and headed back out.
My lad was doing stage 3, i went for stage 2....
I took 5s off my time and beat the STW guy overall by 2.5s ! Yay me... 😀
My lad crashed and was 9s slower down stage 3.
the fatigue, heat and the day had taken it's toll and we called it a day.
I ended up 32/36 and he was 20/38. Although the gap for me was a lot bigger to the leaders than for him. He was a little disappointed in his result i think, but he was in the 13-16 class and he only reached 13 the week before... So i thought considering that, he did bloody well.
I was in a group of 4-5 riders who on their day could probably beat eachother, but then the gap ahead to the next grouping is 1min... I don't know yet how 1min could be made up... I'd need to improve a tonne.
We're at Katy Curd training tomorrow, but i still think getting a minute off is somewhat optimistic !
Next race is Sept, it's a fully uplifted downhill race, which will please the boy, although with a £70 entry fee, i've not entered this one.
We've then got an other Enduro a little later, which i have entered this time.
Both bikes performed perfectly over the weekend, although my lad did have a little brake fade on the last run, needing a quick bleed before tomorrows course.
Both bikes performed perfectly over the weekend
So what are you replacing the Aether 7 with? Going 29er?
No, far from it. I'm thinking something a bit less LLS
It's not that I'm not getting on with the Aether7, I do like it. Bit by the same account I think something with a shorter TT/reach and a bit less length would be somewhat easier on some of the riding I'm finding myself on lately. The last 2 days out have brought steep switchy tech, maybe I'm misguided but comparing my lads Sworks to mine in overall wheelbase mine is nearly 6" longer. Sure his is a Medium and mine a large. But still, that's a chunk of difference.
I'm not expecting it to transform my riding going to something shorter, but I think it'll potentially make things a little easier?
All that said, I'm certainly not giving the Bird away and if it doesn't sell I won't be too upset. I may sit here tomorrow and think "don't be daft" and pull it. I dunno yet.
Today on the coaching day, Katy turned my bars back quite a bit compared to where I had them. But it's still a long bike and I just wonder if it'd be easier on a shorter wheelbase.
Oh FFS, rubber buccy was taking the piss....
Wasn't he?
Surely you're not going to change the bloody bike again Renton!?
Tell you what. Given you're not so convinced by the LLS, I have the perfect bike for you..... Giant Anthem Advanced 29er. 100mm travel, steep angles, twitchy as ****, fast as hell uphill and on smooth ground. Very responsive. You'll love it. 😉
I can understand what you are saying. Long bikes can be great for giving extra stability and confidence but the flip side is I find they take more effort to lift the front etc. Not very helpful for me as a very mediocre rider when trying to learn new stuff. I very nearly took my hardtail on my session with Katy for that very reason, only the thought of all those FoD roots stopped me
Oh FFS, rubber buccy was taking the piss….
Nope, saw it in the classifieds so checked back here to see if the race had been bad…..it wasn’t so I wondered what Weeksy was thinking
Surely you’re not going to change the bloody bike again Renton!?
Renton didn't ride his bikes, I was racing last weekend, I was at FoD today, Swinley on Sat, mountain view bike park on Monday, I ride and ride plenty.
I don't want a 29er lol or 100mm travel.
What I want, may well be the Bird, but it also may not be. We'll see.
Either way, I'll still be out riding with my lad and my mates.
In order to potentially answer some questions to myself I'm going to do the pressures on my lads Sworks and try it at the weekend. It won't be as tech as some I've been riding, but will give a decent indication of whether it'll make any difference.
I'm not sitting here thinking a different bike will move me from the back of a race to the front of it, I know it's not the bike holding me back. But that doesn't mean a different one wouldn't make sone stuff easier
Wonder if a M/L might work a better for you. I was on a L 120 and Zero AM. Current bike maps more across to a M/L and I find it better under me.
Rich
I bought the ML because I like a fun bike (frame arrived yesterday!) and I think it’ll be just about ok.
For what’s it’s worth, I had a 2015/16 Enduro and hated the thing, so short and high - like you’re perched on top of it, so outdated. I’d ride your boys one for a bit to see how you get on, a large one won’t be much better.
From what I’ve read about you (that you’ve written, not what your detractors have said) I don’t think you’re an LLS rider, so something a bit more traditional might suit you really well. I look forward to seeing what replaces the Aether, and I look forward to seeing what you do with it - I love a fettle on my bikes but my budget doesn’t seem to go as far as yours!
Long bikes can be great for giving extra stability and confidence but the flip side is I find they take more effort to lift the front etc.
Only if the length comes from the rear centre, I think? The L Aether 7 has a front-rear ratio of 1.92, which is quite out-there compared to others. The M Enduro 27.5 is 1.76 out of interest.
From what I’ve read about you (that you’ve written, not what your detractors have said) I don’t think you’re an LLS rider, so something a bit more traditional might suit you really well. I look forward to seeing what replaces the Aether, and I look forward to seeing what you do with it – I love a fettle on my bikes but my budget doesn’t seem to go as far as yours!
I couldn't care less what anyone says who knocks me, especially people who don't see me ride or know me. I justify owning my bikes ten-fold in my opinion. 🙂
My budget hasn't changed much though, i have been exceptionally lucky and fortunate with a few purchases, my G-160 cost me £1000 and was stunning, so if the Aether7 sells then most of the funding comes from getting into the G-160 cheaply. It's not like i'm throwing countless funds at this quest.
As it stands, overnight i got nothing on terms of bites on the Aether7 so maybe i was overly optimistic on pricing, but it's not getting dropped as i'd need a decent price to get another bike of equivalent sort of spec. But i'm honestly OK with that, as i said, it's far from terrible as far as bikes go and in many forms and terms of riding it blows the G-160 out the water. But i am seeming to find myself in 'other' types of riding at times now where as i say, something a bit easier/quicker to turn may be better.
We've got a little segment or 2 that replicates that sort of riding not too far from home, so i'll head over at lunch today with the boy and his bike and have a play on both.
One of the things done yesterday at Katy Curd was rotating the bars back, which once i got home i actually turned a little more (at her advice/guidance) again, which has brought the front end back quite a bit already, so it could easily transpire it's getting 'there' on it's own anyhow.
I'm just a little prone to quick fix decisions and "sod it, lets see what happens" with bikes 🙂
If it doesn't sell and you wanted to shorten what you have there are reach adjust headsets that would knock a bit off the length.
I could arguably knock 5mm off the length with a shorter stem too, i'm currently running a 40mm so could go 35mm.
I'm honestly not as worried as it maybe comes over, in the vast majority of circumstances it's great. Just some of the stuff we're riding lately. If it doesn't sell over the weekend, i certainly won't be losing sleep.
I don't know if you use Facebook, but I've had the best luck selling bikes/bike stuff on FB Marketplace in the last year and a half, I think I've only managed to sell a shockwiz on here - nice chap mind.
I don't do FB mate no, don't have an account.
The fact i've not thrown it on Ebay shows I'm still not quite all in on this decision. It's a tentative listing rather than decisive 🙂
The aether actually has a really short back end (425mm chainstays) to keep it fun and nimble in the corners - maybe you’ve overdone it on the reach. How tall are you? Bird would suggest at 5’9 I went ML but I know I have struggled a bit on the last bike with a 481mm reach so I sized down to a medium. Really playful and just what I was after.
The Aether has a low stack for the reach I reckon - can you get anymore spacers under your stem (not sure if you are running any on top)? Also you could go up to a 150mm fork to shorten the reach if you’re on 140mm now. Airspring for a Yari is cheap.
Running my medium Aether with 150mm fork, 50mm stem with a slight rise (dmr defy) and quite a few spacers under it.
The problem with running a short stem is you have to ride it even more aggressively over the front to get any traction.
As for your racing & making up time - unless you're Richie Rude/Jack Moir, then there is always time left on the tracks. It can be hard to see it sometimes, but it's all the classics of carrying your speed, pedalling a bit harder out of corners & braking harder & later when needed. Coaching will certainly help embed the skillset to do that with more confidence too.
And ultimately, racing more will condition you to that different 'race' mindset - which is a perfect example in my case. The guy who won beat me by 3 seconds & in reality I should have put 15-20 seconds into him, because I know for me to be in the right headspace I need to do a few races to remember what I need to do.
But, that's racing - we all have a 'what if' scenario.
I don’t do FB mate no, don’t have an account.
The fact i’ve not thrown it on Ebay shows I’m still not quite all in on this decision. It’s a tentative listing rather than decisive 🙂
Fair enough. If it wasn't for Marketplace I'd have deleted it a long time ago.
I've got an AM9 in ML and despite all the charts recommending a M/L I do sometimes think I'd have been better on a M - I bought it at the outset of covid while demo's were cancelled, otherwise I'd have tried both. Saying that I could have demo'd them both and preferred them M/L
How tall are you?
Dead on 6'0
My G160 was a 2017 medium, which unless i'm mistaken seemed to be the same reach. Hence why i went with the L.
The Aether has a low stack for the reach I reckon – can you get anymore spacers under your stem (not sure if you are running any on top)? Also you could go up to a 150mm fork to shorten the reach if you’re on 140mm now. Airspring for a Yari is cheap.
Running my medium Aether with 150mm fork, 50mm stem with a slight rise (dmr defy) and quite a few spacers under it.
It's at 150 with a new 150 2021 damper installed as i dropped from 160.
I could add 5mm spacer, i've got one on top of bars and 20mm under them currently.
As for your racing & making up time – unless you’re Richie Rude/Jack Moir, then there is always time left on the tracks. It can be hard to see it sometimes, but it’s all the classics of carrying your speed, pedalling a bit harder out of corners & braking harder & later when needed. Coaching will certainly help embed the skillset to do that with more confidence too.
And ultimately, racing more will condition you to that different ‘race’ mindset – which is a perfect example in my case. The guy who won beat me by 3 seconds & in reality I should have put 15-20 seconds into him, because I know for me to be in the right headspace I need to do a few races to remember what I need to do.
But, that’s racing – we all have a ‘what if’ scenario.
Honestly there's no time to be made up... well, that's the wrong terminolgy, there's no time to be made up that will massively affect my result 😀
From me to 3 guys in front i could make up, but the gap from there to the next bunch ahead is completely massive and will/would require a completely different skillset, mindset and fitness/ability. It's simply not going to happen.
But i'm OK with that, i'm not racing enduro to win, to place or to even care too much, i race it to spend time out with my lad. I can't understand all these parents i see at races who don't ride too, despite when chatting to them they seem to be riders. I just do the races to have laughs with my lad and have my ass whooped by him, then we have the banter in the pub/hotel after and our chats of near death experiences 🙂
I think that at 6ft the medium Enduro will be a bit tight in the cockpit for you, its about 3 inch shorter than the Bird. At 5ft 9 its spot on for me, I don't get on with LLS.
When I got the new Enduro although the bike is longer it only took me one run in Finale to get used to it, however everything else had been set up the same.
Kevin is 6ft and runs a large which feels too long for me although when he rides a medium it doesn't slow him down but looks a bit cramped when climbing.
Let us know how you get on today and take no notice of the negatives. What ever the bike and the set up if it doesn't feel right you will never be 100% happy and at the end of the day that's what its all about
My G160 was a 2017 medium, which unless i’m mistaken seemed to be the same reach. Hence why i went with the L.
Might not be? Unless geometry changed in the subsequent MY.
Had mine for just under 2 months now and really like it. It's the first time I've felt properly in a bike rather than on top of it. You definitely get more out of it by leaning into the front, which in hindsight is what I've wanted to do on previous bikes but frequently sank back for fear of going over. Had a couple of pedal strikes but it's manageable.
I spent a lot of time and demos deliberating between A7/A9 and ML/L (181cm and +11 span). Settled with the A7 because it felt more fun, plus confident in the air, even if not always as fast. The difference between ML and L was much more subtle at first. It wasn't until things got hairy or I got fatigued that the L became much easier to misstep, even with a 32mm stem. Whereas I could dig myself out every time on the ML. It might have been possible to remedy with more changes and practice but I'm happy with the decision.
Learnt that reading experiences and comparing numbers is no substitute for trying. I'd definitely recommend playing with the cockpit more and slinging your leg over an ML frame if you have the chance.
According to geometry geeks the 2017 g160 in medium has exactly the same reach as the ML Aether 7. The Large Aether 7 is 25mm longer reach - so that might be your issue (the Large Aether is longer than the large whyte g160 incidentally).
That’s quite a lot longer to get used to. That said I don’t think you’ve given it enough chance yet - I persevered with my ML Aeris for 3 years before sizing down for the Aether 🤷♂️. I still had an enjoyable time on it and got quicker and quicker and it brought on my riding skills quite a lot. Riding more ‘front aggressive’ which is actually quicker most of the time. Still riding the same on the Aether.
According to geometry geeks the 2017 g160 in medium has exactly the same reach as the ML Aether 7. The Large Aether 7 is 25mm longer reach – so that might be your issue (the Large Aether is longer than the large whyte g160 incidentally).
Maybe my Google Fu failed me then 😀 😀 Weird.
Anyway, with the level of interest i've had in the bike it looks like it'll be staying 😀
All good fun though and interesting to get some ideas and thoughts. Not riding it today despite heading to Southampton Bike Park shortly, but i've got to work so can't really do the riding thing.
Swinley Summit tomorrow though with the bars rotated back a bit. Although there's nothing 'techie' there in that context.
I don’t like long long bikes, although compared to bikes from a decade ago my bikes massive! About 455mm reach and 620mm stack at about 5’11 with long arms and legs.
Here’s a weird observation about fit though - I’d had a 50mm stem on my hardtail but it felt too long. I lengthened the fork which raised the stack and shortened the reach and swapped to a 35mm stem. That felt better but still not right. As I had the 50mm stem still I tried that again. That 15mm longer stem make the bike feel shorter. Yes, WTAF?!!
All I can surmise is the longer stem added stability giving more confidence to shift my weight forwards onto the bars, and in that less rearwards hip position the bars were therefore closer which made the bike feel smaller. Bikes are complicated!
I’m a big advocate of higher bars too - with steep seat angles you don’t need low bars to pedal up steep climbs, and if you’re not a 20something pro then your body is likely to be happier in a less extreme hinge. Weeksy, I’ve noticed you tend to have quite a rounded upper bike in photos on the bike, which suggests you’re not managing to hinge far enough at the hips and thus having to hunch your upper back down to reach the bars. Higher bars will help this, so I’d swap that spacer to see if it improves things.
I've got rid of loads of bikes after finding they weren't to my liking at the time then regretted selling a few too soon.
But that's me wanting to try all sorts of bikes haha. Funnily enough, I'm on an Aether 9 now and it really surprised me how good it actually is.
My shock bushes are wearing prematurely though so I was a bit annoyed about that. I'm 6'2" and got a large based on reach/ top tube of previous bikes.
It felt comfortable instantly for me (previously had an XL Pace RC529 that felt way too big).
I think you're right to have a mess about and see if you can get it to work. There's nothing stopping you from just doing a frame swap down the line I suppose 🙂
If you're pushing out of your comfort zone every so often, it's not about times, it's about feeling more confident and comfortable.
Definitely play around with settings before considering selling and jumping to something else - which also might end up being wrong.
There is something to the LLS thing - I like it more than old SSS - just I’ve dialled it back from the really long for me. The Aether is actually still nearly 64 degree HA with a 150mm fork which is great for stability and I don’t find that’s what dulls bikes down on flow trails. I think too long or suspension kinematics make a bigger difference for me.
I’d stick that spacer below the stem and fiddle a bit more with the roll of your bars. If I remember rightly you’ve already got quite a high rise bar on there anyway - so that probably means rolling makes quite a difference.
I haven’t had the same as ChiefGG with shorter / longer stems but I can certainly see some logic there - it could pull your weight further forward so weighting that front wheel more with less of a conscious effort to do so. Conversely it might slow the steering down maybe 🤷♂️. If you’ve got a spare 50mm stem (you’re bound to in your spares box) it won’t cost anything to try it. Just try one thing at a time otherwise you don’t know what change has made which difference.
If all else fails it might be worth posting on the Bird owners Facebook page - you might find someone who’d be up for a straight swap - either to an ML Aether or a ML AM160 / 145 / 145LT
I've been on an Aeris 145 for about 3 years, and like weeksy is possibly finding, we all know by now that LLS needs a bit different riding technique to more trad geometries. I'm 60, and ride pretty lazy on the bike- I've a buggered knee, and I tend to spend more time sitting than I should, and even when standing I'm not as mobile as i should be. My point is that LLS needs a bit more body english and/or speed to get the bike up and carving, otherwise you're not doing it justice, and it'll not work properly. TBH, the only time I really feel at home on the bike is in the fast steep stuff, preferably on an uplift day. It replaced a Mojo HD, and the difference between the two is immense- the Mojo is for me a better bike in the twisties, but in the Alps, or at BPW, the 145 is more capable, far faster and a lot safer, for me. Again, the Mojo's DW link seems to give a better pedalling platform than the bird. Sadly, the Bird is not much fun where I live, but I have other bikes etc etc.
Weeksy seems to focus on trying to fix the suspension, but I wonder whether the issue is actually him failing to adapt to the geometry (and that's not an insult/criticism, just a fact) for some of us LLS needs more rider input to get the best out of it, and we might just not be up to it, whether through habit, fitness, injury, skills, age etc etc et
You’re totally right - you need to ride more aggressively towards the front of the bike - otherwise it’s either slow to turn in - especially on sharp / slow corners - or I’m faster flatter corners with little to no support the front wheel can wash out when you don’t expect it.
I’m finding the opposite with the cheapy Haro 24” wheel bmx I’ve bought - you merely think about a corner and you’ve twitched round it 🤣
Weeksy seems to focus on trying to fix the suspension, but I wonder whether the issue is actually him failing to adapt to the geometry (and that’s not an insult/criticism, just a fact) for some of us LLS needs more rider input to get the best out of it, and we might just not be up to it, whether through habit, fitness, injury, skills, age etc etc et
I've also as you may have seen had a day with Katy Curd which may hopefully help as there were cornering techniques which may have a benefit regarding the turning side of things too. A lot of that is relating to weight/position/riding the front end.
I'm not really working on the suspension as such i was just trying to dial it in and get it right, i'm really happy with the bouncy side of things now.
I do still find myself at times running wide though, which could be just me riding it wrong (i'm not going to argue) but also a factor of the bike that maybe i will get to adjust to or indeed maybe i won't... I dunno yet.
As we stand, i've not had any interest in the bike on the adverts so the 'selling' side of things is all a moot point currently 🙂
“I do still find myself at times running wide though”
You generally need to lean bikes over more if they’re longer and/or have larger wheels. Push that inside hand down harder, possibly earlier too.
Running wise is probably a symptom of not weighting the front wheel enough. Whether that’s something you can fix or not you won’t find out without riding it some more.
Based on my session with Katy she’ll have you trying to weight the front more / pushing the inside handlebar end down into the corner / outside foot weighted / hips turned into the corner. The he thing I sometimes forget unless I’m consciously thinking about it is the hip twist. Makes a fair amount of difference to me.
I also find on steep tech I have to constantly think elbows bent / get low in the middle of the bike. The temptation is to lean back / get your weight behind the saddle but that makes steep switchbacks really hard. Middle of the bike (but low) makes a massive difference.
A lot of that is relating to weight/position/riding the front end.
That's what a few folks were trying to tell you a few pages back.
Oh well at least you're beginning to understand now.
Stick with the bike you have and concentrate on that.
This might be of use to you too.
you can get headsets that cab adjust reach by a small amount (maybe 0.5-1cm max?)- maybe try one of them initially, if this feels too much longer than you're used to ?
Remember when I was a kid, got my first pushbike, and my dad said, 'don't use the front brake too much, you'll skid and go over the bars". Or I got my first dirt bike, and a friend's brother told me 'don't use your front brake in the mud, you'll crash". And then I wondered why nothing ever stopped well.
This is a bit like that- not riding the bike centred then front works, but it doesn't work well and it's not how the bike is meant to be ridden. If you're not pushing the front wheel you're not riding the bike efficiently- it works, in the same way using a rear brake only works, but it's not working well.
That’s what a few folks were trying to tell you a few pages back.
Oh well at least you’re beginning to understand now.
However, I wasn't previously. I'm not denying there's a technique I need to learn, I've never said that. Not even remotely.
However the point is, this is new and specific to think bike. "Yes that's what LLS brings" yes I get that, bit that doesn't mean I have to like it.
I don't see why I need to change just because the bike is different, if that's the case then I go to a non LLS later I need to change again.
Why not keep things more constant and not have an LLS bike and then there's no changing of "oh you're riding it wrong"
It's not 'wrong' it's just different, not everyone wants or likes different.
P.s. thanks to all. Even the ones I don't seem to be bonding with, it's all interesting, well, to me anyway.
Thing is you're still riding it wrong even on an old school geo bike.
It's just that a more modern bike has shown this up.
By all means go back but that's not helping you progress.
but that’s not helping you progress
I'm trying fella, I'm trying. (No, not in that way. Well, maybe that way too)
I do get your point though
Keep at it and you'll get the lightbulbs moment soon enough.
Going back to hanging of the back isn't the answer to anything.
Lol where did I once say I was doing that? You're making things up without ever even seeing me ride
I've never once said I don't need to or cannot improve my technique, never
Best of luck dude.
Only advice I could give now is stop taking offence so easily
Seems you've gone back to thinking people are trying to insult you.
Well let's be honest fella you're not exactly being nice.
Most are, you're not.
If you can't see that, I think that says more about you than it does me.
It'd be nice if you don't post any more in the thread as I'm honestly really tired of it