[Closed] I want a steel frame how do you rate these ones

For what riding?
All good frames, but RL853 is more 'XC' than the others.

Sooner have a second hand Soul. 😉

But if I was skint an Inbred punches way above its weight. I'd happily buy another. What about a Sanderson Life ?

Did you say Sanderson?
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6856995715_22e2676fcb.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6856995715_22e2676fcb.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/6856995715/ ]Wee old railway shed and a Sanderson Breath[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/matt_outandabout/ ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

Save a bit more and get a Cotic

What makes the Cotic so much better? Seems when ever this question comes up, everyone says "Save up and get a Soul!"...

I don't rate any of them

Pipedream Sirius.

Like my charge duster very much, frame is a keeper just about to rebuild it with u turn pikes as a bit more playful. Was a winter xc bike for a long time.

One of these? 🙂

[img] [/img]

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8001/7217731076_4264f2979a.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8001/7217731076_4264f2979a.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/73773087@N07/7217731076/ ]pipedream 1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/73773087@N07/ ]h4muf[/url], on Flickr

Amazing thing.

Is that a 200mm front rotor? 😯

How about an Orange P7?

Only ridden a 456 out of your list I didn't like it at all. Infact I gave the frame to my wife and got a BFe. I LOVE the BFe, nearly got a dialled but I preferred the colour of the cotic.

Blue Pig is quite different from the PA. if you're looking at steel bikes you have to include the Soul and BFe (love mine). If you're considering the PA then why not look at the classic with 853 tubing

I_Ache:

Out of interest, what didn't you like about the 456 and what do you love about the bfe?

Hard to put into words why everyone says to get a Cotic Soul - it just rides like a bike should!

All the springy benefits of a steel frame, it weighs loads less, handles any fork from 100mm-140mm well and is just fundamentally great fun. I bought a second hand frame two years ago and have done thousands of miles on it, yet every time I ride it, I come back smiling. Thats why you should get a soul!

h4muf - cranks 😯

It is the Olympics 😉

I bought a second hand frame two years ago and have done thousands of miles on it, yet every time I ride it, I come back smiling. Thats why you should get a soul!

It's all horses for courses - if you've destroyed two steel bikes than maybe a Bfe would be better? Certainly Rock Lobster isn't going to be up to it.

I'll no doubt be corrected but 853 is tougher than Cromoly (it certainly air hardens after welding) so the soul may be tough enough.

A couple of mates have Blue Pigs and really like them, but it's a much heavier & slacker bike than the Soul. The 456 is heavier too but gets a good write up. I like the Soul because it does everything - I have two wheel sets for it - for the last few months I've been hammering it around the Dark Peak with 2.5" tyres and on Saturday it'll be a 24lb XC machine 🙂

@del you can most definitely buy a new Soul

They all have Betamax wheels. You won't even be able to buy air for those tyres in a years time.

have had a Rock Lobster 853 for around 6 years and love it - everything gets regularly upgraded and it gets ridden probably more than my 5. It does all depend on what you want to ride though - mine gets used on tight techy natural singletrack mainly and rarely on big stuff. It's my regular winter night ride bike. The Orange comes out for big days, proper hills and trail centres tho as the RL with a light zingy frame and 100mm forks ain't the best for that stuff

I am thinking of buying a soul but have a thing about SS which I am training myself to forget!

however my question is BFe or Soul? Which one should I buy? I am 5 10 tall but weigh 14 stone 🙁

I am not a 'rad' rider but love single track...not fit enough of singlespeed around the hilly Kent north downs I think.

I have an old cindercone 97 which I am thinking of doing up. Needs gears as it is a SS conversion.

Honestly, any list that includes a Lobster and a Pig is a bit too confused, you need to work out what you want it to do rather than just having a list of bikes that are made out of similiar materials.

anotherbike - Member
I_Ache:

Out of interest, what didn't you like about the 456 and what do you love about the bfe?

I didn't like the feel of the 456 in general it, it didn't feel right but the BFe with the same kit just feels right. The 456 felt like a long travel XC bike to me, its marketed as a tough gravity orientated trail bike just what I wanted and it is cheap. The above combined with the rave reviews on here persuaded me to buy it in the first place.

Having said that, that many good reviews can't be wrong. Maybe they like long travel XC bikes, maybe it is does feel as a tough trap HT should, maybe its the magic 853 in the BFe that makes it so good. Both frames are the same size and the BFe seems to have bigger tubes but I find it more comfortable and can happily bash it around the dark Peak all day. The 456 was uncomfortable after an hour in the local woods.

that ended up quite long and your probably not any wiser.

from the 456 camp, price is right...

and the bike works for me as a 150mm thumping HT. I have ridden it all day, did the IoM E2E on it 2 years running though probably a bit too heavy for it really.

Great to get your head into it. They seem to go second hand for sensible too so not much to be lost by trying it

however my question is BFe or Soul?

For the riding you describe, a Soul. Don't think you need the beefiness of a BFe.

Ask yourself what fork travel you would want for what you ride: if 120mm +, get a BFe, if 120 or less get a Soul.

Your sizing is probably a medium.

Get a Dialled Love/Hate mk1 (loads on ebay). Than way you can run SS or gears if the mood takes you. Perfec'

Only ridden a 456 out of your list I didn't like it at all

Yup same here :D. You need to tell us more what kind of riding you want to do, and why you're stuck on Steel...

Hi all thanks for your help so far.I will try to expand on the type of rideing i do.As a ex roadie all i know about is road raceing and tt/s i felt i was getting a bit old for the road raceing at very near 50y/o so i started out on the mtb route now most of my rideing is green blue and red trails but im now having hankering for the odd xc race.So i was looking for a steel frame that i could us for both trails and xc.I have ridden many makes of road bikes from steel/ aluminium / to carbon but for the mtb i have only ridden aluminium and i feed its just dead it dose the job but theres no feed back from the frame/bike, I ride a merrida tfs 700 trail at the moment.So was thinking of a steel frame as i feel i can remember in the past they had a bit of soul and life about them. 😀

Airbus - many of the older design steel frames, like the Rock Lobster are pre CEN testing and in general a fair bit lighter than some of the current offering as they have less strenthening in them (in general terms). hence the trend for steel HT's going from 100mm up to about 140mm, with burlier builds.

If you've come from a road racing background and are happy with the racing position, I think you might be happier with a more race/xc oriented bike. Have a look at world cup xc races, they go through some pretty gnarly stuff and 100mm of travel doesn't seem to be a handicap for them.
I have a sirius and Orbea Alma, by far the most used is the Alma. Just a thought.

airbus

Try a Ti frame, all the benefits of a good steel frame and less weight.

Love mine.

They all have Betamax wheels. You won't even be able to buy air for those tyres in a years time.

Favourite post on here for ages.

Thanks Don that thought had crossed my mind to had a look at a scott scale 40.not heard much about the scale 40 even thou its aluminium and i was thinking about somthing steel 😀

a steel frame that i could us for both trails and xc that has a bit of [b]soul[/b] and life about them.

I think you have answered your own question there.

There's a boy selling a soul in the classifieds just now. I posted to ask for pics...but deleted it as I don't need it and cannot afford it 🙁

There is a 19" Curtis XC 120 - T45 over on ebay [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280931692659?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1202 ]sigh: so many different beautiful frames out there.[/url]

5 years ago i felt the same as you, id ridden quite a few 'dead' feeling alu frames, none of which felt as nice as my '92 marin eldridge grade.
so when i was in the market for a new frame to replace a too small GT i wanted steel.
so, i went for the P7, and honestly, im not disappointed, it rides well, ive used it at 80mm travel (fine), 130mm travel (better) and fully rigid (somewhere between).
currently running SS.
however, IF i was in that situation today i think id go for something like a C456, lighter, stiffer where it needs to be but retaining the ride feel that we expect from steel which doesnt seem to exist any more.
edited for spelling, dunno whats wrong with me lately.

@jambalya
yeah, i know you can still buy a soul, but it will not be the same type as the secondhand one someone bought two years ago, which they recommended. the current ones have undergone revision to get them through CEN and to take the 140mm length forks that everyone seemed to be sticking on the old ones anyway.

@fizzicist - it was me that broke two steel frames, not the OP, one in 853 and the other 635.

Ask yourself what fork travel you would want for what you ride: if 120mm +, get a BFe, if 120 or less get a Soul.

The Soul rides great with 140 forks. I think Cotic put it best on their website: "Where the Cotic Soul covers the XC to All Mountain trail riding spectrum, the BFe begins at All Mountain and takes things as far as you want to go."

yeah, i know you can still buy a soul, but it will not be the same type as the secondhand one someone bought two years ago, which they recommended. the current ones have undergone revision to get them through CEN and to take the 140mm length forks that everyone seemed to be sticking on the old ones anyway.

I've never heard any suggestion that there's a big difference between the original Souls and the Mk2 and certainly nothing detrimental to the ride (some more torsional stiffness and strength around the fork being the main difference).

And I agree that any question involving both a Rock Lobster and a Blue Pig is probably too confused to be answered well! 😉

I bought a 456 last year and it has been o.k. but that's it, o.k.
IT was a very good price but I too wish I had saved for a soul. I had a ride on a soul after I bought the 456 and it was very superior in the sort of general trail riding I do. The 456 is too unsubtle and to be honest doesn't like climbing with 140 forks even though somebody on this thread was using 150. I have been riding it a lot lately because I have had problems with my FS but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Hope all you guys recommending Souls are right. Mine arrived last weekend and it's built but I've not had a chance to ride it yet. Going to have to wait till Friday for a trip to Aviemore now 🙂

FOG - Member

I bought a 456 last year and it has been o.k. but that's it, o.k.
IT was a very good price but I too wish I had saved for a soul. I had a ride on a soul after I bought the 456 and it was very superior in the sort of general trail riding I do. The 456 is too unsubtle and to be honest doesn't like climbing with 140 forks even though somebody on this thread was using 150. I have been riding it a lot lately because I have had problems with my FS but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.

I too got a 456 earlier in the year (the SS version) and now that i've tweaked the build to suit my needs*, it's great. I'm sure the Soul and other names mentioned in this thread are more betterer, but if you can't do what you want on a 456, then it's not the fault of the frame.

* it's a go anywhere - do everything bike.

They all have Betamax wheels.

Wasn't Betamax technically better and yet market pressure from big players killed it off..?

Anyway, on the CEN point. It's a generalisation to say post CEN frames are heavier / harsher etc, not all, some maybe a few oz here and there, maybe not; as an example the post-EN Genesis 853 rides comfier / springier overall than the pre-CEN frame, is also tougher up front and a bit stiffer against bar twist. Seeing how frames flex on a CEN test jig may help add some flex in the right places and not others, new tube profiles came out of it all etc. Many variables.

On the 'which frame' q, tricky decision as there's a good range of them out there, sounds like an XC/trail-biased 100-120mm job will suit you more than a slacker bomber.

The original question does seem a bit strange and I'm not so convinced about the steel is real adage... There are plenty of alloy and carbon frames out there worth consideration too. However, if I were in your shoes I'd be examining the 29er options too.

Aye, agree with RRD. My Carbon 456 is the best hardtail I've had since my Soul, and it rides far more like the mythical "real steel feel" than a steel 456 does.