[Closed] I spent 3 hours sorting a front mech today 😵

There's really nothing hard about it

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Conversely, setting up a new di2 front derailleur on my commuter took 10-15 mins and most of that was getting the cable through the hole in the internally routed frame.

I've been helping the local little bike shop with a mountain of builds (because they can't get complete bikes). We're mostly 1x, singlespeed or hub gear at home so fitting front mechs has been a blast from the past (very few 1x builds because clutch mechs are also scarce).

Fitting and setup has been surprisingly easy as they have a plastic spacer doofer holding them over the big ring and the little sticker to get the height right.

The biggest pita has been having the correct mech - top pull, bottom pull, front pull, high clamp, low clamp, direct mount, 2x, 3x, 8spd, 9spd, 10spd (virtually no stock of anything more exotic). At least most come with shims for the different clamp diameters.

I still hate the damn things 🙂

Interestingly, I've heard people with hire fleets reporting a massive reduction in broken chains with the demise of the hamfisted front mech user....

@Daffy

di2

commuter

thats just willy waving. Get in the sea

Not at all - no cables to replace for the next 5 years! Used to get through 2 sets a year, about 3-4000km per set. I just went back to 2* as i only seem to be using 3 sprockets on an expensive cassette. This way I use most of the sprockets on a cheap cassette. Its also barely any heavier.

Conversely, today I fitted a used front mech to my old bike, used a loop of inner tube as a shim and it worked perfectly.

This thread bugs me.

I am of the opinion sales and marketing push us towards 1x because:

Punters are shite mechanics and front derailleurs need skills to set up
FS bikes are easier to design for 1x
Plus size tyres / lower q factors are easier to achieve with 1x

But we are sacrificing gear performance - range and incrementally small steps between adjacent gears - to remedy or achieve the above.

2x and 3x is still the best for competent bike mechanics!

Then there are the secondary factors, such as the need to replace massive cassettes with short lived soft alloy rings, driving £££ profit in the industry - the replacement drivetrain costs with 1x must be higher given the engineering in the cassettes.

I think big mileage users among you lot on 1x are being dry bummed! 2x and 3x with relatively cheap 10 speed cassette and chain replacement is the way forward for the guy or girl who actually gets the miles in.

I am with waderider. While my preference is for hub gears if I was buying a new bike the lack of ability to fit a front mech would be close to being a dealbreaker. Its also the crap chainline thats an issue

Used to get through 2 sets a year, about 3-4000km per set

Again - maintenance. I have cables more than a decade old with perfect shifting still. Middleburn cable oilers for the win

if I was buying a new bike the lack of ability to fit a front mech would be close to being a dealbreaker

Me too. I've been using 2x for close to 20 years. Tried 1x11, but the limited range just annoyed me. On a 26" bike, I find a 2x9 with 11-34 cassette and 22-36 up front works really well. Don't need the granny ring that much, but nice to have it when you need it. The bigger ring makes cruising on the road much more relaxed than spinning like mad all the way. I find setting up 2x much less finicky than 3x.

After 4 years of fixing, adjusting or replacing other people's front mechs I can honestly say 98% of owners have no clue how they should be set up & thank goodness for 1x wide range gears.

As for the industry forcing 1x on us to make a profit by having to buy cassettes more often, well that money is easily covered by the cost of people lunching their rear mech into the wheel/frame/hanger through poor front mech adjustment/maintenance/cross chaining and chain jamming. Replace chain and cassette v chain, front mech, rear mech hanger, wheel rebuild and in the worst cases the frame.

On a 26″ bike, I find a 2×9 with 11-34 cassette and 22-36 up front works really well

Agree 100%. thats what I used to run. Nice and cheap replacement parts. close ratio high range adn close ratio low range

Cable Oiler’s don’t make a difference TJ. It’s the steer outers that corrode where they’re attached to aluminium end caps. Water gets into/onto the cable and gets trapped between the outer and cap, the outer corrodes, scratches off the slip coating on the inner and the shifting, whilst still working fine, feels crap when compared to new. I commute 200+km a week in all kinds of weather.

Not this pish again.

Seriously?

I fit dozens every week and never have any issues. I'm also 3x on all my bikes, the front mech shifts as smoothly as the rear and I have wide gear range with no big gaps between gears. I can also buy a chain and cassette and have change from £30

1x has its place, but it's not for everyone.

Top tip.

Save time reading this thread by making a safe assumption that all of those that don't need a dropper in that thread, also can't understand why someone would want 1x

😂👍

As a 1x fanboi I'll say that it isn't for everyone and frankly the 50/51/52T cogs are ridiculous. As a high mileage, long distance rider I certainly don't miss the front mech on my MTBs.

Some of @waderider's comments are correct but this is bobbins:

But we are sacrificing gear performance – range and incrementally small steps between adjacent gears

To get between adjacent (as in the next easiest/hardest ratio) gears with a 2x or 3x system takes one shift at the very bottom end and top end but at least two and as many as four shifts depending on the difference in sizes of the chainrings for the rest of the range.

Range: I'm using either 11-40T or 11-42T and rarely use either extreme (this is for the Dales, Lakes and Scotland) so I could argue that I've too much range! (N=1, etc.)

As for the industry foisting 1x on us - yes and no. Users: we want wider tyres; industry: can't do that with 2x, you'll have to go 1x.

Seriously?

I fit dozens every week and never have any issues.

Yes I'm being serious! I think the problem had something to do with the rear suspension compressing. I tried deflating the shock and simulating some sag, but that didn't work on the work stand. In the end, I tuned it by riding it.

@kayak23 😂

Horses for courses. My road bike - now I’m on di2 I wouldn’t even consider 1x on it.

Mtb is always going to be 1x. Even though my 2x10 with a clutch mech was adjusted properly I’d still lose my chain on fast rocky stuff like at BPW. Got boring quickly.

I also rarely link trails with road sections so high speed not a drama. Even in lockdown my 32f / 10-42 rear the hardtail was fine for road bits between bridleways. The off-road I mostly do will not spin out 32/10t and it’s a full steel cassette - think Gx 11 speed ones are about £80 so not wildly expensive.

I am going to give Shimano XT 12 speed a go on my fs bike as on longer rides it would sometimes be nice to have a bail out gear near the end of the day - 32t chainring with 10-51 is a bigger range than my last 2x I think. Certainly an easier lower gear if nothing else.

I think the problem had something to do with the rear suspension compressing.

IME this can complicate things. Obviously, nobody would be silly enough to fit a brand new front derailleur and not check that it didn't foul the chainstay when the suspension compressed, only to mangle it on the first rough descent.

Just cleaning a bike without a front mech is so much easier ,especially out on the trail.
Good riddance to the bloody things.

Kayak23 spot on!

May be it's time we had a 'crabbit curmudgeons' section of the forum. 😂

Daffy

I have cables decades old working as smoothly as ever. But then I enjoy maintaining bikes properly and use plastic end caps

Just cleaning a bike without a front mech is so much easier ,especially out on the trail.

I've never felt any desire to clean my bike mid-ride. Truly strange rationale for drive-train choice there.

As for the industry foisting 1x on us – yes and no. Users: we want wider tyres; industry: can’t do that with 2x, you’ll have to go 1x.

If you want long travel 29ers with decent suspension designs and wheels that don't collapse then the front mech has to go. If you're still riding a 26" HT, there's no need for 1x...

Isn't choice a good thing...

Users: we want wider tyres; industry: can’t do that with 2x, you’ll have to go 1x.

Funny - my fatty is 2x10

Has your fatty got 29” wheels and long travel suspension that needs a stiff / wide pivot?

Has your fatty got 29” wheels and long travel suspension that needs a stiff / wide pivot?

I thought we'd agreed that flexy pivots let the bike Breath With the Trails, because MotoGP.

If you want long travel 29ers with decent suspension designs and wheels that don’t collapse then the front mech has to go. If you’re still riding a 26″ HT, there’s no need for 1x…

Isn’t choice a good thing…

Pretty much this.

This thread has inspired me to get rid of the big ring on my commuter, and shifter and cable. 😊

Dead weight, a 15-18mph average on my commute never requires a 52 ring.

a 15-18mph average on my commute never requires a 52 ring.

@nobeerinthefridge yeah but you may as well live in Norfolk for all the hills you have. Admittedly I'm the same but use the commuter to ride up into the hills as well. If I was riding that and only that day in day out I'd drop the front mech as well (my old Aether ended up with a seized mech for all I ever used the granny).

As said, choice is brilliant.

whitestone
Subscriber

As for the industry foisting 1x on us – yes and no. Users: we want wider tyres; industry: can’t do that with 2x, you’ll have to go 1x.

My bike that came with 4 inch tyres and a double says no.

nickc
Subscriber

If you want long travel 29ers with decent suspension designs and wheels that don’t collapse then the front mech has to go. If you’re still riding a 26″ HT, there’s no need for 1x…

My long travel 29er with fantastic suspension and wheels that don't collapse that came with a double says no. Front mechs have nothing to do with wheels collapsing...

I'm a fan of 1x, both those bikes are converted. But these arguments are both obvious rubbish.

@northwind - does your fat bike have a 100mm BB shell with wide q-factor crank arms? Mine does. My argument (as you well know) was for "standard" MTBs.

There's a legal requirement for there to be a 6mm gap between tyre and chain on retail bikes so as @waderider states to keep the q-factor small then wider tyres inevitably mean 1x.

2x, wide tyres, narrow q-factor - pick any two (non-fat bike)

Considering the typical gettup has no cable adjuster for the front mech it does make them a bit of an arse. When the cables are new you usually need to use some trick to bed in the ferrules e.g making the cable too short and pushing hard on the shifter.

Considering the typical gettup has no cable adjuster for the front mech it does make them a bit of an arse. When the cables are new you usually need to use some trick to bed in the ferrules e.g making the cable too short and pushing hard on the shifter.

Huh? Mtb shifters have an adjuster on the shifter, road bikes use an inline barrel adjuster.

whitestone
Member

@northwind – does your fat bike have a 100mm BB shell with wide q-factor crank arms? Mine does. My argument (as you well know) was for “standard” MTBs.

But it's just as wrong, and the fatbike shows why- 1x is only one solution for wider tyres.

You kind of give the impression that you don't know there are plus bikes with 2x drivetrains?

Huh? Mtb shifters have an adjuster on the shifter, road bikes use an inline barrel adjuster.

I find the roads bikes tend not to have an inline adjuster. Although the R9100 front mech has an adjuster of sorts so maybe things will adjust back towards adjusters.

@hols2 @squirrelking it's hardly a humblebrag, I never use the big ring, even on a pancake flat commute! 😆

Wasn't suggesting it was. But I stuck to 50t even as a human noodle. Just saying.

(this was only going one way)

I got it running fine on the stand and then with the added weight on the suspension it didn’t shift on (numerous) test rides.

FDs are designed for an axle to STA relationship and outside of that the shifting does suffer. The fault may be with the frame design or just with setting it up in a position not accounting for a fair bit of sag.

I think big mileage users among you lot on 1x are being ..

SRAM might never have made a FD + chainring that equalled Shimano's but Eagle 12 chain and cassette lifespan tests as really durable - comes out on top by a good margin in one test I saw. Still, I'd use 2x on anything I ride a long way or on really varied terrain. 1x is about chain retention first and if the bike doesn't need that level of chain retention then the main reason for it is simplicity of sorts from one shifter. A clutch RD and 2x10 is the compromise on my gravel bike and likely would be if I built an XC marathon/bikepacker bike. Just choice though isn't it. like fitness and where we ride the gearing we prefer varies a lot.

Just choice though isn’t it

This.

Anyone who spouts that others are doing it wrong is generally a walloper, ride what suits your choice of riding, whatever others choose for their bikes is bugger all to do with me.

@hols2 @squirrelking it’s hardly a humblebrag

You may not have intended it that way, but it makes me feel inadequate. I had to hide under a pillow for two hours after I read that.

#prayforhols2

SRAM might never have made a FD + chainring that equalled Shimano’s but Eagle 12 chain and cassette lifespan tests as really durable – comes out on top by a good margin in one test I saw.

Matches with my real-world experience, I've had one change of drivetrain with Eagle in ~18 months of riding whereas I was replacing cassette and chains every 6 months or so and one or both chainrings every 12 months or so with Shimano on my previous 2x10 bike. Same riding (mostly Peak District), distance, and washing (or lack of) with both, though I did get better at rotating my chain every 300 km with Eagle. Never really bothered with Shimano given the low price.

 

Just choice though isn’t it

This.

Anyone who spouts that others are doing it wrong is generally a walloper, ride what suits your choice of riding, whatever others choose for their bikes is bugger all to do with me.

To some extent, but most people on 1x have probably spent many years on 2x and 3x so have made it a considered choice, whereas for many who have stuck with a front mech it is more of an academic choice based on what they perceive a 1x to be like. For me 1x is much better for a whole host of reasons so I will happily suggest to anyone that hasn't tried it, that they should give it a go. Much like a dropper post (or suspension, or disk brakes BITD), or, I believe there are putoline evangelists. Pushing the point too far might make you a bit a tool, but I think any pushing of these new ideas comes from trying to help other riders.

I'm a Luddite, I don't think droppers are anything but a luxury item, I have 2x on my road bike and think 52 tooth cassettes are absolutely ridiculous.
But.
1x on an MTB is better IMO. But to work well it does require a certain level of fitness so as not to need those huge cassettes and the associated jumps between cogs.
Saying that though, 3 hours to set up a front mech is ridiculous, get it to the LBS.

But to work well it does require a certain level of fitness so as not to need those huge cassettes and the associated jumps between cogs.

Sorry, you've lost me...You're suggesting that 1x is fine, but only with smaller cassettes? I don't understand.

nickjb, yes, you put it better than me, I'd agree with all of that, it's the folk that will argue they are correct without even having tried 1x, droppers etc that are best avoided.

My commuter has 1x9 36x32-11. 170ft climbing in 4 miles so yeah, we have hills here. BOOM.

I am patiently waiting for the gearbox and belt drive revolution,it's definitely going to be dope.

Sorry, you’ve lost me…You’re suggesting that 1x is fine, but only with smaller cassettes? I don’t understand.

Correct. 1x is a compromise. An 11-52 cassette has huge jumps between cogs which, personally, I don't like at all. A smaller cassette means you have less jumps but also less range. So you either lose some speed or lose an easy gear or 3. I prefer to lose some easier gears.

Correct. 1x is a compromise.

Sure, all bicycle transmission is, Personally I'm happy with Eagle, shifts fine, don't care about the jumps between cogs ( TBH I don't think I've ever thought about it on any bicycle I've ridden) and where I live after a couple of houyrs oin the bike, I'm happy that there's a bail out gear to spin...

Like I said, isn't choice great.

I am patiently waiting for the gearbox and belt drive revolution

I think this has been "the next revolution in drive-trains" since I started on MTB in the 1990's. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon

I spent 3 hours sorting a front mech today

As someone who did pretty much the same last month I feel your pain. The combination of a braze-on mech with a factory-installed bracket (instead of brazed on mount) meant it took ages to work out how to get everything correctly aligned.

Still, 1x anything is a compromise too far when riding; give me 22 gears (with 4 overlapping so 18) rather than 12 and a dinner plate-sized cassette. And that's before we even get to the size of rear mech needed to accommodate said dinner plate

My 1x11 is hardly a dinner plate, 11-42, only 6 teeth more than what we generally all rode with 2x or 3x. It's all a compromise, whatever works for you.

Waderider
Member

I think big mileage users among you lot on 1x are being dry bummed! 2x and 3x with relatively cheap 10 speed cassette and chain replacement is the way forward for the guy or girl who actually gets the miles in.

With SRAM's 11 and 12 speed, the cassettes are expensive but they last a ridiculously long time- like, I'm not even sure how long they last, because replacing them is so infrequent I don't really remember. At the very least twice as long as any standard type cassette I've ever used. And considering the GX cassette was about £75 that works out not bad at all. Chainrings don't last as well, being usually alu and also pretty dependent on being in good nick to do the chain retention, but they cost buttons- less than decent shifting rings.

My other 2 bikes though are just on totally normal 10 speed cassettes. One has an expander ring on it, the other doesn't. So the wear rates unsurprisingly are the same as it would be if I was on 2x.

Obviously front shifting has some implications on chainline and also on wear caused during shifting, but I think it gets pretty much lost in the rounding. Better mud clearance on 1x and never ever jamming or chainsucking or dropping the chain and crunching it about no doubt helps too but I can only really think of that in terms of the couple of chains I outright damaged with 2x or 3x, rather than wear implications.

I'm not a high miler any more, but it wasn't an issue really. A bit of give and take but nothing to influence my preferred drive

But we are sacrificing gear performance – range and incrementally small steps between adjacent gears

To get between adjacent (as in the next easiest/hardest ratio) gears with a 2x or 3x system takes one shift at the very bottom end and top end but at least two and as many as four shifts depending on the difference in sizes of the chainrings for the rest of the range.

To be fair, I think you may have been talking about different things here. It's not so much about gaps between adjacent gears when shifting (where clearly a 1x is more sequential than any 2x or 3x), but more the overall gaps between ratios when considered as a whole.

On an MTB, it really doesn't matter so much (unless you are an XC / endurance rider who sits at 120rpm for 4 hours!) and range is king, but on a road bike, cadence matching is a thing for many riders (including myself). Personally, riding a road bike with a wide range cassette is a pretty miserable experience when holding a constant speed for an extended period as you often find yourself needing an in between gear to match your comfortable cadence. Even the difference between my normal 11-28 and the 11-32 I use on t'gravel bike is enough to drive me nuts if I put the wrong cassette on for a given ride!

It's for this reason that I run 1x on the MTB (which I admit works really well), but 2x on the road and gravel bikes and, at least on the road bike, wouldn't entertain running anything else. Certainly, considerations of how hard it is to set up a front mech have zero bearing on this decision!

TBH I think that's just a thing that's personal preference, but people often assume is universal. I don't like narrow gaps even on the road, so I don't see widening gaps as an issue but I get that others do

(what most people miss is that the gaps between 9, 10, 11 and 12 are actually very similar... The bigger gaps at the bottom end seem huge but gearshifting is proportional so 42 to 50 is a pretty much equivalent shift as 12 to 14

TJ - I very much doubt that a decades old cable feels as nice to use as a newly installed XTR/Dura Ace inner on brand new outers.

As for maintaining things properly - I’d happily have ANY of my bikes compared to yours or anyone else’s by an independent mechanic. Everything from bearings to bartape, bushings to bottom brackets, suspension to spoke tension is sorted on my bikes. I absolutely can’t stand things being out of spec and potentially ruining a ride through irritation.

Watch this.

I find these videos excellent for home maintenance.

Oh the sheer joyous inevitability of these threads 🙂

Some light bemoaning of challenges encountered when setting up a front mech, by people not so enamoured with them.

And then right on cue the curmudgeons start up with their own tireless whinging about the apparently shameful demise of chain shoving parallelograms, and the inferred demise of humanity's technical abilities.
Thus turning what should a five post thread into a 2-3 page slagging match...

😂😂😂

most people on 1x have probably spent many years on 2x and 3x so have made it a considered choice,

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

And then right on cue the curmudgeons start up with their own tireless whinging about the apparently shameful demise of chain shoving parallelograms, and the inferred demise of humanity’s technical abilities.
Thus turning what should a five post thread into a 2-3 page slagging match…

As the OP, I was just having a little vent after a frustrating few hours, I never expected to stir up such strong emotions!

I've gone 1x on nearly all of my mountain bikes now, however the one that's still on 3x9 is my Epic and I'm struggling to see what an acceptable 1x set-up would be on that unless I went 12-speed to allow a cassette with a 10t smallest cog.

1x works fine on the other bikes as I don't miss the high gears all that much on them, but I definitely would on the Epic.