[Closed] I feel sorry for this coppa.

So I assume he can still be prosecuted, someone notify the Police.

Copper should have known better and the guy is a tool.
Now for fun place yourself in one of those two categories, be honest!
😉

alot of people seem to be missing the point more so - the chap doesnt claim to have NOT run a red light, he just cleverly (winds up) makes the copper look foolish and in the end the red light is irrelevant to what they are arguing about 😆

im still sure if the camera had not of been there then it would be a totally totally different story.....

in the end as elfin says the copper ends up making a lunge for him, which is far far far worse, and discredits him totally as he knows he is being made a fool of......

I was visibly cringing while I watched that.

I felt sorry for the copper because they tend not to sit and read PACE (or other relevant legislation) itself, rather the guidance issued to them which flows from the legislation. So, despite the fact that most police won't know the exact section of every statute, they understand the basis of the law and whether or not an offence has been committed (which when you think about it is correct, the police are simply there to "police" and charge where they consider appropriate, it's then up the the PF/CPS/judiciary/lawyers to decide whether an offence was actually committed, the police are just a witness at that point).

As for the "student of the law". From my own experiences, there were only 2 types of people at law school who would ever use such a grotesque phrase - mature students and total knobs.

Mature students, for some reason I will never understand, from the moment they stepped into the library on the first day, considered themselved to be lawyers. Unusual and highly amusing, especially when they offered their "opinion" on a recently decided case which made it into the Times Law Report that week, generally to a lecturer and in front of 100 other law students.

Total knobs - they were total knobs before they got to law school and will be total knobs for the rest of their lives. In fact, it wouldn't have matter what they studied or where they worked, they are just knobs. However, law school has an uncanny knack of bringing out an even higher level of knobbishness in total knobs. I suffered listening to their guff for 6 years in two jurisdictions so I consider myself an expert in identifying them 😀

The way I see it, the cop pulled over the cyclist for a (probably) legitimate reason. He was then met by a wall of verbal diarrhea by a total knob, which made him flap and he lost his way. The policeman could have handled the situation better if he was more confident in his understanding of the law, but the total knob threw him off balance and he doubted himself.

If that had been any of the number of the police I have had the pleasure of working with/being stopped by, he would have been detained quicker than you can say "bugger off matey"

What Peterfile said.

The guy jumps a red light (nicely edited out of his video) PC most likely has to give chase (on a bike) He is clearly panting, so must have had to catch up etc, then the RLJ spouts some sh1te at him and doesn't let him speak, (standard arse wipe tactic) PC still getting his breath back and his thinking in order, still being bombarded with more verbal dog sh1t, PC made one mistake by getting pissed off, (I know I would have punched RLJ a few minutes earlier)

The RLJ is pure kn0b, the PC imo would have let him off with a short bit of advice about RLJ and the dangers if he just shut up but no this guy was actively looking for an argument. Karma will bite him in the ass when he gets splatted under a bus or takes out a pedestrian with his RLJ antics. The camera he hides behind will indeed be his down fall.

Tool.

Ps, you try talking in a logical coherent manner after riding, Try to have a proper debate at the top of climb you've just raced up I bet you don't make as much sense as you would like.

Guy was a d1ck and the PC rose to it unfortunately.

Ps, you try talking in a logical coherent manner after riding, Try to have a proper debate at the top of climb you've just raced up I bet you don't make as much sense as you would like.

The "tool" managed it didn't he?

Are you a copper too then?

What a bellend

I agree with the previous comments that both parties were indeed dip sh1ts. But some cops really need to be educated in conversing with the public which is an important part of their job.

I had the tables turned recently, I was happily cycling along a narrow two lane road, safely overtaking about 7 or 8 parked cars. A police car comes along in the other direction and narrowly misses my as I had to swerve and almost hit one of the parked car. Fortunately, after having picked up the Sunday papers, I see same copper getting out the car and walking into the church yard. At that point the devil in me takes over and I felt my civic duty rise up and I suggested to the officer that they should lead by example and should not think they own the road.... Officer number 2 *(who wasn't even in the car) chimed in suggesting it was all my fault, didn't - so as expected they closed ranks in a heart beat. I went on to converse politely with officer number 1, suggesting that the highway code suggests to give a cyclist a full lane, the officer "wasn't going to have a conversation with me" and turned and walked away. Quick call the next day to the local police office, spoke with the Chief who didn't seem too pleased with officer number 1 and suggested training would be appropriate...... All I wanted was the officer to recognize they were driving like a tool, could have caused an accident, however willing to offer an apology, bad judgement, was a million miles away, had a bad day etc etc. Result, less respect for the police in general.....

The tool may well have had a nice head start..

No am not a PC and would it matter if I was? No it wouldn't.

Regardless of a few bad eggs I respect them and believe they do in the main a good job. A very difficult job at that and one that I could never do.

I don't expect everyone to think highly of them but I'm glad we have them in our society.

No am not a PC and would it matter if I was? No it wouldn't.

Yes it would as you were advocating violence in the event that someone got the better of you in a verbal tete a tete. I think you reveal yourself quite openly here.

He should be fined for not trying to outrun the plod, seeing if he could ride down steps etc

Pastcaring - potentially, yes. Some cops lie, some will do so in court, and some of these lies will be believed by a court. This is wrong, but happens. Fred, I will endeavour to simplify the points I was trying to make, although I do suspect that you fully understand and are being deliberately obtuse. In the post to which I was replying, it appeared that your view was that a police officer should not attempt to enforce a law that he could not quote in its entirity. My points are these 1) It is desperately unrealistic to think that anyone could possibly remember exactly every criminal and road traffic offence. 2) That it is not automatically unreasonable for the police to enforce legislation just because they cannot quote it word perfect on the spot, and it doesn't mean that they don't know something is an offence ( hence the example I gave of the driving offence). 3) That if we only accepted the police enforcing laws they can quote perfectly, we will end up with farcical situations such as the theoretical theft of your bicycle. I said nothing about Pc Stout since it goes without saying that he completely cocked it up. He clearly knows that RLJ'ing is an offence, but either doesn't know or can't remember which section of the RTA it is, and goes on to forget which part of PACE allows him to arrest the cyclist for not giving his details. I see no grounds for him grabbing the camera either. Pc Stouts cock up does not however negate the points I make. You may disagree. This is fine. This has taken ages to type on my phone so I fare say I've missed a a chunk since I started!

by the way the copper was blowing, he had to work hard to catch the RLJ. Perhaps RLJ deserved to get caught and should have been a bit bloody quicker across the ground?

I wonder if PC Stout is getting it ripped out of him by the rest of the watch & if he's been taken off bikes yet?

Toys19.
Whilst I can agree whole heartedly with you on a lot of the points you put across, your statement regarding not seeing the problem with jumping red lights makes it incredibly difficult to support you.

dickydutch, thanks, but I don't seek your support, why don't you agree with the points of mine that you like and disagree with the ones you don't. I'm not campaigning for election or anything...

Elfinsafety - Member

How d'you know if the copper has children?

I didn't mention the copper I said the guy - he stated he was going to collect his child.

Probably a good job really!

The law student guy is obviously a smug sarcy sort of bloke, but so are a lot of coppers I've met. If I had lost my temper and grabbed at a policeman the way the policeman grabbed at the law student I'd have been arrested and prosecuted. I've been on the recieving end of police lying and being sarcastic as well as wrongly setting a police dog onto me ( that hurts) and even been taken to court to be proved innocent. My point is joe public wouldn't get away with aggression towards a copper why should the police get away with it.
Jumping red lights is wrong too.

thegreatape

thank you for an honest answer!

Cyclist is a pain yes and probably guilty. However I don't feel sorry for this copper as he is PAID to understand the laws and then act accordingly within the law. He lost it and grabs the camera, which just makes him look the aggressor and back in the real world would be a massive FAIL. Difficult job I grant you and there will be good and bad ones as in all walks of life.

When commuting to work through London, I used to see about 20 regular RLJ'er on my route. Each day they would RLJ while I waited patiently for the lights to go green.

Until one day he got hit side-on by a lorry going at least 30mph (if not more), right before our eyes. Killed instantly, in a very nasty red mess. (I hung around for giving statements). I will never forget what I saw, it wasn't pretty.

The usual bunch of RLJ'ers suddenly followed the rules of the road religiously from that day on. Shame it took one person to die though.

Did anyone who sides with the headcam pillock actually read his attempted smartarse comments on his video?
If you side with that, then well, I ain't on your side.

Copper obviously just couldn't be arsed at the end of the day. Don't blame him.

Anyway - the copper won. Prat thinks he can get to pick his kid up quicker by jumping red light. Copper winds him up and delays him by 5 mins.

Yep, saw his comments and made the relevant assumptions about what type of person the cyclist is (a bit of a knob). But nobody won and the copper lost it at the end, resulting in him looking and being the aggressor and not even charging the cyclist.

No, you're wrong, I'm right.
Look I've drawn a graph for you 😛

[img] [/img]

Are Bombers not standard Police issue?

Perhaps they should be for dealing with idiots like this. The copper shouldn't have lashed out, should have just called a van & been done with it.

It looked similar to the bloke on Traffic Cops (or similar ilk) a while ago where drunk toff runs a red light in front of coppers in a car, they stop him & he denies it. Cue much arguing & 'haven't you got real criminals to catch' type behaviour. I think he got chucked in a van, whereas he would have probably just got a 'don't do it again' talking to.

Well said xiphon.

The bottom line for all you RLJ-ers is that it is not big or clever to jump them. We are road users and as such should abide by the rules of the road. We may not see the sense of a red light or feel that there's nothing coming so we can take a chance. Fair enough, that's your choice. But just because you do it and because lots of people do it does not in any way make it right or legal. Have I ever jumped a red ligt? Sure, but not many and generally these days don't. My life is not ruined by the extra couple of minutes I have had to wait for the lights to change.

How would you feel as a cyclist if you are crossing a junction and a car jumps his/her red light and hits you? Presumably you will be less than impressed. So why is it not ok for him/her to jump the light but it's fine for you?

Mind you, having said all that I also agree that the rozzer did not help himself or the cause. Should have been handled a lot better. Sure, he may have had a rough day, be out of breath, frustrated by the **** but part of being a copper is learning to handle these sorts of situations and rising above them. Hence not everyone is capable of being a copper.

And is it such a bad thing if, for generally mild offences where no one has been injured, that a copper goes with a person showing an appropriately apologetic attitude and gives them a ticking off and warning but no paperwork? Saves both him and you a load of hassle, surely?

i can see it woud be a difficult situation for the bobby
1, out of breath after chasing bike
2,confronted with smart arse
3, realises he is being filmed
4,starts being put on camera whilst being filmed
now what would be going on in my head:
why am i being filmed
is it a set up
hes putting me on the spot with the law, its changed recently and im not sure if its sec 25 pace or the new soca rules
am i going to get complained about
whys he filming me
stop asking me all these questions all the time while i think about the law, and my options
i wished id never stopped you now
**** it im just going to lock you up
what will it look like on camera if you resist
it will be on the news
will i lose my job
stop asking me questions you dick while i think
**** it , its not worth it, ill accidently knock the camera and live to fight another day
BUT, i will catch up with you again, and i Will be ready for you

Should I be expected to dismount at every traffic light for the sake of circumstance?

Why dismount? Just trackstand, dear boy. It's what I do.

Hopefully he'll be hit by a car (and odds are, it;s likely if he feels he is above the law as a 'student of the law') at 30+ mph on his way to "pick his daughter up from school" (quoted from the video - that's where he was going), so that when he's messily killed, his daughter will just have to deal with emotional trauma rather than also being killed.

From my perspective, he knew he'd been caught and decided to bluff his way out of it, and that he considers himself above the law - note how he actually queries whether he has to provide details (from the tone of his question he is unsure if it's required, then he settles into berating the cop with "do I? do I?" after that) when it's clear he has been riding on the road, and is thus subject to the laws of the road, and a cop seeing you commit a crime is well within their rights to identify you and arrest you if you fail to provide that information.

Either way, if he keeps jumping red lights like a cock (and let's face it, he is a cock - he's not someone you'd actively be friends with, quite clearly, although I guess you could tolerate him as a work colleague) then he'll be hit by a car. There's one thing you can't do when a car hits you, and that's bluff your way out of it with an undeserved sense of self-righteousness.

The cop forgot the magic words "Road Traffic Act 1988". You've committed a crime and you won't tell me who you are, and refuse to provide any documentation > arrest and take to police station to ascertain identity > issue of ticket.

Hopefully that happens to him before he's killed, only for his daughter's sake. I could live with him being severely maimed. At least he wouldn't jump any more lights.

Video is now private, what's it all about? Red light jumping I'm guessing by the replies above?

DezB......LMFAO its good to have a laugh.

Did anyone who sides with the headcam pillock actually read his attempted smartarse comments on his video?
If you side with that, then well, I ain't on your side.

Well then basically you're a fascist. 🙂

Love stuff like this; it brings out people's 'Outraged Of Tunbridge Wells' side. Loling at all the Keyboard Cops...

Has anyone actually seen the red light he jumped? Assessed wether or not he did actually cause any danger to anyone else?

Cheeze, if I'd bin stopped for every single red light I've ever jumped, no, actually if I had a pound for every time I've done that I'd be quite wealthy by now. I will 'jump' every single red light I feel it is safe to do so. Do I care what some sanctimonious knicker-wetters think of my actions? No I don't! In fact, this thread has just made all my future RLJing all the more enjoyable, simply cos I know how much it will outrage some folk. 🙂

Anyway - the copper won.

Don't be so silly, Dezzie. The copper loses big time, as the video was on YouTube for the whole World to laugh at him. If I ever see that copper, I'm going to laugh at him. And he'll know why. But he won't be able to do owt, cos laughing at a copper isn't an arrestable offence. 😆

Simple rule with RLJing; only do so if it's completely safe to, and make sure you check for any rozzers around first... 😉

Lordy !

just got in - vid is private as said above

don't need to see it though; answer's plain enough. RLJ is a cock (not JUST for being a RLJ fred, though that [u]is[/u] enough). Copper is a fool - why's he not know the relevant law if he's on the roads?
Or conversely, why's he stopping RLJs if he doesn't know the law?

but RLJ is a cock (no evidence presented nor required m'lud)

Has anyone actually seen the red light he jumped? Assessed wether or not he did actually cause any danger to anyone else?

That doesn't matter one bit. Nor does your jumping of lights when no one is looking.

A cop saw him do it - it's pretty much the phrase "a fair cop" - he broke the law and got caught. Whether he was endangering anyone is not relevant, nor is the status of anyone else's lawbreaking.

It's the same rationelle as getting a speeding ticket for being 5mph over in a 30 zone when "everyone speeds". Sure, most people are a little lax on the pedal discipline, but if a cop happens to be running a speed trap and you go through it.. well, you take the fine.

If you jump a red light in front of a cop, even if there is nothing else on the road anywhere near you, you have broken the law and the cop will stop you, especially if you then get antagonistic towards him.

The entire exchange would have ended if at the very first question "why do you think I've stopped you?" he'd just said "I'm not sure, please tell me" politely (I'm going to assume that since he's "a student of the law" that he won't self-incriminate and say "I jumped a red light"). He didn;t do that though, and started off in a very belligerent fashion in a tone that says "I'm going to make life difficult for you because you had the *nerve* to stop and inconvenience me because I broke the law".

He has a nice white helmet. Are helmets safe these days ?

Yeah well as I said, his mistake was to allow PC Stout to even catch up with him. But at the end of the day, he din't give any details, rode off, and din't get a fine. Winner!
No harm done really. The worst crime committed is PC Stout's assault of him in trying to grab the cam. Although people seem to be conveniently ignoring that fact...

Oh, and can anyone actually remember the guy admitting he'd jumped the red light?

As for those wishing that the father of a young child be 'splattered under a bus' (just for jumping a red light); how would you respond if I suggested I hoped the copper was shot in the face and killed by an armed robber*, just for being a bit pompous? I mean, both are possible consequences of their actions and choices, aren't they?

*I don't btw, in case you're a bit hard of thinking, as there appears to be a bit of an outbreak of that on here atm...

I hope some one finds the law students law school and passes on the details to them and that they then take a dim view of refusing to hand over your details to the law.

Thinking the very same, the bloke it a tool of the highest order, his tutors must love every second they are forced to spend with him. The policeman did a terrible job in handeling the situation but everyone has an off day.
the police do a shit job and granted you are going to get some jockeys, as in any walk of life, but on the whole they normal decent people like you and me and deserve a break.

I bet he'd soon change his tune if he was set upon be a gang of local yoof and the plod intervened,

The cyclist is a bully plain and simple. He needs to wake up and see that just because he's smarter than other people doesn't give him the right to make other people seem small. I'd have punched him if he spoke to me like that.

I'd have punched him if he spoke to me like that.

So, your response to someone being cleverer than you is to resort to violence?

What if he was bigger than you, and an expert in Kung Fu? What would you do then?

So basically; we have no evidence of the RLJing, although there may well be some, but we do have some form of evidence of the assault by the copper. Hmm. Assault trumps traffic violation, I'd say.

Still loving the way some folk are getting all wound up over this...

Whose defintion of assault are you using?
Would it be the same one all the asbo scallies use? "you can't touch me I'll have you for assault"....
Just after they've caused criminal damage to your property usually.
Handbags 🙄

Whose defintion of assault are you using?

Erm the England and Wales legal one?

Try grabbing something off a copper, let us know how you get on.

'Assault' can be something as simple as merely pushing someone, irrespective of any 'harm' caused.

If RLJing is breaking the law, so is what that copper dun. Simples. 😉

[i]So, your response to someone being cleverer than you is to resort to violence?
[/i]

the way he spoke was nothing to do with being "clever". I know lots of clever people that don't come across as complete arseholes.

Don't matter Dezzie you can't just go round smacking people (and breaking the Law) simply because you don't like their attitude.

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I would just have kept going. No way a copper in anorak & trousers with a 35lb bike laden with panniers is going to catch me. Not that I make a habit of running lights or cruising along the pavement. Anyone had a game of cat and mouse with a rozzer on a bike?

Back to original post, that guys a knob!

Ah, that hasn't stopped me so far 😉

(I know really mate, it's just the Internet way of saying " I really really dislike that chappie to which you refer")

you can't just go round smacking people

Elfinsafety - Member
Don't matter Dezzie you can't just go round smacking people (and breaking the Law) simply because you don't like their attitude.

i don't think some coppers agree with you

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23936266-g20-inquest-jury-visits-ian-tomlinson-death-scene.do

Anyone had a game of cat and mouse with a rozzer on a bike

I was on a road bike but I think anyone could have ripped his legs apart he was built for MTB 😉

No way a copper in anorak & trousers with a 35lb bike laden with panniers is going to catch me

crombie craig - Dont forget coppers have a radio in amongst that 35lb of crap and he can call his m8s who are equipped with heavy yet fast cars, heavy yet fast helicopters and heavy and hard fokkking great sticks to beat your panting ass with.

🙂

Yeah, cos like they're gonna deploy a copter for someone RLJing ffs... 🙄

By the time he's called up his mates in cars, I'm long gone mate.

Anyone had a game of cat and mouse with a rozzer on a bike

Nah, just laughed at them and ridden off at my normal pace. They ain't catching me on those things.

I can imagine the scene on crimewatch, helicopter tailing a cyclist for jumping a light or riding on the pavement...

As for those wishing that the father of a young child be 'splattered under a bus' (just for jumping a red light); how would you respond if I suggested I hoped the copper was shot in the face and killed by an armed robber*, just for being a bit pompous? I mean, both are possible consequences of their actions and choices, aren't they?

I'm not suggesting he be "splattered under a bus" for being pompous. I'm suggesting that if he comes a cropper by running red lights and being hit by a car, I just hope it's on the journey *to* the school to collect his daughter, rather than on the way home.

You know, since he's above the law 'n all. I won't have any sympathy for him if he's hit by a car, although I'm sure it would be funny to see him attempt to talk his way out of the car breaking his leg as he cruises into its right of way with no regard for the rules of the road. Hopefully the camera would survive the impact and he could watch it back repeatedly while in hospital to learn the golden rule "being a smartass means nothing when faced with a hungry bear".

He seemed genuinely affronted that the cop was asking for his details, in a way that said "how dare you! I've done nothing wrong!" when clearly he had.

He won't learn anything from the experience though, but severe pain and a long recovery period just might teach him some manners and make him realise that ultimately, the cop stopped him on a safety issue - both his own, and for anyone who he might ride out in front of.

Your hypothetical "I hope the cop gets shot" argument is disingenuous - if the cop had been doing something stupid to warrant getting shot (say, not wearing a vest and and jumping around in front of an unstable guy with a gun, provoking him into attacking then sure), but here you're trying to conflate a cop doing his job with a cock who broke the law and then got annoyed because someone who could call him on it and who had some actual power to hurt him (in the wallet) caught him doing it (as opposed to a car driver who can only hurl verbal abuse at him for being a dickhead RLJ).

All this crap about RLJers being run over. Jumpimg a red light is as dangerous as crossing the road not at a zebra crossing, look all ways check nothing is coming, go. It's as simple as that, if you were on foot you would do it. This crap about it being dangerous and putting other road users in danger is just completely moronic. It is not the same as speeding in any way.

But it *is* against the law, and you *can* get run over.

I have personally had to sharply brake to avoid hitting cyclists who have ridden through red lights and who are not looking where they're going.

Even if you are sure it is safe *you are not allowed to do it* and if a cop calls you on it, you take the rap.

Chance it if you like - and I'll be the first to say I walk across pelican crossings when it is "safe" without waiting for the green man, but it's not as if I can complain if I get hit by a car, or told off by an authority figure when I'm caught doing something I shouldn't be.

Oh get a bit of perspective ffs. Cheeze.

[i]'Oh how terrible a cyclist went through a red light!'[/i]

Anyone being all sanctimonious about this is probbly secretly hiding disgusting and horrific crimes they've committed themselves...

That copper is, for sure. Look at his face. Guilty as anything.

This crap about it being dangerous and putting other road users in danger is just completely moronic

i can probably find out who that **** is in the video.

the STW equivalent of the legal world. seriously, these things don't stay quiet for very long. If you think he's being made a fool of here, he will be positively destroyed over there

Me thinks the RLJ is wishing the internet would dissapear up a large cavernous hole right now 😀 regrets I've had a few....