[Closed] i hate my brakes!!

sounds like they both needed bleeding? they bled the rear to fix it but not the front, then the front needed doing still?

Sounds more like brake pad "knock off" to me. Look it up...no time to explain 😀

How many times do you need to keep bleeding these damn things? like i said it was working before so wouldn't give me reason to bleed again.

brake pad knock off?

i had the same problem. I also took them to a bike shop but at ~ £30 for a rebuild I opted to replace (new pad, new disc, new caliper for £60 it didn't seem worth trying to fix then).

After a while I realised I was replacing them about every 10 months and they were essentially disposable. Then I replaced them with Shimano and now I am happy.

Correct me if im wrong, but if you buy brakes off of Rose Bikes, they will be back to front continental style, ie left lever does front brake?

Avids are on my Canyon they are a great brake when they work,just tried fitting some new pads could not get them in as the piston will not push back enough! going to try and open the bleed hole on my lever to see if loosing a bit of fluid will help!

Rich

Just to really help you, that's exactly how I feel about my SLXs.

Yes, brakes from Rose are Euro/USA style - right hand is rear. not a hard job to swap over tho...

My Juicy 3s ran for 3 years with only pads replaced. They eventually got eaten by road salt/muck (they were on my commuter). That said, I didn't really get on with them (stupid pad clips/rubbish pad design/crap finish/stupid tri-align etc).

Now running Deore M596 both ends and they are fantastic! Shimano have definitely got their act together with the new line of brakes. The lever feel is not quite as good as my M4s on my 456, but the power is comparable. Considering the cost difference the M4s are starting to look daft.

Avids are also a pain to bleed, which isn't as good when they go wrong as often as they do (I think I was lucky).

Can't help with the Avid's i'm afraid but I am a big fan of Formula brakes - I run K24 Oro's on all my bikes (differing rotor size!), which cope admirably with everything from xc racing to the Mega.

They come up cheaply every so often on fleabay etc 🙂

I'm getting that was with my elixir 7s on my mega - I've tried to like them, i really have but they're just driving me nuts.

I've got an old set of Deores in the shed that are lurking like the beetle in the top gear african challenge thing...

Just ordered slx brakes from rosebikes (tried to do a cheeky price match with evans but they weren't having it)

Sounds like they haven't been bled very well? Or they are faulty.

I've got a pair of Elixirs on my Stumpjumper that have been no problem at all.

I recently ditched the Juicys from my Inbred & couldn't decide between Elixir (so I only need one type of pad for both bikes) or slx/xt. In the end I went for Elixir & they are also fine....probably 6 months old now.

They do seem to be problematic though with lots of unhappy owners. Maybe they suffer quality control issues, so it's just a lottery whether u get a good pair or not.

Probably a bit late now but I've had no end of problems with my new slx brakes and will probably be getting rid soon and going back to avid. Somehow even fiddlier bleed (i am using the epic bleed kit though) and i don't like where the bite point is, plus the levers look crap. I also have a leaky hose at the lever end of my rear one so i cant even bleed it properly. Also the brand new one cracked at the piston when i pushed them back out (screwdriver between the pads), meaning a warranty replacement was required. Not impressed tbh. Whilst avid seem to need regular bleeding and lubing on the pistons I've somehow found em more reliable!

i dont know why anyone would contemplate buying avid brakes...since they've been swallowed up by SRAM...they have gone backwards massively.
i've been running a hope 6ti and mini8 on my DH bike for 7 years...ive never had anything go wrong with them.
my freeride bike which i sold last year had a hope mini mono and shimano deore set up, again no problems (oh how i miss that bike - damn you wifey for making me sell it!)
my hardtail up until last weekend had been running a hayes 9 and magura julie set up. again no problems apart from the seals finally dying on the julies, so rather than get them repaired it was the perfect opportunity to look for a new back brake...i managed to source a formula extreme fr which seems to do the job, but avid brakes? no thanks, i'd rather not have any brakes on the bike than stick avids on.

Avid are a bit of a faff to bleed, but when done I find they are plenty good enough. Being a mincer I need good brakes .

There do seem to be a lot of Avid haters out there. Just to balance things out a bit, love my avid brakes. Got two sets of Elixir CR and one Juicy 7.

Ok, the Juicys did need bleeding quite a bit and were a faff when it came to pad changing, but the Elixirs have been brilliant.

One thing I did find is that the Juicys don't like it if you store the bike hung up or upside down. I don't tend to do that so don't know if it's still a problem with the elixir.

I had them on my stumpjumper. Always bleeding and seemed to spend my life trying to get the spacing right without rubbing.

Eventually bit the bullet and took the pistons out. There was a tiny bit of swarf from the piston inside the chamber. Cleaned it out and made a big improvement. Then sold the bike and got a new one with Shimano brakes which have been brilliant.

The only avids I use now are BB7 cable ones. Juicys put me off their hydraulic range for life. That said I have had issues with some shimanos but not nearly as many.

I persevered with Juicy 7's for a few years, and then just gave up and sold them. Total PITA, lots of maintenance and the 'tool-free' design might be fine in a dry environment, but not here.

Although I have a theory that anyone who says Avids are no problem, don't actually ride much, especially when its wet/muddy etc 🙂

I've been Elixir r's for about 3 years now without even bledding them once! maybe i will the problems will start once they've been bled but until now they've been faultless (touch wood).

I ride a bit of DH on this bike and i'm a fat knacker so i need decent brakes!!

since they've been swallowed up by SRAM...they have gone backwards massively.

SRAM bought them in 2004, the same year the Juicy 7 (their first hydraulic brake) was introduced...

SLX arent with out problems, i got rid of mine as they just did not provide consistent power. It would appear that the hose leaks and covered the pad with oil. So much, that the rear brake ran dry of fluid on 2 occasions. I had a similar issue with a set of deores before that.

Anyone who can recall pre-SRAM Rockshox forks will probably agree that since takeover they've been massively improved.

I don't really get on with Juicys, they're not terribly well finished and bleeding them is a PITA compared with Hope. They're often very cheap though.

I've had no end of problems with my new slx brakes and will probably be getting rid soon and going back to avid

I'm sorry citizen, you must be imagining things, everyone knows that shimano brakes are "fit and forget". Please report for re-education immediately.

i like my Avids,not had any problems with them.Try naming them and talking to them in a soothing voice.Mine are called Bert&Ernie.

since they've been swallowed up by SRAM...they have gone backwards massively.
SRAM bought them in 2004, the same year the Juicy 7 (their first hydraulic brake) was introduced...

Friend has a set of old saints. He hasn't done anything with them in 3 years. He's been on the same set of pads for 2 alps trips!!

Hang on he only rides twice a year and weighs about as much as my left testicle.

I agree Avids are a pain to finess get them working though and they are blinding perhaps if you looked after your bike a bit more you would not have this problem? ❓

Here's a summary of my brake experiences through the shop:

Avids -- PITA to change pads as the pistons don't like being pushed back and often difficult to get sensible lever travel

Hayes -- faff to change pads and push pistons back on older brakes

Hope -- horrendous pivot wear on older levers

Shimano -- very occasional leak issues but nice to work on, rapid pad wear in sloppy conditions with older brakes

Tektro -- levers can be easily accident damaged but no other problems

If I was buying brakes for myself they'd be either Shimano or maybe the lightweight offerings from TRP (the posh wing of Tektro).

The only brakes I will have on my bikes are formula... i have heard of a very few compliants regards judder that has been down to the disc but that is it.

Ran old Oros for many years, 6 maybe, never touched them, R1 are great and have never failed and I have RX which also have never failed.

Slowly replacing them all with The One as they are light and powerful, not grabby but excellent modulation.

Avids are bin fodder, period.

Hope look nice.... I have had problems with them in the Alps.

Shimano had a good period of making reliable solid performers but last years range took a step backwards in terms of reliability.

Magura are not a UK brand but I like them.

All my opinions are based on using stuff and or feedback from a large group of riding buddies.

Hope your SLX prove ok.... and enjoy smashing up those Avids!!

The only thing wrong with Formulas is getting them to allow the pistons to move back enough so i don't get any binding on the brakes at all.

If anyone has any tricks/tips for this on the Formulas i'd appreciate it, would save me spending £300 tomorrow on some HOPE Evo's LOL.

Exact same problem with my (what were) new Elixer 5's. They had a bad batch where they'd never hold a decent bleed. i ended up binning them and buying R1's which are mega.

Don't get Magura MT8's either, they're poop (and stupid money).

He hasn't done anything with them in 3 years. He's been on the same set of pads for 2 alps trips!!

Shimano brakes are undoubtedly the best brakes but unless your friend doesn't touch the brakes I think this may be an embellishment of the truth.

I like my elixir 5's.

Weeksy which Formula do you have... I haven't had this problem.

perhaps your set have a touch too much fluid in and that is stopping the pistons going all the way back.

We do have quite a few sets of brakes in this house, most of which are Avids, we have had more problems with the Elixirs than the Juicys, enough to make me think about SLXs but having lots of sets makes switch over a challenge.
But on another note the Juicy 7s on my single speed, my most used bike, have not been touched for 6-7 years and are perfect!

I agree Avids are a pain to finess get them working though and they are blinding perhaps if you looked after your bike a bit more you would not have this problem?

I do.. I take it to people that know what they're doing 😉

Shimano brakes are undoubtedly the best brakes but unless your friend doesn't touch the brakes I think this may be an embellishment of the truth.

only very slightly.. but i do know he hasn't had them bled once and doesn't change pads. Me on the other hand?!

Even from this thread alone it seems avids get a resounding PITA tag add to that the mechanics i've spoken to saying they hate avid's with avengence and are always in for bleed,seals, rebuilds and shimano is in the minority I feel I don't want to peserve anymore

I'll let you know how my slx's fare

I had a set of Elixir Rs on my bike when I bought it, they were fine to be honest. I've since upgraded then to Formula R1s which are fantastic.

Avid's do seen to have a reputation for being difficult to bleed, funnily enough we've never had any problems. Luck of the draw?

Mbnut - Member
Weeksy which Formula do you have... I haven't had this problem.

perhaps your set have a touch too much fluid in and that is stopping the pistons going all the way back.

I've had K18's, k24's and a Mega. The Mega is currently the worst for this i've had, i have been thinking about it since this thread and may try swapping the rotor off for a thinner one.... i don't think it's a Formula rotor.

I've just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

Mine *were* great, but have become increasinly difficult to bleed and go spongy pretty quickly. I'm fed up too.

Maybe theres an internal seal thats weak or degrading over time?

Problem is the discounts on new sets, and RRP for spares, means its usually cheaper buying a new set and selling the old one for spares.

I have a really old set of Juicys that have worked fine for ages too, apart from the fiddly pad change.

Mine *were* great, but have become increasinly difficult to bleed and go spongy pretty quickly. I'm fed up too.

Maybe theres an internal seal thats weak or degrading over time?

yep, same as my experience. When they're sorted they are amszing but degrade. Mechanic in skyline cycles said the seals are rubbish and perish often due to the dot fluid

I say embrace the maintenance. Try not taking brakes to shops. You may actually save time and money when you are familir with a system. Avids are not that user friendly when it comes to servicing compared to others. Find a system thats easy to maintain such as hope and keep on top of the maintenannce with planned preventative maintenance. If you love your sport it's time well invested. You might even enjoy doing it!

Strange the problems we seem to be having with Avids. Have got some Juicy carbons, 2 x J3s, Elixir 5s, some M596s and some M785s and you know, they are all [i]the same[/i]

Some of them feel different and some setups are more powerful than others but the brake + caliper 😕 ...I just pull the lever and I slow down. Over and over and over again until the pads wear out, then I put some fresh ones in and repeat.

The 596s needed bleeding from new but the others...one of the J3s is four years old and has needed no attention apart from infrequent cleaning and a steady diet of pads

[i]I've had K18's, k24's and a Mega. The Mega is currently the worst for this i've had, i have been thinking about it since this thread and may try swapping the rotor off for a thinner one.... i don't think it's a Formula rotor.

I've just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.[/i]

That's the problem I had with Juices before I ditched them. Formula's run pretty close but only scrape when it's wet and gritty.

I've have K18, K24, Original Mega, and RX.
The K18s are fine but they are the least used.
K24s needed bleedy quite often and the levers were slow to return.
Megas are amazing when working BUT often have massive lever travel before anything happens (even with the adjuster set for min movement). 2 LBSs have looked at them a both have said that a bleed is not needed and to just take out the wheel occasionally and pump the lever a bit and replace wheel. This works but only for a ride or two.
RXs are pretty new and work well but have just started to need resetting every now and again like the Megas.
I would go to Shimano but I irrationally like all my bikes to have the same brake brand.

Mr Blobby + 1
Avid Juicy 7's and Elixir CR, yes faff to bleed right but once a year job and no worries in between

My son had Juicys on his Felt which never worked properly from brand new despite many trips back to the shop. He eventually replaced them with Formulas which have been no trouble. A riding mate ditched Juicys because of endless problems but replaced them with Elixirs. Every ride involves some faff with his brakes. How have Avid got away with such negative feedback? Is it because they do really good prices for OE?
I certainly can't see why anybody would actually buy any.

Although I have a theory that anyone who says Avids are no problem, don't actually ride much, especially when its wet/muddy etc

I don't ride much at the minute but I used my Juicy 5s for the majority of a season of riding every day in Whistler and all I had to do in that time was replace the pads.. not bad at all for a set of 2nd hand brakes I bought in about 2008 imo (and I didn't even bother bleeding them before I went)! Compare that with the brand new Shimano that has only ever seen Woburn/Chicksands and already having major problems..

Sell them on EBay and buy either Shimano or Magura. Both great brakes that are easy to bleed and work well in all conditions. I've got both and had no issues with either, the Maguras haven't been touched for 3 years done 2 trips to the alps and the only thing they've had is new pads.

Maguras are good brakes...they also back them up with a 5 year leak proof warranty on the levers, cylinders and caliper.
i ran a julie as a rear brake for about 9 years on the original seals before it finally gave up the ghost last weekend.

The old Avis story

Im convinced that all Avid/SRAM stuff is made to keep the market afloat. You can tell by how cheap they sell build kits to manufacturers, hence why all the good deals (on paper) are kitted out with SRAM build kits. Anyone who buys it to retro fit is paying massively over the odds for what its actually worth compared to Shimano who hold their price accross the board.

Basically sometimes you hit lucky with Avid brakes, mosly you dont so use them till they die, bleed them and let some mug buy them on ebay and replace with Shimano.

Once the love has been let out thats it, just get shot!

For further evidence just look at a group of riders bikes who ride lots for example in the peaks but arent riddled with funds, 9 out 0r 10 will run Shimano drive and brakes, Maxxis tyres, Hope hubs, Mavic rims, etc.

Its not coincidence, it tried and tested and surprisingly doesnt come fitted a=on build kits as its a premium product that wont need replacing so does shops no good and costs more to build into a new bike

i have liked formulas all the way but the new R1 race set i have refuse to work properly and all the movement in the pads is one sided(same side front and back). tried everything and cant get them to work equally or even close. seems to be a common problem. i emailed formula but lazy ****s never replied.

I detest my mk1 SLXs. Bought them as a replacement for my mk2 XTs which were bonkers good and thought new SLXs would be even better. How wrong.

Hard to bleed, power is well down vs the old XTs, difficult to adjust to get the right bite point. Going to palm them off on some poor unsuspecting sap on the classifieds soon I think...

I've just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

Here you go weeksy, I did this a few months back on some of my rotors:

Avid - 1.80
Formula - 1.75
Alligator - 1.74

didnt have a shimano rotor about but it'll be in same ballpark.

The original Avids were designed by Formula, and were mechanically identical - so much so that I used the (far better) Avid bleed kit on my Formulas for years.

No experience of Avids, but Formulas responded really well to being bled very carefully and methodically. Pinkbike has an excellent video guide.

I've used Hope for yonks (C2, O2, Mini, Mono Mini) Formula (K18 and K24) and most recently Shimano (SLX and Deore). Bang for buck, the Shimanos work very well indeed for me - I've just bought a pair of the new Deores for a new build, because I couldn't justify the extra cost of the more expensive sets out there. Formulas were a rather involved brake to bleed, Hope was excellent, but you could get spares for everything for a reason - C2 and O2 were as reliable as all get-out (I used them in the Alps very successfully, with minimal faff), but the Mini in particular was a pain. Mono Mini a significant improvement, and possibly my favourite brakes.

My Experiences:

Avid Juicy 7s: Worked almost flawlessly for 5 years although rear one now requires a bleed. Pads fiddly to change, especially out on the trail in sh*tty weather but which brakes aren't?

Elixirs: worked fine for a year til I did a week in the alps. I bled the rear brake and its again working perfectly with no issues. Pads much easier to change than the juicys.

fenred - Member

I've just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

Here you go weeksy, I did this a few months back on some of my rotors:

Avid - 1.80
Formula - 1.75
Alligator - 1.74

didnt have a shimano rotor about but it'll be in same ballpark

Thank you... Not convinced that's enough of a difference either way for that to be the issue. Even if i push the pistons back, i then get say 0.5mm either side of the rotor. Once i pull to bring it back in, it's down to microns.... almost impossible to get no rub/binding.

Must admit I sypathise with the OP.

Got Elixier 3's on mine, love the brakes when working, not really had much to compare with though. But I have had them for about 6 months and had to bleed them 2-3 times already. 1st time my fault to be fair.

But Bled the back brake recently and it didn't work at all (before or after), so thought it was a problem with them, took back to shop where I bought the bike from and they bleed it for me and was more successful than I was. Saved me a small fortune, as I was prepared to buy a new set of Shimano SLX or XT's. (still cost £30.00)

any way two more rides since being bleed and the same back brake has gone all mushy again??

Still under warrenty, but don't want to be with out a brkae while they are sent away to get fixed again, and Yes £30.00 or so each time they need bleeding I can live without. Don't know why they didn't work when I tried it, it isn't like I haven't done is successfully before.

Ahhh feel better for getting that off my chest. until my next ride that is 😕

well considering you can buy Deores for £35 on Merlin you only saved a Fiver and still have crap brakes 😉

Why do I keep reading the thread title as "I rate my hakes"?

I know it's not going to be about his pet fish 🙁

Pads fiddly to change, especially out on the trail in sh*tty weather but which brakes aren't?

shimano.

Ahahaha - As soon as I read the thread title - I thought Avid Elixirs; I was right 😛

I have elixir 5's and they can be a pain at times. I want some hopes, my only issue with shimano's is that I can't take them apart.

Heres a tip, ride with new pads for four to five rides, when you are home change for new pads, put part worn pads in your trail pack so when needed to change on trail they'll slot straight in, and they will bed in very quickly too

You wont be dissapointed with the slx , they're superb .
A different league from most elixirs i've ridden .

My older SLX's leaked. My newer ones don't and are stoopidly powerful.

My 6yr old M4's have been faultless. I got them rebuilt last year but only because I thought they were due a treat for such faultless service. They don't have the initial bite of the SLX but still have no problems slowing me down.

Most people I know with Avids have had problems.

I've got avid elixirs and can't wait to rid myself of them.all the bad press here though I might be hard pressed to sell in the for sale section!

the only thing wrong with elixirs is they need to be bled to perfection, most back shed mechanics and even some bike shops seem unable to do this though.

Thing is, Avids can be fine but there's better brakes that aren't so temperamental, so you'd have to be off your nut to choose them. A product doesn't have to be terrible to be off the shopping list, just less good than its rivals. Which they are. Hope, Formula, Shimano and Magura all have their foibles but you look at the big picture and for each the tradeoff is worth it. With Avid, the tradeoff is mediocrity.

Oh and bloody tri-align! "We've noticed that some people have trouble aligning brakes along the one axis they can move in, so we've decided that the solution is to add more movement! Until they wear anyway, at which point they'll probably be stuck permanently squinty". FFS.

Best preventative maintenance I did to my Elixirs was selling them fast, when they were new. Best thing about Shimano brakes for me is the sintered pads, powerful, long lasting and quiet in the wet. For that reason alone I'll choose shimano.

Shame EVERYU new bike I look at comes fitted with Elixirs... 🙁

Never had a problem with any of my juicies, got two sets of 5 and one 7. Don't really find the bleeding to be that challenging, nor changing pads that hard. Each to their own I guess. That's the good thing about a free market, go out and try the competition!

Avids are fine as long as you steer clear of Juicy 3s (perhaps the other Juicys but have no experience of them so can't comment).

Elixir range is fine generally if treated right.

Biggest problem I feel is too many people jump in and start bleeding them. That's where problems start to begin. Stop bleeding and try making adjustments.

Change pads for starters. "Squishy brakes, oh bleed them" when it's the pads are worn right down. New pads, firm braking again. Fiddle with the bite adjust if you have it. Though I find the Elixir and higher X series stuff self adjusts for wear so there's less fiddling required (Juicys never adjusted).

Good trick if the levers are pulling to the bars or squidgy - wheel out, lever the pistons right back (flat bladed screwdriver or a pad spreader tool), one to two little squeezes on the brake lever, and put the wheel back in. Trust me, it will be loads better 😉

On the bleeding, if you really feel you must, first try overnight tying the levers to the bars with rope or cable ties (with wheel in or with pad stoppers), and leave it like that. Next day chances are it's loads better. Though probably indicates it really does need a bleed if you keep having to do that. I've only ever had to do that with Juicys though.

What are Hayes like these days? I had a pair some years ago and they were dreadful, wooden and totally devoid of feel. Surely they must have improved!

I have Hayes carbon and trail on my 2 bikes there class. To replace these it would have to deore or xt

Aye..I'd like to add my vote for shimano xt775 brakes, have them on both bikes and havent had to bleed them since fitting them.

Matt - I think I must be the only person who likes Hayes brakes. My HFX 9's and Mags were great, super powerful and never needed out doing to them. Newest Hayes brakes I've had have been Stroker Aces, which were pretty good; a fair amount of power, more modulation than previous brakes but sloppy levers.

I've recently replaced my Ace's with some XT 775's and I'm not totally convinced yet. The levers are so ugly, but the blade is a nice shape. My biggest gripe is the slightly mushy lever feel despite being sent back to Rose bikes who sent them back to Shimano in Germany. The power isn't as amazing as I thought it would be.

tri align? No problems with it here.

When it comes to bleeding, use 1 syringe first at the calliper, then do the lever, allowing the lever to hang down on the bar helps more bubbles to come out. I don't bother with the bleeding the line since when I have bled it not a single bubble. IMO it makes more sense to do a quick 1 syringe (also only 1 syringe to degas) bleed every 6 months.

I have to say though my main gripe really when I think about is the Dot 5.1 fluid, disposing of it, taking precautions with it. A right PITA, I am so tempted by the shimano deore brakes ATM.

Mucky. Can you expand on what you mean by "let the lever hang on bars ".
I tend to move lever until bleed port is at highest point.

Brakes are fitted and just did a test ride. Wow! absolutely amazing. i can endo. The power is immense

Can;t wait to try them out on the trail