[Closed] I'm not a troll but...the bloke on an E-bike at degla today....

I'd imagine degla on a Sunday with the sun out would be empty too.

The whole ebike thing sums up the modern UK. No one wants to wait for anything when they can have it now.
Why wait to cook a meal when you can microwave it.
Why wait to learn when you can Google it.
Why wait to get fit when you can buy an ebike.

Every one wants the instant gratification and then to pat themselves on the back when they think they have achieved something

[quote=tjagain ]Not really the same aracer is it?

You're going to have to explain the difference to me...

Fair enough but please up your game, we expect amusing trolls not tired old prejudices. 😉

big yim -
Dez b, how's he ever going to ride hard trails on a normal bike if all he is going to ride is an ebike? Serious question.
How will he ever get fitter if he's not doing exercise?

Serious answer, although it is a pretty silly question. I finished the ride breathing heavily, sweating (and smiling, though obviously enjoyment is not relevant to proceedings, m'lud). It was definitely exercise, especially on the E-DHBike! They were demo bikes. My son has a very nice normal bike that he rides to school every single day. He does loads of bleedin exerise, but we were having some fun tagevva. It was great.

aracer - Member

tjagain » Not really the same aracer is it?

You're going to have to explain the difference to me...

Really? Plenty of room to pass, not vans, relative speeds and weights similar and clearly there ws room to pass if the rider in front co operated

Surely taking a segway to a fun run is the same as using an ebike ?

EAPC requirements

The requirements are:

-the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
-the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
-the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 250 watts

It must also display one item from each of the following:

the power output or manufacturer of the motor
the battery’s voltage or maximum speed of the bike

No I've never ridden one before but there's nothing to say that the bike cannot be propelled without having to turn the cranks.
Pedals must be fitted, yes, "pedals can be used to propel it", appears to be an option. Why is the word "must" instead of "can" not used?
Too ambiguous.

[i]Surely taking a segway to a fun run is the same as using an ebike ?

[/i]

Dunno, those Segways look shit.

The big clue may be in the name though. Electric assisted pedal cycles.

That in itself implies the motor is used to assist and not power by itself.

Was on a jump course with a septagenarian e-biker today. He was psyk to the powa of schralp. Seriously. Seriously, seriously.

[i]there's nothing to say that the bike cannot be propelled without having to turn the cranks.[/i]

The one I rode could: I used my body weight on the singletrack (with the electric assist switched "Off".) Weight of the bike meant it accelerated amazingly well.

steve irwin - I was surprised at that myself in that link 'cos the fuller regs make it clear that the pedals have to be turning for the motor to work and all I have ridden work like this

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/ - apparently throttle control is legal for bike sold before January 2016 - and also for those sold after that date provided they've gone through type approval.

[quote=tjagain ]that would count as a polite overtake from a racer

Oi!

But still no one can point out why the **** it matters if someone is riding one. It makes no difference.

Unless you are very, very insecure.

Some people are (k)*obs irrespective of where they are or what they're doing.
Consideration or good manners - call it what you like - costs sweet truck all; there are too many who don't understand that.
Entitled or ignorant peasants or something different?

met some guy riding a full suss specialized s works bike in the new forest the other day. His wife had one as well. nice chap but I don't get it, seemed a bit over-biked both suss wise and e boost wise.

He said he'd had it derestricted so it did 30mph. illegal I guess.

When I met him he was just contemplating riding up a steep mound. "just because he could and it was easy"

I sort of get it but I sort of don't. The Segway/ fun run analogy is a good one.

It's the same thing as buying a dog then getting someone round to walk it each day whilst you're at work to save you doing it when you get home!

DezB - aha, think you and your lad passed me and my lad on the blue switchback climb today. We were the pair in front of the solo bloke you passed. Looked like you were enjoying the demo bikes. I was in the park on both days - never seen it busier. I reckon e-bikes were the most popular demo by far, certainly from my view on the trails.

So are the e bikers going to pay for random restriction/power tests at trail centres?

big yim - Member
Dez b, how's he ever going to ride hard trails on a normal bike if all he is going to ride is an ebike? Serious question.
How will he ever get fitter if he's not doing exercise?

Anyhow I'm with Binners serves ye right for going to a trail centre! 😆

Anyhow I'm with Binners serves ye right for going to a trail centre!

I do like the "limited to..." lot, most of the early threads were about removing restrictors, upping motors etc. hopefully modern manufactures are better at fitting the restrictors etc. to avoid further problem.

Nothing against them in the right place, makes a huge difference to the commuters around here as it's a hilly area.

i have an ebike, and i also have a codeine 29er, a mega am 650b and a full suss fat bike. im 65 and dont need to ride the ebike.i do approx 100 miles a week, not a lot i know. approx 30 miles is done on the ebike, so i am "earning" my e bike miles. i ride with some blokes a lot fitter, younger, and skilled than me on a tuesday and a thursday. i take the e bike on one of the nights, the more technical night, this allows me to ride WITH them and not behind, i cannot keep up otherwise. the e bike is great fun and is fun, and so are the other bikes. i did the tour de mt blanc on a mega, e are possibly doing it again soon, it wont be on the ebike. we are going to the peaks, that will be on a 29er, i am going to the lake district on my own, that will be on an ebike with a beeline, i will do twice as many miles and have twice as much fun. im not a bellend, and dont pass anyone on my ebike, i stay at the back like i usually am, but 2 yards behind, not a hundred yards behind.
bellends are bellends, which i would say most e bike haters are unless they have ridden one, then their comment counts, before then, to me, it doesnt.

I'm not sure doing something to confirm its a bad idea would stand up in court m'lud.

Perhaps we need a some kind of blue badge for disabled and infirm riders as most people are ok with them using powered bikes.

Lester +1

You know most people ride for fun, not fitness?

I don't actually think this is true. Maybe at trail centres but not overall. Anyway, the ebiker sounds like a knob, but then, we've only one side of the story.

And I'm in the motor assisted bicycle camp so long as they're legal. Which a quick browse of ebike social media says a significant number are not.

I was trying out a Haibike Enduro or something at work and never appreciated that when the assist mode cut out at 15.5 and you instinctively put more effort in you can get an EAPC up to 26 mph up hill very easily....

I don't think anyone has a problem with the less physically able / our octogenarian friends using ebikes. They're fantastic for them.

The problem comes when the younger and physically capable are attracted to them. They want the deregulated speed and that can exacerbate the inner hooligan.

The reason mountain bikers are, on the whole, nice to each other is because of the shared experience. They share the suffering of the climbs and understand what that's like. Ebikes don't stop that, but they do put one step of remove from that - and that's where the (small) problem lies.

I can see no answer. Ebikes, despite having perfectly legitimate uses, are always going to be more attractive to the hooligan mob than sweating and panting up long climbs - and there's bugger all that we can do about it.

The plus side is that the hooligan mob congregate at trail centres. The lazy-minded are less likely to be seeking out sweet sweet singletrack with ordinance survey maps (they probably can't read them anyway) so you know the answer - avoid the trailcentres on busy weekends 😉

I was at degla a few weeks ago, and met up by chance with a few guys who had e bikes, I was also on an ebike, mine hasn't been messed with and cuts out at 15 mph, there's had been messed with and could go as fast as the gearing would let them, I didn't ride very long with them, the speed they went up the 3 mile hill was just to fast for what I thought to be safe or sensible, they were going past other riders far to quick for my liking, they seemed an ok bunch but to ride de restricted e bikes at a trail ctr is not on

Yep. The temptation to derestrict (and therefore create unsafe situations) is massively tantalising and that's the worry. We don't need more idiots being attracted to our chosen sport.

There are, of course, nice and sensible ebike users. But the attraction they hold for idiots is huge.

But there's no solution. You can't put the rabbit back in the hat - and if you could you'd ruin things for legitimate / sensible users.

Yak -
DezB - aha, think you and your lad passed me and my lad on the blue switchback climb today. We were the pair in front of the solo bloke you passed. Looked like you were enjoying the demo bikes. I was in the park on both days - never seen it busier. I reckon e-bikes were the most popular demo by far, certainly from my view on the trails.

Oh yes! Cool, I bet we were polite and/or friendly 😀 (Actually, I think I said thanks to you, but not your son? Tell him thanks!)
Was great for the park - amazing weather for the 2 days. The final berms on the red have been hammered though. Crumbling away!

As for the popularity of eBike demos - yep, not something I'd contemplate buying (unless I had a spare £6K to buy me and DezB Jr one each), but to have a free go on them for a few hours was ideal.

The answer to folk destricting e bikes lies with regulation and manufacterers / retailers. Just make them hard to derestrict. Overall tho this is not really an issue I don't think.

I've not de-restricted my Levo and I don't think I will, it gets faster the fitter I get. Plus I wouldn't want to void the warranty by de-restricting it. I think it's quick enough already. I haven't been to any trail centres yet (I will) but hacking round the local woods is an absolute blast plus I'm still getting a good workout.
Anyway the op, yes he sounded like a bell end, he'd be the same on an old fashioned pedal bike, I wouldn't worry about it.

Perhaps if he went below a certain speed his bike exploded?

[quote=tjagain ]The answer to folk destricting e bikes lies with regulation and manufacterers / retailers. Just make them hard to derestrict. Overall tho this is not really an issue I don't think.

Easier said than done. You can hack pretty much anything and I doubt security against such hacking is high on the priority list for e-bike builders.

'degla is full of nobbers, unfortunately this one also had an e-bike. Probably drives a hybrid too.

aracer - you could make it more tricky tho and some retailers encourage it and will tell you how to do it.

Google mostly tells you how to do it tj

move the magnet on mine, its that easy 5 min job tops

Maybe E bikes at trail centres should be like dogs being allowed into places - only allowed if you can show you have a valid medical reason....

I wonder if it was the same bellend at a recent ebike demo I went to with some mates!! He was generally being a dick the whole time. He pushed past us on the trail shouting 'I'm on an ebike', as if somehow that made it ok. You can still slow down! Pillock.

only allowed if you can show you have a valid medical reason....

[img] [/img]

Easier said than done. You can hack pretty much anything and I doubt security against such hacking is high on the priority list for e-bike builders.

Out of curiosity, is derestricting a motorcycle still laughably easy?

Which motorcycles are restricted?

Most 50cc are restricted.

they are mopeds and not restricted as such but built to the legal limits. Would need a fair bit of tuning to get much more out of them

mopeds and [b]not restricted [/b]as such but built to the legal limits.

They are, in exactly the same way as e-bikes are. .

Could be built to go faster by the manufacturers, but to meet the legal limits they aren't.

But can be de restricted by the owners if they feel like it.

neal - but not by electronics - you have to tune them using conventional tuning ie new exhausts etc

neal - but not by electronics

Yes they are, plenty are electronically restricted. (Google "Electronically limited CDI’s")

some are restricted in other ways. Almost all are restricted in a way that's very easy to remove or bypass with simple tools (not requiring new exhausts etc) .

Mate's boy's Chinese 50 just required a module swap to de-restrict iirc. There was certainly no great application of tuning knowledge required.
You could try implementation of further regulation but who would enforce it? The police can barely patrol the roads let alone stuff like this and everyone knows it.

Which motorcycles are restricted?

Those with riders on class A2 licences was the example I had in mind

Was it this guy? Reckons his is capable of 55mph. But you'll have to fix it, to verify his claim. Got to be worth a punt at the princely sum of £1000. 😆

https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/electric-mountain-bike-5000watt/1240326744

😆 😆

Sorry OP, that might have been me 😳

Did I slap your fat arse on the way past? (if not it wasn't me, I always slap on the way up 8) )

comparing an e-bike to a motorbike might be stupid right now but in a few years time when they've got lighter, more powerful and the batteries capable of lasting all day; When you can open the throttle to power up loose stuff and power through bogs, ripping up trails: That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.
TJ: You could give up the fags and ride an ordinary bike to work?? Or are you just blending in with the other good burghers of Leith on their mobility scooters??? 😀 😀

[b]

That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

comparing an e-bike to a motorbike might be stupid right now

Yes. Yes it is.

but in a few years time when they've got lighter, [b]more powerful[/b] and the batteries capable of lasting all day; [b]When you can open the throttle [/b]to power up loose stuff and power through bogs, ripping up trails:

Illegal under current (and hardly likely to change) regulations.

That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

You mean, like it is now ?

I'm not a troll but....

Yet you managed to stay pretty squeaky clean in all this..

That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

[img] [/img]

Sounds like I had a similar experience to the op at the weekend, I was on the inside of a right hand corner, very close to the verge on a double track fire road (wider than 3 mile climb) a chap barked 'on your right', confused I though he must've meant the other 'right' where there was a good 12 feet of space to pass, but no, he was going for the foot of space between me and the verge. He flew/barged past me, at maybe 3 times my speed, almost taking us both out (we'd both unclipped)

For the same reason as the OP I suggest we ban top level XC riders at places were there are lots of other riders. Such as singletrack7, where the above happened, and coincidentally, the winners average speed, over 92 miles and 9000 feet of climbing, was only a little less than the top assisted speed of a legal ebike.

Thats ok then. Because e bike motors assist the rider. They dont solely power the bike.

I've ridden one and the term "Assist" is a massive understatement, more like gives you ten times more power than your putting in when going uphill. I was only putting in a very light effort and the bike was flying up this steep hill and would have got KOM's if it wasn't for all the other e-bikers already filling the top 10 on strava.

When you can open the throttle to power up loose stuff and power through bogs, ripping up trails: That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

They're like that already.
I went to a demo day and was riding an E Bike with a group of other E Bikers and they really rip up soft ground especially the ones with fat tyres.

However e-bikes are not so popular at the moment due to the expensive costs both the purchase and the maintenance are far higher. Which is probably why there hasn't been many complaints.

But if they do get popular in the future I wonder if there will be a much greater intolerance towards bikes on trails in future which could lead to ALL bikes being banned (not just the E Bikes ?)

i didnt think any bikes are allowed on countryside footpaths? if they arent, and you are riding on them, then surely pre ebikes have already started the problem ? or are we saying its ok for non ebikers to break the law.
thinking things through isnt a bike going up hill at 16 mph max, not as much risk as someone going down at 20 mph + including gravity and inertia, most ebike haters only discuss the problem of uphill speed, usually because the ebikes are faster than them, but forget conveniently to mention non e bikers speed downhill.on every ride ive ever been on, even though we think we are careful, i dont ever remember anyoneslowing down round a bend on a trail just in case someone is coming the other way, probably more reckless than doing the same up hill imho

motor....tick
bike......tick

So they are motorbikes.

Excellent replacement for petrol burning cars and bikes but shouldn't be on trails except in exceptional circumstances.

i dont ever remember anyone slowing down round a bend on a trail just in case someone is coming the other way

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks.

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks.

But ALL e bikers do, right?

I've not invested the time required to digest the whole thread (sorry), but surely the e-bike aspect is completely irrelevant. The issue is that expecting people to jump out of your way just because you're shouting or dinging a bell is the work of a top-flight doglobber. It's no different to honking the horn in your car when you approach someone on a bike and expecting them to dive into the verge.

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks.

But ALL e bikers do, right?

Do they? I've no idea, I never encounter them on the kind of riding I do.

Bez - Member
[b]It's no different to honking the horn in your car when you approach someone on a bike and expecting them to dive into the verge.[/b]

It took a while but there we go - e-bikes are basically cars - this thread is comedy gold 😆

It took a while but there we go - e-bikes are basically cars - this thread is comedy gold

He didn't say e bikes are basically cars, he said the behaviour is the same as someone in a car honking a horn when approaching a cyclist and expecting them to get out of the way.

"i dont ever remember anyone slowing down round a bend on a trail just in case someone is coming the other way"

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks

ive been riding the same trails for the last 5 years, and i think ive only ONCE seen any other riders, and NEVER any pedestrians.
buddy, i NEVER said they were public tracks either.
and for what its worth i dont think ever been at the front, even with my ebike or mega.

its more or less impossible to ride every inch of a trail,keep it flowing,
carrying speed and not take a few calculated chances. imho

which is why, imho familiar trails or trail centres are best, or wide open areas that you can see for a distance are good. but not always practical to reach

It took a while but there we go - e-bikes are basically cars - this thread is comedy gold

Did you actually read what I wrote (you know, about the vehicle being completely irrelevant to what's being discussed here) or did you just see the words "e-bike" and "car" and invent some other words around them?

if anyone is quicker than you, im guessing you would Want to get out of the way, id hate to hold anyone up, and id hate to be held up. so its all about understanding the protocol and pass in an agreed way, id like to see this protocol, is there one?
if not its possibly just two peoples different ideas of how to be polite and not a nob head. i never pass anyone so its not an issue, unless they have stalled. i had a guy up my arse at bpw and was pushing me quicker and quicker which i liked, there wasnt a passing position so i kept going but it was a bit too quick and i made a mistake on the last berm and did my rotator cuff.

Passing protocol?

Real life - ask politely to come past at a good place for the rider in front. Or back off and wait for a fireroad/wide bit/gap. Thank the rider once past.

Race - at a good opportunity (arguably another topic 😉 ) shout "on yer left/right" and get on with it. Thank the rider once past.

I've ridden one and the term "Assist" is a massive understatement, more like gives you [b]ten times more power than your putting in when going uphill[/b]

No commercially available ebike does that, unless it's been modified.

motor....tick
bike......tick

So they are motorbikes.

Nope. The law says they are pedal cycles.

So they are pedal cycles.

It's amazing how people keep repeating the same incorrect nonsense.
And doing it in a really cocky way too 🙄

Dunning Kruger Effect ..... tick!

Sounds like someones pride was hurt by a faster rider.

So they are pedal cycles.

[quote=Bez ]I've not invested the time required to digest the whole thread (sorry), but surely the e-bike aspect is completely irrelevant. The issue is that expecting people to jump out of your way just because you're shouting or dinging a bell is the work of a top-flight doglobber. It's no different to honking the horn in your car when you approach someone on a bike and expecting them to dive into the verge.

Indeed - exactly the point I was trying to make by posting that video earlier - the details of the vehicles involved are irrelevant (another similar example would be somebody sitting on your bumper flashing their lights).

Metasequoia - Member
He didn't say e bikes are basically cars, he said the behaviour is the same as someone in a car honking a horn when approaching a cyclist and expecting them to get out of the way.

Wouldn't expect to see many cars on trails - even at trailcentres - but ok, usually people allow for a degree of humour on here, bad as it may be... it's someone faster on a bike overtaking you, despite the protestations of many, motor or not. In his analogy, he's kept the bike being overtaken, but replaced the e-bike with a car - what am I missing here? Why not say it's like a car honking it's horn at another car?

Bez - Member
Did you actually read what I wrote (you know, about the vehicle being completely irrelevant to what's being discussed here) or did you just see the words "e-bike" and "car" and invent some other words around them?

Yes, but the vehicle is completely relevant to the thread, it's up there in the title... I mean, if the vehicle in question is completely irrelevant as you say, you could have at least made it slightly obvious by saying something like "it's the same as Ayrton Senna driving right up the arse of Shergar & calling him a donger through a circus megaphone" or something.

Bez -
I've not invested the time required to digest the whole thread

If you had there was a good point mentioned on the previous page - would the OP have been annoyed & started a ranty thread if he'd been overtaken at 18mph on a climb by someone who was benefiting from freakishly good genetics & a serious training regime instead of a motor? Nope.

Hope that helps 😀

Does it have a motor? Yes or no.

My road bike has 2 motors, one for the front mech, another for the rear.

If you turn the pedals on it, it goes forward. Just like every legal ebike, fat bike, road bike, tandem, mountain bike etc ad infinitum

Does it have a motor? Yes or no.

Is it a motorbike? Yes or No.

what am I missing here? Why not say it's like a car honking it's horn at another car?

Because, given that the vehicle is immaterial, if I were to list every possible analogous scenario it'd be fairly tedious to read, so I just picked one. Car-on-car, fine, doesn't matter: some people behave like this on foot and I'm not equating cars with shoes either.

What I *think* you're missing is this:

Not only is it not about a vehicle, but it's also not about simply being overtaken, which is why the point about being overtaken by someone fitter isn't really relevant either.

It's about some people being self-important dicks and expecting others to jump out of their way on demand because they think they're entitled to never be held up.

Thing is ebikes can bring conflict because they bring a huge differential in speed.

For most practical cases, the difference in speed between riders on pedal bikes is generally pretty small. A really fit person might average say 10mph up a climb, and an average rider say just 6mph. But ebikes mean you can power up climbs at a huge speed differential, and this brings conflict.

It would be the same if you say were mincing down a black run on an 80mm XC race hardtail, and someone came flying down behind you on a full-on 200mm DH bike.

Differential speed = conflict