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Say you had 2 different commutes to the same place, one was 2.8 miles longer, but flatter - (12.8 miles, 400ft climbing) and the other shorter, but more hilly (10 miles, 750ft climbing), just how much faster would a (gravel) e-bike be?
Comparable bikes, same tyres (wtb horizon/byway), same geo, weight difference - 4kg.
On the flat commute, with no massive headwind you'd be able to average 15mph on the non e-bike, which would mean 50 minutes door to door. Lets also take it as 1 commute, not including the effect of multiple commutes or other riding.
The 10 mile route has the below profile:
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To make this 10 mile route in 35 minutes would need an average speed of 17mph. Doable? Presumably you'd be able to manage 15mph or just below, all the way up the climb (first 5 miles), and down the other side - 20-30mph depending on traffic conditions. Maybe an average of 14mph followed by 20mph for the next 5 miles, which would result in 36 minutes.
Driving would be 30 minutes door to door as a comparison.
This is all based on there being a (hypothetical) 700c/650b e-gravel bike at about £2k that might be launching soon (but not available for a few months unfortunately). 😉
Yeah, but who’s having more fun...
I used to do a 7 mile commute with 1000ft of climbing on the way in but only 100ft on the way home and about 20 sets of lights. For 2 years on a ordinary bike, for 2 years on an ebike. Ordinary bike 45 mins in, 30 home. ebike 35 mins in 28 home
so IME an ebike only make a difference when climbing. ON the flat its if anything a wee bit slower. Downhill no differnce
The bloke doing the hilly ride of course.
Yeah, but who’s having more fun…
Haha, true - but this is purely for 'getting there' purposes.
Basically, if the e-gravel bike commute is realistically doable in 35-40 mins, it means the difference between being able to commute by bike 40% of the time vs 80% of the time.
I used to do a 7 mile commute with 1000ft of climbing on the way in but only 100ft on the way home and about 20 sets of lights. For 2 years on a ordinary bike, for 2 years on an ebike. Ordinary bike 45 mins in, 30 home. ebike 35 mins in 28 home
so IME an ebike only make a difference when climbing. ON the flat its if anything a wee bit slower. Downhill no differnce
Interesting - the direct, shorter route is basically up for 5 miles then down for 5 miles (with a short up at the end), so that would make it ideal for an e-bike.
I will say this is just one possible route, for when I just want to get there as fast and efficiently as possible. It would also make it the cheapest option despite the extra cost of the bike.
Other benefit might be arriving less sweaty, put it in turbo and do the hilly route.
I'm sure there's is supposed to be a train leaving at the same time going in the other direction.
Wouldn't it partly depend on the conditions of each? E.g. if one has a long down hill that should be fast but if you have to stop for a crossroad or something every 100 yards than you arent going to make up as much time as you otherwise would.
Not sure what you mean about a train cromolyolly?
There's not much in the way of stopping anywhere along the route tbh, maybe a few lights but not that often.
I seem to recall these math questions in school always had two trains leaving at the same time travelling toward each other at different speeds and having to work out where they meet.
I would have thought the ebike would be sustainably faster under any conditions. The battery will wear out but the motor won't. Or am I missing a trick?
Just delimit and stop playing with the calculator! 😆
Too many variables
I do 18km with a descent climb either end.
My rove non electric bike is often quicker. Fastest time being 40 minutes into a brutal headwind it can be an hour 10
On the electric bike it's absolutely always 52 minutes. And I can step off and walk into the office .
That's the benifit it removes the uncertainness perfect for client meetings etc.
Traffic, roundabouts and traffic lights make the biggest impact to my commute.
My ebike is 25 mins faster than the train/car/walk option and 30 minutes faster than the car/walk and 120 mins faster than walking on my 10 mile commute.
That’s why I use it, but no help to you at all 👍
Yeah, but who’s having more fun…
This.
Yeah, but who’s having more fun…
This. geex
Just delimit
Yep. The speed ebikes are governed at maybe okay off road but for on road on anything not particularly hilly they are not really going to be much quicker are they.
Why not just get an electric motorbike or even a 50cc scooter if you need to get somewhere more quickly, not needing to change, not getting sweaty etc,. ?
I commute. The problem I find is that after a few days/weeks in a row I feel it in my legs and then on an evening I sometimes feel like I'm running low on energy. Then when it comes to the weekend ride and the weather's not very nice I think, it's OK, I cycled to work this week, I'll do something else and cycle to work on monday. My ride to work is a nice ride which I enjoy.
It's easy to find excuses when the weather's not good, you are tired, you have lots on and so little time now mini D is here.
I suspect with a 30 min ebike route each way the fatigue wouldn't be the same leaving you wanting to ride to work more and get out on a weekend?
I had a similar conundrum before I went for an e-bike. 13 miles each way, not especially hilly.
On the flat 15mph of the motor is a bit limiting, you just end up pedalling a heavy numb bike because it's easy to go faster than 15. It's on the hills up where you gain and on the downhills you don't lose.
It's about the same time on my e-bike but for a 3rd less power according to the power meter. If it weren't for the comfort of proper cycling clothes and needing to get changed because of this, I could get to work in my office clothes and walk straight in without any kind of sweat on.
The primary benefit is the lack of effort, feeling fresher for doing stuff other than the commute. If it is quicker then that's even better.
Why not just get an electric motorbike or even a 50cc scooter if you need to get somewhere more quickly, not needing to change, not getting sweaty etc,. ?
License.
Insurance.
MOT.
No exercise at all.
Not riding a bike.
I seem to recall these math questions in school always had two trains leaving at the same time travelling toward each other at different speeds and having to work out where they meet.
Ahh, yes - although this one is more like 2 trains leaving at the same time but averaging different speeds and doing different distances 😀
I suspect with a 30 min ebike route each way the fatigue wouldn’t be the same leaving you wanting to ride to work more and get out on a weekend?
Exactly this, and it would let me do the bike commute more often as I wouldn't need to leave before 6am on the early shift to get there at 7am and get showered - I could leave 30 minutes later.
I'd still mix up the commute when I'm not in a rush, there's plenty of non direct route options to get there that are a lot more enjoyable.
You might save a bit of time, but (Even assuming the e parts just work forever) you'll have to charge the ebike, negating some of that time saving.
Having just taken the flat route into work at recovery pace with a headwind, an ebike would've saved me a tiny bit of time (slowest flat segment was 14.5mph or so) - bigger headwinds are of course available. But the hillier route might be more practical for a recovery day if I had an ebike.
My guess would be that flat out, both those rides would be pretty comparable paces on an ebike, but you're not going to want to go flat out every day. I reckon your shorter route will still be faster by normal bike than the longer route.
I'm still not gonna buy one, I have a hub dynamo precisely because I can't be bothered charging lights on the commuter!
Charging won't be an issue - garage/shed with power so I'd get home and plug it straight in to charge, wouldn't even need to remove the battery.
The shorter route might be as fast but much harder work.
If it was just a flat commute then the ebike wouldn't make sense as I'd be sitting at 20mph on a gravel bike most of the time.
Oh and this is the ebike I'd be looking at:
Ribble CGR AL E
I was looking at the Vitus Substance CRX at £1800 as the nice option, with the Ribble CGR AL as the cheaper option at £1100, but the CGR AL E at £2099 shakes things up a bit... I would however need something cheap for a few hundred to tide me over as Ribble reckon end of August for these.
Have you thought about just getting a fast road bike instead? It might well be as fast as the gravel ebike over both rides.
I find my (coincidentally 4kg lighter than my normal commuter) road bike saves a good couple of minutes regardless of the route I take (it does have lower bars and faster tyres too), and lighter bikes are just nicer to ride. Obviously I can't take luggage etc, but you're looking at something a bit cheaper and likely faster on the flat route, on a par on the hills, ish.
you’ll have to charge the ebike, negating some of that time saving.
You don't have to watch it charge, you can still go off and watch paint dry if you want.
One advantage I can see for commuting is that in filthy weather you can dress appropriately without having to balance waterproofing and warmth with breathability to quite the same degree.
Have you thought about just getting a fast road bike instead? It might well be as fast as the gravel ebike over both rides.
No, I want/need the bigger tyres as part of any commute would be on broken tarmac/potholed b roads, gravel/dirt bridleways, and other light off road.
A pure road bike severely limits the routes I could take and would probably make the commute a good 3-4 miles longer. And less enjoyable - no 'long way' rides. Pure road has zero appeal for me.
Once I got the ebike I certainly had more energy for riding for fun on my days off
You don’t have to watch it charge, you can still go off and watch paint dry if you want.
Er. I am aware of this, but when you're talking potentially a couple of minutes saved, you could wipe it all out just flicking switches and tucking cables away.
Fair do's on the road bike, I just know a few people seem to go for unnecessarily burly bikes for the commute (it would cope fine a lot but not all of what you're talking about riding, I see far too many gravel/CX bikes being ridden purely on road!).
My friend has just bought a Cytronex - which he's retrofitted to his Surly "gravel" bike.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">The </span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Cytronex maxes out at 15mph but really saves your legs on the climb (his commute is 30 miles with a 4-mile, 1000ft+ climb in the middle). He says it's absolutely awesome: the motor just kicks in when you need it.</span>
That looks very similar to the ribble system, it's a rear hub motor with a fully integrated battery.
I wouldn't need to charge it at work, probably only need to charge it every other day when at home, and I'm not bothered about when I get home, it's the not having to get up at silly hour to be able to cycle in that I'm interested in!
The August availability on the CGR AL e might be a blessing as well, as I'll be good for C2W at that point after my 6 month probation so would be able to get a £1000 C2W voucher to put towards it.
Might need to keep my eyes out for a used CX/gravel bike in XL over the next few weeks!
it’s the not having to get up at silly hour to be able to cycle in that I’m interested in!
Don't understand - How does saving 10 or so minutes change a silly hour into a sensible hour?
It's 50-55 minutes on the regular commute, so an hour minimum to be safe and then extra to have time for a shower when I get there - to get there at 7am I'd need to be out the door at 5:45-5:50am.
Ebike at 17mph average would be 35 minutes, possibly not need a shower and so could leave at 6:20am. If driving I'd be leaving at 6:25am so it's the same time roughly.
This is exactly what this thread is trying answer - just how much quicker would an ebike be. If it only cuts it down to 45 minutes then it's not worth it, but if it's nearer to 30 minutes it makes the commute doable by bike.
I know what I'm like, and getting up at 6am I can manage. 5:30am, even though its only 30 minutes earlier, is just not going to happen 😀
Basically, I'm trying to see how true this is:
Rode the first 4.5 miles (the uphill bit) on my 14.5kg, FS bike with 30psi knobbies, and averaged 9.4mph, the first 1.8 miles of undulating stuff with a couple of road crossings at 12.3mph average and the 2.7 mile, 550ft climb at 8.7mph average.
So I reckon on something with much faster rolling tyres which would give an extra 1 mph average up the climb, which means nearly 10mph average up the climb without a motor, adding another 250w to my output should see me easily average 15mph up that climb.
Took 30 minutes on the MTB for the first 4.5 miles, so even averaging 16mph for the other 5.5 miles that makes it 50 minutes in total, with a shower that's an hour, so 1hr10 to be safe.
I think an e-bike will be perfect for this commute, 35 minutes is possible for sure. There's a couple of months before the bike is released so I'll do it again on a similar weight hybrid with skinny slick tyres and see how long it takes me to get up the climb on that.
This seems like a classic case of over thinking. It's obvious you want a new ebike and are looking for external permission.
Crack on. Go and order it now we all just want you to be happy 😀
Haha, it's not, believe me! Just trying to work if it's actually worth it.
It’s not worth it for other people. Me, I’d be happy doing your commute on a non ebike. But if it’s what you want go for it. Speed isn’t the be all and end all.
My commute is a fairly hilly mix of road and off road, currently being done on a Trek Domane with 33mm knobbly tyres, 9 miles each way. It’s fun. I wake up looking forward to it. Some days I smash it, some days I could be overtaken by a granny on a shopping bike.
I still think should I buy a new hardtail, or a 47mm gravel bike, which ever I chose, I’ll still want the other.