 You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Right im no DHer, but im not too shabby on a bike, i thank 15 years of BMX for that. Picked up a MTB a couple of years ago and got hooked on MTB.
If you had to describe me, i guess it would be a "trail" or "enduro???" rider. I ride my bike, anything exciting i see on the way that looks interesting i'll do, whether it be a steep, tight, techy descent or some flat put gaps, with the overall goal of turning every run into a flowing pump track/set of jumps. I call it MTBing, i guess most people would too.
Always had a 150ish bike that has served me well, never really felt underbiked, maybe under tyred at times, but not really underbiked. Most of my friends have DH bikes. I absolutely love MTBing on good runs, either really natural tech, or hard packed flowy runs you can turn into pump tracks/set of DJs. Rode "DH" tracks with buddies, always thought they were a bit meh, not really natural tech, not really flowy trails with good shaped jumps. Friends seemed to having a lot of fun on their DH bikes, i thought id get a DH bike and give that a go, really hasn't made what i was riding before any more fun, maybe makes things feel more removed, uninvolved, less fun. MTB purpose made jumps always seem to be a let down too, but i guess that's what you get after some of the best BMX trails in the UK and looking for that same buzz.
Is just where im riding "DH" rubbish?
Do i just need to get used the DH bike?
If i go do some uplifts such as cwncarn and stiniog, is this proper DH therefore will be infinitely more fun?
Do MTBers know how to make a good jump?
Pretty cool story ay, drunk ramblings after a mediocre afternoon of "DH".
Sounds like you've been pushing up stuff you could have just been riding up and down on on a "normal" bike?
Some "proper" DH tracks really don't need a "proper" DH bike, but can be more forgiving doing repeated runs. Some tracks I've ridden on a 160mm & felt a bit out of my depth on, some I really wouldn't fancy without the get out of jailness of 8 inches of travel 
There's a good chance you ride a lot more smoothly than others without the BMX background so don't *need* the bigger bike as much?
WTF are you on about? Jumps, Pumps, Flumps.. Who TF cares. If you like what you ride then great, happy days.
DH is a bit of a different mindset to regular riding, certainly uplift days are needed to get the most out of it
but thepayoff in terms of money spent vs riding time is maybe not s great
for me steep and techy is what makes DH fun, the double black at antur, innerleithen, nant gwtheryn and yeah cwmcarn, the longer the better too ,though I still enjoy aston.
the flyup downhill at forest of dean for example didnt really grab me
really to challenge yourself you need to get to the alps, theyve got the good stuff out there
never done fort william though I think thatd be worth it
I did kind of get into aston, surface to air was a bit of let down, once i got over the initial disappointment the very last jump was quite fun to go big off of. Their black or race track was really fun, I saw that as DH, fun and worthy of the DH bike.
Only other places i've ridden the DH bike is hindhead, rogate and tidworth, i think all of which aren't sufficiently tech (maybe hindhead in places) or have amazing jumps.
Maybe what i actually ride just doesn't necessitate a DH bike.
deanfbm - MemberRode "DH" tracks with buddies, always thought they were a bit meh, not really natural tech, not really flowy trails with good shaped jumps.
Downhill tracks are as varied as anything else though.
I don't really make the distinction any more, with innerleithen as my local I'll happilly do it on the trailbike or the 224 or the hardtail or very occasionally on the rigid bike. Raced fort william on my Hemlock, and so on. British people are still weird about this, we go out to Morzine or whatever on everyday bikes and just get on with it but back in the UK there's this big bold line between "What we do" and "Downhill" but it's all cobblers.
...with the overall goal of turning every run into a flowing pump track/set of jumps.
I know that's a great way to ride and an important part of getting quicker (and something I've been working on more recently) but I don't think that's what DH is about at all. I'm not someone who owns or has ridden a DH bike but what DH means to me is getting from the top to the bottom of a course as quickly as you possibly can, whether you're racing or not. There is 'flow' but it's hard to spot underneath the brutality of it!
I'm sure plenty of DHers spend time on their big bikes doing as you describe but they know the bikes are not really made for 'playing' on, they're made for riding at the absolute ragged edge, taking the fastest route possible - getting big air only when it's faster than staying closer to the ground (eg sending a big jump far enough to reach a back side).
A really strong 6" bike seems like what you need!
Is just where im riding "DH" rubbish?
Do i just need to get used the DH bike?
Yes and Yes.
A DH racebike, in the right hands and on the right track allows you to hit silly speeds. The hilarity begins once you start hitting speeds that remind you of riding a motorbike. A proper DH track also needs an uplift or a chairlift, places like Aston Hill are a bit shit - especially when you've ridden the bigger UK tracks such as Fort William or the World Cup race tracks out in Europe.
In fact, last time I came back from Europe and rode Aston Hill I got depressed and sold my DH bike.
There are a lot of different tracks out there...
I raced Pearce on a 6" hardtail when they still had a category for it. The tracks were all rideable on it and I did a load on my heckler too. I finally got a dh bike and some bits were a lot more fun after that.
There are some supremely capable trail bikes these days that will cope with a lot of hard riding, the difference with the DH bike is it throws the last couple of compromises out the window.
The it about natural is a really tough thing these days. Natural trails by definition are hard to build, they are even harder to maintain. The impact 300 riders has over a weekend which could be up to 3000 runs soon hammers most tracks especially in the wet. If your building something for that amount of riding then you will build it tougher which takes out things like big natural root sections and loose rock gardens. Other wise you will spend a long time maintaining the track.
Tracks like Aston Hill are not a bit shit. Ok , they may not be long but that just means you can fit in a lot of runs.
At the risk of sounding like a pompous baffoon, or a riding God that Im certainly not, it sounds like you arent really riding DH, you are trail riding on DH tracks. As you start hitting trails faster and faster the tracks evolve: you start hitting lines that initially didn't look possible, you start getting air of innocuous lumps, your braking points and lines in and out of corners become all important.
Just watch a pro ride a very simple track, or even fire road, and see how much they make of every undulation and corner.
As someone who spends most weekends at Dh tracks, there is a marked difference in speed and style between true DHers and everyone else. They seem to be riding a different trail, purely because the speed they carry.
Only other places i've ridden the DH bike is hindhead, rogate and tidworth, i think all of which aren't sufficiently tech (maybe hindhead in places) or have amazing jumps.Maybe what i actually ride just doesn't necessitate a DH bike.
There's your answer.
I've ridden a lot of uplifts on my cotic rocket 150mm trail bike with 160 36's up front. Only ever felt a DH bike would be better at antur stiniog and revolution bike park.
British people are still weird about this, we go out to Morzine or whatever on everyday bikes and just get on with it but back in the UK there's this big bold line between "What we do" and "Downhill" but it's all cobblers.
Totally agree
I have one bike (its all I can afford) that I use for everything. 160mm travel so maybe bit too much for some local trails but annual Alps trip and Inners etc really push me. The bike will handle everything, think its down to the rider? Look at the world champs where riders are on 160mm/170mm travel bikes. One of my mates bought a DH bike for Alps trip last June, used it for 3 days out there and its sat in his garage till we go away this June!
This thread is rad.
If you have access to upliftable trails then the DH bike makes more sense. If your racing it makes more sense.
I'm building a DH bike up at the minute, it's going to get plenty of use as there are 4/5 local tracks that we can self shuttle. I could ride them all (and have done on my 6" bikes) bit they will be more fun on a DH bike.
Look at the world champs where riders are on 160mm/170mm travel bikes.
Ffs not this line again. 1 track opens the option to be competitive (nobody has won yet) on a trail bike - that is all
I did kind of get into aston, surface to air was a bit of let down, once i got over the initial disappointment the very last jump was quite fun to go big off of. Their black or race track was really fun, I saw that as DH, fun and worthy of the DH bike.
If you like the black at Aston, get to Revolution Bike Park or Innerleithen.
I'm not keen on "bike park" style DH tracks myself but I do enjoy the more natural, steep, woodsy tracks where a 63deg headangle makes sense.
And +1 Legend - Jared Graves is the exception that proves the rule!
To me DH is a lift assisted day's riding where I get to do all the bits I enjoy doing without getting knackered riding up.
I see climbing as a challenge but, to me, the fun is going down as quick as I can without falling off and injuring myself. Uplift days allow me to do that as, because you can do the same run many times, I find I get quicker/smoother/more daring as the day progresses.
My current bike (170mm FS) is probably overkill for my normal riding but I'd rather have it as it is for the days where I can ride it to the max of my capabilities.
Would I have a dedicated DH bike? If I won the lottery, yes..
As you start hitting trails faster and faster the tracks evolve: you start hitting lines that initially didn't look possible, you start getting air of innocuous lumps, your braking points and lines in and out of corners become all important.
This is exactly how it occurs on my trail bike, on trails that i enjoy, the point of which i'm trying get to on any trail i ride, that's where it's most fun.
But, stick me on a DH bike, well even my trail bike, on these supposed DH spots, it just doesn't happen, either im not good enough at reading and interpreting the trails or it just doesn't happen on these trails. I do also find the DH bike does take away from being able to pump, link and makes up those gaps on the way down.
Yea, "bike park" style tracks, i dont think any in the UK are going to be whistler, found Morzine/les gets a let down in the "bike park" department too, the jumps are hardly ever any good.
I know what you mean about the jumps. Most have such a shallow take off that you have to go stupidly fast at them or pump as hard as you can to clear em, would welcome some steeper take offs! I dont think theres anything ive ridden over here that comes close to whistler bike park style trails, what Bikepark Wales needs is a run similar to Crank It Up, I'd be a very happy man!
I'm not really a fan of the man made tech stuff we have over here either, seems to lack flow!
I think the problem with DH bikes is that they take a lot of speed, commitment and skill to get the most from and it is a very different mindset to trail riding.
I have a 180mm travel, single crown DH bike and I think it perfect for UK tracks. I also rode it in Whistler last year and it was perfect for there too.
I don't think I am aggressive or committed enough to get the most from proper DH bike and therefore went with something that was scaled down little.
I have ridden both 160mm travel trail bikes and the bike I mention above (a Morewood Kalula) on DH tracks and I would say that the Morewood is by far and away the most fun bike I have ever ridden.
I wouldn't ride it uphill, but then again I have a hardtail for that type of riding.
I do also find the DH bike does take away from being able to pump, link and makes up those gaps on the way down.
Not going fast enough, not pumping hard/soon enough, running rebound too slow or compression too soft?
Yup, the most fun I've ever had on a bike was on an Ancilotti DH bike out in the Alps when my brother was riding with Aston Hills Junior team.
Different mindset, you can simply hit speeds and hold lines through the rough much better. Yes, riding becomes more point and shoot but it also allows you to let off the brakes more and the geometry/suspension gives you a margin of error to do things you wouldn't consider before (gapping rock gardens etc).