[Closed] In Praise of....... Hope Pro II Hubs

i agree. if you get a stainless steel freehub body they are pretty much perfect

Horses for courses, happy for you to be happy with your choice.

So it has a freehub that's been chewed to bits, then fell off, and also part of the freewheel mechanism was broken. But it'll be easy to fix the faults, apart from the one that'll be expensive to fix. And that's a result?

no need to replace the freehub body generally - just dress it with a file.

Hi Northwind,

It's a result in a way, yes. I've had Shimano hubs work loose during a ride in the Peaks (they were fine only a couple of weeks before). A bit of Peak grit got in and did its thing. On taking the hub apart I found shards of swarf and some very odd-shaped bearings. The hub was a write-off.

At least I can bodge this for the weekend. Get a new freehub next week and sort it properly at my leisure.

Not an ideal world, but better than time off the bike.

I wasn't too happy with my hope pro II's. I prefer more fit and forget, less faf.
They have performed well in most races I've done, but I've tried a mated chris kings a few times and much preferred them. Granted they cost more but they seem worth it.

TJ is right - I've hammered the cassette off my hubs a dozen times and each time it goes back on and does another few thousand miles.

I must say though that I've never had a single issue with them. Zero faff. Not even changed bearings.

+1

although the springs can be a little fragile

Aye, mine (and my DT Swisses) all look like a big metal dog's gnawed on them. Had to replace one though as it was so worn, the cassette was twisting around, but it came to me used. Built another one back up with JB Weld as it was becoming really annoying.

DT 240s are, IMO, better in almost every way than Pro 2s, no contest. Only criticisms are the need for a special tool for the full (infrequent) service, and the much higher price. So til I can afford more of those I'll be using some Pro 2s as well 😉

Best hubs I've used. Cup and cones are a ****ing ball ache, constantly taking them apart.

No need to file shimano freehubs.

There is a need to maintain them properly tho, HS I suspect you may be lacking there, no offence, mine are not like that.

The main problem with Shimano hubs is that the cones can work loose DURING a ride. I know that the real art is tightening them 'back' onto the locknuts without upsetting the adjustment, but this is a ball-ache, and if they do work loose, it can happen anywhere.

As I said, the fact that this happened to me in the Dark Peak meant that the world's best grinding paste got to work and that, as they say, was that. Hubs bollocksed and a complete rebuild of the wheel the only option.

I did have a slight bit of sticking the first time i removed the cassette from my Pro II. A wee clean up with a file and the freehub was fine.

I then replaced the steel cassette with a PG 990 which really it should have had from the start. The alloy freehub is supposed to be used with a alloy spidered cassette.

stucol - Member

The alloy freehub is supposed to be used with a alloy spidered cassette.

Which does nowt to stop the smaller cogs digging in.

Yeah but there's nowhere near the same torque going through those ones (unless you're using silly gears like small to small).

Sure, but it's still more than enough to tear up the hub.

Actually, my most mangled freehub had been used with a standard cassette on it, but the wear was pretty uniform, not sure how that works really. Maybe it's the loading and unloading rather than the pressure, or something.

Love their hubs, it's the spokes I keep having an issue with:

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

🙁

I've never seen spokes break there - always at an end. What are you doing to them?

ben hope will rebuild

i had exactly the same issue - and being a mechanic for 10 years i have NEVER seen a spoke break there (Including some superlight stuff and even ultra light road wheels on crossbikes.....
)- let alone the 5 or 6 i had go at 10 under the ben in one ride !
get in touch with where you got them from- you will end up chasing those all the way round the wheel till you have replaced them all !

why i like hope - no bull shit , a problem you have is a problem they have and have always strived to resolve my issue - even with my at the time 8 year old big un that sheared disk tabs or when i contacted them about getting a new hub body for my mono that aftr just short of 15 years service sheared the spoke flange they were all up for giving me a new set of pro-3s but i said in the end i had just replaced the wheels with mavic equipes and that after nearly 15 years i was happy with the service they had given me !

my wheels did develop this sapim spoke issue and i dont think its fair to blame hope - its a spoke issue not a build issue imho

so when i needed new brakes i went hope and have been happy 😀

I think the OP's point is that the Pro 2 is a lot easier to work on than he was expecting. They are very simple and any issues are well documented and easily sorted.
The pawl springs are cheap, small and light. You could carry a set in your wallet if you were really concerned. You take your pick with the freehub material, light aluminium or heavier steel. If you go for the aluminium match it with a cassette that has as much aluminium spider as possible. An XT 11-34 has 6 gears on the spider but an XT 11-32 only has 5 on the spider. The choice is yours and as others have said you just dress the splines with a file when required. It's exactly the same with a clutch basket on the vast majority of motorcycles.

dannyh - Member
The main problem with Shimano hubs is that the cones can work loose DURING a ride.

Sorry, I've seen that happen once, it's extremely rare or user error.

I changed to Hope ProII's after having issues with my Chris King. I found that the king was far from fit and forget. The little lockring kept working loose and it's a pain to get the pre-load right. I cleaned mine regularly and used the proper grease but you can't do a full service without the right tools and the freehub started sticking. I gave up and went ProII and haven't looked at it in around 2 years.

I've got XT hubs too on another bike and find them a pain. Every now and then you need to tighten the cones and it seems to get worse once they're older. Also the freehub is a sealed unit so you can't get in to clean / service like you can with the hope and if it fails on the trail you're stuck.

The chewing into the cassette body is a pain. I had exactly the same with my Chris King and my Hope. It's not due to the cassette, I've only used high end cassettes. Never try to lever the cassette off though because you end up with the freehub comming off as above. I did a wee vid last time I took mine off, it's really easy this way.

[url= http://www.basquemtb.com/mountain-bike-maintenance-removing-a-stuck-cassette-hope-pro-2-chris-king-hub/ ]Removing a stuck cassette from a freehub[/url]

cynic-al I do love the way anything goes wrong with shimano hubs its always user error 🙂 Maybe if they didn't require such frequent or fiddly maintenance? Or perhpas its just a poor system 🙂

Once a cup- and cone starts to wear ie has become loose once it will never be 100% again as the hardened surfaces have failed

Shimano hubs certainly aren't perfect but they are relatively cheap and cheap to fix. balls are cheaper than cartridge bearings every time.
My XT freehub finally needs attention after 6years on three different bikes ridden at least 2x a week in the same Dark Peak grinding paste.
In that time the bearings have been removed and greased once but are still fine though I will replace them just in case.

TandemJeremy - Member
cynic-al I do love the way anything goes wrong with shimano hubs its always user error Maybe if they didn't require such frequent or fiddly maintenance? Or perhpas its just a poor system

Once a cup- and cone starts to wear ie has become loose once it will never be 100% again as the hardened surfaces have failed

I accept they're not perfect, but if a hub comes loose mid-ride after a service, sorry, that [u]IS[/u] user error. If a hub gets pitted, that [u]IS[/u] insufficient servicing.

I've always said they need servicing, the frequency of which depends on the use. A shimano hub is unlikely to fit with a cartridge bearing user.

"Fiddly maintenance"? Many, like me, find it fine - how could it be less fiddly? It's the same as any other C+C hub?

By "failed" what do you mean?

All with 🙂

Oh and Doug, you can get a tool to flush grease through a freehub body.

I think the OP's point is that the Pro 2 is a lot easier to work on than he was expecting

Oh yeah, they certainly come to bits and go back together easily, but you should open up a DT Swiss 240 if you want to see real simplicity. The ratchet has literally half the amount of parts that a Pro 2 does - 4

🙂

I didn't know that Al. I've always just put them in a bag of oil to see if I can get them working again! You've got to admit it's not as easy as the Hopes. If they fail on the trail I've opened them up and sorted them. I even saw someone who'd got his going using bits cut from zipties.

I've never seen spokes break there - always at an end. What are you doing to them?

Not doing anything, other than riding on them. Just like Trail Rat I had a load go on the rear wheel which needed to be rebuilt. Hope were really good though and sent me replacements out for the rear.

Now happening to the front wheel too. The problem is I'm in Singapore and can't get spares so reliant on Hope in the UK again. Annoying, I want to ride it!

i agree with the OP. hope hubs are fantastic.
i managed to change the bearings in a front hub using a hammer, drift, block of wood, a socket and a forktruck.
hope, being a british company realises that the british cyclist, in general is a bafoon.
so they make all their gear bafoon proof, and home/work servicable.

😀
long live british workmanship.

Yeah but there's nowhere near the same torque going through those ones

Maybe half or a third the torque, but it's distributed over a fraction of the area. It's the small ones that give me grief always.

Many, like me, find it fine - how could it be less fiddly? It's the same as any other C+C hub?

Exactly, that's why Hope, being a cartridge bearing system, are simpler and adjustment free and hence less fiddly.

I have only ever had freehub failures on Shimano. Two were many many years ago when I was running low end stuff - the freehubs just stopped hooking up leaving me with a walk home. However on a CRC Marathon at Builth year before last I found myself in the wrong gear so heaved on the pedals hard to get up a slope, and found myself unable to ride. On inspection the freehub had jammed solid - my awesome power had mashed the internals.

When I got it home and replaced it (at high cost!) I discovered that I'd actually ovalised it! And I'm not exactly a big bloke.

"Fiddly maintenance"? Many, like me, find it fine - how could it be less fiddly? It's the same as any other C+C hub?

I can do a C&C hub service in the same time or slightly less than replacing 5 cartride bearings in a Pro 2. And it's 1/20th of the price too

I'm not anti Hope, but I've worked out that they are not the be all and end all of hubs like most of STW seems to think. They are not as reliable as the older XC hubs, for sure. I would take Deore over Pro 2 for sure. No less faff, 1/5th of the price to buy and 1/20th of the price to service.
That said, I'm currently switching my main MTB to DT Swiss. We shall see how they fare.....

ProII for me every time - just had mine apart - had to replace 1 leaf spring, re-greased bearings that were in good condition from the last time I had them apart.

£2.75 + some grease for new-feeling hubs. Oh and they look better IMO than big S, are UK made. I would rather replace after something is worn than have to constantly have it apart to service it all the time...

the be all and end all of hubs like most of STW seems to think

Umm we just think they are robust, light and reasonably priced. Not unreasonable is it?

As for servicing - I have had a number of Hope hubs since 1996 and changed bearings twice. Shimano have caused me more grief, and cost me more despite me having ridden far fewer miles on them - see above.

Umm we just think they are robust, light and reasonably priced. Not unreasonable is it?

No it's not. I just don't agree, for Pro2s anyway, which I think are a compromised design that sacrifices reliability.
I litereally got shot of mine* and went looking for old XCs which I paid £60 or less for, and haven't had to touch. Given a money no object choice, I'd pick Royce. But they aren't trendy or available in umpteen colours, are they?

*failure list
Snapped hub flange on Mrs PPs lightly used Kona
More than one snapped pawl spring
Only on set of bearings lasting over a year out of 5 hubs, one set of fronts did about 10 rides....
The retaining flange for the adaptor circlip on a front P2 breaking off, so the adaptor falls off every time I take the wheel out

Yeah, Hope send me free bits when I get a failure, the warranty is great, I just get sick and tired of using it.

And look at the OP - he's singing the praises of P2s when the damned thing has broken pawl springs and a stuck on cassette!!!! WTF is all that about????

PP - Have you still got the hubs the bearings failed early on? I would be very interested in measuring them up to see if its a manufacturing tolerance issue.

Your experiences are so different to many there must be some cause. I don't think I have changed the front pro 2 bearings and only some of therear. No probalems with pawls and springs either

only ever had two hub failures.
both were shimano deore hubs, both with seized axles.
swings and roundabouts.

TJ, yep, one front on my Pitch (the one with the broken circlip flange) and one rear on Mrs PPs Kona, now on its 4th set of bearings. Her front is virtually new after the hub flange broke.

The Pitch now has a Hope XC on the rear which was new old stock 2.5 years ago. It doesn't get much use but when it does it's trail centres, Dales, Alps etc. that's been faultless

My 456 now has a DT Swiss 15mm front hub which is a year old and untouched and another Hope XC rear which I bought used, regreased, and has been fine for nearly 1.5 years. That's being replaced with a matching DT Swiss 240 this week though, which I got used for £70

Our commuters and shared SS have mostly cheap unbranded or Shimano 475 C&C hubs which I always regrease from new and then once a year. All are OK.

Oh, I've got a 1993 Explosif at the sprayers right now too. Ive got some 90s Goldtec hubs on Mavic 618 ceramics to go on that... 🙂

No issues with the ProII here. I had real problems with the old Hope XC hubs, I kept snapping axels on them. It must have happened 3 or 4 times. No such issues with the ProII, not changed anything or touched anything since I bought them. I snap spokes quite often but that's my fault!

next time you change bearings get them measured up - I bet they are slightly too tight causing the bearing tolerance to close up

I love my Hopes - all of my three bikes have ProII hubs aside from the one bike that has a Bulb up front.

They're clicky, shiny, blue and for the most part have required no maintenence beyond occasional greasing. The Bulb could do with new bearings, but that is probably because I installed the old ones and ronnied them by using an inverted socket and not the proper tool.

The rear Bulb kept breaking 12mm axles, so Hope offered me a Pro2 Evo at ridiculously cheap price. Ker-ching.

and i thought hex bolts and allen bolts were the same thing.

TJ, Can I do that myself with my digital calipers?

both were shimano deore hubs, both with seized axles

Seized axle? What seized?

I admit that THE BEST way to keep C&C hubs running a long time is to grease and adjust from new. I've posted a thread about that before now.... Shimano do skimp on grease. 🙂

the axels wouldnot spin in the hub, bearings were rusted probably through bad servicing.
i service my hopes just as badly (never) yet they just keep on spinning away. 😀

should be able to PP - at least get a decent idea.

I love my Pro2's. Bought the hubs brand new for £90 off ebay. Built to 317 mavic with db dtswiss. I think ive trued the rear once and they just work faultlessly. Apart from having to hammer the old steel cassette off to fit a 990. I love the noise too.

Recently took my cassette (pg990) off & removed the freehub for a clean up.

No real gouging and everything looks in good nick.

Wheels are 2 years old.

I admit I like the whole Hope ethos. And they support us at Singletraction with a trailbuilders discount. Surely in these times of a lack of British manufacturing they are to be applauded an supported.

Oh, as guymk2 says, forgot about the most important bit, the noise. Oh and the opportunity to buy a shiny red cassette 🙂

Ti freehub Bulb FTW

Last year, I spent 10 months as a mechanic iN a spesh dealer. Spesh use DT swiss hubs in their higher end ranges and I've spent a fair bit of time working on them, my own hopes and shimano.

DT run very nicely but aren't that well sealed and use a very small carrier bearing in the freehub body. They suffer for dirt/water ingress in good old blightys winter as much as any other hub (including hope), but the pawl system is less tolerant of gunk and binds and wears sooner. DT swiss only parts in the hub are really quite expensive, and whilst not overly fiddly are harder for the DIY mechanic to work on. I won't use them on that basis.

I'd think twice before buying DT swiss to run all year round. They will take a big chunk out of your wallet further down the line.

Shimano is standard cup and cone - Peters comments apply.

Hope, IMO are somewhere in between cost and reliability wise, but are easier to work on and easier to source cheapish bits for. I grease the bearings in my hopes at the beginning and end of the winter and get 2-5 years from the bearings. Acceptable IMO.

Royce are surprisingly heavy, but utterly beautiful!

TandemJeremy - Member
PP - Have you still got the hubs the bearings failed early on? I would be very interested in measuring them up to see if its a manufacturing tolerance issue.

caused by hope...

PeterPoddy - Member
Sh[imano do skimp on grease

So do Hope's suppliers...and pretty much everyone bar the master conspiracy theorist Kaesae.

@ ton

I quite like the sarcasm in your reply - amusing. However, when you say that Hope hubs are 'Bafoon-proof', I think you might mean 'Buffoon-proof'.

If only this forum was Buffoon-Proof, you wouldn't have made such an elementary spelling error. 😆

Still, never mind.

In keeping with the idea of Buffoonery (I am pretty certain that is a word), I admit my error when talking of hex bolts vs allen heads. I meant torx rather than hex.

And there was me pulling people up on spelling - foiled again.

Still, if we all keep correcting each other so assiduously we will all be perfect in no time!

danny, no sarcasm was meant. just saying i like em cos if a numpty like me can service them, anyone can.

DT swiss only parts in the hub are really quite expensive, and whilst not overly fiddly are harder for the DIY mechanic to work on. I won't use them on that basis.

Well, I know you need a tool to get one of the centre bearings out, but apparently that's rarely needed. Otherwise, being a competent DIY mechanic, I can see very little difference between Hope and DT in terms of ease of servicing

Interestingly, you are the first person I've seen saying that about DT hubs. And I did a fair amount of research before I bought mine (one free with fork, the other used for £70 admittedly)
The sealing is only as good as the seals on the bearings, surely? And all cartride hubs are the same in that respect.

So do Hope's suppliers...and pretty much everyone bar the master conspiracy theorist Kaesae.

Who's bearings now reside in Mrs PPs rear Pro 2.....

Hi ton,

Whoops, I think my prickly side got the better of me there......

If you read my original post you will see that this all started off as a tyre-swap that rapidly spiralled into a semi hub service. Only a numpty like me could have ridden last Saturday thinking "what's that funny tinkling noise coming from the rear wheel every so often?"

I think I deserved all of this - but the simplicity of the hub rescued a situation that could have lead to meltdown.

It was one of those series of 'discoveries' that meant a whole evening degreasing, cleaning, swearing and generally getting the kitchen oily.

I'm glad to hear other people regard themselves as numpties when it comes to bike servicing - I always get a little bit of fear whenever I approach my beloved bike with any kind of spanner or implement.

Peter P I think The other person was on about DT Onyx and the 370 hubs which works in a totally different way to the 240 and 340 which use the star drive way of freehub engagement patented by Hugi back in the day. Which DT bought them out and use on there top end hub,

The lower end (Onyx 370) DT hubs have two cartridge bearings and a roller needle bearing in the freehub and two standard pawls.

The only problem I had with the DT 240 hubs was that you need a special tool to get the other part of star drive ratchet out of the hub body in order to remove and install the drive side hub bearing. That tool looks like a cassette lock ring tool but instead of costing a fiver cost 50 quid! Which is a total rip off.

I like Hope XC hubs they have never gave me any problems at all. The only thing I don't like about them is there heavy and also have a lot of drag.

Pro2 are ok but if you run standard quick release like me, then you are having to compromise on having smaller bearings, in order for them to fit 20mm and 15mm front axles and bolt through rears etc.

I'm thinking about going over to some Shimano XT hubs the new M785 ones with the alloy axle. But the last set of those I had lasted a few road rides and the freehub seized up. I was loaded up with a light pannier bag aroud 15 KG though. I was hoping they had improved them as that was over two years ago when they first came out. Anyone else used them?

I might even try using the DMR revolvers on the new wheel build. I had those a few years back on a 29er and even single speeded them and they were good.

The lower end (Onyx 370) DT hubs have two cartridge bearings and a roller needle bearing in the freehub and two standard pawls

You are correct. I also have an Onyx (I got that cheap too....) and it's a bit sparse on bearings inside. Makes a lovely commute/tour hub though and it's a piece of cake to service.
Otherwise, yes, I see your point.

The only problem I had with the DT 240 hubs was that you need a special tool to get the other part of star drive ratchet out of the hub body in order to remove and install the drive side hub bearing. That tool looks like a cassette lock ring tool but instead of costing a fiver cost 50 quid! Which is a total rip off.

I like Hope XC hubs they have never gave me any problems at all. The only thing I don't like about them is there heavy and also have a lot of drag.

Pro2 ......... compromise on having smaller bearings, in order for them to fit 20mm and 15mm front axles and bolt through rears etc.

XC bearing on the left. Pro 2 on the right. Which is going to last longer, hmmm?

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7049/6846967783_4bc4ef31ae_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7049/6846967783_4bc4ef31ae_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/6846967783/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

I have also heard people say the XC Hope hub is not as stiff in the fork with standard dropouts. I have noticed that a bit to be honest. The Pro uses thicker axles even with the adapters for QR so I guess the axles will snap less on them. As for the drag I have had maybe 8 sets of Hope XC wheel builds over the years and I did notice they don't roll/spin as good as some hubs I have had. There the best hubs I have owned though without a doubt. I also liked the Mavic crosride wheels. Found that model Mavic hubs pretty good.

I have a nice st of Hope XC hubs in blue on some 717 disc rims if anyone is interested email me.

I would be keeping these but I fancy something a little wider on the rim side. So time to go for a new set.

That's it. That's the compromise. Nail. On. Head.
The compromise that nobody seems to understand, or just ignores when I make the point.

No need to get smart-arsey about it. I bought Pro2 based on cost vs weight, and the bearings have lasted 5 years and are still going. I can't see that as anything other than a successful purchase.

Re drag - as I understand it, all cartridge bearing hubs drag more than cup and cone, which is why Shimano use cup and cone, and they are apparently popular with XC racers for that reason. My XTR do spin for much longer than my Hope although I'm sceptical that this would make any difference on an XC race. My Saris Powertap road wheelset also spins extremely well and that's cartridge bearing, so go figure 🙂

Just an adjunct to the thread.

Reassembled slightly crocked hub. Ride on Saturday saved. No further issues or mechanicals.

New freehub arrived Friday. Installed last night.

Yes, it's cost me a few quid for a part failure, but I didn't lose any riding time, and with my other commitments, that is a price worth paying.

I also managed to contrive a use for my £5.99 bench vice from Aldi that I bought at the weekend too as I disassembled the old freehub for spares. Sad, but true!

P.S. Aldi are also doing a knock-down hook and pick set - happy days!

I don't agree that the 370/Onyx hubs are hard to maintain. I can turn a knackered, seized, rust filled mess of a 370 into a working one with £15 of parts and one hour of work.

DT Swiss freehubs are expensive but there's no need to replace the freehub body unless it's deeply scored by the cassette. The needle cage costs [url= http://www.petracycles.co.uk/needle-cage-complete-rear-onyx-p-10310.html ]£3.76[/url], the pawls are [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28828 ]£4.99[/url] and the bearings are whatever you want to pay for them from eBay shops.

The single bearing in a 370 freehub knocks out really easily (with a socket and an old cassette for support) after removing the circlip. This is so much simpler than trying to get those double bearings out of Hope freehubs. The Hope XC freehub has the inner one held by a circlip, making the outer one a pig to remove as you cant just shove one out against the other.

The pawls aren't in the direct line of muck if the seal fails, as they are with Hopes, but are inside the freehub body. A mighty amount of grease in there and they don't get rusty, seize or make any noise.