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I’ve had my Vaya for a while and although it’s very versatile I think I want something a bit more rowdy that will take bigger tyres.
What would you recommend
Budget?
Stooge MK4. Great bikes, live mine and will tackle most things.
Also my mate Joe has a Shand Bahookie, he's very rapid on it dh and up.
I'll add Surly to the list. I also have a Krampus (though it's in buts currently) and they're bloody marvelous.
Plan to buy a frame and fork build to my spec, have wheels and other bits already so up to £750-1000
Are the wheels qr or thru axle?
More and more bikes, even rigid ones, are 15/142 axles now.
I've just gone for a Sonder Frontier. So far so good. I've purchased it for bikepacking, but just managed a couple of local rides on lockdown. It's quick but seems really capable on Singletrack too. Stock wheels are pretty heavy, so will change those I think in the long run.
They are hope pro 4 so adaptable, sorry should have said would like steel
Definitely Stooge then 😎
Stooge
Stooge is something I’ve looked at numerous times but never pulled the trigger, they look a hoot nut not sure how they would fair with a set of 700c tyres popped in for a short local burst.
I looked at Stooge and Shand, I went with Shand as its more versatile, in that it could easily morph from singlespeed rigid to geared hardtail. With Stooge, its always going to be a rigid.
Re: putting 700c tyres on it, this is how I bought my Shand, it was shod with 40c gravel tyres. The mud clearance was epic, immediately replaced with 2.4's!
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Surly karate monkey? In budget, takes boost (or12x142 on rear)
I bought mine to go with some tyres I already had.
Krampus is similar but with fewer braze ons.
EDIT: although, that shand is a thing of beauty
That Shand is beautiful!! Never look at at them,
My word £3500 for frame and fork that’s eye watering
Fudge, I think the website has been rejigged and its a bit miss-leading...in December a full build (rigid, singlespeed) was £2650 and a frame and carbon fork was £1695, frame only approx £1300.
I had been trying to warm myself up to buy one later this year and then found a second hand one which I jumped at, you do see them occasionally.
It is lovely, and its also very fast (my first 29er). Coming from my old bikes, 30mph+ offroad has always felt a bit 'on-the-edge', but this thing will touch 40mph and still feels pretty stable! I also don't miss suspension forks at all, loving the direct feel and no 'slop' in the fork!
Same here not missing suspension at all but the Vaya can’t be thrown around like a rigid mtb hence the change of thought, £1300 for frame and fork I’d still expensive but not as frightening as £3500. How’s the bike on short road runs with 700c tyres?
I'm afraid I whipped the 40c's off, I only test rode it with them!
Surly karate are they not heavy as?
I don’t doubt it but only red left doesn’t rock my boat I’m afraid
£3500 is for the full bike from Shand. It's half that for the frame and fork.
S/H steel Jones would be within budget, a new one at the top end. If you're committed to rigid the truss fork version is an amazing ride, very well optimised for the benefits of rigid+big wheels. I ride mine on road trips with 2.0 Big Apples on and it's not a fast road bike but it does feel natural on tarmac, suprisingly so for something so good off-road. Partly because it's relatively light for what it is. It's stiff too - pros and cons to that.
Planet X Boot Zipper?
Just saw this on Instagram and does look stunning, so had a conversation with Andy and bought a red Stooge, super excited.
Congratulations, welcome to the Stooge club.
First rule of Stooge club is, tell everyone about Stooge club 😉
Okay I confess to be a member of the Stooge club.
Massively capable for what ever you need to do, short blasts, woodsy riding, big days on the fell, long days.
I set one as a training bike for the Fred Whitton, super comfy climbed like a dream, loved it. Swapped to my Richey p29 for the day and struggled, and that was a massively capable bike, I feel that the stooge was a better climber and descender.
Recommendation Stooge.
Was out on mine yesterday.
Really great bikes. Had the MK2 and now have a MK3. Enjoy!
Cheers now to scour the internet for build ideas, mountains closed here to cycling so this will be a lockdown build, probably won’t see the mountains until Autumn or Winter
@fudge9202 join the Stooge owners FB group. Loads of different builds on there and a wealth of information.
Cheers dknwhy 👍
What’s the consensus on bars on the Stooge, mtb or drops?
Depends what you want to use it for.
I've had Jones loop and Stooge moto bars on mine.
Jones were more comfortable for xc and distance. Moto bars are great for singletrack (until it gets narrow - they're wide!)
Not tried drop bars but seen that some like them.
What’s that stooge fork like? I imagine it’s quite compliant with the bend at the end, but my imagination is not an engineer. I’m not keen on the look of it but I guess it’s for a reason.
I got a 2020 Kona Unit. Great geometry. Love it.
Really fancy a stooge mk3 now I went to see andy iirc at his home to ride on a 29+ but had a quick go on the mk3 and it was ace , i even sold my Jones spaceframe but then never got round to buying a stooge doh
Loving my Speedball 29+. Been running it with Geoff bars for backyard bikepacking during lockdown but put the Junker bars back on today to go hooning round the woods tomorrow
Yeah, for general riding, trails + single-track, etc. The junker bars are spot on.
Actually, I've got Surly Sunrise bars, but they are almost exactly the same (same width and rise, couple of degrees less sweep).
What the world needs is an updated Genesis Fortitude. A dedicated lightweight steel rigid 29er. The longitude and tarn are really tubby and overbuilt both around 2.6-3.0kg for a large frame only - i'd like 2.2kg max which is entirely possible even with ISO/CEN regs
The closest you can probably get is the Kona Unit X but its heavy due to cheaper Reynolds tubing.
An updated Genesis Fortitude built around 29x2.6 tyres, longer reach and higher stack for a 30/40mm stem, but lightweight and springy tubing 853 would be ideal, or a nice Tange prestige with plenty of braze on bosses. Would be fab, but anything like that is custom built only at the moment
I lusted after a fortitude for ages, eventually got a used race frameset, didn't like it, not sure if it was head angle or fork offset/rake or what, but front felt very flip floppy and slow/slack.
A new improved (non boost) version would be good. There's a real lack of decent, light steel 29ers on the market.
Anyone got rough build weights for their Stooge?
I'm loving my Bootzipper at the moment. Geometry is great, reach / top tube length is just right. Reminds me of a Kona Unit. Picked up my large at the right time more due in this month I think.
I was looking at the 650b Bootzipper, but Boost confuses me.
What the world needs is an updated Genesis Fortitude. A dedicated lightweight steel rigid 29er. The longitude and tarn are really tubby and overbuilt both around 2.6-3.0kg for a large frame only – i’d like 2.2kg max which is entirely possible even with ISO/CEN regs
I’d be up for one 🙂
I’m liking the Mk1 (29+) Longitude tho, and with some lighter wheels it wouldn't feel so slightly-hefty. But that’s missing the point. It’s designed to steamroller and carry a shit ton of stuff offroad without protest. I suppose it just doesn’t have the ‘yeah it’s heavy but it’s Surly so yeah’ fairy-dust clause.
If you look at the MK1 Longitude test on release it (stock bike) weighed 29lb
according to bikeradar https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/mountain-bikes/genesis-longitude-review/
And the Fortitude (725 tubing) tested at 12.9KG (28.5lb)
A new Fortitude is IMO a decent idea, along with some decent sliding-dropouts, because track ends with a rear-derailleur really, really hate my fingers, and that’s the truth.
Mine is currently sporting a split-persona with carbon bars and a fat lard seat. I inherited the build, and it might not make sense on paper (economical frame and brakes, with Enduro wheels and XC gears, heavy touring saddle) but it rides great for what it’s designed for ie general rigid duties and bombproof load-lugging. (That’s what she says...) 🤣
No idea what it weighs unladen yet rides nicely after shedding the racks, bags, tent etc. Transforming instantly into (literal) gravelpub bike that still keep you upright down a lairy single-track after a few ales. Proven 😋
Come back 2019 all is forgiven.
In the time honoured practice of recommending what you own, Salsa El Mariachi, easily swappable from geared to single speed.
Frame on the bay at present(not mine!)
I do love the purple/plum colour that Stooge used for the Mk3 and Speedball.
Blue is nice too though...
The Fortitude Race is a lot lighter than the Longitude. Both those bikes listed are heavy alfine fortitude and a 2x10 (or maybe even 3x10) geared bike. I picked up a Longitude frmae at the time i had my Fortitude Race built up at the time much heavier esp. as i had light wheels on. But the Fortitude's main issue was rear tire clearance i struggled in the mud with some 2.2s
No fused about sliding drop out as they make light frames heavy adding about 400g for paragons
Genesis seem to have it correct then Jameso left and they switched from Reynolds tubing to heavier gauge cheaper Cromo
Dont mind the look of the Stooge but again they are sooo heavy unless you buy Ti
Salsa El Mariachi- great bike.Again better before the sliding dropouts. But the problem with these older bikes are the reach and stack measurement are really short (even the fortitude) when you are used to a long modern trail bike. I'd have to buy a XXL in an old frame to get the appropriate reach on a modern large frame.
OP maybe take a look at Singlebe bikes? Might be worth dropping a mail for a custom quote. They make some v nice steel 29ers from what I’ve seen. No idea of your budget tho.
If you want 'rowdy' for a rigid 29er then you really want to go 29+ - I had a P29er and built some 29+ wheels which would fit with about 1mm clearance either side, but the 'steamroller' effect from the bigger tyres was enough to make me sell the Ritchey and get another frame - based on Surly Krampus geometry, but custom made in China in titanium (for less than the price of a Surly frame).
What are Stooges like on more 'classic' XC? I still love my OG Swift for pootling around on but have been Stooge curious for a while. The Swift quickly gets out of its depth (at least with me on), but I'm not sure if the Stooge will be as fun on the more boring stuff.
Surely someone has the approximate weight of a complete build
Surely someone has the approximate weight of a complete build
Hannah did a quick video on her MK4 on Facebook recently, I think it was last week. From memory I think it was 14.3kgs. However if you're building one up from a frame set I'd imagine you could bring that down a bit.
Mine's approx 29lb/13kg with Stans Flow Mk3 wheels + 2.6 tyres, and about 32lb/14.5kg with the Hope/Rabbit Hole wheels from my Krampus (this does include a meaty 3" DHF!)
So not a svelte xc beast by any means, but it's a lovely bike to ride all day.
I did a 42 mile ride on it the other day with 5500ft of climbing.
I’d be happy with around 28lbs so that’s doable?
Probably, give or take a pound. My Stans wheels are pretty light (I think 1870g).
Bear in mind it's a steel frame with double top-tube and an EBB, never going to be really light.
They don't ride 'heavy' though. Very playful bike for it's length and weight.
Oh didn’t realise it came with an EBB, no experience running one🤔
Just rotate it to where you want it (to tension chain if SS) tighten the pinch bolts, install threaded BB as normal, that's it as far as I know! if not SS it gives you options to (slightly) play with BB height and effective chainstay length. Just keep all the moving bits well greased.
Cheers yes plan to run 1x11 don’t have the knees for single speed
I'm running my stooge mk3 B plus with a kinesis maxlight carbon fork. Honestly can't believe how good the carbon fork feels. Same rake but 15mm longer a-c. Works a treat with the b plus tyres.
Dove - what was the name of the Chinese fabricator? I think I asked you this before but have forgotten.
OP maybe take a look at Singlebe bikes?
Oh my, I think a little but of sex wee has just escaped, thank you.
If I only had one bike it would be a rigid 29er I crossed Iceland on a Surly krampus... they can do anything
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32.7lbs including the top tube bag with tools and inner tube.
Great bike, had a Mk1 previously and they work very well what ever the ride.
@malvern rider that looks gorgeous, what model is that?
Agree.
It was the first ‘The Plus 29’(430mm chainstays, standard 73mm BSA) according to FB page
If I get to the big six O (and work hard to be a skinny legend) then I’ve promised to (with help 😎 ) design my bad-self a custom rigid 29er and get it built. Didn’t even try a 29er until 2016 yet was immediately hooked.
The above looks like a very slack seat angle, I always loved that but I thought we had moved along?
Plan to run 2.6 front and 2.4 rear to begin with , something fast but definitely a grippy front to run tubeless.
What do you recommend.
Currently running a 2.6 Goodyear Newton EN Ultimate up front, and a 2.5 Maxxis HR II wide trail at the back. Plenty of grip, but pretty fast rolling.
Those SingleBe bikes are lovely looking.
@ajantom cheers for that I’ll check those out, haven’t seen any of the offerings from Goodyear
pleased with my bootzipper.
got it frame only on pre order, so it was cheap enough to not worry too much about not liking it. Its got great geometry, ive had it down some chutes steep enough that i would take it steady on my Five29. i think the lack of compression and geometry change of a rigid actually helps in some respects, it doesn't nose dive on the run outs. Still terrified of getting it airbourne. I'm too used to having 150mm of insurance to soak up the landings, i feel like im going to break my arms off if i start riding drops on the boot zipper.
the whole "new age fun with a vintage feel" strikes me as it making a great "parts bin" frame, so i was a bit annoyed/dissapointed about the boost spacing. I would rather it had a horizontal combi dropout like the slotty inbreds, with a normally spaced bolt through fork. As it is, ive got a 100 quid pair of superstar wheels on the bike and a nice pair of Hope wheels still taking up space in the parts bin.
Karate Monkey on a budget/Giant BMX/Flatbar gravel bike.
andykirk
Member
Dove – what was the name of the Chinese fabricator? I think I asked you this before but have forgotten.
@andykirk
I believe it was Waltly, I have a Waltly frame (purchased second hand from the original owner) which has been great for me...background here:
[url/] http://www.spanner.org.uk/2018/02/johns-titanium-monstercross-by-waltly [/url]
https://www.merlincycles.com/ridley-ignite-a-gx1-mountain-bike-2019-149191.html, I´ve got one, can´t fault it.
@rocketdog was top of my list but like hens teeth!! And Sam no intention of anew production run in the immediate future due to tooling costs.
Anyone got rough build weights for their Stooge?
My Stooge Mk2 frame ebb and headset 3.23kg, fork and crown race 1.21kg cut steerer
Built Mk2 14.4kg with x7, KS dropper, square taper bb, 25mm 29x2.4 rear and 45mm 29x3.0 front.
My Stooge Mk4 frame ebb and seatclamp 3.15kg, fork alone 1.32kg uncut steerer
Build in progress with mostly the same parts....so its gonna be similar weight.
I’m hoping to be around 28-29lbs hopefully with light wheels
Oops sorry double tapped
I like the look of the Kona Unit X [img] 
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Coming from a Dh/enduro background this looks fun. I am burned out with geo, chasing the nth degree.