[Closed] I fancy a steel road/all round/cross bike. Whats any good?

I've had an equilibrium 20 for the past month or so.

I run 25c tyres and full guards and absolutely love it, it's used as a commuter mainly but if I fancy a bad weather training ride it's perfect.

It weighs 20lbs and can safely say I enjoy riding it more than my previous road bike (16lb merlin metalworks/ full dura-ace etc)

Not sure I'd take it off road with the std forks though.

I have a cross check and although not light, rides nice enough to forget about the weight. I run various tyres from 25c slicks to 1.8 29er tyres but mostly 35c land cruisers with full mudguards. This set up still has decent mud clearance for off road even with the guards fitted. If I was buying a full bike though I would be tempted by the salsa Fargo due the versility it offers ( the main reason I chose the surly)

I do like the look of the equilibrium. Does it have space for cx tires and does it have rack mounts?

In terms of off road, I'd probalby be riding fire roads, that sort of thing, so nothing to lairy.

Wouldn't dismiss the Surlys on weight alone. They're great bikes and the Cross Check will do just about anything; you couldn't ask for a more versatile bike.

Frame weight is no big deal, just get some sprightly wheels and tyres. My CC is currently loaded up as a winter audaxyish thing with very average componentry, mudguards, 28s, a rear rack, lights, a little bar bag (and on longer rides, a sizeable rack pack and extra bottles) and it doesn't feel sluggish (and the stopwatch agrees).

davidtaylforth - Member

I do like the look of the equilibrium. Does it have space for cx tires and does it have rack mounts?

(checks in the kitchen...)

rackmounts: yes, and there's loads of room in the frame/forks/brake callipers for enormous tyres AND mudguards.

and it's beautiful.

and it's lovely to ride - very zingy.

Personally I'd go for the Genesis Croix De Fer. The only reason I didn't was cos I worked out I'd never use it offroad, and a proper road bike (albeit a sportif style geometry one) would be a better bet for me.

They're not the lightest (about 25lb iirc), but a cromoly fork is 1lb heavier than carbon forks, and wider rims and 35c tyres and wider rims probably add nearly 2lb, and discs will add the best part of 1lb over calipers. Have heard from a couple of people that own them, a lighter set of wheels (say open pro on shimano XT hubs for instance) with some 25c tyres for road use transforms it on road, and just keep the standard wheels and tyres for CX use.

Otherwise, any particular reason it has to be steel? Could buy a nice CX bike with an ally frame and carbon fork, bung a carbon seatpost on it too to gain some forgiveness back. It'll certainly be lighter, probably faster, though doubtful as versatile as the Croix De Fer...

Wouldn't dismiss the Surlys on weight alone. They're great bikes and the Cross Check will do just about anything; you couldn't ask for a more versatile bike.

From what I've read, most people seem to rate it.

However, this bike will primarily be used for road riding, but I would like the ability to pootle along fire roads if I wanted to.

Thats why I dont want the croix d fer, its dead heavy and disc brakes etc dont really matter if Im barely using it off road.

Whats a Salsa Casseroll like?

i ve got an planet x uncle john . put some roadrat wheels on it and a 1 x 9 set up and it s great . nice and comfy and not too heavy .they do some nice deals on the planet x site on various configurations.

Kaffenback.

Here's mine on touring trim
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4751455287_eb29443bea_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4751455287_eb29443bea_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/53067724@N00/4751455287/ ]underbarrow-0003[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/53067724@N00/ ]Jon Wyatt[/url], on Flickr

It's had CX tyres in there no problem too.

Road trim.
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4592112086_f20530c92e_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4592112086_f20530c92e_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/53067724@N00/4592112086/ ]kaffenback[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/53067724@N00/ ]Jon Wyatt[/url], on Flickr

Some of the Kinesis cross bikes might fit the bill. I looked at them and came to the conclusion you'd need to build your own to get a decent build.

Others I looked at were the planet x uncle john, charge filter, focus mares range, cannondale caadx (very nice looking bike).

I bought a focus mares AX3 lowest of their CX bikes. It has mounts etc that I can turn it into a tourer or commuter. Although it is a cross bike it is more than capable on the road it may need a tweek with a different stem if I was going to start riding regular centuries but it is comfortable. I also own a focus cayo which I love and is what I'm comparing it to.

I quite like the look of the kaffenback, but I reckon its maybe a bit heavy and not quite "roadie" enough.

Those charge juicers look good, doesnt sound like you can fit racks though?

Cross check. Lovely and not heavy. I would say these weigh in lighter than many others.

It's one bike that does everything.

Race, tour, on road, off road. One of the greatest bikes of all time.

Give me a call or email if you want to chat about this, or take one of our demo bikes out.

I'd love to have a go one one, but it looks like you're at the other end of the country!

Ive been looking at the genesis croix de fer i think it looks cool with the brown seat and grip tape its also a bit slack so might feel right coming from a mountain bike they say its got all the pannier bosses and some dude has riden it around the world not a bad advert for a bike. Ive not ridden one but its what ive found when been looking for the same thing your after.

Singular Peregrine?

Why steel?

Not really sure "why steel"

Never had a steel road bike before, I've got a carbon race bike now and its very stiff, I used to have an aluminium road biek and that was also very stiff.

I imagine something with thin stays like the Genesis Equilibrium would be fairly comfortable.

Not sure about the Cross Check though, its supposed to be very weighty, and hence fairly solid I guess?

'nother crosscheck owner here. using it as my commuter, mixed on and off road with the dog, ss, fitted with 35 cx tyres. i have to lift it over 5 stiles each way, it has a bottle battery and another bottle with tools etc. too, and i don't find it very heavy.
feels fun to ride, snappy without being unstable, will do everything, is nicely finished. charlie's stickers match the surly ones pretty well too. 😀
keep thinking about 1x9 for it, to make it a bit bit more versatile, but the price of shifters is scary and i have a tendency to drop it when i'm pi55ed...

davidtaylforth - Member
Not really sure "why steel"

Never had a steel road bike before, I've got a carbon race bike now and its very stiff, I used to have an aluminium road biek and that was also very stiff.

Considered Ti?

Casseroll = no disc mounts, silly high head tube and 32mm tyres max (based on my 09 model). Rides nice though.

Have to say I'd love a light steel x bike that could shit the roadies up on a chain gang with some 23s.

Criox de Fers weigh a ton as do Kaffenbacks (tho Samurai, as ever, gets his usual prize for recommending his own bike when it's not even close to what is being discussed)

"[i]it's not even close to what is being discussed[/i]"

Huh? The thread I'm reading says "I fancy a steel road/all round/cross bike" - what's the Kaffenback then?

davidtaylforth - Member
For some reason I fancy buying some sort of all round road/cross/touring bike.

Ideally it would be a road focussed thing (so [u]light[/u] and comfy)

Various other comments re. weight. Kaffenbak frame is 2.4kg FFS.

EAT MY WIN ! 😡

I have a Genesis Vapour that I've had since 2007. It's my only 'road' bike and I've done the Northern Rock Cyclone 107 miles; a 10 mile TT; one big tour of Northumberland of 210 miles and three 3 peaks and associated training on it. I haven't toured on it but sure it would without trouble. Weighs about 20/21lbs last time I weighed it.

Ok, so, if we take a look at Weightweenies then we can see that a Kaffenback is no more than 3lb heavier than a CAAD8, a Merlin Extralight or a Wilier Mortirolo (none of which you're going CXing on).

I'd guess it wouldn't be too expensive to build those up to, say, 18lb? Which means it wouldn't be too expensive to build a Kaffenback up to 21lb (especially as you've got a big pile of spare change). And the difference is only static weight. Not [i]that[/i] heavy, really, for something that'll happily handle off-road and touring.

I have a custom built Croix de Fer and it isn't that heavy at all. Sounds ideal to me for what you want with the clearance for cx tyres and all the mounts you could want.

Trevor.

Had a Kaffenback with flat bars and those dinky cane creek bar-ends It was brill. Great for off-roading, so much so that I often left the mountain bike at home for hacking round Hampshire trails. I rode it to Cornwall once.. Was very comfortable too, and handled well with weight.
I sold it to a mate when I went abroad, and regretted it, so I'm going to get me a Pompino frame and fork for my current roadie and make a freako 3 speed version of it.

Edit: Don't know if they've changed at all, but there was limited clearance for big tyres to the seat tube.. Hence why a Pomp with track ends seems to be a good choice..

Bez it's still a tank no matter how much dura ace gets hung on it.

I'm not saying it's crap, nor that it won't ride nice, but it's not a light frame nor will it build into a light bike.

OP I have a 57cm Casserrol with disc mounts for sale-the older better geometry.

davidtaylforth - Member
I quite like the look of the kaffenback, but I reckon its maybe a bit heavy and not quite "roadie" enough.

Not sure how a kaffenback is less "roadie" than a cross check or a Criox de Fer? The Kaffenback has more road orientated geometry than the cross style bikes and to me seems like an obvious choice for what your looking for; unless you want to go custom, only way I can see your going to get a light weight steel all rounder.

But if you say you want it for mainly the road and then the odd fire road excursion, a road bike, like say the equilibrium, will be fine, fit biggish tyres (25c upwards)and you won't have any problems. I ride my aluminium framed road bike, with 23c tyres, off road (fire road and light single track) fairly regularly, it's not ideal on the single track but quite fun and no problem at all with fire road (I will fit bigger tyres soonish). If you are just going to be riding fire road type off road a road bike will be fine, just look at the paris roubaix, much rougher than most fire roads!

I have friend who fanied around trying different frames. He had the same brief as you.

Me and Crashy went halves and got him a surly cross check frame for his birthday. And he has been loving it ever since.

Go steel. It's weigh that works for you. The point of alloy is it's light but at the price if comfort. Steel flexes and shrugs off bad vibes and bumps.

Also look at the salsa Fargo. It's an excellent drop bar 29er. Stick touring tyres on and it's a great alrounder but also capable of being a proper Mtb.

Been said already but a Singular Peregrine:

[img] [/img]

Obviously I know my Vapour is aluminium. I was just making a point about comfort and versatility.

[url= http://salsacycles.com/bikes/casseroll_single/ ]salsa list the casseroll at 21.5lbs single speed on a 47cm frame[/url]
not exactly a leightweight itself, is it?
😉

David,
I used a Cross Check right thorough the past 18months until last month.
Great all rounder. Although with out light wheels and tyres it can feel slow on the road. You only notice though when you get on a proper road bike and it is quite a difference. Handling off road is nice, very steady as she goes and easy to manage when slippy.

Now on a Casseroll, MUCH better as a road bike and handles ok on canal and old railway paths and even some with small stones and the like.

Better position for commuting for me on the Cass, i suffered terrible toe overlap on the CC and that is why i changed it.

Casseroll suits fast commuting well and general just going for a ride type riding. it takes a wide enough range of tyre sizes and allows fenders and racks. The CC does this also, but overall the Cass is a better ride.

Hope that helps a little.

Oh the shame. From BMX to touring bikes. Next you'll be asking which pipe and slippers 😆

+1 for the Kaffenback!

If you already have a featherweight carbon road bike, but fancy a bit of 'steel' in your stable, don't make your decision purely about weight. Concentrate on the geometry, and the purpose for which you will be using the bike.

The Kaffenback is a really good all-rounder, and ticks all the boxes for me.

Stick to rim-brakes if you fancy going touring though...

Seen the steel 2012 Ritchey Swiss Cross?.... oh man!

Love my Kaffenback, it works well on and off road, not many bikes have that magic combo imho.

Cass F+F is 500gm lighter! Rides A LOT lighter too.

Having replaced a small midge drop bar v braked Pompino with a flat bar compact geared Roadrat a few years back here's my twopenneth of experience.

On towpaths a set of Schwalbe 28c marathons are easilly robust and tough enough but weigh a ton and you really feel that rotating mass. They still cut through mud though so can work in a fashion off road. Spesh Houffalize 32c cross tyres weigh less, puncture more (though not much) and roll a bit slower but allow more comfort and work very well off road and snow etc. 25c Conti 4 seasons will still cope with towpaths and are much faster than the other tyres but still have noticeably more cush than a 23c Conti (as fitted to my carbon roadbike).

So what? Well the 32c was the biggest that would fit the Pompino and still work off road. The Cotic has no such issues (of course disc brakes also great in mud on the Cotic). The On-One had toe overlap even with skinny rubber and mud guards made it a real mare. Again not such an issue with the longer Cotic.

The On-One has more roadie handling and felt much better to ride over any distance generally (more sprightly) and so I miss it in lots of ways. Indeed even my Mrs who also had a similar Pompino but swapped for a bottom of the range geared Trek 1.2 still misses hers.

Now part of the Pompino/Kaffenback weight issue (if there is even a weight issue) is probably down to the forks. A set of Carbon cross forks on one of their frames would be blinding as an inspiring fun bike to ride.

The Kaffenback is just disgusting in the brown.

Cotic now do the X cross bike and I'd love to give that a go as it can be had with a carbon fork and should be less leaden feeling than the Roadrat.

Fixie inc Pure Blood tested some time back in Singletrack would be high on my list if money were not an issue.

My mate had a short drop bar Roadrat (no longer produced) and in the end found it too limited for riding with proper roadies, yet also not good enough to ride and keep up with the MTB rides so sold it on.

So remember if you are looking at something like this it probably falls right between the two schools and so will be better for those solo rides where you just want to explore or commuting purposes. Well unless all your mates are after cross bikes too.

Did the CXSportive in the summer with a mate who has had a Planet X Uncle john for a few years and that was quite a fun alternative to the usual Merida 100/Mayhem/SITS/D2D type enduro stuff we usually do. Also did a cross race on the Cotic once - not for me.

*Any* bike that's not built from neurotica will handle a bit of fireroad surely? Strong wheels, bit of tyre width, decent innertubes, avoid the drop-offs. Things were much easier when we all had less choice 🙂

OP - [url= http://www.rsf.org.uk/ ]get in touch with this lot: RSF[/url]

FWIW, for road bike capable of riding on towpaths/fireroads, read "road bike".

Both my alu winter bike, and fancy-dan carbon job go fine off road. Both have rattled across the cobbles and farm tracks of Flanders and closer to home on many an occasion. In fact, I consider it a normal thing for road bikes to be taken off road.

[url= http://www.rivbike.com/Bicycle-Models-s/39.htm ]What you want is something like a Rivendell.[/url]

Singular Osprey possibly? Will handle tyres up to 34mm (without guards) but is more road bike than cross. Rack mounts, mudguard mounts, looks nice, pretty light, rides nicely....

[img] [/img]

Oh the shame. From BMX to touring bikes. Next you'll be asking which pipe and slippers

Oi! You're always taking the piss. I cant get the miles in on a bmx can I!

Anyway, thanks for the ideas, at the moment its looking like either a Kaffenback, Cross Check or Casseroll I think. Reason being, I'll be trying to keep the costs down, and I dont think those Singulars ever crop up for sale 2nd hand.

Oi! You're always taking the piss. I cant get the miles in on a bmx can I!

Sorry mate, I can't help it 😆

You know I'm only pulling your leg. Ride what you like gramps 😀

...at the moment its looking like either a Kaffenback, Cross Check or Casseroll I think....

I was not familiar with the Casseroll until it cropped up on this thread today. I've just been to the Salsa site to check it out... and in terms of geometry, it is alomst identicacal to the Kaffenback.

In size 'Large' (Kaffenback) vs 57cm (Casseroll), there is virtually no difference in geometry.

Head angles and seat tube angles are within half a degree of each other, effective top tube lengths are within 5mm of each other, and the chainstays are both the same length. The only difference I can see between the two is the Casseroll has a slightly taller head tube and seat tube, which gives it a more 'traditional' look with its more conventional high cross-bar - compared with the Kaffenbacks' 'compact' style sloping crossbar.

The critical geometries however, are pretty much the same for both frames. Likewise, they both have stupid names, and come in a similar wierd sand colour...

I've got a Small size Kaffenback frame and fork up for grabs just as soon as I find myself a replacement in Medium... just in case you are interested??

Thanks monstermarrow, I hadnt really bothered comparing geometries as of yet. I think I'd be looking for a 2nd hand Kaffenback (not keen on the new dropouts and I'm not fussed about disc brakes)

However, Im 6'2" so a small would be.....too small.

Anyone know how they size up compared to the planet x road bikes?

I had a carbon sl in X-Large which worked with a 90mm stem and a layback post, or a 110mm stem and an inline post. It was probably a touch large, but I enjoyed the long TT length for out of the saddle climbs.

The Kaffenback is shorter by the looks of it, but the angles are slightly different. What does this mean exactly? Im assuming they're shorter as they're supposed to be more relaxed. So would the XL size work? I'd probably be looking to run a layback post and a 100mmish stem I'd guess.

Ta

rode a roadrat in a single ring cx guise for a while, but the racer in me wanted faster acceleration after i messed a corner up and overshot an exit.
so i went to a longish chainstay cx bike from kona in alloy..kicks me about a bit too much at slower pace but the faster you go off road the better it gets so i guess pace or aggresion needs to be considered too..whatever you choose, there's nowt like a two wheel drift (and save) on 35mm rubber!

just spotted..6 foot 2 on a steel frame bike..compliant is the word

"[i]...at the moment its looking like either a Kaffenback...[/i]"

Hey, cynic-al, EAT SAMURI'S WIN.

😉

Have a look at the Soma Double Cross - or the Double Cross DC if you want to run discs. Pleasingly unheard of on here, but really nice in a skinny-tubed, proper steel sort of way.

Ha Bez 😀 *munches*

DTF my Casseroll would be ideal, I'm 6'1" and it was spot on. I got disc mounts put on though. I have brake calipers, seatpost, headset, mudguards to match...