I fancy a Gravel Bike. Sonder Camino?

I’m in the process of building up one of last years frames. Not finished yet but I’m very happy with the quality and finish of the frame and forks.

Sorry it's not the latest version, but I love my V2.

I was a real gravel bike hater and took the mick out of them a lot, then I bought one on a whim and I love mine now.
From what you’ve said I reckon you’d love one. The Camino is a great bike, I would have bought one if they had fitted me (neck problem means I needed a high front end) as they seem like great value and very well designed.

I had the same kind of thoughts last autumn. Needed something to commute on as the mtb’s weren’t really working for that so I went for a Pinnacle Arkose 4. 45mm 700c version with 1 x 11 GRX. Like a lot on here I love it. Fast off road and pretty decent on road too. Fitness is going up too.

I’ve got the previous, less rad one & I love it. I was aiming for more of a road bike I could take down tracks and it’s perfect for what I wanted.

https://flic.kr/p/2nimNGh

The Caminos are great bikes, I've not ridden the latest version but have used the previous gen for offroad riding and a couple of 200km audaxes and it was great at both. Plenty of Caminos out in the wilderness for the Bearbones Welsh Ride Thing last weekend too.

I would have bought one if they had fitted me (neck problem means I needed a high front end)

I am slightly worried about it being comfortable, if I’m not careful I get achy shoulders (I think from breaking my collar bone when young) and it’s part of the reason the HT doesn’t get ridden. A higher front end does help but I’m also hoping that drop bars will be more comfortable than flats and give me different options for where to hold on. I’ve not ridden drop bars much though.

I don’t *think* the Camino is as low as some that I’ve been looking at, compared to the PX Tempest for example.

I was a real gravel bike hater

Not a hater but never thought I had a need for one until recently 🙂

@teamslug I think I’d prefer the GRX version but not available until end of July, the SRAM ones are available in the next couple of weeks.

@ogden that looks lovely. I’ll be trying to avoid roads if possible so hopefully the new one will suit me. I’m more than happy riding on quiet roads, but I can’t be bothered playing with traffic, I just don’t find it enjoyable.

Lots of positive replies thanks 👍

@b230ftw what high stack gravel bike did you end up with?

Also any issues with 1x for a gravel bike?

Lowest gear the same, lose a bit at the top but if I’m not trying to ride flat out on the road I think it will be OK? I don’t think I’m fussy enough to worry about big gaps between gears.

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I could always go to a smaller chainring if I ever go anywhere with the bike loaded up.

Latest version here, bought as a frameset when they had £50 off recently.
Large for me at 5'10 and fits nicely.
Went for sage/light green or whatever it's called - was dubious, but it's actually rather nice in the flesh, and has some strange sparkle to it in the sunshine.

I am running a short 50mm stem and wide 52cm cowchippers.
Squeezed 29x2.1 vittoria terrano drys on - just enough mud clearance on the back - plenty on the front.

Coming from a couple of slack MTB framed monster cross builds recently, a Riverside 920 last year and a nukeproof digger a couple of years ago, it's been a nice combination of all of them for me and i expect it will hang around a lot longer than the others.

Sonder framesets seem to have decent quality control and thought into the design from my experience over the years.

It's a bit cobbled together, hence the random selection of parts in various colours...

@stanstorey I love the colour, unfortunately looks like it’s only blue available at the moment.

Is that Eagle GX? I didn’t think that was an option for a gravel set up?

Edit: aha, I think I’ve just spotted the shifter on the middle of the bars?

singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-fancy-a-greavel-bike-sonder-camino/#post-12369568

I have a Marin 4 corners. The front end is VERY high but I have a bad neck and very short arms - it’s the only bike I’ve ever found comfy and I love it. It’s a heavy bike and has a 3x9 road group on it with mechanical discs. QR front and back and a steel fork I can’t upgrade but I love it to bits. I might upgrade to GRX one day but if I ever want a lighter frame I’m just going to have the same frame set made for me in light steel or titanium with carbon forks.

Have you considered Planet X free ranger.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/gravel-adventure-bikes/on-one-free-ranger
A full carbon bike. I bought a frameset from their eBay site and built it up as a flat bar SRAM 1x11 bike. A light and comfy bike with fittings for everything you’ll need. Always gets good reviews.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cycling/7294/m.html?_trkparms=folent%3Aplanetxbikesuk%7Cfolenttp%3A1&_ssn=planetxbikesuk&_sac=1

Also any issues with 1x for a gravel bike?

Not for me, I love it. I ride a 40 with 12 - 25 cassette.
40/12 is high enough for me on the road and 40/25 is low enough to get up every hill where I live.

<b>I </b>bought a drop bar gravel bike for a 200 mile two day coast to coast.

On anything remotely technical I'd rather have a MTB with gravel sized tires.

I've persisted with the gravel bike as I spent quite a bit building it up. At the moment it mostly gets used to commute as 35c tyres are much more pleasant on the way to work than the 25c on my old commuter.

When I have more time in the summer there is some lovely off-road that the gravel bike is perfect for on the way home from work.

If I was going gravel again, I'd build some 700c wheels for a hardtail and put some bar ends on for different hand positions.

My mate has bought the titanium sonder and I had a wee look at that the other day. It looked lovely!

Not sure what the lead time is on the Camino, but I know some folk have been waiting up to 12 months. I bought a Diverge elite, but changed a few things. Stuck an MTB cassette on the rear, riser drop bars and a 1 x on the front. Its an awesome bike to ride, the riser drops transformed the bike considerably.

I am slightly worried about it being comfortable,

I have a gen 1 gravel bike - a 2016 bergamont grandurance 6 tiagra which is more road than gravel and only takes up to 35mm tyres and whichnive only used as winter road since 2018. I rode my first proper gravel ride for 3Hrs on Saturday with no issues at all using 33mm Victoria Terrence mix at 50psi. I really enjoyed it. Yes, some “horses hooves” sections were a bit rough on my arms and vision but no aches and pains post ride. Overall comfort did surprise me, but you just hover downhill and use the tops Belgian style uphill unweighting the bike where appropriate.

This has got me thinking how good a fatter tyred modern gravel bike would be, I was also looking at Camino’s at the weekend.

Also any issues with 1x for a gravel bike?

I've just changed from 2x11 (which I've been using for 4 years/20k kms) to 1x. 11/46 cassette, 42t chainring. Low enough bottom gear (prev 34:34) and high enough top gear. Occasionally I notice the larger gaps, but for a bike that sounds most of its time off road, there's no real down side.

No issues with 1x, i have a grx setup on my cube nuroad. 40T chainring, 11-42 cassette. 11 speed.
Works fine for a mid fifties tubby rider.
Low enough that i can get up hills, you do start to run out of gears at 25mph+ but I don’t hit those kind of speeds very often.
I’m not an advocate for 1x generally, but it does work well on this type of bike.

V3 Camino Al here. Most loved bike I've had. I have a hardtail and a Tarmac SL6, Camino always wins.

Only wish I'd bought the Ti version

Buy one!

I have an XL V1 that I believe shares the same geometry as the V2 but not as gnar as the current (V3?).

My XL has a 200mm HT with an external lower cup so the bar height at its lowest is still quite high.

I started with it as being a “gravel” bike but after a year or so it’s morphed into more **cough** “road plus” **cough** running 1x11 (11-28 & 44T).

I definitely fall into the serial swapper category but there is so very little to dislike of the frame and forks. Yes a full carbon fork would be nice but that’s about it.

The V3 is a different beast though isn’t it? It looks far more gravel than it does anything else. I guess this is a good thing.

I'll throw a curve ball in and say get the holdsworth with sram force groupset, i never review bikes but it's the best bike ive ever bought , good on the road and better off the road,I bought some dt Swiss wheels to run gravel and used the fulcrum wheels for the road

with a bit of luck the Sonder spanner monkeys building mine this week.
Its a Ti Rival1 and to say im excited is an understatement

The V3 is a different beast though isn’t it?

No, V3 is pretty simialr to V1/V2. I have V3, 2021 model. V4 is the newer, gnarerer one.

got the latest Ti model 650b, love it, although 1x GRX, i do miss the higher gears on the tarmac, offroad with 40t/11-46t, I ride it the same places I'd have ridden an XC mtb.
the low gear can get me up the local steep stuff.
its brilliant on woodland singletrack

definately now my go to bike.. although i'm thinking about the colibri 2x11 for more tarmac orientated riding. i go out with a few workmates on leisurely road bike rides and i can keep up, but on long flat or downhill, its hard work to keep up. on the uphills, it climbs very very well.

my friend had a test ride of mine and just got the Al version delivered last week, the paint looks great in black with a sparkle in it.

A Freeranger was my other option and they had the framesets on special a month or so ago for £399 direct on their website - only went with the camino as i fancied the slacker geomoetry and i couldn't bring myself to buy the creme egg paint scheme

@phil5556 Yes, well spotted! Not in the market for pairing the GX mech with rival AXS brifters (not that there is any stock anywhere even if i was!) Mullet AXS drivetrains seem quite common now.

The shifter is now upside down by the brake lever after various trial and errors with parts bin brackets, and actually rather nice to use with the thumb!
Bodgetastic - clamp from a 2016 carbon zaskar chain guide...obviously

There's something deeply disturbing about using a very expensive electronic setup and mounting it unergonomically upside-down in a weird place. If I could blank that out of my mind, the rest of the bike looks ace. Anyway, you do you!

I love my Camino (V2 I think). I'd probably love other similarly-specced bikes too, but the Camino was the best value proposition at the time.

It's called using what you've got to just get riding...had single speed hydros in stock and spare GX axs from a MTB strip down...ta da!
But I do know exactly what you mean and agree in part.

Has anyone rode the new Camino and an old one?

How do they compare?

I'm not in the market for a gravel bike but if I was...tifosi cavazzo with campag ekar groupset.
Sell and replace the miche graffe wheelset; frame is open mould so it's generic but fine for most riders.
Possibly go further by selling and replacing everything other than the groupset and bb.
Memo to self...don't even think about it.

What are the Sonder wheels like? Not much positive in the reviews on the Alpkit website, but also small numbers.

What are the Sonder wheels like?

Heavy OEM, not nice. First thing to replace.

I've got a v4 camino with rival.
My first gravel bike so nothing to compare with.
Mines the black one pleased with the finish quite sparkly in the light 😉
Got the upgraded wheelset on it with deep rims. They pick up speed well.
Rear wheel seems weighty but probably the cassette.
Put sks bluemels mudguards on mine.
Overall really pleased with it.
If I'm picky the chain stay bridge is a bit untidy(has routing for the dropper)
I'm 5ft 11 and on the large flipped the stem for extra rise (after the first ride) I'm all arms and back so would of liked a little more standover.

I would look at Pinnacle bikes also and there seems to be good deals on those

So I went to Edinburgh a couple of days ago and had a little ride. Had it for about 30 minutes around the backstreets around the shop. The sun might have helped but I had a blast, very comfortable and it flew compared to what I usually ride 🙂

Unfortunately the only Large was a v3 (that had been painted in the new colour) they have a Medium v4.

I've applied for a C2W voucher to get myself one and hopefully they still have a sensible lead time by the time the voucher comes. I'm waiting for them to get back to me on whether I can pay a deposit / the full amount to order and then get a refund.

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@thegreatape they offer an upgrade to their Alpha wheels which the guy in the shop recommended as worthwhile. I'm not actually sure of the differences but he did mention they were stronger and had proper sealed bearings vs  cup & cone.

@winston2005 yours sounds like what I'd be ordering, except I'd try and get the green or blue second choice. Apparently all but 1 of the green frames due in are already sold but there are plenty of blue at the moment. I'll drop in to Evans for a look as a back up next time I'm passing.

So got home yesterday to a big box in the hall

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Just went for a quick cruise around the cycle paths in town yesterday, lovely. Coming from mountain biking I’ve never really ridden anything that moves along so effortlessly 😁

Coming from mountain biking I’ve never really ridden anything that moves along so effortlessly 😁

Yep. My youngest had been using my old MTB for commuting on, and I suggested he try my old gravel bike instead. Got a text telling me he got to work in half the time 🙂

Thread resurrection...

I'm looking at a Camino and will take one for a test ride soon. Any thoughts on the groupset choice SRAM Road vs Shimano Road vs Shimano GRX? Are the Alpha wheels worth having?

Since nobody else is replying, I'll just ask where you're gonna mostly ride it?

Personally I mainly ride off-road on my gravel bike and 1x GRX 11sp suits me perfectly, and is lovely and solid to use.

It's fine on the road as well, so I'd only consider a road groupset if I were basically using it as a road bike.

I find Shimano 1x11 is enoough range for me, mixed road/offroad. You wont be screwing along at 25mph on the road anyway given the aero/tires/weight so no point gearing it for that.

IIRC I've got GRX 38t crank and an 11-40 Cassette.

I got a Camino a few months back and went grx 1x.

There was A LOT of indecision about drivetrain as none of my bikes are 1x, but actually it's really good.
I swapped the chainset for a SRAM rival 1x when ordering (in hindsight it was probably a pointless decision) and went for the Alpha wheels. I also upgraded the saddle to the flatter saddle option; the Kura one. It is very comfy.
No idea if the Alpha wheels are better, but they looked a fair bit lighter and it seemed like a worthwhile upgrade.
Kinda wonder if I should have gone 650b, but 700c seem fine for now.

Regarding gearing, I have stuck with 40t on the front. It is fine for me, but my local area is pretty flat. It was also fine on the Dirty Reiver, but most of those climbs were long and steady. If there had been short, punchy climbs I'd have likely suffered.
I did buy a 38t ring but didn't get round to fitting it.

I thought it was gonna be pretty compromised on the road, but I love it. It feels like a barge compared to my road bike, but took both out on the same loop recently in very similar conditions and the Camino was only 0.6km/h slower which surprised me. That was on a 30km road loop and I was ticking along at 27.7km/h average on the Camino.

Most importantly what colour are you going for? I went for the sage green.

Before the Reiver

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916953643_ed03b16501_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916953643_ed03b16501_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2oC6dHH ]2023-05-22_11-49-46[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/me96kka/ ]STW stumpy01[/url], on Flickr

After the Reiver 🤣

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916497056_898169c95a_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52916497056_898169c95a_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2oC3SZw ]2023-05-22_11-48-06[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/me96kka/ ]STW stumpy01[/url], on Flickr

I’m still sad mine’s not sage 😢

Regarding gearing I’ve gone for the Ratio Technology long cage and an 11-51 Cassette with 38T up front. This works well for me (despite being told it’s “not gravel gearing” by plenty on the FB groups) and I don’t mind big gaps in gears, I’ve never known any different.

I think the hubs on the Alpha wheels are supposed to be better, using cartridge bearings & the rims lighter? Mine came with Superstar wheels instead of Alpha’s which have been great. I too wonder if I should’ve gone 650, I’m going to try my wife’s wheels on it at some point when I get around to it.

I’ve just changed the bomber bars too as I was finding them uncomfortable on rides of a couple of hours or more, couldn’t quite get on with the extreme angle of the hoods and the transition between the top of the bar and the hood, where the heel of my hand seemed to sit.

£6 Level bars from Ribble now fitted although not had a proper ride yet.

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pretty versatile

bikepacking

I've been eyeing a Camino up, but I'm a little ambivalent about some of the parts spec.
Would sonder change a couple of parts if requested? I just don't like the look of the 'bomber' bars their 'spitfire' or 'Hurricane' bars with less/no flare would be my preference, and the cranks are listed as 172.5 (across all sizes?) What are the odds of having 170mm fitted, so I don't have to change stuff as soon as it arrives?

cookeaa
Full Member
I’ve been eyeing a Camino up, but I’m a little ambivalent about some of the parts spec.
Would sonder change a couple of parts if requested?

Yep.
You can edit a lot of the spec and swap parts out when placing the order online. I just had a look and am not sure why but the bars aren't showing with any other options apart from the standard 'bomber' ones.
Just choose a spec, hit 'buy now' and that will show you all the options you can edit - I think you have to choose 'customise order' or something, but it's pretty obvious once you get there.

You definitely can change stuff - I swapped the FSA crankset that comes with the GRX spec, to a SRAM Rival 1x.
I also asked at one point about changing the cassette - they didn't have the one I wanted available, but said it was fine for me to send it in, they would fit it, and adjust the price accordingly - so if you wanted to fit shorter cranks and they don't have availability of them, I'm sure you could source some & send them in, to be built up with your bike.

Drop them an e-mail. They were really responsive and helpful when I asked a multitude of questions about the options.

GAH! Just seen they now have a really nice sky blue & a bright orange colour option. Pah.....I'd have gone for the orange if it had been available. Balls.

Sonder are great with regards to customising a build.
When I bought my Broken Road they happily fitted Shimano and Hope kit to it for me. Some parts I supplied and the rest they sourced.

I've got the ti version and love it. It came with superstar wheels in 700c. I've just received a dynamo hub front wheel to fit. I like the bars but have fitted a redshift suspension stem and redshift grips and tape.

I got bored with the std colour so changed mine...twice, this is the current colour

I've got a V4 with 1x GRX. I'm on a 40t chainring and an 11-42 cassette. Like lots of others here it's fine for me on the road - I start to spin out at about 45kph but in practice that just means I start coasting earlier on the downhills. It spends most of its time on the road with 700c wheels with 38mm slicks, but I have a second set of 650b wheels with WTB Resolutes on for gravel type stuff. Very happy with it.

I do find 1x with a 40t/42t a bit challenging on technical steep climbs….(so much so that I fell off last weekend at slower than walking pace!!)
On a gravelly steep climb coming out of a tight switchback, so no speed taken into the climb, it’s too hard a gear for seated climbing, standing up can be a bit more difficult to get the balance right so the back wheel doesn’t spin. The back wheel span…zero speed and clipped in….slight camber and over I went…..landing on the derailleur side….ride ruined! Bike needs to go to the bike shop as I can’t get the gear changing back to as it was….being Campag this is likely to be expensive!
(Yep this was due to my lack of ability!!)

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New colours in coming, I'd have gone for the blue in the previous scheme... not sure now, maybe the Slate grey

I'm wondering if the standard spec gearing would be too high for some of the climbs I have in mind.... that's comparing to doing them on a slacker, probably heavier MTB though. How small can the GRX front ring go... or how big can the rear cog be?

GRX is 11-42 IIRC - not sure you can do more range than that officially though I’d bet bodges are available.

Front ring can be as small as you like but it depends on the crank. I’m actually on a SRAM MTB crank so I can go down to 28t direct mount or something silly. I’ve got 38t which feels like a good compromise for on / off road mixed.

Gravel bikes are lighter / zippier than MTBs but lack of rear sus means they’re not as capable on really techy climbs. If you’re determined to ride techy steep MTB trails you might find gravel gearing annoying but it’s not really what they’re for IMHO. If you’re trying to make an MTB replacement to exclusively ride MTB trails you are likely to be disappointed all round.

Just changed my bars to Specialized Hover bars with a 1.5cm rise width 46cm. Coming from their Bomber Bars, I've found climbing up steep road climbs much better now.
Also Sonder had fitted Alpha Aero wheels instead of the Alpha Gravel wheels, but changed them after I got in touch so well played Alpkit. Cant believe the difference in the bike since the wheels where changed.
Finally starting to appreciate the bike and how versatile it is.

IMO gearing is also about wanting to carry luggage on moderate or bigger climbs - ones where I want to sit and spin.

Yeah that’s true. Not something I do with mine currently but I could see that being useful if heavily laden going up an alp.

I ordered mine (in that sky blue above) on Wednesday. I went for the tiagra 2x because road miles are unavoidable. The handlebars do look pretty wild but easy enough to swap out. Should be here next week!

If you’re determined to ride techy steep MTB trails you might find gravel gearing annoying but it’s not really what they’re for IMHO.

The climbs I have in mind are gravel and not really techy. They are steep in places though. They are in the Pentlands, south of Edinburgh and mainly roads built by the army.