[Closed] Idiots Blocking/Trapping trails - is there an sensible answer?

Police, motion detection cameras etc.

We just put a load of signs around our trails warning MTBers, horse riders, runners and dog walkers of traps being laid. I think it'll have a positive effect - yesterday I had a professional dog walker stop me to warn me of the notice she'd seen. 99% of people are happy to share the space, and the 1% need to learn that their behaviour is considered unacceptable by everyone, not just the user group they have a problem with.

We've had a spate of this on the local trails. All you can do is remove the obstructions when you find them. Seen a few times where small trees had been snapped over the trails to form a barrier like this ...

[img] [/img]

One of these lives in my pack for this purpose...
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OP - take it this is response to whats been going on around Brighouse/Halifax over the last week?

Its getting dangerous... like the idea of he signs though warning all trail users whether they should be there or not.

Sorry missed this. Ignore my other post.

Scary stuff

I've found in my local woods if I move logs/branches off the trails they reappear very quickly. So now if I can hop or ride over an obstacle I just leave it.

Wire across the trail is a whole different thing to a few logs though.

the log thing isnt too bad in my mind (depending on placement the fact that they are dead branches etc) the rocks are getting worse as you couldnt see them as you entered under the trees (admittedly its cheeky) the wire you dont stand a chance to see it.

[img] [/img]

This appears to be a common feature on one of my local trails. Shows just how deranged these people are, thinking that breaking healthy trees in half is somehow a more acceptable activity.

did you run a mower down that 'trail' first?

Somebody on another thread suggested putting up posters saying a child had been injured and "witnesses needed", might make the perpetrators think twice?

OP - take it this is response to whats been going on around Brighouse/Halifax over the last week?

I don't have an easy answer, but am wondering if taking some form of action would be best (rather than just moving trail obstacles etc).

did you run a mower down that 'trail' first?

Can't vouch for Perchy's trail maintenance schedule, but I have a Roundup sprayer mounted on the bars.

I'm thinking - Has anyone ever caught someone blocking a trail and managed to have a discussion about why they are doing it?

Would be interesting to understand what makes someone behave like this and why they think in the way they do.

Can't vouch for Perchy's trail maintenance schedule

Not a mower.

One run through virgin undergrowth on a fatbike. 🙂

*pic was lifted from google for tree snapping illustrative purposes...but you knew that right?

Can't defend wire although it may well be just kids. We did that sort of thing as 8 year olds to trap our mates.
Logs across tracks may well be horse riders, some of whom like that and it may also be people who wish to slow down cyclists.
Can't object to that.
I'll assume that none of these are on official custom made tracks so to be honest whilst its mildly annoying ( wire aside) its not a problem. After all we all ride sensibly don't we, meaning able to stop in any situation?

By coincidence last week I was in a respected mountain bike shop in NW England where I overheard a conversation between the proprietor, his mechanic and two customers. The customers were complaining about trail sabotage and the bad attitude of some of the public towards mountain bikers. The discussion went on for a few minutes and the universal agreement was that the bad relations are being caused by an increasingly "yobbish" element buying mountain bikes and riding them all over the place with no repect for rights of way or property. I didn't air my views but yobbish behaviour was one of the reasons why I drifted away from mountain biking. Mind you; I also don't ride with my local road club because a couple of members are aggressive and confrontational towards drivers.

I've never seen anyone doing it.

I can kind of understand a miserable git shoving the odd rock or log in a trail who'd taken a grudge to riders being somewhere they shouldn't. Maybe understand is the wrong word but I can imagine them thinking it'd slow riders down or put them off riding there.

The sort of person that leaves the house with wire to wrap around trees needs to be found ASAP and taken through the courts or at least spend a night or two in a cell and the threat of a criminal record. Defies belief.

Almost as bad are the loonies that pull down a perfectly healthy tree or as in the case of around here last week, pull down stone walls that have been there for decades/centuries just to create an obstacle.

Agreed, you'll not stop yobbish riding. But wire isn't the way. Smiles and nods work better

Somebody on another thread suggested putting up posters saying a child had been injured and "witnesses needed", might make the perpetrators think twice?

Agreed with that!^ and motion cameras if possible but basically I'd be looking for somewhere else to ride!

I caught someone placing logs across a bridleway a few months ago, somewhat bizarrely he did after one of our group had gone past but in front of me. I asked him what he was doing and he started going on how his dog had nearly been run over by mountain bikers a few times on the trail, we go fast, blah, blah, blah. I did suggest he could maybe keep his dog on a lead and we were entitled to be on the track but it seemed a bit of a waste of time as he was not receptive to conversation. So I just bade him farewell and rode over the offending piece of log and leaving him to gurn on.

The sort of person that leaves the house with wire to wrap around trees needs to be found ASAP and taken through the courts or at least spend a night or two in a cell and the threat of a criminal record. Defies belief.

It does. Occasionally they are caught too.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/to-catch-a-saboteur-2015.html

There is another story that was in Bike Mag about a very well-educated saboteur that was caught in California. Can't seem to find anything online at the mo though.

Personally I don't think you can stop folk like this but you do need to get them to think about the possible consequences of their actions

the wire is totally unacceptable

The poster mentioning injured child may make them think but who knows
Best to do a scouting run at very low speed IMHO

I've found tree branches placed on the trails around mirfield woods at waist height, quite annoying as its a legal right of way, I can understand logs on the floor, after all it's a wood and horses and dog walkers use them so they really don't want mtb'ers hurtling around corners too fast..

I've found if you pass walkers slowly on footpaths it's very rare they object, many people do not understand rights of way and so being polite helps, a lot of old roads in West Yorkshire moorlands and countryside are only footpaths (ie no horses or bikes), but on google maps they appear to be old Cart trails with road in the name..

Out of interest were was the riding is it well used by bikes,

I'm thinking posters is a good idea. A bloke was killed a few years ago with wire ( had heart attack after) police didn't do anything so maybe this would have more effect

I'm thinking - Has anyone ever caught someone blocking a trail and managed to have a discussion about why they are doing it?

The poster mentioning injured child may make them think but who knows

A few years ago now, caught a chap in the act putting logs on corners in an area that had been sticked for a while, asked him what he was doing and why. He got all defensive, denied doing it and mentioned calling the police : ) classic clueless defensive i-can-do-no-wrong kind of chap, usual 'bikes aren't allowed here' line etc. I told him he was a quite identifiable-looking guy and a local chap was on the warpath after his lad got hurt on that trail recently so maybe he should be careful, rode off. Seem to have had minimal to no stickmen in that general area since, I guess he moved on for whatever reason.

I think these people think it's all ok when it's them alone in the woods, seething with passive-aggressive as they pull stuff onto a trail, put them on the spot or make them think it through and see that they can/will get caught and it'll either end there or escalate. Depends what kind of idiocy it is - wires are a very different idiocy level to logs and rocks etc.

I was moving some logs off a trail when motorcycle park patrol rode up. He said please tell people that they need trails clear for emergencies and to spread the message to others. It has actually been a very serious waste of time for him trying to help a person in an emergency who needed medical attention.
You would hope it would trigger something sensible in their minds next time they feel like dragging lumps of wood about.

Can someone link to some more info on the trails affected in Halifax/Brighouse please?

There was an article earlier in the week about a runner nearly standing on a plank adorned with 6" nails that was hidden under leaf debris. Really difficult to stop it happening, miles of trails and only a few idiots out there, thankfully.

I'd hope that if any culprits are caught, they get done for the most serious offence that will fit, and they get a hefty and well publicised punishment.

Have started to get more logs now on the North Downs near me, no wires, and hopefully none will appear.

There are lots of dog walkers/runners/horse riders all using the same space, I always try and be polite and courteous to other users, slow down when I see dog walkers and say if there are others coming down the trail behind etc. Need to ensure we do not give them any ammunition. Alas, that still may not be good enough for some oiks.

I said this on the FB pages the OP's incidents appeared on.

I've been living in the area now for 13/14 years and have once in that whole time have ever been 'told off' for riding where I shouldn't be (and even then it was a little old lady who by the end of the conversation we were wishing each other a good rest of the weekend).

If these cowards have a problem, step forward and confront a rider about it. Put up a notice pointing out its not for bikes. Contact the landowner. Contac the ROW people at the council.

No, I'll be a snivelling little piece of sh*t and put logs/rocks/wire across trails whilst its quiet to teach "them" a lesson.

https://m.facebook.com/calderdaletrails/

Has picks of what we're talking about scapegoat

Same Dave. Only issues I've ever had are on the canal

The area in question "suffers" from a dearth of legal riding, but the cheeky stuff is well ridden and mostly well tolerated. Until recently it seems....

I think we do need to start riding more selectively. I've had a couple of run ins recently, and if I'm totally honest they were probably caused by riding inappropriately. High speed runs down through the local woods on summer evening, whilst great fun, are very likely to come in to contact with other users and so cause distress. A lot of the local tracks don't have great visibility in their entirety (which is what makes them fun...), again making it more possible to have an encounter. I have never heard of an incident of ANYONE being hurt by anyone on a bike though.

We need to be whiter than white, at least for now anyway. Turn off strava and just go for a ride maybe 🙂

I think for people just blocking trails with logs etc, the best thing to do if you catch them is to try to discuss things with them, rather than reinforcing their ideas about cyclists/MTBers. We caught an old boy doing this once, and just chatted to him about why it's silly to create conflict. He grudgingly accepted we had a right to be there as much as him, and that not all MTBers are arseholes, and hopefully dissuaded him from doing similar again, but who knows. A friend once flattened a right tosser who he caught dragging a huge log across a bit of trail, but that was because the bloke got very aggressive and threatened him with a big stick. I don't think that incident did much to engender good relations. 🙁

Wire strung across trails should be treated as attempted murder, because such actions can and have killed people. The message should be that such actions are potentially deadly, and carry an appropriate sentance/deterrent.

Good shout woody2000.....

Agreed woody, Ive said this for ages. Strava will be the death of tolerated trails imo as people strive for faster times at all costs.

Andy - may be we should try spread that message through our respective FB pages?

agreed, although ive come under criticism before for telling people what to do when we had groups of folks wandering all over the middle of the road on a group ride.

Not 100% sure how to go about it tbh.

that said i have a "friend" who might be able to get a few things laminated at his cost to pop up where we are seeing the majority of issues if we could agree on a nice, non confrontational, way of going about it.

Put up signs saying "do you want bikes banned from X? Come to a public meeting at....blah blah."
See who turns up, and give them all a presentation on why sabotage is stupid and dangerous...or Bombers.

Sod that. Show them the Apaches farmyard safety film and give them rat poison to drink.

Strava will be the death of tolerated trails imo as people strive for faster times at all costs.

Do we have to do this [i]every[/i] time? People are dicks, some ride bikes, some drag logs.

About 5 years ago, some **** dragged a big log length ways to a bottom of a chute.

You only saw the bottom of this chute until you were just about committed.

Cue: Binned it to avoid the log (no way it was hoppable with my skill set), torn rotator cuff, massive gash in my elbow, arm in a sling for a month and a lot of physio. Good times!

I think we do need to start riding more selectively. I've had a couple of run ins recently, and if I'm totally honest they were probably caused by riding inappropriately. High speed runs down through the local woods on summer evening, whilst great fun, are very likely to come in to contact with other users and so cause distress. A lot of the local tracks don't have great visibility in their entirety (which is what makes them fun...), again making it more possible to have an encounter. I have never heard of an incident of ANYONE being hurt by anyone on a bike though.

The vast majority of my riding is cheeky and my rule of thumb is before 9am on the weekend and after 7pm midweek, you'll probably be fine. But I was out with the wife and kids for a walk at 2pm on a sunday afternoon where i sometime ride at off peak and some idiot decides to hoon down the hill towards us. Didn't bother me, but it would bother some other folk who would be straight on the phone to park management. Not helpful at all when we're asking for more legal access.

Started to notice a pattern of logs up on the Quantocks lately. Limited to the dog walkers routes, mostly going up the two routes from Hodders combe car park. There are rarely horsey types in those areas.

Mostly at approaches to trail pinch points and stream crossings. I'm making a point of moving them whenever i have to dismount, or am waiting for someone to catch up from now on.

Apaches farmyard safety film

whats that then?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870326/

I've started making crude jumps out of the logs, scraping earth up at one side. Doesn't really solve anything, but I'm sure it annoys the **** out of the ****s.

The vast majority of my riding is cheeky and my rule of thumb is before 9am on the weekend and after 7pm midweek, you'll probably be fine.

As is mine, my last 2 "incidents" with people have been at around 9pm on a Monday 🙁

You invite confrontation Jason 😉

I saw some evidence of it at Forrest Fawr 2 summers ago, logs across the trails, mostly on the floor which isn't an obstacle really, a few more almost pathetic attempts at chest level which were very viable and not really on 'the line'. It's a worry though.

More recently I've seen a degree of 'regulation' of the trails, what tends to happen up there is a corner/trail will get water logged and turn into a bog, so riders will create a new bit by riding around it, this can evolve into a pretty wide bit of trail in parts - someone spends a lot of time and energy laying branches and stuff on the extremes of them to tighten them up again, in the same way NRW does at the centres all sensible stuff.

I have to say everyone seems to get on up there, there are very obvious surfaced walking paths and few people ride them and not for very long and I haven't seen anyone 'buzz' anyone, wider softer horse trails and a decent web of mtb trails now - which if I was honest would say they're probably getting a bit too frequent now and it might cause some disharmony, but for the most part I've seen very little 'them and us' dog walkers, walkers, runners, horse riders and of course riders all seem to get along - much exchanged greetings and stuff and from my point of view plenty of "no, no worries, it's not a bike trail it's for everyone" because the attitude of walkers seems to be they're in the wrong if they meet a rider.

I take no credit for it, but it really seems to be a place where cheeky/naughty riding can happen in plain sight without much disharmony.

The exception of course are the doggers, they don't like making eye contact and stick to their own salty soiled section of the woods.

@Woody2000- There was that horse incident too on Good Friday..... I think that was a BW though.

You trying to make me look bad Si 🙂

Yes, that was on a BW and it was a 50/50 incident for sure 😉

For sure, you and the horse both stopped pretty quickly. Shame the horse rider didn't stop quite as fast as their horse did.

One of my local loops includes a Wood, quite a large Wood. I've been riding it for over 20 years, it's well used by all sorts of folks too and a local MTB club uses it too.. There are large forest tracks. Single track and most recently because of the very wet Winter another track appeared alongside the forest track (the forest track was a quagmire and sodden mud for months) so what's happened is this other track has appeared meandering through the Woods.. Created in the main by walkers.. Ok, we've adopted it too.

But since the more clement weathers appeared there has been a spate of logs been put across it, I guess to encourage us (and walkers) to use the fire track. I've cleared them off a few times, and will continue to do so.

I fully expect to encounter the person that's placing these logs across the single track, and whilst not wanting confrontation I fully expect it'll end up in a stand off/slag off situation,

I told him he was a quite identifiable-looking guy and a local chap was on the warpath after his lad got hurt on that trail recently so maybe he should be careful, rode off. Seem to have had minimal to no stickmen in that general area since, I guess he moved on for whatever reason.

Ashridge JamesO?

Please, no posters. The woods are generally a mess anyway nowadays without more litter. They will only end up blowing around. Also visual pollution is as bad as any.

Never had to deal with wire but I've got a local stickman, I unblock the trail, he reblocks it, it's a tug of love. I don't think he fully understands how smallminded I am.

Same round my local trails. Sadly it seems to be widespread I've cleared loads of things off several different tracks.

I just hope I catch one of them at it.

Those lovely people doing everyone a favour taking their dogs for a shit, seems for the most part to be them! Dog shitters are the only people thus far (sure it won't stay that way) I've had problems with out riding, they seem to think every bit of public land is for their personal use.

Ashridge JamesO?

Sadly the only answer for the majority of trails (ROWs and cheeky) is to keep moving and dismantling the obstacles. Appealing to those in authority is more likely to result in them sorting the 'problem' by cracking down on us rather than the idiots who set traps.

I'm pretty sure who one of our local trappers is. To construct some of the traps I have seen, someone has to walk a few yards, find a log/stick, place it, and repeat. Some of the more substantial barriers I have seen must have taken 10-15 minutes to assemble. I merely have to stand in one place and launch the logs and sticks in all directions. It probably takes me two minutes to scatter something that took ten minutes to build. Given that ratio I think I will just keep dismantling and eventually the bastards will give up. I also try to break up some of the longer sticks so they can't be re-used easily. It's also amazing how far you can chuck quite big logs using the caber-toss technique. A bit of upper body work never hurts and it is quite satisfying to think I am reversing the effort of a petty tosser or two!

Keep clearing them. We won't go away quietly.

e Mag about a very well-educated saboteur that was caught in California. Can't seem to find anything online at the mo though.

I know exactly who that is..

He's well known for being barking from way back in the day!

He also goes to great lengths to remove any signs of his nuttiness from the Internet as its so well documented!

His first name is Mike & I'll say no more. He's quite liable to google himself & see where he's being mentioned.

If he turned up you'd end up thinking our trolls were a kindness...

Interestingly I was chatting with another rider who I was showing around about this on Sunday. A local area through woods which has been Bridleway and is permissive, has been marked up at the end of last FY by the LA as being part of a trail. Since the new markers have gone up, trees across the way have increased 10 fold, dog dirt has increased and sections of stream crossing have now been concreted over. I speak to horse riders I see around, and there are quite a few. There view is similar to mine; share the space, don't be demanding.
I've not met a log layer yet, but would happily remind them on the quietness of the woods and that they're there for all to enjoy.
There was a spate a while back of twine being stretched across the trails between trees, but that seems to have passed.

Right chaps/Chappesses

I am after a bit of advice.. I was on the Pennine bridleway last night at Piethorne reservoir, near Rochdale/Oldham last night. I reckon this area must be a mecca for mountain bikers in the area as there are loads of trails/routes that start/end/pass through Piethorne. its also a favourite spot for horse riders judging by the amount of poo on the trails and for families having walks (there are several 2-5 mile walks so good if you have youngish kids).

So last night (say 7.30pm ish) there were at least 2 motocross guys using the bridleway!! I had to stop one ascent I was doing as I didn't want to get in their way and they scared the bejesus out of a dog.

I know this is totally illegal as there are several signs up on the bridleway saying "no unauthorized motor vehicles - max penalty is destruction of vehicle and/or £1000 fine)" I've been told previously that the only people with authorisation are the National trail people for maintenance and local farmers who in winter use quad bikes with trailers to get hay to the sheep in the fields.

So what to do... Should I tell the police or the local land owner (United Utilies) or the national trail people? My big concern is that they ride near a horse scaring it or they ride too fast near a family group who spread out (I had one last night) and cause injury to some kids.

cheers

ArnieB

Call the police. They'll confiscate the bikes.

He also goes to great lengths to remove any signs of his nuttiness from the Internet as its so well documented!

That rings a bell and also makes sense. 🙂

I'll have to check the throne reading collection and see whether it's in one of the copies of Bike I still have.

I live in an area where most 'open' countryside is NT land so the trails and paths are all clearly marked. On any sunny day the world and their wives are out and about and happy smiley faces tend to win the day, avoiding peak times is the answer. Almost all of the permissives have trees etc across them and over the years the use of trees just seems to widen the track as everybody steps around them which seems a bit pointless tbh. Ive grown the habbit/hobby of seeking out deer trails, un-marked (as footpaths or bridleways) and usually good fun, some are short and not great, others are bang on. Walkers and horses tend to miss these as the trails often appear to pile into and through the undergrowth.

Ive met many vindictive golfer/dog walker types but not on these type of trails, using wire to block a track is mindlessly irresponsible, it could as easily break a deer or horses leg as tilt a MTB rider over the bars, un-believable

I'm pretty sure who one of our local trappers is. To construct some of the traps I have seen, someone has to walk a few yards, find a log/stick, place it, and repeat. Some of the more substantial barriers I have seen must have taken 10-15 minutes to assemble.

Sounds like me blocking Strava lines. 😈

Although - obviously - the idea here is to route riders back onto the original, twistier trail, and - also obviously - my blockages are obvious with sharp bits pointing away from the trail and will move freely if hit, and - even more obviously - I'm not stringing anything permanent and hard to see across the trail.

Beat This

Scabby horrible ditch crossing in the local woods at the bottom of a gully. The walkers over the years have just jumped across or thrown logs into the stream as stepping stones.
Anyway our separate MTB trail crosses about 10ft upsteam of the footpath and last year we built a really nice bridge using fallen logs and a gravel surface dug from the stream bed. (pics on application).

During the course of the winter, the walkers have started using our bridge, since the gravel means its pretty weather proof. So far,so good, happy to share..

But now some proper sh*t has started putting logs across the middle of the bridge in an attempt to cause crashes.

Tempted to dig the whole thing up and let em go back to getting wet feet

We had a big problem with this where we ride in South Lanarkshire,the guy was putting bigger and bigger logs across the trail at blind spots and at the bottom of steep descents. We put in wildlife cameras and eventually caught him with the cameras and also in the act,his grievances where one of the bikers had hit his dog causing a large cut on its back but the rider paid the vets bill £500. He still continued to do it even after we had reported him to the Police,it wasn't until the Police had over 10 crime reports that they paid him a visit.
Thankfully it has now stopped but the guy in question has a busy Physiotherapy practice in the area doing work for the local junior football team and the SFA youth teams

Mauldslie?

That's the one

I had heard about that from some of the WMBC guys - didn't know that it had got as far as Plod though.

Every time their was a blockage on the path we would photograph it and phone the Police quoting the crime ref number.

I know exactly who that is..

He's well known for being barking from way back in the day!

He also goes to great lengths to remove any signs of his nuttiness from the Internet as its so well documented!

His first name is Mike & I'll say no more. He's quite liable to google himself & see where he's being mentioned.

If he turned up you'd end up thinking our trolls were a kindness...

Just spent a fun 20 minutes in the sunshine removing a big heap of stones dumped to block a bW where it crosses a stream. Whoever it was made a half-assed job of it over the winter, and obviously returned to complete the job.

Hopefully one day it will sink in that, no matter how much effort they put into blocking it, I'll just shift it next time I'm along.

Incoming reports of someone suspending a rock from a tree at head height, on a Calderdale descent !!??

Don't know the details, I'm guessing someone has hung a rock from a branch?

It's silly season.

Somewhere in Tod I think skydragon. F'kin loonies 🙁

just to let you know calderdale council are possibly seeing the rocks in rastrick as criminal damage to the wall.