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I ride to work nearly every day and have done for years. I work in public sector so, on paper at least, this is encouraged. If I need to drive to meetings etc I use the pool car.
Every now and again I have to go to early meetings off site and take my own car, so far so good. Claim the mileage as usual. But, here is the rubbish bit, I have to deduct from my claim, my home to work mileage. Therefore, when I take the car direct to a meeting, I always have to claim 10 miles less than what I have actually driven. The policy works on the assumption that everybody drives to work, so any business miles straight from home should automatically deduct commuting miles.
Seems a little harsh, no? Have tried challenging it but the policy is da policy...... Doesn't really encourage biking, public transport, car sharing etc.
Everywhere I've worked you claim the mileage from work to the site. If it's closer to home then it's a bonus 🙂
as above, its standard practice to claim from work place to work - not home...
cycle to work and then use the pool car?
You are also being treated exactly the same as everyone else
You're not being discriminated against, its just that they're applying the rules correctly, unless of course you want to be taxed on the benefit?
Of course if you drive in the opposite direction to get to the site then you're quids in!
We get paid the difference in mileage between home-work and home-venue.
Cycle to the meeting and claim 20p a mile?
Could you cycle to the off-site meeting? Expenses for riding your bike is pretty cool - depends how far away you need to go of course.
So - cycle to work and then use the pool car.
Standard practice
think this based on your employers (correct I think) interpretation of HMRC rules on expensed mileage
A company/public can have any mileage policy they like, but you are still able to claim (or loose) any difference from the TaxMan.
[i]think this based on your employers (correct I think) interpretation of HMRC rules on expensed mileage[/i]
Nope.
Any home to normal place of work (deduction) is irrelevent from a tax perspective, just search the 'net for HMRC and read.
Take the pool car home the night before?
Take pool car home = benefit in kind and a tax liability
Take pool car home = benefit in kind and a tax liability
For tax reasons you can't claim for commute mileage I.E home to work etc
Of course if you drive in the opposite direction to get to the site then you're quids in!
Not so. If I am out all day, not going into the office, they will always deduct those 10 miles on the assumption that, had I not been at the meeting, I would have driven into work anyway. In this case, makes no difference what direction the meeting is
Not always possible to cycle to meetings, most of them are a 50 mile or so round trip. This also stretches the capability of the pool car, it is electric with very limited range!
I have to remove home to work mileage from any mileage claim.
franksinatra - MemberOf course if you drive in the opposite direction to get to the site then you're quids in!
Not so. If I am out all day, not going into the office, they will always deduct those 10 miles on the assumption that, had I not been at the meeting, I would have driven into work anyway.
thats wrong - what you should be getting is work to meeting place minus home to work. Or home to meeting place whichever is less IIRC So it depends on the direction of the meeting place how much yo get deducted.
It will all be laid out in your employee handbook.
But the answer is to ride to work and use a pool car. that way you don't pay that ten miles millage
Not true. As long as the car is part of the pool and not for exclusive use it doesn't become a benefit in kind. If he was taking the same car home EVERY night and nobody else was using it ever then it would be of course. But that's not the suggestion 🙂
Assuming your bike is cheaper to run than your car I can see your point.
Using me as an example, because I know me.
I ride 8 miles to work, cost =£0 (Ok, little bit of wear & tear, depreciation etc) If I am complelled by work to drive then it would cost 25p/mile in petrol alone, ergo I am incurring an expense out of myown pocket for the benefit of the business, therefore I would expect reimbursement of it. So for a 50mile round trip that would be £12.50 just in petrol, HMRC say 40p/mile so it would leave me £20 out of pocket, surely my employers would be expected to cough up?
If I buy anything else for them I claim expenses, why should petrol etc be any different?
what you should be getting is work to meeting place minus home to work
Why though, I don't have any home to work miles as these are done on the bike
I'm not quite sure I see how they are discriminating against you being a cyclist?
Surely anyone that drives to work would similarly have to knock off the home-work mileage if they were to attend an early meeting? Or they would have to drive to the office to collect the pool car (the same as you would have to ride to collect the pool car).
It's your decision to ride (at effectively no cost) to work. If you're really that concerned that if you have an early meeting it is costing you money, then ride to work and pick up the pool car, then it won't cost you.
I too was under the impression that you have to knock off the mileage for tax purposes, otherwise it could be seen as a benefit in kind?
Surely anyone that drives to work would similarly have to knock off the home-work mileage if they were to attend an early meeting?
Yes, but the OP has incurred 10 miles more worth of cost than he would otherwise, everyone else wouldn't.
Yes, but the OP has incurred 10 miles more worth of cost than he would otherwise, everyone else wouldn't.
Spot on. They pay me less miles than I drove, as it is assumed that I would have driven to work anyway
*shouts HELLO!! - this vvvv
Junkyard - Membercycle to work and then use the pool car?
You are also being treated exactly the same as everyone else
geoffj - Member*shouts HELLO!! - this vvvv
Junkyard - Member
cycle to work and then use the pool car?
You are also being treated exactly the same as everyone else
this
But the OP has decided to drive to the meeting, rather than ride to work to collect the pool car to go to the meeting, so surely it's his decision to take a mode of transport that is costing him money.
I know I sound like i'm being a bit of a tool, but this isn't discrimination due to riding to work.
If he really feels like it is discrimination, then take it up with his line manager/HR
Spot on. They pay me less miles than I drove, as it is assumed that I would have driven to work anyway
Have you thought of telling them you don't have a car at work to get to the off site meeting ?
Just a thought.
*shouts HELLO!! - this vvvvJunkyard - Member
cycle to work and then use the pool car?
You are also being treated exactly the same as everyone else
This
Not always possible to cycle to meetings, most of them are a 50 mile or so round trip. This also stretches the capability of the pool car, it is electric with very limited range!
cycle to work and then use the pool car?
You are also being treated exactly the same as everyone else
Yep, bollox to the environment and the guy's time. Let's ride 10 miles, and then collect a car and drive (for all we know back the way he's just come) and again in the evening, adding another 20miles worth of emmissions, congestion etc and costing him probably an hour by the time he's ridden to work, collected the car and then driven it to where could have started from had he been in his own vehicle.
.
I say he's not being treated like everyone else, they are being paid for their [i]additional[/i] expenses, he isn't.
I say he's not being treated like everyone else, they are being paid for their additional expenses, he isn't.
So let the tax payer pick up the [i]additional[/i] expense?
So let the tax payer pick up the additional expense?
No, the employer. He has incurred a cost for their benefit. Give him his petrol money.
The OP's time is actually saved as i'm assuming that driving to the meeting directly from home is quicker than riding to the office to collect the pool car and continuing the journey from there.
The employer is also paying for his additional expenses, but are not covering his expenses for deciding to take his car directly from home to save a ride to work.
If the pool car is not available, or (because it's electric) not capable of taking him to the meeting, then that's a different story entirely.
BUT if the pool car is available, then he is being treated identically to everyone else, as they too would only be covered for their additional expenses (mileage from office to meeting)
Why should the employer/tax payer incur additional costs because the OP has decided to drive say 30 miles to a meeting, rather than his usual ride 10 miles and then take the pool car for the remaining distance.
At the point of stating the obvious, just go back to the office, then you can claim all your work miles. If its more convenient to go home then you deduct mileage but that's your choice. The fact you'd normally ride in is neither here nor there. You should be able to take the pool car overnight if you need work early or late.
<yawn>
cant believe this thread is still going. Typical public sector mentality. Do you get an attendance bonus as well.
As others have said - rules have been interpreted correctly- get over it FFS!
No, the employer. He has incurred a cost for their benefit. Give him his petrol money.
He works in the public sector!
If pool cars are available then I don't really see the problem. We don't have pool cars at work so I have to drive 12 miles to work if I need to use my car during the day which grates a little.
Its the standard practice for this type of expense - my (public sector) employer implements it in exactly the same way.
Normal rules, either public or private sector, are business mileage from your normal place of work to your meeting / site. If that is more than your home to meeting / site, then you still claim from your normal place of work. If a pool car is not available or suitable and you have to, or are expected to use your own car, then you need business car insurance. You can claim this as expenses, as per normal out of pocket expenditure.
You are not being discriminated against.
b r - Member
A company/public can have any mileage policy they like, but you are still able to claim (or loose) any difference from the TaxMan.think this based on your employers (correct I think) interpretation of HMRC rules on expensed mileage
Nope.
Any home to normal place of work (deduction) is irrelevent from a tax perspective, just search the 'net for HMRC and read.
correct employer can have any policy they like
yes if employer refunds acceptable travel expenses at a lower rate than the HRMC rate you can reclaim the difference - assuming you do a tax return and keep records and claim
you could lose rather than [i]loose out[/i] if you employer is paying a higher mileage rate than the HRMC rate
home to workplace is a complex issue and as you say search the internet
for relevant information rather than [i]irrelevent [/i]
You're looking at this in a glass-half-empty kind of a way OP. Think of the benefits you are accruing in later life - knackered knees, haemorrhoids, permanent helmet-hair / baldness, broken body and shattered nerves through fighting with cars... See? It's not all bad 😉
interesting how effectively the "same" employer can have such different rules. I also work for "the public sector", and the only reason we can claim mileage on our own private cars for some sort of client meeting is if there has been some sort of emergency, otherwise claims are not entertained, has to be pool, hire cars or taxis.
I have no idea why.
I cycle to office and collect pool car, or have a hire car delivered to the house if its a very early start
What if the meeting is only 5 miles from home? Do you have to pay back 5 miles worth of allowances?
I think you are missing the really important point here.
At what stage during all this cycling/driving/collecting pool cars etc is the OP going to be able to have his tea breaks ?
tea breaks - good point in olden days they'd have sent a catering van out to follow you to meeting with a tea urn, subsidised bourbons and a photocopy of a crossword to keep all things equal
edit
otherwise claims are not entertained, has to be pool, hire cars or taxis.I have no idea why.
my [i]guess[/i] would be that at some point employees had "essential car user allowances" and these were withdrawn
Ah yes Essential Car User Allowance.
I had a job in loal government once, that involved getting around pretty much all the sites, was out at meetings most days. No car user allowance. My manager had one, and her car sat in the carpark all day, every day, no exceptions. She got right stinky when I questioned this. So I started cycling to meetings (was much fitter then).
Anyways found out after I left that she was being paid less then me, (which kind of explained why she seemed to hate me instantly for no reason) so the Car User Allowance was being used to bump up her salary.
Only in local government !! NEVER work there.
[i]I have to deduct from my claim, my home to work mileage. Therefore, when I take the car direct to a meeting, [b]I always have to claim 10 miles less than what I have actually driven.[/b] The policy works on the assumption that everybody drives to work, so any business miles straight from home should automatically deduct commuting miles.
Seems a little harsh, no? Have tried challenging it but the policy is da policy...... Doesn't really encourage biking, public transport, car sharing etc.
[/i]
Its the real world.
I've always been told I can not claim for miles, from home to work.
Answer ?.
[b]Always[/b] go to work first, then set out to your meeting.
😉
I once worked at a place that occasionally required me to go to another site. They wouldn't let me use my own car and claim the mileage, instead they made me hire a car each time, at a much greater cost to them and inconvenience to me. Bizarre.
Out of curiosity what does the OP claim back per mile?
If you use your own car, HMRC allows 45p per mile for the 1st 10,000 miles per year and 25p thereafter. So if the employer lets the OP claim back say 25p per mile, the OP then would claim the difference between the two amounts in their tax return.
And by the same token if the employer pay 50p per mile the OP would then have a tax liability on the additional income.
i do find it hard to see the issue here every one has to travel to work and incours some expense in doing so. the Op has chosen a cheep efficient form of transport with financial (he saves on running costs of a car) and health benefits occasionally he for business reasons uses an alternative form of transort to commute and then uses that vehicle to work he is reimbursed as are his collegues for the work expenses but not reimbursed for the loss of savings he was making over his collegues on the commute. Not discrimination and surely you knew you would have to work off site when you took the job and when you decided to commute by bike.
I commute by bike execpt when i need a car when i drive and incour millage and parking that i could never conceive an employer would reimburse me for. How i chose to get to work is my business and my responsibility.
Don't start me on folk who expect to get paid when they can't make it to work because it has snowed and they have a long driveway. Thats discrimination over those that make it in that day !
Always go to work first, then set out to your meeting
At least on paper
i had this conversation with my boss when he asked me to go to a meeting at an office on the other side of town -at least 10 miles - with no warning and thus no time to cycle
said "can i get a taxi" - "what do you mean" - " i cycled to work " - "why dont you bring your van" - "costs me 6 quid a day to bring it " - "so it costs everyone else to bring their cars too" - "costs me nothing to ride though and i enjoy it - you dont pay me to own a car so i am not obliged to bring a car to work" - cogs whirred for a bit and he saw it made sense !
LOL @ the OP, what a douche
okay, I'm not feeling much love or sympathy here for this one. Fair enough, it is always worth getting other opinions as sometimes your own view on things can become a bit black and white.
I just don't like the fact that a policy assumes that every body drives to work.
Guess I'll drop it now!
franksinatra - MemberI just don't like the fact that a policy assumes that every body drives to work.
But that's the point your comment above is totally irrelevant. How you choose to get to work under normal circumstances has no bearing on the policy and is not discriminating against you in any way.
Regardless of *how* you get to work, there's a pool car available for you to use.
What about the people who walk? Or catch the bus? Or get a lift of someone?
No different to you on a bike...
OP's expenses rules are exacly the same as mine. I sometimes cycle from home directly to a meeting at another site, but I can't claim mileage for that. I can however claim mileage for travelling from that site back to my office.
I have been in the position of having to travel to off site meetings for many years with various companies. The rule has always been the same. You claim the mileage from your normal place of work and back. This is not a company rule but HMRC.
Nope its not discrimination, but it is an additional expense.
I walk 2 or 3 days a week (6 miles each way) but when I need to go out I have to take my car (hopefully tis coincides with when its raining...).
If I leave from (or finish at) home (as I did this morning) I have to work out what the distance would've been if I'd left from the office. I can only claim the lesser amount (i.e. if its less from home than from the office or if its less from office). I'm also public sector.
I get a massive ~£7 a month (essential car users allowance) and only 40p/mile.
In private practice it was you could only claim what the mileage from office was. I had a couple of contracts where the site was basically on my door step. So I got to claim the mileage back to the office which I would have been doing anyways...
Swings and roundabouts sometimes...
Regardless of *how* you get to work, there's a pool car available for you to use.What about the people who walk? Or catch the bus? Or get a lift of someone?
If you read back you will see that the pool car doesn't have the range to get to some of my meetings.
I may have titled this thread badly but I did say before that this is equally unfair to those who car share, get public transport etc.
b*stards! i suppose they'll be cutting your pension next... where will it end eh?
I think you've missed something Frank.
Your home to work mileage is zero. Because zero is the amount of driving you do to get to work. (Although 10 miles is the amount of cycling you do).
Just start filling in your expense claim that way.
If you want to feel really irked, use a motorcycle. Still pay the same for petrol, tyres wear faster and cost more than a car, tax is marginally cheaper, insurance for business use is higher...
HMRC guidelines for cars- 45p per mile
For motorcycles- 24p per mile...
I am in the same position regarding home to work mileage, meh, just suck it up.
I just don't like the fact that a policy assumes that every body drives to work.
No it doesn't, it assumes that everybody has to get to work somehow. How you choose to travel is up to you, but whether you're going to a meeting or to your normal place of work you're still having to cover this mileage, just like everyone else. There's no discrimination here whatsoever. How do you think those who live 30 miles from work feel? If they want to claim any mileage they'd have to be travelling over 30 miles to their meeting and still only claim mileage at the same rate a you who has benefitted from living relatively close to work. Get a grip and think yourself lucky to be in a job that pays any mileage at all.
The HMRC don't want employees to lose out when they doing something for their employer but sometimes their rules don't always work and some people will lose out...
In 2007 I had a company car and I paid my own fuel and then claimed back the mileage based on the HMRC advisory rates. My company paid the advisory rates and not a penny more. At the time I had a car with a 1998cc engine. The advisory banding was from 1400cc to 2000cc and the pence per mile you could claim for that banding was 11p. Unfortunately the fuel cost was 13p per mile, so every time I drove the car for business it would cost me! 2p per mile might not seem a lot but I was driving nearly 1000 miles per week. So just doing what I was paid to do, was costing me nearly £80 per month!!. When I complained to HR that they should pay me more than the advisory rate, I was told that I should have ordered a smaller engined and/or a most efficient car!
FWIW - if the engine size had been 2001cc, I would have got 16p per mile.
Some you win, some you lose!
franksinatra - Member
okay, I'm not feeling much love or sympathy here for this one
I'm with you.
Your colleauges, who usually drive to work, are paid for the all extra expense they incur in driving to a meeting.
You, who usually ride to work, are not being paid for all of the extra expense you incur when driving to a meeting.
Try Big John's approach.
I lose out on my business mileage too - my car is more thirsty than the HMRC rates.
However, because I get a car allowance I get paid commuting mileage, albeit taxable. This also means that I get paid 20p per mile to ride my bike to the office!