[Closed] I want to go racing

www.britishcycling.org.uk

Join BC, get a racing licence, enter 4th cat only crit races.

Do some local crits (ideally 4th cat only). start at the front as most circuits are super tight and moving up is hard.

Don't take your best bike if you have a choice, 4th cat races are generally carnage! 3/4/J/W ones are marginally faster, but far safer!

It is quite possible to race and not crash badly. The vast majority of the bunch in any race finish on their bikes unharmed. Don't go into a race with a kamikaze attitude that crashing is inevitable.

You get your licence from British cycling. I think Silver membership includes a temporary race licence that allows you to race but you will not accumulate points. You can buy the racing licence seperately. It is worth doing as by the time you have a few points it will probably be too late to get the licence and get promoted. Cost around £75 all in from memory.

It is nice to be in a club so there are familiar faces in the bunch and before and after the races. You can race as a 4th cat unattached in plain kit (no big logos or replica stuff). The other advantage of a club is the local chaingang. It is often a good way to get a race intense workout and practice race craft. In the NE we have the blind which has everything from 4ths through to 1sts and semi pros. It is probably harder than most of the 3/4 races.

Enter races suited to you. Look through the BC calender and target events. I can only help if you tell what kind of rider you are and if you live in the NE. If you are crap on hills then don't enter the really hilly races. Routes can normally be found on Strava these days.

Enter a few early on, don't wait till June. You can get fit racing and it will teach you tactics and race craft. In March and April it is fairly relaxed as everone finds their feet after winter. Come June everybody has trained and got serious.

Road races are (in my opinion) harder than short circuits and crits. I prefer them and find them safer with less dodgy riding. However, you get a fair few 4th Cat crits that are good if you are starting out as more people will be at your level. My 3rd race was a 2/3/4 classic (The Sloan Trophy) It was 70 miles @23mph and it rained for the 3 hours. I was strong enough to finish but not many 4th cats did.

3/4s are full of ringers - people who have dropped down from higher levels or who take part in other disciplines so don't have points on the road. I rode one 3/4 with a guy who is a sponsored cx rider ranked in the top 10 in the UK. He was quite strong.

Do some training. Get used to riding for 1 hour flat out with regular sprints if you are going to do crits. Get used to 40-50miles hard if you are focusing on road races.

BC now has some race smart videos that are quite good.

Do some local crits (ideally 4th cat only). start at the front as most circuits are super tight and moving up is hard.

If you ever want to be good at road/crit racing then moving through a bunch is a vital skill, so stick yourself at the back instead and use it as practice 🙂

Where part of the country are you?

Thanks all. I'm Midlands based but don't mind travelling an hour or 3 to get to somewhere interesting. As a rider I'm pretty strong tapping out a good pace on rolling terrain and am OK up hills, though being 6'4" and not a light weight means I'll never be a proper climber. Sprints and pace changes are things I intend to work on over the winter as I understand this will happen and I need to be able to react to it.

I want to as well... but I'm still a LONG way from considering it viable yet.

Taking a generic say 30 mile route, some hills, flats, etc, what sort of speed would a soloist need to be getting on an average day to then go cat4 and not be a complete embarrassment ?

This may be a good start for you as I have entered my first ever race [url= http://greatormeroadrace.co.uk/ ]The Great Orme Race[/url] albeit the masters race 3 laps but bound to be pretty intense but a nice 6.5 mile circuit on closed road.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/how-long-to-be-a-credible-cat-4-or-am-i-just-crap-road-content

A lot of good info in this thread.

weeksy, that is a very good question, I too would be keen to hear that answer!.

Me three

It is quite possible to race and not crash badly. The vast majority of the bunch in any race finish on their bikes unharmed. Don't go into a race with a kamikaze attitude that crashing is inevitable.

Of course it is, but the problem with road racing (unlike MTB racing for example) is that you can be the most cautious, sensible rider out there, but if there's another kamikaze rider who's never ridden in a bunch and suddenly decides they want the wheel that you're riding on... you're going down, like it or not!

Re speed: it's difficult to say, you can shelter in the bunch and it's not that hard - but you need the race craft. I got dropped from my first couple of 3/4 races, until I learned what was going on and put myself in the right place. You need to keep thinking you're moving up to stay in the same place in the bunch. Try and stay put and you'll find yourself right at the back, any accelerations are magnified and you'll be trying harder than you need to just to keep up.

Taking a generic say 30 mile route, some hills, flats, etc, what sort of speed would a soloist need to be getting on an average day to then go cat4 and not be a complete embarrassment ?

I think 20 mph would do you. Average speed for Cat 4 would be somewhere like 24-26, but you have the benefit of being in a nice drafty bunch then.

I think 20 mph would do you. Average speed for Cat 4 would be somewhere like 24-26, but you have the benefit of being in a nice drafty bunch then

That's the sort of figure I was expecting... just 3mph average to find then 🙂

20mph? Wow, OK, that is a touch quicker than I was expecting for Cat 4. have a 37 mile, 1700 ft elevation ride home from work that I do in 2 hours dead if I'm pushing on. Am I even in the ball park?

20mph? Wow, OK, that is a touch quicker than I was expecting for Cat 4. have a 37 mile, 1700 ft elevation ride home from work that I do in 2 hours dead if I'm pushing on. Am I even in the ball park?

18.5mph? You aren't far off, cutting tohe route to 30miles should buy you 0.5 of a mph.

Some permanent tracks are available for practice which would be worth looking into.

It just isn't as clear cut as that too. If nothing else, most 4th cat races are on very flat crit courses, so being a lithe climber with a low power output isn't usually as advantageous as being a really strong roleur.

I got a few podium finishes in 3/4 crits and I reckon 20mph would be the upper end of what I could do on a solo 30 mile ride (and faster than I would generally [i]actually [/i]ride), but I had a reasonable sprint.

It just isn't as clear cut as that too. If nothing else, most 4th cat races are on very flat crit courses, so being a lithe climber with a low power output isn't usually as advantageous as being a really strong roleur.

Very good point there.

Worth devising a flat-ish route to test yourself on.

Maybe worth throwing the occasional break/sprint/acceleration/moment of excitement in every 2-3 mins as well.

20mph? Wow, OK, that is a touch quicker than I was expecting for Cat 4.

Sounds a bit high to me - I can hang in the bunch in a cat 3 race (as long as its flat) and I don't think I've ever logged a 20mph average for a solo ride of any distance! Positioning, confidence in a group, getting out of corners cleanly, etc. are far more likely to be factors in you getting dropped than out and out speed.

Worth devising a flat-ish route to test yourself on.

Still think that's worthless, just do a race. Worst that happens is that you go out of the back and you're £10 down on the day.

Unless you plan a solo break thrashing yourself around a flat circuit isn't going to be a race simulation.

So what races are available to have a go at in the next 12months within 1h of Newbury/Reading then??

Lunge, if you're Midlands based then take a look at the[url= http://www.mamilcycling.co.uk/2015-winter-race-series.html ]Mamil Winter Series[/url] held at Stourport.

I rode 3 of the 4 last year, first time. Haven't done any since (broken bike, unrelated to the racing) but may well sign up for these again to get started for a full year.

4th Cat is last on the day, depending on how the others have ran over the time slot will be something like 30 or 40 mins plus 5 laps.

If you can average 18/19mph solo on the road you'll manage the 22 or so that they were doing last time, just need to be able to keep it going for the best part of an hour.

So what races are available to have a go at in the next 12months within 1h of Newbury/Reading then??

Loads! You're a bit late this year, although there are winter races at Hillingdon.

There's a summer wednesday night series at Eelmore, near Fleet, there's stuff at Dunsfold, near Cranleigh (admittedly pushing your hour).

Have a look on the BC calendar, there are far more road races than MTB.

Edit: wrong thread!

[url= http://www.twickenhamcc.co.uk/tcc/are-you-race-curious/ ]My intro to racing[/url]

Loads! You're a bit late this year, although there are winter races at Hillingdon.

Never too late for Hillingdon. You can apply for BC membership and license online, then enter this Saturday's 3/4 race at 1PM. There are three more in the series. Then Points Grabbers, then the Winter Series starts. Eelmore is a little closer and probably a little less competitive. The 4th cats will be getting desperate for those last few points to make it to 3rd, so the races will be harder than the start of the season.

If you want to race Hillingdon, drop me a line, I try and race there most weeks.

If your happy in a group.and can follow wheels then you'll be fine. Try not to drop to the back.

Hmmm- I got my provisional license through the post this week 😀
Never ridden in a bunch though....

Hmmm- I got my provisional license through the post this week
Never ridden in a bunch though....

You kept that quiet !

You dark horse you.

You can practice sitting on my wheel... if you don't die of boredom.

I wanted it for CX not this 😉

So what races are available to have a go at in the next 12months within 1h of Newbury/Reading then??

[url= http://www.castlecombesummerseries.org.uk/index.html ]Castle Combe [/url]do a series on the circuit there, though they have finished for the year. There's also the [url= http://orrl.co.uk ]Oxfordshire Road Racing League[/url], but again finished for the season. I'll probably be doing a few of these next year and am in Newbury.

So what races are available to have a go at in the next 12months within 1h of Newbury/Reading then??

As others have said, not so much this year, but in addition to the above:

There are circuit races on the MoD base at Ludgershall nr Andover. Usually there is a weekend winter and weekday summer series but there was no winter series this year, not sure about 2015

Circuit races at Thruxton - typically a couple of weekends earlier in the year and then a summer evening series

VC Venta and Sotonia have run crits in the Park and Ride car park outside Winchester.

Winchester city centre criterium is a fun one off in August.

Seemed to me that early season, a lot of 4th cat races are crazy fast as there are a lot of super keen people who are keen to move up. It only takes 12 points to move up, so 2 or 3 results in the points should do it.

As the season moves on, it seemed that those who were going to move up had already done so, and the races were easier. The two races where I clocked points to move up to 3rd cat, the pace was pedestrian - almost no more than warm up pace even when on the front, and no one wanted to take it on.

You cannot underestimate the importance of just racing. The accelerations are fierce. Nothing in training will replicate the need to sprint as hard - to stay with the bunch.

And as above, some of the "interesting" town centre crits 3/4s are full of ringers such as elite level mountain bikers who just don't do too many road races.

Elite mountain bikers always used to get 2nd cat licences by default (and higher if you asked). Dunno if they still do.

They don't.
I have cat 3 on the road. I do very little road racing though, 1-2 a year max.

I wouldn't say elite MTBers are ringers though, its a different type of racing, especially if you are smaller.
I guess it comes down to experience. I don't see myself as a cat 2 roadie. Even if I raced all season I'd struggle to get enough points to go from 3 to 2.

Yeah, but surely they have a higher level of fitness to start with?

road racing isn't all about fitness. Obviously fitness is important, but its different to XC MTB.

Which comes neatly back to the point that it's not just what speed you can ride at to make you a contender!

Its covering the sudden surges in acceleration that I struggle with - like out of hairpin bends.

Maybe I'm not prepared to inflict the pain on myself thats needed when the acceleration happens??! It seems I only ever record a max heart rate in the high 170's - which if I'm 35 and the typical rough calculation is (220 - age) seems a bit low. Thats in race sprints, on the turbo, on the open road, wherever. Perhaps I need to try harder!

njee20 agree on all, especially that last comment.
mtbtomo try going to the front often, big mistake to think you actually have to go fast all the time. What I'm saying is if things aren't suiting you, you can get out there and control things a little.
If there are parts of a course that don't suit me, I work to get to them first so I'm not already at the back if I go backwards?

Its covering the sudden surges in acceleration that I struggle with - like out of hairpin bends.

I wouldn't mind betting that this is down to tactics/position rather than fitness.

I'm not a member of a club and don't particularly want to join one. I have however been a member before so am aware of the joys of bunch riding and the politics thereof

I'm getting more intrigued now. Only way is to try I suppose. I can see how being near the front before corners can help but I just can't imagine everyone else saying "oh sorry, yes, by all means go in front here" so then surely, with everyone vying for the front for their favourite or least favourite bit it all just degenerates into a flat out race???

crosshair I can't speak for 4th cat races as they weren't around when I raced BC. But I find only a percentage of entrants are really racing for a place as some seem happy just to finish. So jostling for position isn't that hard, there's this obsession for sitting on a wheel so more often or not they'll just think they're getting a wheel to sit on and let you go. It's dictating rather than being dictated to?
You have to poke your nose out now and then to test the water. Guarantee a rider will do bugger all during the race and go for it on the last lap only to find they've been sheltered from a ferocious headwind all race, ten meteres and they're a gonna.

First time out I worked hard to stay near the front, heart rate was mostly around 185 whenever I glanced down (I'm 42 you know).

Had very little left at the end and managed 8th so took it it a bit easier next time out hoping to finish higher. Found myself off the back in no time from the rubber band effect then cramped trying to chase back on.

In hindsight the best advice I heard was that if you're not looking to move up, you're going backwards...

It's totally fluid and dynamic. You can go front front to back and vice versa within a few seconds. If you spot clear passage as everyone is braking then you move up rapidly, if you drop a wheel and a stream of riders comes whooshing past you can be out the back before you know it.

Awareness and the ability to sprint and hold a wheel for dear life get's you to the final lap. For the last few mins race craft will decide on your position.

@crosshair, being on the front or in the top 10 in corners means less slowing down & virtually no sprinting out of it (unless you attack). Being at the back means big accelerations as you'll have had to scrub off way more speed. It's not that hard to stay near the front, you just need do be alerate all the time & constantly move up.

You have to poke your nose out now and then to test the water

Absolutely. Spent an hour this afternoon chasing down Lewis Atkins in an E123 race. Stayed near the front, worked on the front, bridged to a break, had a little left for the sprint and finished 12th.

Just enter and see what happens. You have to learn how to read a race and when to burn those matches and when to recover. It is mentally hard, not just physically hard. But there is no biking buzz like it.

Have to say it is totally addictive. And the tactics and need to stay with the bunch are almost incomprehendable until you actually race. You can read up all you like, but that first experience will amaze you. You need to look for gaps, hold your own position and watch for other wheels to follow.

I keep trying to get near the front, but the last race I did, there were 4 of us in a break. It all hung together until 3 laps to go and then the two fit lads upped the pace and the elastic snapped and I was in 3rd. I probably finished the race for the chap in 4th too. Then he outsprinted me for the finish.

Thanks for all the insights. I just don't see how anyone who can't average 20mph solo can do any of that tactical stuff let alone chase a break or make their own.
I'm certainly not afraid of being spat out the back but I'd like to know I was at least in the right ball park before dipping a toe in. Keep the interesting stuff coming 🙂

Just do it Crosshair!

I got the same urge as you about this time last year, but up North the road racing stops over winter. Never road raced before then. So I joined a club in the January and then come March, I just got on and entered one.

There's nothing to lose. Nobody else cares whether you're in the bunch or they've lapped you 3 times, you're just another rider. (that's a good thing)

I can only average about 15 - 16mph if its super hilly, to about 19mph if its undulating. But then its fairly easy to keep with the chaingang group averaging about 22mph.

If you get dropped, you laugh it off, use it as a good training session and think about where you went wrong. It may be you weren't fit enough, or it may be you didn't get your tactics right. Or a bit of both.

But the adrenaline rush at some point somewhere during the race or the aftermath will have you coming back for another try.

For an entry fee of about a tenner you just can't go wrong!

Edit: Nobody else cares....so long as you hold your line, and don't ride erraticly or like a nob 😉

Edit: Nobody else cares....so long as you hold your line, and don't ride erraticly or like a nob

Plus... if you get dropped and get lapped, don't try and get back in the race. If you are dropped, you are dropped. There are exceptions, sometimes you can take a lap out and still feature - but thats mostly aimed towards people who puncture/crash, etc.

If you get dropped, next priority is don't get lapped!

Well, went on a road ride with five others today and had a good go at riding on people's wheels. Found it fairly straight forward to be honest and up around 20mph the difference of being 'on' or 'off' was quite noticeable.
On one or two flat bits, I was able to pull 25/26mph to get to the front to take my turn although I was only able do one in three compared to the others. I certainly haven't got the legs for a 2 or 3 minute 25mph blast to make a break but I think I'd hang with the pack ok 🙂

Thanks for all the insights. I just don't see how anyone who can't average 20mph solo can do any of that tactical stuff let alone chase a break or make their own

Well I don't average anywhere near that solo more like 17 mph, but can finish well in the top ten in circuit races that average 25mph'ish.
Our fast guys average 18mph on a fast run, and newcomers have always got their 3rd in the first year.
Likewise the club guys that are speed and Strava obsessed i.e think that speed is the be all and end all never do well or even finish.
Obviously I'm generalizing a little.

Slight edit. I never train on my race bike, rather a heavier training bike. I use cheap plastic soled road shoes and save my Xzelliums for races

To give an idea of what speeds these races can be, while certainly not the fastest circuit, a race I did today was:
100km, av speed 37kph. 1300m elevation, undulating all the time. Open to 2/3/4.

I've been in crits and road races where the av speed is above 40kph.

Until you jump in and try one, you won't really know if you can cope with the speed because its only races that can replicate it.

Average speed of the crits i've done this year is around 25mph. The Tickhill GP recently was a technical course and again I hit 25mph on the nail for my average...I finished at the back of the main bunch with that speed.

Just enter some local races and don't be worried if you get hammered on the first few races as you will learn a lot.

Ps. Jonba, are you talking about the Barnsley and Sheffield Crits where Dieter dominated the entire field?

Appologies to Lunge for hijacking the thread but it did strike a chord with me. I know there is nothing else to say until I come back with a 'Did my first Crit' thread but I thought I'd go and smash my local favourite TT course tonight, HCC201b and managed a new pb of 19mph 🙂
Conditions were awesome mind you but still- it made me feel a bit better about my chances 🙂