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April-June eldest_oab and pal are travelling with bikes from Spain, French med to Italy/south Alps. Travel by train most likely.
They've "done" Morzine & PDS most of last summer.
June to August they plan western USA up to Western Canada. They meet family_oab in Pemberton /Whistler in July.
Utterly brilliant riding, maybe some other outdoor adventures is the goal. They are both superb riders and competent in the hills.
Help us out - suggest places they should visit, cheap accommodation suggestions (tent is out due to lack of security), including anyone with a room to rent and more. Do USA buses take bike bags?
PM me if needed.
Plenty of cheap motels in the USA. If they are properly out in the sticks then security isn't an issue, there is no-one out there! I didn't lock by bike on the TD once I'd left Banff.
Wow, good for them, epic stuff.
Not done too much riding in west coast USc(none in Canada - so far!), but on a work trip earlier this year I was stunned by the quality fo the riding in hills north of LA. Really great. Hard! (big hills, long technical ups, steep techy downs. lots of great single track, seemingly great access)
Not much of a destination though, it's boring commutersville.
Took the bike up to SF as well, rode Marin County just for the history, but the access laws are very restrictive there and the riding not so good. Lovely views though.
MTB project website very good for planning rides in the US. I use it a lot.
I'll stick my usual vote in for a Trip to Graubunden in Switzerland. Flippin incredible riding (Flims/Laax, Davos/St.Moritz, Lenzerheide, Chur etc etc) - camping there very common and security not so much of an issue as it's Der Schweiz.
Bozeman, Montana.
It's what America should be. Ace riding, great people.
What big_scott_nanny said, although it is a bit expensive. Aosta valley/ the Bourg St Maurice region have loads of riding and tend to be less expensive as they're Italy/ France rather than Switzerland.
Part of our challenge is they cannot hire a car, so buses and trains are needed.
How is USA for this?
I know Europe is fine.
Why can’t they hire a car? Could they buy instead? Public transport in the US is pretty shoddy outside the big cities
I'd ride round Oz slowly.
(Typical STW type response 🙂 )
Honestly, public transport is shockingly bad in the US outside cities. There are few trains to speak of. Buses are very limited but they may actually carry a bike bag - check out local bus companies. But that begs the question what do you do with your bag if you wish to do s point-to-point ride. Is full-on bikepacking an option and just travel light. There are some incredible trails that could be linked together to get you to BC: Fly to Denver and do the Colorado Trail (and other meccas). Get themselves to NE California for Tahoe, Downieville etc. Take Oregon Timber Trail north. Cross into Canada. Months-worth of biking (maybe too much!). But I don’t know how they get around between hotspots. Uber?
Why can’t they hire a car?
Under 21 insurance, and therefore cost, is difficult to impossible it seems. Some states it's law.
The credit card also has to be in the drivers name, with £1500 excess on it. We've already opened a credit builder card, but I'm doubting he will have enough credit limit in a few months.
I wouldn’t want to try and get public transport between decent sized towns and cities in West USA never mind to nice riding destinations. Then add on a bike bag, luggage and riding kit? Err no way. If it’s not 100% impossible it’s extremely close to it.
The problem in the USA is scale and access. There are some places where you might find trails near to places to stay - for example we were in Lake Tahoe and could ride from one place we stayed in. Moab was sort of similar but for either option I don’t think public transport could get you to either location easily if at all (and at great expense and huge amounts of time too). And a lot of the trails are further out and up the hills anyway which you wouldn’t want to be riding to get to the start of as it’d take hours.
It’s not like in UK where most towns are surrounded by countryside which has rights of way across it. Even small towns will have large private areas of land around them owned by householders which probably won’t have any access across it. You’d probably have to drive 10-20 miles to get to the start of a decent trail. Ok locals might know trails which are easily accessible but that’s going to be rare and who are you going to ask when you rock up to a town? If you go to a bike shop they’ll probably be telling you to drive to x trail head. I think Moab had a shuttle to some of the trail heads (we didn’t use it as we had a 4x4) but that’s unusual.
It’s the sheer scale of the USA that makes it so difficult to get around without a car. You could be critical that they don’t have decent public transport but the whole country started expanding with everyone’s family in their own wagon - trains have only really been used extensively for goods movements and buses are only used by the poorer people and in cities as parking can be a big problem. The cost of providing decent public transport would be gigantic and just not viable.
Just checked on Google Maps. San Francisco airport to Santa Cruz (great riding in area) is just over an hours drive and 61 miles. On public transport you’re looking at 4 hours and multiple changes along the way.
Denver airport to Moab (nearest airport) is 378 miles and 6 hours by car. There is no public transport option other than flying again at £130.
Our daughter has done it for the last four summers whilst at Uni, as soon as Uni has finished she has been off. She has also included some of the EWS rounds where possible. Next year will probably be her last as she will have finished Uni but is looking at Whistler and surrounding areas.
From her and our experience,
Its not cheap and I don't think it can be done at that age cheap. Do all the calculations on cost and probably double it.
We got her an extra credit card on our account in her name, it was for emergencies and has been a god send.
Over that length of time and use of the bike means some major servicing of shocks and drive train, add in the breakages, lift passes, insurances and the costs start spiraling.
Transport, accommodation and food bump it even higher and car rental is virtually non existent or expensive.
Taking all that into account its a fantastic experience and one I'm envious of.
To keep costs as low as possible she narrowed it down in Europe to regions to limit the travel. Spain to the Southern Alps was too far
Flying to Nice puts Finale, Molini, Sospel and Valberg together for ease of access but it does get hot.
Further north gives access to Bourg by train and buses to surrounding areas and over to Italy.
Further East puts Northern Italy, Austria and Slovina
Most of the time its been in Air band b and she has been lucky with some great deals
America she found expensive but glad she has done it.
Whistler area she loves but again with all the add ons above a longish stay costs quite a bit.
Because she was travelling light, for cost and ease, apart from the bike bag and weight limits, she had one other holdall. The cost of spares and consumables is a lot higher than in the UK and the weight additions means apart from a few you cant carry them.
She limited hers to a bag of pads, a couple of chains, two rear mechs and two tyres. All which got used.
Its great that you have started planning now as flights will be cheaper and gives enough time to get an itinerary together.
That's really helpful Tracey and Swedishmetal.
How did she get around in America? This seems to be a challenge...
First time in US was buses and trains, a lot of waiting around for transfers, till she joined up with someone for a lift in a car and shared the costs.
Second time, this year, we managed to get car hire via the airline and booked in advance. Was shared between them, she was the oldest at 21, and still got stung for it.
Her intentions had always been to get some work where ever she was, most out in Whistler are looking for part time work, to help out but we took it on the chin and said that she should be enjoying every minute of it out there and worry about working after Uni.
Your only young once and I know she has benefited from the experiences.
I would say stick around Whistler, Pemberton, Squamish - plenty to do. Locals are (were) friendly, chat with bike shop staff and engineer some friendly road trips as you go along.
Having been to Oregon would totally recommend getting there, but it's vast and transport needed. McKenzie River trail for a day trip.
Will they be relying on transit / public transport in BC too? There isn't much here either! There's the Shred Shuttle between Squamish and Whistler but not too much else. Most people who come here, even for a couple of months just buy an old beater van or similar. There's no 'MOT' or similar so as long as it starts, and arguably more importantly stops then you're good to go! Insurance is expensive, but all in it would be way cheaper than renting even if he could rent. IIRC you can buy 3 months of insurance up front with no bank account. Unless rules of changed, you can drive on a UK license for a while (or in my case about 3 years....ahem....).
Right. 18yr olds. Reliable..hmmmm.
Anyone planning on or fancy riding from end of March through to end of May in Europe? Eldest_oab needs a buddy....either that or does anyone live near good European trails and need a house sitter/gardener/barman/gofa.
I think he has pals to do Canada land with from May to August at least.
I don't know what it is like now, but the Greyhound used to run all over the continent and it was brilliant. It would carry anything, and take you anywhere... more of any epic adventure machine than our Megabus network.
As for places to stay, we used to use Motel 6 pretty much everywhere. But the whole motel culture used to be both affordable, and perfect for road trips. Security would be a matter of bring your bike into your room with you.
All that said, times have changed, so what I remember may be completely wrong.
In the Midwest, though, I would put a plug in for the Badlands of South Dakota.
The USA is canned. It's only Europe then Western Canada - looks like buses in Canada will work.
If Western Canada, then can I suggest Lake of the Woods to Winnipeg, then the Interlake Region? After that, skip over Saskatchewan to get to Calgary, they ride Calgary to British Columbia through the Rockies.
I only suggest the Manitoba start because of the fact that so few tourists would even consider it, and it would be a really good opportunity to see a landscape and culture (Ojibway, Cree, and Assiniboine) that few from Europe ever bother with.
I've got nothing helpful to add, but I love these kind of inspirational/planning threads. Makes me envious - hope they have a cracking time.
For what it is worth, I found trains from Geneva Airport into Switzerland fine with bikes, if massively expensive; lucked out on space and managed to then get room on the bus up the mountain into Verbier from the station down the hill (we were there out of season, so gondola not running).
Google Millau and gorges du Tarn and see if he likes it.
I could help with accommodation.
Riding is good.
What kind of budget are they on for each leg?
Can I just say if you need another son I’m available. Wow, wish I’d not pissed my twenties away however fun it was.
You can get a train Up the west coast or can they car share? I think repack rider who appears here occasionally lives out there, but perhaps pink bike would be a better place to ask questions. The food out there is amazing.
I don’t know what it is like now, but the Greyhound used to run all over the continent and it was brilliant.
Not any more!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/greyhound-western-canada-1.4884374
There are some private operators about though.
U-haul has different requirements for renting vehicles. I’m not sure how the costs would escalate moving between states, but it could be a feasible way to cover the long journeys between locations.
He has a good budget (£6-7k), but that's still thin for 5-6 months travel...
Europe - any offers of accomodation are good, he can pay his way if cheap enough...
@cchris2lou - I'll pm you.
Canada - we noticed the greyhound disappearance as well... He is hoping to hitch some lifts.
Just checked on Google Maps. San Francisco airport to Santa Cruz (great riding in area) is just over an hours drive and 61 miles. On public transport you’re looking at 4 hours and multiple changes along the way.
I know you said that the USA was canned, but if you _did_ want to do that, getting to Santa Cruz would be pretty straightforward.
Fly in to either SFO or San Jose (or even Oakland CA). Then take Uber or Lyft.
Lyft is quoting $85 right now for a Lyft-XL (6 seater) from San Jose to Santa Cruz.
From SFO I would take Caltrain to San Jose then do the same thing (or perhaps just pay the extra).
If you were feeling keen, it would definitely be possible to cycle from San Jose across to Santa Cruz. Pick up the Los Gatos Creek Trail (about 20 minutes mostly next to the river to the trail), then take that to Lexington Reservoir. From there, head uphill towards Summit, and follow that to Demo Forest. Ride to the top (about 600m climbing), and then cycle down some amazing trails into Aptos. Watch out for the rangers; apparently some of the trails are a bit cheeky. Probably about 4-5 hours in total.
We live in a little Finca near the Spanish Med coast in Southern Cataluna. We have a couple of rooms that we let on a b&b basis but could be negotiable if they prove handy with the various jobs around the place. We're building a new pool area and have olive and almond trees to prune and older trees turn into fuel for the winter. There's loads of mountainbiking around here, no uplift-based nonsense, you have to earn the downhills. If they can get themselves to the train station which is about 15km away, (L'Ametlla de Mar) we can pick them up.
This is us.
PM me if you're interested.
I'm not sure I'd rely on hitching with a bike bag in tow in Canada especially if there's more than one one them although I've never hitched so not the right person on this. You will still encounter the issue that in some locations more than others the good riding is out of town at a trailhead. I suspect there's online ride shares and in mountain biking towns you might be able to grab lifts but I'm not that demographic.
I'm not 18 and so maybe the excitement of wandering etc would be stronger but I'd pick a few places to make a base and then hopefully make contacts for both local and getting between easier.
Off the top of my head.
Good places with lots of riding local to accommadation:
Fernie, Squamish, Whistler, Nelson (it's a bit mixed), Rossland
Places requiring a drive to get to more trails:
Calgary, Golden, Revelstoke, Northshore (depending on $$$ as to where you stayed in Vancouver)
The problem is that the secret is out and so accommadation in most of the places I've listed in the summer is going to be expensive.
I'll give this some thought and feel free to PM me if you have specific queries (although there's others closer to the riding than me)
Yeah I wouldn't be relying on hitching either. It can't be overstated just how bloody massive even just BC is. Which is both good and bad. Great for road tripping when you have a vehicle (which is why so many people buy an old beater when they arrive here...). Not so great when thinking 'I'd like to go to Kamloops this weekend' and then realize that it's 5 hours away, and the chances of finding someone going there with room for extra people / bikes is pretty minimal.
I'd be joining one or two Social Media groups like Bike Squamish on Facebook. Meet up with like minded people who have similar schedules and arrange trips when here.
Good point about the local online groups. We will go look.
I'd also never heard of Lyft.
@pistonbroke - I'll show him where you are...
" It can’t be overstated just how bloody massive even just BC is"
And empty even in the more populated parts. (by UK standards).
I think Lyft is a competitor to Uber that has traction in some places.
If they're meeting you in Whister in July (based on the OP) then how long do they have in BC prior to that? Could then perhaps advise on a few options and ideas.
If they’re meeting you in Whister in July (based on the OP) then how long do they have in BC prior to that?
They arrive BC June 1st.
We arrive July 1st for one week Pemberton.
Friends are in Squamish the next two weeks of July.
Flights home will be end of August.
Okay. So it's a month (June) and 5 weeks through August. All flights in / out of Vancouver?
Purely biking or hiking and canoe / kayaking as well?
So they are doing the European leg before the lifts open, seems a shame to do it that way around but I have no clue how the season falls in Canada.
Sounds a great adventure whatever happens.
Right - he needs (cheap) accommodation and some friendly riders to head out with in/around:
Lousa, Portugal
Sierra de Madrid / NW Madrid
Ainsa / Zona Zero
Barcelona
Sospel
Finale Ligure
He has already had some very generous offers, just not in the 'right' place for him.
Might to too far south from Lousa, but old riding buddy (Ralph) runs Lisbon Coast Cottages in Sintra with his wife:
http://lisboncoastcottages.com/
Thank you to a couple of forumites, looks like he has a plan. Flights and some accommodation booked.
March 20th
Portugal (Lousa)
Madrid
Ainsa
Barcelona (hostel with pool, almost on the trails)
Gorge du Tarn
Sospel
Finale Ligure (2weeks, joined by a friend for rest of trip)
Julien Alps
1st June - Paris to Vancouver
Vancouver/ North Shore for a fortnight
Squamish
Meet family_oab in Pemberton for a week
Stay with another pal and family in Whistler for fortnight.
Three of them have three weeks to go from Whistler to Calgary.
Stop in Halifax for three days on way back.
Back 30th August.
Uni starts in September....
Jealous, much.
Ok, last two weeks of May has fallen through.
Where to stay/ride/wander a hill between Finale/N Italy and Paris?
Couple of days near Mont Ventoux, few days in the Alpilles, Dignes et Briancon.
Rest in Burgundy enjoying the wine and then les Vosges.
Catalunya and València are worth a shot. Start in Valencia to allow the North to defrost and warm up a bit. Stop off in the the bit behind Cambrils in Southern Catalunya before going on up to Girona. Bit of Pyrenee action in Andora and France and then make your way to Alpes Maritime via Languedoc. It's something that's on my retirement to do list before I'm to frail to manage falling off.
Thoughts folks.
Eldest_oab was planning to go on 21st March.
However Portugal is closing down today (where his flight goes), Italy already is (they had three weeks there), etc etc.
I'm worried that crossing borders will lead to 2 weeks quarantine each time - and they were going to do 7 border crossings.
My suggestion to him - cancel and claim back as much of the Europe trip as you can. Get to Canada asap. Stay there. Then at least they aren't crossing borders - any lock down they will just put up with, but it won't last all summer.
Mrs_oab says cancel it all, go next year....
Any other thoughts or suggestions from you lot?
Mrs_oab +1
Three problem with that is he starts uni in September. So does he take gap year 2...?
🤷♂️ All bets are off. And university summer holidays are long.
EDIT - I proposed a daft thing
We are having the same discussions with Abigale at the moment. At least this year we won't have to worry about the EWS logistics.
As soon as she finishes school placements and winds up her last year at Uni she was planning a quick tour of Europe's best spots then off to Whistler for the rest of the season.
At the moment we don't have to cancel anything and she is just thinking straight to Canada if possible.
What does he want to do.
Our trip to Lake Garda in June is booked as is Finale in September so our fingers are crossed but not hopeful.
Tough one but I'd certainly not plan on the Europe part if you can get money back etc.
Canada isn't at quite the same level of panic (yet) - it may only be a matter of time but we also don't have the same population density in general.
As you know the thing with Canada is that it's still winter and so the biking season doesn't start for a while and requires early season flexibility (i.e car ideally) to go where the snow isn't. From May onwards is more reliable in the low lands but Alpine trails sometimes don't open until July / August.
Can he get a job for this summer that will help pay for next summer? As above summer holidays are long and could go for a bit for quality not quantity?
Get to Canada ASAP, it’s not as if Canada isn’t ace.
Can he get a job for this summer that will help pay for next summer?
He is earning a good wedge doing 5-6 days a week at the local Hilton.
If its like our house it hard to see past this Summer. Like it was hard to see past last Summer and the Summer before. They have worked hard for it and it certainly broadens the horizons. He may or may not get the chance to do it again, that's the gamble. Altering the plan rather than cancelling it or shortening it should be doable but probably more expensive.
Local elections on 15th and 22nd of march in France . After that France will probably go on level 3 with school closing etc....
I'd head to Pemberton and never look back!
A few muppets are stockpiling bog roll over here and there are a few cases but not much mass-hysteria.
"As you know the thing with Canada is that it’s still winter and so the biking season doesn’t start for a while and requires early season flexibility (i.e car ideally) to go where the snow isn’t."
I've been trail building and riding most of the winter. Maybe more likely to catch the plague down here though.
^^Sounds good then. I'm always unsure how much riding there is low down near the coast in winter.
^ I'm in Squamish.
Between Squamish and Vancouver tends to be OK to ride for most of the winter unless it's a bad one.
If I remember right, Pemberton opens up before Whistler.
The lads are in Squamish hostel for a fortnight at the end of June.
'Bike Squamish' Facebook page is good for meeting like-minded people.
If they want to shuttle but don't have a ride then the Shred Shuttle picks up riders from one or two points in town and takes them up to the top of the shuttle trails. They also do rides to Whistler.
As we all know, his travels were curtailed.
However, he is in Morzine for 6 weeks now with a couple of friends.
Like like the first week went well...
Looks like hes having a great time, Abigale set off this morning, at least it looks like good weather. Glad their making the most of it after the big change of plans.
He says it's still noticeably quieter than last year, and they've multiple offers of cheap accommodation from folk desperate for *something*...