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Am forever trying to balance enjoying my unstructured outdoor riding with a meaningful training routine, and it struck me that since my outdoor rides run the gammut from easy Z2 all the way up to almost threshold (usually when enjoying myself too much playing in the mud on my CX bike) then all that I'm really missing is a bit of really high intensity work, which is probably best done on the trainer anyway.
I figured I should be aiming at the sort of higher-than-threshold stuff which I guess is VO2 max style workouts? Tried a 4x4 today based off heart rate only (trying to hit 171+ which was my threshold heart rate last time I did an FTP test). It was tough and I botched it a wee bit, but it was my first attempt so will try again next week with a better idea of intensity.
Or should I be aiming for shorter 30/15 style efforts? Short term goal events are just a gravel 'reliability ride' mid-February which sounds like it could be pacey, then a solitary CX race 2 weeks after that.
is a bit of really high intensity work, which is probably best done on the trainer anyway.
I've previously been of the same opinion. Do all that Z2 stuff outdoors and save the "hard" efforts for the turbo. However, I've realised that when the weather - and conditions - are really shit, being outdoors for long rides is less than ideal. I've therefore been doing some much longer/easier virtual rides in Tacx, treating them like my outdoors, just riding along.
Based on my complete lack of knowledge on performance improvements, how about -
Pyramid sessions (or are they called russian steps?)? Start easy after a warm up then got for 1 minute with an increased intensity, then 30 seconds eased off then 45 seconds at a higher intensity then 30 seconds backed off then 30 seconds even higher intensity then 30 seconds backed off then 15 seconds full effort then 30 seconds backed off then work your way back down to 1 minute easy...then repeat 4 or 5 times, then next session, slight more intensive.
No idea if that will work for you, but it always hurts when I finally get round to doing it. Not done it for over a year and I'm struggling to suffer more than 20 minutes on the turbo just now.
I like Zwift racing. I'm sure it's not "optimal", but I can't be bothered with any kind of structured workout/program tbh, plus I push myself way harder in a race than I would just doing a workout. And they're fun (well I think so anyway 🙂 ) Current fave is the Tiny Races on Saturdays (4 mini races inside an hour!)
Thats easy. Throw it as far away as possible. Find something better to do next week
If one mid-week workout means I can enjoy riding the same slippery muddy trails that I rode last week, but a bit faster, that seems like a good use of my time, I mean, we all enjoy going faster on the trails don't we?
Think I saw a Pyramid workout of sorts recommended somewhere else, will give it a look, could be a good way to wring the most out of the legs!
I'd be doing a (zwift?) race but that's mainly because I'm not good at self-motivation
Yeah dumb turbo. I don't struggle with my workouts, I keep them short and have some good tunes in my headphones to keep me going, I use virtual power which is accurate enough for my purposes.
I guess the question should really have been 'what is the best VO2 max workout for someone who's not used to VO2 max workouts'...
I'd do 30/30s - three sets of six, five minutes between sets. I listened to something recently, maybe the Time Crunched Cyclist podcast, that suggested different VO2 interval durations suit different physiologies, but I can't remember much more tbh. But personally that's what I'd do as they've always worked well for me and are over more quickly than longer intervals.
Outside it'd be flat out up a moderate incline from a rolling start, roll back down and repeat, I think the flat out effort matters more than the power figure. Maybe do 20/40s for a few sessions first to get your head round it. Quite hurty, but very effective.
ps: VO2 intervals really hurt. Being fully caffeinated and listening to some properly aggressive music kind of works for me as a sort of motivating thing. They are not pleasant.
VO2 intervals really hurt
Yeah, so I discovered! Think I'm more used to threshold stuff which is unpleasant but can be suffered through, I only managed one complete interval out of 4 today.
30/30s probably a better start point while I get used to it.
Like scotroutes says, if your outdoor sessions are beating you up a bit, indoor is good for the extended endurance that will make you faster at the weekends in the mud. Doing hard sessions on the trainer might end up overtraining.
But, if you are after some decent sessions, pick from any of these and vary them as you see fit. Used these on my dumb trainer and judged intensity by HR. Able to program the intervals on my polar so didn't have to think too hard
I don’t get on with Zwift workouts, so I do the paced rides. A colleague swears by the races though.
If one mid-week workout means I can enjoy riding the same slippery muddy trails that I rode last week, but a bit faster, that seems like a good use of my time
I don't think more power is necessarily what you need in slippery muddy conditions, not saying it won't help, but training skills would be equally beneficial. Specifically skinnies. setup a long skinny in your garage and practice riding along it. How skinny depends on your existing skill. Getting onto it without momentum will be more difficult, trackstand upon it for extra points. It will help you become more agile on the bike, which in turn helps you respond better to loss of grip.
I always found strict 2x20 threshold sessions with an 8 minute rest interval most productive. Good for muscular endurance Hard enough to require concentration and time passes pretty quickly.
Never really found the very high intensity intervals productive.
If you have a power meter then under/overs are fine on a turbo - mind numbing but doable.
I've not found the distraction that works for.me.on a turbo yet...I'd love to manage 60-90 minutes, but just can't get past 20 minutes. Might need to try a session plan again.
Current favourite is 2x20 min blocks with 2 minute mini ramps. Start in sweet spot and ramp to top end of threshold in 1.40 then 20 seconds of high watts then repeat, also good for recovery under load
ZRL (zwift racing). It hits the intensity and is more fun/motivating than just looking at the numbers. They are normally warmup, threshold for 40-50 minutes with the odd all out sprint for good measure.
To maintain fitness I do one indoor session per week of Lactate Threshold one week and VO2 then next and repeat ...
Thanks all, I think Badlywireddog has helped me clarify my own thinking 😎
Never really found the very high intensity intervals productive.
No, I think I had read that you can only really use them over a short (6-8 week) period as you just plateau otherwise. I've got 6-8 weeks till my next (and only) CX race so it seems worth a shot.
It hits the intensity and is more fun/motivating than just looking at the numbers. They are normally warmup, threshold for 40-50 minutes with the odd all out sprint for good measure.
Not knocking it, clearly popular for a reason, but Zwift racing isn't the sort of training I'm after, I'm already getting a (cumulative) 40-50 or more minutes of threshold outdoors, currently mostly from big efforts in the mud or climbs. I need the structure and simplicity of a proper interval workout to 'fill in the gaps' so to speak and hit the intensities I don't hit outdoors.
I don’t think more power is necessarily what you need in slippery muddy conditions, not saying it won’t help, but training skills would be equally beneficial
I'm riding sort of CX-y local singletrack, often flat and/or muddy. I'm rarely going fast enough to challenge my existing skills unless I'm pedalling hard, I just want to train my ability to pedal harder, or for longer!
Kiss 100 Zwift race on Sundays, epic tough.
Aye but Zwift racing isn't really training is it, it's what you train FOR surely?
e.g. if you're doing 40-50 minutes at threshold with a couple of sprints thrown in then at best you're getting a decent threshold workout, but you're not getting the 10-15 minutes of solid, quality VO2 max that you'd get from a proper interval session.
I don't lack for threshold (or motivation, or interest) with my normal IRL riding, so can stomach one 'boring' interval session once a week, especially with some QOTSA or Takkyu Ishino providing the distraction 😎
Plus even the cheapest Zwift setup would cost me money I really need to be spending on a better waterproof and spare wheels 😆
I'm no training expert but personally I seem to get good results from simplifying and polarising. Plus, consistency does beat intensity and simpler stuff is easier to be consistent with. I tend to do Z2 on road, gravel or MTB for mixed intensity, HI on the turbo when I need to get fitter. Probably 70% low intensity, 20% mixed and 10% HI if it were a 10hr week. If I'm at 20hrs the HI time stays the same.
For the HI I just do one basic session, 5x5x5 over-unders. Not found anything else quite as hard or effective apart from actual 20MP tests that are a HI session in themselves. The benefit of the over-under session seems to be the total time spent around threshold, by backing off a bit but not too far you're effectively going at HI for 50 mins.
171+ which was my threshold heart rate last time I did an FTP test
About the same (a bit lower) here, so 'over' is aiming to hold 170-175 for 5 mins, under is around 155-165 for 5 mins. 5 reps. 'under' is as high as you can manage while getting some respite, but it's still meant to be a bstrd of a session so don't back down on the 'under' sets. When I start a plan (weekly session for 8-12 weeks) I'll do 4 mins of each and might only get 4 reps, then go to 5 of both and then 5 reps. It's not a sprinter's session but it does do the trick for climbing and overall power levels. I hate it : )
4x4 is quite lengthy for an early VO2 session, start a bit lower and progress on to longer intervals each time.
You’re looking for time spent around/above 90% MHR to drive adaptations, do whatever format you can that allows you to accumulate time at that intensity.
Trial and error, you can also experiment with hard starts, go nuts early and hang on!
I do long Z2 with coco in paced group rides and save the VO2max stuff for velodrome (still indoors). Pumping out watts on a static bike is just not my thing. I’d rather do sprints on the road instead. I do like a good bike race on the TV above the iPad. And the UCI Track Champion's League on Eurosport is about 3h.