[Closed] I need a full Susser !!

10 pages and 2 flounces 😉

i do not see this going well. Have you tried one of the mondrakers with a longer top tube?

Having to stand up all the time has just taken it out of my legs and I'm just knackered.

Read this bit and do something about it. It won't cost a penny.

Do you want an Anthen with a 120mm fork on rhe front?

😉

40 miles? You've given it a good shot then....... 🙄 😉

Ther needs ter man up lad.
Can't stand my FS unless a day of bouncing down hill is on the cards.

i do not see this going well. Have you tried one of the mondrakers with a longer top tube?

It fits well.

I'm just a wuss really.

No beer.... I've been doing a lot of strength exercises for my legs lately and seen no improvement with my riding.

It's as though my mind can't alter to the fact that I have no rear squish and my body really isn't enjoying it.

For instance.. there are a couple of not massive drops on Swinley red, I'm quite pants at doing them on my current bike whereas I wouldn't think twice on a fully.

Let me just re iterate it's not about how the bike fits for a change. It's about not gelling with it.

So your looking for a bike that allows you to stay seated over drops then.

Also - 40miles is ~1-2 rides, hardly time to get used to anything (or not)

Renton,

Come borrow my Whyte t130 for the day and see if it helps make your decision before you sell the 529

I think I'm so used to having rear suspension that I'm just not getting used to not.

... 40mile old ...

With the best possible intent --> MTFU and try giving it a bit longer, it'll take more than 2 rides to get used to a bike regardless of how many springs it has or what end they're at.

Not to mention that you have to/should be standing up even on a full suss, a bit less yes, but the springs are there to [i]help [/i]with traction and absorbing bumps, not do it [i]all[/i]

Yes I appreciate that. What I've wrote has come across wrong.

I never sit down over drops and jumps as that would be silly.

I couldn't get the landing right and some of the more flowing red stuff I felt as though it was holding me back a bit.

I'm not after 6 inches of bounce or anything like that. I sat on and had a little ride on a t129 that the bike hut had and that felt ideal.

Renton - if you're not happy with it and have some money get a full suss. After all its about having fun and enjoying the bike and not much else....

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/that-time-again-new-ht

Swap?

I've posed the question but not sure he is interested.

I saw this on FB and had a chuckle after the comments on the thread when you bought it.

I do know what you mean though, drops are what I really noticed the difference between a full suss and hardtail, I just have loads more confidence when I'm not taking a pasting through my feet.

If you can afford it go for it.

Perhaps you should give it a little more time to bed in before sacking it off - will take a while to get used to after full bounce.

Would think most of Seinleybwould be pretty good on a hardtail - it's mostly smooth other than that top section that's all rooty and cut up with braking ruts.

That said I tried to go back to hardstail after full suss years ago and it put me off mtb for at least 10 years! Not even good full suss in today's terms - GT lts 1 and Univega Ram 990.

I feel as though I have give it a good chance to be honest done a few local rides and done Swinley twice.

It's giving me a pasting, my feet are dead sore and my lower back is hurting. Both things I never experienced on a full usser.

This is my first hardtail for a fair few years. Thought I would like it but dont really.

On the lookout for a nice whyte t129.

I don't understand...the hardtail makes your legs hurt and a full susser won't? It's just a different riding style and needs time in the bike. When I jump on my ht after weeks on FS it always takes a few miles to adjust. 40miles is like 2 rides. Perhaps try somewhere different to swinley. Which to be honest is just flat and boring, probably the breaking bumps making the bike feel brutal.

What you need is a salsa horsethief...

Oh.

LOL Renton, should have kept the 5 29!

Oh, and 'swoon' at all the '40 miles, you've only had one ride' brigade. 😆

Renton, I've been sympathetic in the past but you need help from yourself IMHO.

Yes the whyte may not be right and a full suss may suit you more but you need to make better decisions. Don't buy something off the back of sitting on it or going up and down the road. Have a decent test on your next purchase - a days ride if you can or at least go around swinley if that's your local. And don't get upgraditis like you are prone to without settling on the bike - all those bits you've added to the whyte won't sell for what you bought them for.

Good luck.

What you need is a neon yellow alpine five 🙂

My full suss felt like luxury today after several weeks of riding on a rigid MTB without once touching the FS*. Definitely need to ride the full suss more. Taken me 5 months and numerous days of achy wrists to get to that conclusion.

*tell a lie, I rode the FS once last week.

Build up your core strength to help with achey back - planks, side-planks, reverse planks, bodyline/holds, etc.

Renton, I've been sympathetic in the past but you need help from yourself IMHO.

Yep I am my own worst enemy mate.

Should never have sold my Orange 5 29 and none of this would of happened. 🙄

I'm kind of the opposite, I prefer hard tails as it's better for fitness and a bit of general strength.

Bounding over stuff like a sack of spuds on a full susser would take the fun out of it for me.

I ride a HT 90% of the time, but for Swinley I take the full suss. There's just something about that surfacing they use there, like riding on corrugated concrete. Take your HT to the Chilterns and you might like it a lot more 😛

Seriously, i don't think you can make a judgement on a few aches and pains after a couple of rides.
You just need to get out and ride the thing, you'll get fitter and you'll get stronger.
When you've done 50mi a week on it for 3 months then if your still feeling beaten up by it at least you know you gave it a good shot.

Renton - if you're not happy with it and have some money get a full suss

This. Nobody else is riding your bike for you, so their opinions of what [i]you[/i] "need" to do, are utterly, [i]utterly[/i] irrelevant.

FWIW - my 2017 Giant Trance 2 is the best £2.4k I've ever spent. I knew before the end of my first ride that it - and not any of the HTs I'd also been considering - was the right choice for me.

Totally agree with Squirrel ^^^

Swinley on a hardtail is awful (IMO). Go and ride it somewhere else on a more natural surface before you dismiss it.

How much? (Serious question...)

I think Swinley is horrible to ride a hardtail round - I'd rather ride uplift venues on it than suffer the relentless niggling little bumps and excessive pedalling, with sitting or standing never being right.

However I should point out that feeling knackered at the end of a ride is normal!

I don't really see the absolute need for a full bouncer round Swinley TBH, maybe if you're looking to threaten the KOM tables? And it might take the edge off of a few rutted flat sections but suspension is hardly a necessity there...

There is a bit of a a different technique to riding a HT [i]well[/i], I'm not saying that I am actually qualified in it, but when stuff clicks, you nail your lines, carry speed, lay off the brakes and do it 'right' you'll know it and it beats having £3k's worth of mechanical damping doing half the work for you...

For the extra effort and cost of maintaining a bouncer... Nah, done that, really not worth it for SE trail centre trundling...

TBF a 529 is probably a very good Swinley bike... Some of us are still riding (gulp) 26" wheels, just imagine how bad our knees and backs are...

But yeah, maybe just invest more time in riding, rather than more money in a talent compensator...

If it's not cars it's bikes. I'm starting to feel sorry for you seeing as you are never happy with anything in your life.

I would echo what other above have said, Swinley isn't great on a hardtail, fast and smooth into rock hard breaking bumps is a bit hard going.Ride somewhere else and take the time to get your arms and legs back in the game.

I think Swinley is horrible to ride a hardtail round - I'd rather ride uplift venues on it than suffer the relentless niggling little bumps and excessive pedalling, with sitting or standing never being right.

However I should point out that feeling knackered at the end of a ride is normal

Probably the heat but I was absolutely done in yesterday.

Renton when was the last time you rode a bike and just rode? Not thinking about this is not right this is hurting,I am not going fast enough, my lungs hurt and so on?

When did you have a ride you enjoyed?

Wyre forest or Glenlivet on my Orange 5 29.

Been off the bike really for two years due to work commitments.

Is it possible that you just enjoy the act of buying bikes more than actually riding them?

No, definitely prefer riding them.

You can't buy fitness or skill.

Aye that's very true.

If you've been off a bike for a good while you'll need to condition your body to get used to it again, not fitness but just getting your body used to being in a riding position again, things will ache/hurt/be uncomfortable for a bit and only time on the bike will get your body used to it,
A new bike will hurt just as much plus as others above have said the transition to ht from fs takes a while, longer than 40miles,
IMO 😉

You can't buy fitness or skill.

Or the right mindset. Renton get whatever bike you fancy next but do yourself a favour and just ride it. You're doing this mtb thing all wrong fella. Forget the fluff. Forget head angles and small bump sensitivity and get back to what riding a bike is all about. Oh, and stop changing stuff that you think makes a difference. It's your attitude that needs to change. Or get an e-bike 😀

No ebikes.

So a change of attitude it is then. Jolly good!

No ebikes.

Actually, I had an e-bike ( http://ebike-mtb.com/en/cube-stereo-hybrid-140-pro-review/) before I got my Giant - the e-bike got me fit again after many years off bikes.

Don't rule them out - they're [i]fantastic[/i] fun.

Or the right mindset. Renton get whatever bike you fancy next but do yourself a favour and just ride it. You're doing this mtb thing all wrong fella. Forget the fluff. Forget head angles and small bump sensitivity and get back to what riding a bike is all about. Oh, and stop changing stuff that you think makes a difference. It's your attitude that needs to change. Or get an e-bike

If you havent crossed other threads, Ive been questioning my own bike choice - but this is right. Wondering whether i have the "right" bike, a recent layoff gave me lots of time to think, and a starting investment into being coached has revealed the obvious; it about the bike. Facing my own demons about my race results, its clear to see there are riders on FS, HT, heavier and lighter bikes in front of me. The problem is then, me.

I rode my Race HT ar Swinley during Christmas Renton. I experienced the same as you - front wheel wash on the man made stuff, a bit of a battering elsewhere, slipped off on a root down the chute. . Lap 2 was with lower pressures and an attitude adjustment, much more satisfying.

So personally my "series" results are ruined but i can still target individual races. I'm now using the rest of the year to focus on technical improvement by training on my race bike, core flexibility and fitness* knowing i already have the gear i just need the mental and physical boost to start to move up.

Theres nothing there a new bike will help with.

*aided by watching a day in the life of Julien Absalon.

Theres nothing there a new bike will help with.

Except the motivation to get back in the saddle?

Cheers kryton !!

Except the motivation to get back in the saddle?

Or is that just the attraction of new shiny things, which wears off?

Just as an example, i did that Swinley ride with Rolliindonut from here. Here rode better and faster than i did on his Blue Pig, so bike weight / geo was a disadvatage, his skill strength, enthusiam and fitness were the real difference.

Again, my club colleague was 10 places up on me at my last race on an even more extreme race HT, so i cant point at FS being the difference there.

See the theme now...?

No, definitely prefer riding them.

Fair enough, I just know from experience that the retail therapy aspect can get addictive. I've changed bikes in the past because I can and because it's fun. Nothing wrong with that, but I then sometimes found myself picking holes in the new purchase, before realising that I was just looking for an excuse to buy another bike.

The fact is that all (modern) bikes are brilliant, but none are perfect. Ride any of them for long enough and you'll learn to make the most of their strengths and ride around their weaknesses. But if you keep looking for perfection you'll never find it. A full suss will be more comfortable, but if you don't have the fitness you'll probably resent the power that gets wasted.

Having said that, I enjoy reading your threads, so keep at it 🙂

Yes I'm seeing it mate.

I totally understand that fitness helps and I'm trying to sort that by doing lots of gym work.

Thinking about it yesterday was my first ride after I have started a very low carb diet and am wondering if me feeling like I've got nothing in the tank was hindering the ride too.

Don't get me wrong I really like the bike and some of the red sections are amazing on it bit like you say the rest of it is bloody hard work.

Having said that, I enjoy reading your threads, so keep at it

Ha ha I aim to please

There were some bits yesterday that I was having to slow down on as it was getting so hard on my feet. My feet popped off my SPD at one point.

I just feel that on a full Susser I would be able to relax a bit more knowing I've got a bit of rear suspension to get me out of trouble.

That said, I don't want to become to reliant on rear suspension and know I need to up my time on a bike again to get better.

Dont let me stop you buying a short travel whyte or anthem* that most likely suit, but again, thats just you not unweighting aka skills.

In sometimes get "hot" feet near the end of races. I remind myself to unweight the bike where I'd defaulted to lazy and I'm ok. Be at one with the bike, float.

*if riding Swinley for fun it'd be my Anthem for me.

As a 45 years young, slightly unfit chap I can associate with what Renton is saying.

I love riding hard tails but imho you have to be fitter than you would on a FS to enjoy the ride as much.

I say enjoy but, perhaps that's the wrong word. I find if I haven't ridden for a while, the ht quickly induces a tourette’s based ride as I get smacked around and swear at every ride annoying bump 😆 .

However, once fitness and finesse come back they are very rewarding to ride.

Still, I have just swapped n+1 for my old FS frame, so I no longer have a built up hard tail.

Main thing is, get the bike you want. What an interweb forum tells you is all well and good but, riding a bike is mostly about pleasure for the rider. Being stuck with the 'wrong' bike is not the way to go.

Or is that just the attraction of new shiny things, which wears off?

Dunno - is it?

Wasn't for me, though. I bought the e-bike I linked to above (having not ridden anything for more than ten years) and became both hooked and much fitter in short order, at which point (after much umming and ahhing about hardtails, which is what I rode back in the day, going way back to a then-new Univega Alpina 5.5 [i]rigid[/i] bike) I bought myself the 2017 Giant Trance 2.

I ride each as the mood takes, and actively look forward to every opportunity to do so.

Full-sus is a [i]huge[/i] part of their appeal.

I'm 56, incidentally. My suggestions, for what they're worth, aren't coming from an experience vacuum.

Full sus allows me to rag around like I did when I was in my twenties (well, y'know), without the beating-up that a hardtail would cause.

[i]Which is where the OP came in...[/i]

There were some bits yesterday that I was having to slow down on as it was getting so hard on my feet. My feet popped off my SPD at one point

This is highlighting to me that there is something wrong with your bike setup or the way you ride? Maybe lower the psi in your tyres a bit, loosen your legs and arms more to absorb more, etc etc?

I've ridden my Yeti ArcC carbon hardtail at Swinley, Bike Park Wales, Basque etc and never had these issues.

If you've barely ridden for two years then what you really need is to accept that until you get your fitness and skills back to your norm then every bike ride is going to be exhausting and not that much fun. Buying a new bike won't help!

I don't get the HT beating up thing.

I don't think I'm some amazing riding genius. I do think a nice springy steel HT 29er with nice squishy 2.4" tyres helps a lot. Compared to other HTs I've ridden in the past, my Stanton is pretty good in that respect.

The one thing I think it lacks compared to a FS is that going down really steep stuff you don't have the same amount of back-end grip, and the front end steepens alarmingly. And it's a bit slower over continually rooty stuff.

A part of me still hankers after something that would cope with that; for now I just accept it, make the most of my dropper post, and hope for the best. The rest of the time, the HT is great.

Renton have you considered relaxing and thinking of your technique and skills, re feet and pedals popping on SPD's sounds odd and techinque based .
Are you mentally putting yourself u set pressure to be 'good' or ' a mountain biker's or are you chasing 'strava' times - you do not achieve the aim/ image or satisfaction "you" have placed on the ride so you look at the bike and then assume it must be that....????...

Try and just go for a ride and bumble/ potter/ amble and relaxing?. See if it makes a difference. Rela,x and bend ze kneesss and armz, and relax.

Fitness wise - no idea what you are doing but it all takes time so again stick with it and relax, enjoy and change your diet as well, if you are only doing relative small miles ( 40 miles in a ride) sorry but there are some mileage monsters on here, have a look at what you are eating. I seem to think you are over 95 kgs? And sit down a lot at work? So look at cycle specific workouts- have a look at Absalom with Rob Warner video, lots of balance work, core and functional weight movements.

Full suss does make you go faster, no doubt BUT maybe stick with what you have for a while longer.

Disclaimer I am 51 yes old with not one vertebrate that has not been damaged in some manner, worst is my neck. Coming back from injury always felt this would help on a bike or I needed this. Been through more bikes than I would like to admit, my problem was expectations? - been a alright sportsperson so expected I should be a good mountain biker - now I am glad to ride and enjoy myself surprising thing is I am faster now than ever both up and down - still hammered by my daughter's and most people but so what.

PS I ride a Yeti sb95but it has not seen 10 rides in the last 12 months since I got a rigid half fat stooge and my Ritchey P29 that is in rigid more most of the time. Northern rider so plenty of rocks.Skill level mildly inept.

Go enjoy yourself.

and the front end steepens alarmingly.

Thats a) becuase its pointing down b) becuase your fork isnt setup properly and c) nothing to do with it being a hardtail.

Hi Vondally.

I'm 117kgs currently and you are right I'm doing a more office based job currently.

I changed my diet last week quite dramatically... Very low carbs, no sugar etc and felt weak all week since.

I find as I get more tired on a ride my technique suffers and then I find it hard going.

I've had a good year and a half off the bike though and all I can remember is loving pushing myself down Glenlivet on my full Susser, really regretting selling now to be honest.

I don't get the HT beating up thing.

You don't have to - just accept that for some of us it's A Thing.

maybe keep the whyte for a bit and give it a chance? if six months down the line you still don't like it then not much lost. But you might grow into it. After six years on a cotic soul I'm still learning new stuff on it.

Your whyte looks mint by the way

Very low carbs, no sugar etc and felt weak all week since. I find as I get more tired on a ride my technique suffers and then I find it hard going.

Fix this and...

maybe keep the whyte for a bit and give it a chance?

I find my HT lovely and comfy. Until the last tired hungry hour of the Buith Scott Marathon 🙂

Diet wise maybe go less extreme.....yes reduce sugar but consider smaller portions and include carbs, balanced diet rather than extreme. Reduce your beer intake if drink up the water. Plenty of good advice on here ( generally) BUT give it time consider the long game 12 months and take small steps to weight loss and exercise, small goals initially. Walk where you can, take stairs, general activity makes a huge difference.

Tiredness do take its toll on a ride but build up slowly, and take your time can I say stop looking back at one great ride with rose tinted glasses and focus on now ish.

A few years back I went for a ride around Ashton Court (which is basically like a mini version of Swinley minus the most fun bits) with a friend who hadn't ridden in months and months and had gone to a very low carb diet. The previous time we'd ridden together he'd kept up pretty well but this time I had to keep stopping and waiting for him and we called it a day after only a couple of hours. He just didn't have the power or energy to pedal like before. And he's pretty light, maybe 11 stone.

Ride your bike more, eat more carbs before and during rides and buy a full-sus if you want but accept that it's at most only 10% of the problem!

Renton, I'm still loving the horsethief. Confidence inspiring and fast. It went to a good home. I would recommend a slightly smaller one for yourself and then swop over all your upgraded parts. By my count the only bit you have not upgraded is the frame, I presume Forks eventually sold.

Buy a Full Suss frame, your frame is desirable and whole thing might just cost £300. Good luck with process.
I have had a whyte M109 and sold it to a mate, fast thing also, mate delighted with the £600 price tag. M129 might be perfect for you, but I would get the SRP version.

Have to agree with previous opinions- IT'S NOT THE BIKE. I've had several hardtail in recent yrs as well as having full suss at the same time. Notably a Stanton Sherpa and a Salsa Horsethief and it's all about technique and fitness, I was as fast on the Sherpa as I was on the Horsethief but yes your right in that for epic days out the comfort of the Horsethief won. To be honest 50 miles on your hardtail is more of a shakedown distance for me, give the bike and you a chance to gel. But if your hearts not in it just bin it and get a full suss!!!

Hi Wally, glad you are enjoying the Horsethief.

To be honest if it was an inch shorter in the seat tube it would still be here now.

I notice you've mentioned you are on strava. How many miles, hours, feet of climbing have you done this year so far?

The gym is great but you cannot beat the real thing.

Unless you have another bike 40 miles in 3 months just isn't enough.

Hells' teeth, we did 40 miles yesterday! Just get the bike out and ride it- to the shops, around the block, to a friend's and back. Bimble. Do some skids and wheelies and stop thinking about being a mountain biker or strava times or geometry or your heart rate or whether you need flats or SPuDs to watch the downhill on the telly or any of the other shite that is supposed to be relevant because it's not.

I'm thinking I prefer a hardtail for jumps and drops, the steady geometry gives me a bit more of an idea of body position and stuff. At least that's what I'm telling myself, riding full suss for a few years now and seemed to be happier on the hardtail for this kind of thing.

whether you need flats or SPuDs to watch the downhill on the telly

This is mind boggling.

You weight 18 stone, are on a weird low intake diet and haven't ridden for 2 years, of course everything feels shit.

Just chill out and go for a ride.

As others suggest - you need to find the joy in riding. Last year I got wrapped up in Strava etc and it was great. Lots of miles, flying, feeling fantastic. This year is different, ridden much less, can't find the satisfaction in numbers that I did last year (as they are all %h1t) BUT I'm still getting out, ignoring numbers, taking it easy on my local trails with a rigid bike.

If I were you I'd just get out and ride, and if you still feel the same swap out the frame (don't know you well enough to know what the upgrades are, but at least that way you'll get the use out of them).

I also don't ride Swinley, but there are some rides that HTs do give you more of a battering on - it sounds like it's flat-ish, which means you'll be wanting to pedal a lot, and if it's bumpy that gets tricky on an HT. Bouncing off rocks whilst freewheeling might not be good for the back wheel, but a nice steep up/steep down ride suits an HT much better than bumps on the flat.

Anyway, ride more (on whatever bike you want), sounds like you go to the gym, could you do that less and do some local riding more? Even if it's just messing about on fairly straightforward stuff in the woods, pedal hard enough and it'll get fun.

Agree with what giantalkali says up there, and then there is this -

Hi Wally, glad you are enjoying the Horsethief.

To be honest if it was an inch shorter in the seat tube it would still be here now.

There is no way anyone who does the low number of miles on bike that you do can be conditioned to notice an inch of a difference, Not a chance.

You're looking to buy yourself into being a MTBer, it doesn't work, get the pedals turning.

I rode Swinley for the first time last week on my Giant XTC carbon hardtail. I absolutely get what you mean about feeling beaten up although I didn't help myself by having 45psi in the back tyre 😳
(I'd checked the sealant the day before, pumped it hard to seat it and forgot to unpump it). I also didn't help myself by riding with a chap in road team kit on a race 29-er, so I was going a bit harder than I would have normally done. Once we'd parted company and I relaxed a bit, it all became much more enjoyable. If I went again, I'd take the XTC (with sensible tyre pressures) rather than my Jeffsy, which would certainly be more comfortable, but the 780mm bars would be a pain in places and the length would be awkard in Labyrinth.

No beer.... The seat tube was too long to get the dropper post low enough so as my legs weren't over extending whilst pedaling.
I could of got rid of the dropper but really like them.

Hence if it was an inch shorter in the seat tube it would of been ideal.