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me and my lad were riding back into sheffield this morning, from eyam.
while we were riding towards town, we were passed in the opposite direction by 3 huge road gangs of cyclists.
i reckon there were 20 or 30 in each group, riding 2 or 3 abreast.
it is amazing that cycling is so popular, but is this type of group riding a good idea?
riding into a very busy area (peak district) on narrow roads in such big groups.
good or bad?
*puts on kettle* etc
I think it's a shit idea and one of the main reasons I stopped club riding.
good and bad.
Our local club run can be 20-30 but then we have good quiet roads. Personally I prefer our race team training rides as they are normally a max of 8 and much more disciplined.
Is 20-30 riders much worse than a tractor, caravan or horse box.
Good for cyclists, bad for cars.
Pick a side and be a dick about it.
There a pain in the arse when trying to over take also riding 3 abreast are just being pricks i ****ing hate rodies in groups they just come across as ingnorant pricks.
Even on the way to Delamere on side roads (country lanes) you get groups of 5 riding 3 abreast taking there time chatting away holding people up just bloody ingnorant IMO
Should spit into smaller groups and staggered times, great to see people out on bikes but as road users they should show consideration for other road uses.
There a pain in the arse when trying to over take also riding 3 abreast are just being pricks i **** hate rodies in groups they just come across as ingnorant pricks.
Why is 3 abreast any harder to overtake than two abreast? Or even one if you're fully crossing to the other side of the road?
Not an issue until every club in the country start organising club runs on just two significant routes, which is how it's going to be this summer and probably for the next few years. I'm really looking forward to trying to get up and down Wharfedale and Bishopdale this summer
If the roads are wide enough......
Sportive came through the village the other day. On both sides of the road. Asshats.
Safety in numbers. So a good thing I say.
Of course, they should have consideration to any other road users .. just the same as other road users should have consideration for them.
2 or 3 abreast is ok if theres ample space to overtake.
This is going to be big year for cycling, big groups are possibly a bad thing but way better than one truck.
30 people strung out single file inevitably leads to cars cutting in the middle or squeezing past when they misjudge the distance and time required to overtake.
There a pain in the arse when trying to over take also riding 3 abreast are just being pricks i **** hate rodies in groups they just come across as ingnorant pricks.
Better stay away from busy motorways, I have been stuck behind thousands of cars, nose to tail 3, 4 or even 5 abreast, pricks. 🙄
I was cycling through town the other day about 5pm. Motorists everywhere, all trying to use the same roads at the same time. Total chaos. No consideration for other road users. Dicks.
If said truck was moving at <20mph.
Bad thing IMO, not a fan of riding in big groups either, so it's a no in both camps for me.
Loads of cyclists out yesterday on the roads in the Surrey Hills, stopping on junctions and just standing around in the road. Saw more stood around than riding. It's no wonder car drivers get annoyed half the time!
Oops. I was trying to be a smartarse but took too long about it.
horseboxes
horses
groups of walkers (no pavement)
tractors
towing large trailers
groups of old car enthusiasts on a rally
groups of motorcyclists on popular summer roads
coaches
caravans
cyclists
old people in charge of motorcars
all doing their thing, all potentially stopping you from doing as you please, deal with it and find a coping mechanism.
Good for cyclists, bad for cars.Pick a side and be a dick about it.
Sums up all of these debates
I think if you ride in big groups you know why you do this but yes a large number of any type of vehicle is going to get in your way be it 30 folk on horses, in tractors,on their way to a funeral , driving to the supermarket
TBH what really annoys me is the way they all try to get to work at the same time as me the bastards.
How you deal with it is your issue as they are shared use spaces and they are perfectly entitled to be there.
Were they wheelie'ing whilst text "their Julie" 😆
I say get over it, everyone's entitled to ride, some choose to, some don't.
Too big I'd say. One local club, the Verulam has about fifty plus every Sunday which is a lot. They split into five or more groups.
Why is 3 abreast any harder to overtake than two abreast? Or even one if you're fully crossing to the other side of the road?
Quite obvious really. They're harder to see through/round,even on a straight road.
Also, on a narrow two lane road it is possible for a driver to leave adequate space when overtaking two abreast, but with three abreast,even on a clear straight road it may not be possible to leave sufficient room.
Even on the way to Delamere on side roads (country lanes) you get groups of 5 riding 3 abreast taking there time chatting away holding people up just bloody ingnorant IMO
so you were holding up other people just so you could DRIVE to go ride a bicycle????
We have about 60 riders on a sunny day. But groups are broken down into no more than 8. Faster groups go first, and you can't just merge if you catch a slower group. "Through and off" works best with about 7 riders, anyway. I have no issues with two abreast if the riders are disciplined.
on the rare occasion a horsebox/roadie group/tractor/wagon moves out the way to allow faster moving traffic past on country roads it restore my faith in humanity.
Cyclist have as much right to the road but you have to except that people will want to overtake and creating situations where danger is likely to occur is not a good idea. Large groups on rural roads are a problem as it can be impossible to overtake for potentially miles. The key is to split the group into short block so people can overtake in stages. Long spread-out groups can be dangerous, or at least result in dangerous driving. It doesn't matter who is technically in the wrong the danger is created. Also in large groups people are more likely to act like dicks. This is why I stop doing group riding.
TiRed - Member
We have about 60 riders on a sunny day. But groups are broken down into no more than 8. Faster groups go first, and you can't just merge if you catch a slower group. "Through and off" works best with about 7 riders, anyway. I have no issues with two abreast if the riders are disciplined.
This is the way to do it! To be honest its basic group riding skills in some respects but skills that many don't know or think about or adhere to.
Cyclist have as much right to the road
Wrong, they have more rights than motorists.
As subjects of her majesty we have the inalienable right to walk, cycle and ride a horse on the queens highway, motorists are merely licensed, this privilege can be revoked by the state at any time.
There's a club near me that feel the need to shout at each other about everything...The cars, the gravel, the junctions, the potholes, the Trees (I shit you not). They seem happy enough though, and always (weirdly) I only ever meet them going the other way.
Whatever floats yer boat, some folk love the whole club thing, the rides, the banter, whatever. some don't, s'all good.
Riding in a group takes discipline. I'd agree that big groups are just counter-productive in that they p*** other road users off. A group of around 8 - 12 is ideal, any smaller and you don't really get the benefit of being a group - drafting, etc., any larger and it's hard to keep things under control.
There's so many variables about when and where you should go single line both for the safety of the group and for the convenience of others, which are often perceived to be at odds with one another.
There's a wide variation in the ability of cyclists to ride in a group (I'd put myself somewhere in the middle - still a lot to learn), the worst group rider in our club is from a mountain biking background, he just can't ride in a group: inconsistent speed/effort; riding against the flow of the group. We'll get him in to shape, even if the air turns a little blue!
[i]There a pain in the arse when trying to over take also riding 3 abreast are just being pricks i **** hate rodies in groups they just come across as ingnorant pricks.
Even on the way to Delamere on side roads (country lanes) you get groups of 5 riding 3 abreast taking there time chatting away holding people up just bloody ingnorant IMO[/i]
You do know you're supposed to give cyclists 3 metres overtaking room don't you so you would need to move to the other side of the road to overtake. I guess you don't know that or care.
You do know you're supposed to give cyclists 3 metres overtaking room don't you so you would need to move to the other side of the road to overtake. I guess you don't know that or care.
3metres? utter bollocks!
They'll get 3 inches and think themselves grateful!
You do know you're supposed to give cyclists 3 metres overtaking room don't you so you would need to move to the other side of the road to overtake
On half the roads I drive on you'd have to move to the other side of the hedges or drive along people's front gardens.
It's great to see anyone out on a bike, but let's not kid ourselves, big groups of roadies are a pain, I'm content to sit behind and wait for a safe overtake, but when it's a big group that can take a while
The big difference is, people going about their business on bikes are normally alone
[i]On half the roads I drive on you'd have to move to the other side of the hedges or drive along people's front gardens.[/i]
Best just squeeze past then.
I also ride on those very same roads.
And what is your solution?
I lead a club group ride each Saturday. We had sixteen in my group this week and I reckon that's about as many as I'd comfortably take out in a group. Any larger and I reckon we'd start to cause a moving hazard on some of the smaller roads.
You do know you're supposed to give cyclists 3 metres overtaking room don't you so you would need to move to the other side of the road to overtake
1 Metre but you're supposed to be in the other lane.
Edit: Oops! Getting mixed up it's the cyclist who should be a metre away from the kerb the driver in the other carriageway.
Good for cyclists, bad for cars.Pick a side and be a dick about it.
Best comment for a long time 🙂
You do know you're supposed to give cyclists 3 metres overtaking room don't you so you would need to move to the other side of the road to overtake. I guess you don't know that or care.
You're also meant to never ride more than 2 abreast, and even then only on wide, quiet, straight roads.
https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82/overview-59-to-71
Pick a side and be a dick about it.
🙂
Certainly seems to be the way you approach any wheel size discussion. 😛
You're also meant to never ride more than 2 abreast, and even then only on wide, quiet, straight roads.
read it again, it doesn't say that... or at least not in the way you are assuming it does.
And it certainly doesn't define what a busy road is.
Regardless of who's right or wrong (and I think most groups will probably do the right thing with a bit of experience), I feel we need to be more tolerant of vulnerable road users.
The thing about 2-abreast is interesting.
Let's say you're in a group of 12 riding neatly 2 abreast. At some point , the 2 on the front are going to get tired and will want to drop to the back so they swing out, single up and allow the remaining 10 to come past on their inside. You can guarantee that this is now the moment that a dozen cars all get up behind the pack and want to come past. They won't understand the reasoning behind the temporary 3-abreast, they'll just see a random pack of "bloody cyclists" taking up the whole road.
Factor in that riding a perfect line of 2-abreast is almost impossible in this country - crap road surfaces, narrow lanes, even slightly differing abilities within the bunch, hills, wind... all conspire to make truly organised 2-abreast riding something of a utopian ideal to be aspired to rather than something that actually happens.
All of this adds up to mean that you basically do get a pack of bloody cyclists all over the road.
Let's say you're in a group of 12 riding neatly 2 abreast. At some point , the 2 on the front are going to get tired and will want to drop to the back so they swing out, single up and allow the remaining 10 to come past on their inside.
My experience, riders on front talk to each other, rider on right moves in front and to the left, rider in second row on the right moves to the front. Repeat until ride ends.
But yes crap road surfaces do mean that however neat you try and be it never works out, hit a hill and the weaker riders fall back regardless of where they are in the group. etc.
if folk are still riding like that Crazy then they are doing it wrong, chain gangs are called that for a reason, the inside line coming up and the outside lane going back so never more than two abreast
I saw a huge group of cyclists today, 40-50 I reckon. 4 wide. Massive queue of cars behind them.
I also saw huge amounts of cars, all driving along in big lines, causing problems for everyone else.
Only one of these activities kills people. So while I personally think big groups should show some discipline, probably time to get some perspective.
samuri - Member
Only one of these activities kills people. So while I personally think big groups should show some discipline, probably time to get some perspective.
50 cyclists crashing into you would probably kill you 😀
Happen.
Although I've never, ever heard of a cyclist or even a huge massive group of cyclists killing a driver in their car. I wish the opposite could be said.
grum - Member
You do know you're supposed to give cyclists 3 metres overtaking room don't you so you would need to move to the other side of the road to overtake. I guess you don't know that or care.
You're also meant to never ride more than 2 abreast, and even then only on wide, quiet, straight roads.https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82/overview-59-to-71
Pick a side and be a dick about it.
Certainly seems to be the way you approach any wheel size discussion.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO #
Has the bit about single file on narrow or busy roads been added recently?
Oh actually just realised its in the "should " category .
It's great seeing so many cyclists out these days... time to celebrate I should say.
Anyone who has a problem with cyclists 'taking up the road' should take a closer look next time they're in a traffic jam and ask themselves whether the traffic jam would still be there if everyone was on bikes instead...
That said, groups of 10+ are tricky to handle unless all 10 are experienced and working well as a group. My club is overhauling the club runs to deal with the recent growth so that we can get back to smaller groups rather than one big one.
It would be help if drivers recognised that what they think is a 'big group' may actually be total strangers to each other - separate groups who're momentarily riding along the same road
Road gangs?
Full of simmering middle aged rage at twice-monthly sex at home and need to impress other males at how much cycling cadence that they can keep up?
one pack we saw today took up the entire road. We had to let them know we wanted go pass. A lot. And we were on bikes by the way.
Yes, clubs need to provide a bit of guidance. There's ways of doing things that have worked for a very long time. Do that.
I've "only" been hit by cars twice. Both times have been when I have been single file. The first in a group of 2, the second with a group of 12. The second tome resulted in my collar bone in 5 pieces. My mistake was I did not take up enough space on the road and the guy thought overtaking on a blind bend was fine as he had the option of taking me off the road. Frankly if a big group slows some cars down for a few minutes it is not the end of the world
For god's sake, hasn't anyone seen the important issue here?
It's "'My lad and I"!
Not "Me and my lad"', "my lad and I"!!!
Ffs
All I can add is leave the horse box alone , firstly they can go quicker in a national limit than a big truck and second they are Great to slip in behind for a strava segment
It's easier to pass 30 cyclists in a mob 2 or 3 abreast than it is to pass 30 cyclists travelling in dribs and drabs. Course, there are right times and wrong times but mostly, if you're not able to pass riders riding 2 abreast, you shouldn't have dreamed of passing a single rider, and if you can't pass a line of riders you shouldn't have passed one.
Factor in that riding a perfect line of 2-abreast is almost impossible in this country
Through and off - when I lead a ride the two lines are one handlebar width apart. I expect good group riding skills and train people to ride in groups accordingly. Most people make the mistake of trying to go fast in a group, when they should be riding smoothly - speed then comes naturally. Nine is the largest number for a group, seven works better.
30 would be chaos!
Anyone who rides on the road is mental, unless commuting or going from trail to trail.
Heck, just listen to some of tge sanctimonious bell ends on this thread. Wrong in the head, yo.
As Tired says. It's not difficult, but some riders (mamils, cough cough) have missed out on all the groundwork.
I train with "cadetes" (age 13-15 in the spanish system) and if they can do it...
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even the mamils on the Saturday chaingang can do it!
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hora - MemberRoad gangs?
Full of simmering middle aged rage at twice-monthly sex at home and need to impress other males at how much cycling cadence that they can keep up?
How are your 27 mile, with a pub stop in the middle, road 'training' rides going?
even the mamils on the Saturday chaingang can do it!
And notice the room given by the car!!!
That is the real issue, drivers believing they have total right of way with no regard to another road user. Being held up for a few minutes, how much difference does it actually make to the average car journey.
yesterday I over took a single cyclist, i crossed fully on to the to her side of the road and passed at a decreased spead. the cyclist moved from there middle of the lane position to thewhite line, when i stoped at 4 way traffic lights they coaught me and started giving me abuse for crossing to the other lane saying I was taking the piss with the amount of room.
You cant win from either side just smile and be happy.
As in all these things it's a matter of courtesy.
Someone in the amateur "peloton" could possibly realise they are causing some frustration in other road users. But if they did they wouldn't be riding with all the other ignoramuses...
I've been a cyclist all my life, even ran a club for a while. Sacked it due to indiscipline on the road.
I hate riding in groups and stick to the trails/lanes now.
C
Crispedwheel just fine thanks. Sex is tiring tho 😉
Drivers coming up behind a big group of cyclists, tractor, sheep being moved, sunday bimbly, lost people, bus or just people driving slightly slower than them seems to cause frustration. It all goes back to respecting other people which is the cause of most of the problems out in the world these days.
Walkers don't want mountain bikers
Mountain Bikers object to ramblers objecting
Mountain bikers annoyed that horse riders exist
Horse riders annoyed by mountain bikers
and
hora - Member
Road gangs?Full of simmering middle aged rage at twice-monthly sex at home
everyone else who has to remove Hora's spy cams from our bedrooms
Why is 3 abreast any harder to overtake than two abreast? Or even one if you're fully crossing to the other side of the road?
The problem with this is the issue the cyclist closest to the centre line has with being overtaken so closely, despite driver doing everything "by the book". Driver is completely in the other lane when overtaking, but because cyclist has read the Highway Code and expects the car to give a car's width when overtaking regardless of cyclists position in the road, cyclist then gesticulates like an arse when car passes and driver has the "bloody cyclists think they own the road" mindset reinforced.
I find that if you keep groups small and leave all the through and off tripe at home and just ride you have zero problems.
Two abreast wheel to wheel with riders of the same ability and just come through when you want, it's all natural and fluid.
Why has riding in groups on the Sunday bun run become rocket science?
Three abreast! no need.
Through and off all day long, you can keep that.
And lets stop with the vocals, my club has a long list of calls I'm on a mission to do away with them.
Car up! I know it's a road I expect cars
Car down! ditto
Slowing! I know as you are slowing.
Stopping! ditto.
Lights! what the big red shiny thing.
Gravel! Yep I can see that as I'm looking where I'm going.
Pot holes! No shit, and shouting it is useless....where left right? Clear! I'll decide before pulling out.
Unclipping! okay 😕
Have you noticed I always post a grumpy on Monday morning.
As Tired says. It's not difficult, but some riders (mamils, cough cough) have missed out on all the groundwork.
I remember getting into a break of about 7 at a road race once and we worked perfectly, through and off for 50 miles. Of course we had motorbike outriders and marshalled junctions and no traffic trying to overtake but get it right and a chaingang is poetry in motion, it feels effortless. The world shrinks to you, the other riders and a blur of wheels.
I've done chaingangs a few times in France and Spain and the combination of wider, smoother roads, better attitude from drivers, less of an "entitlement" atitude from the riders means that it generally works very well. The best/worst one was hooking up with a bunch of neo-pros in Majorca once. We were absolutely dying trying to stay with them. They were sitting up, hands on the tops, chatting away.
Have you noticed I always post a grumpy [s]on Monday morning[/s].
Yes,it must be very draining.
And lets stop with the vocals, my club has a long list of calls I'm on a mission to do away with them.
You maybe need to go out on your own more.
Full of simmering middle aged rage at twice-monthly sex at home and need to impress other males at how much cycling cadence that they can keep up?
Twice a month? It's been over six months for me - how do I join this twice a month club?
JCL - MemberGood for cyclists, bad for cars.
Pick a side and be a dick about it.
That would make a pretty good T-shirt I reckon.
Ride alone, solves all the problems.
Consideration for other road users whether that bike, car, horse etc.
The problem is there are ignorant folk that use all these forms of transport and the bad seem to tarnish the good.
There seems to be some sort of neanderthal mentality that ingratiates itself into roadie group rides. Met about 20 of them one sunny day while I circulated a roundabout. I had intended to take the third turning off, but as the f****s streamed into the roundabout without even slowing, I had to a quick rethink and do another full circuit, as the alternative would have had lycra all over my bonnet.
We are not even talking about a big old roundabout, just a small 20m across unit with no vegetation on it.
Collective intelligence drops to an IQ that can be plotted in single digits. Surprising, considering the amount of cash these boys throw at their bikes, they are, I am pretty sure, reasonable, intelligent and gregarious away from the "pack". So if you are "one of them" - stop it!!!
OK so there's one "huge road gang" roundabout anecdote - how many can you think of involving neanderthal car driving f****s ? A few more than one I'd guess.
I don't know about the UK but Spanish road rules treat a group of riders as one vehicle, so if the roundabout was clear when the first rider entered it, you'd have to give priority to the last riders even if you were already on the roundabout. Same goes for traffic lights, junctions etc. I must admit it takes some faith in drivers knowing this when you go through a red light and the traffic going across has started to move...
Same goes for traffic lights, junctions etc. I must admit it takes some faith in drivers knowing this when you go through a red light and the traffic going across has started to move...
Ah...I'm begining to see the problem. You think this is a good idea or acceptable?
Same goes for traffic lights, junctions etc. I must admit it takes some faith in drivers knowing this when you go through a red light and the traffic going across has started to move...
I'll use that one when driving through town, it will make it much easier to get through
OK so there's one "huge road gang" roundabout anecdote - how many can you think of involving neanderthal car driving f****s ? A few more than one I'd guess.
^This
I had a heated discussion with someone the other day that was the stereotypical bikes-on-roads argument. What irritated me most was her tarring-with-the-same-brush mentality. There are irresponsible road users out there; sometimes they are on a bike and sometimes they are in a car.
You think this is a good idea or acceptable?
Doesn't matter what I think, does it? It's the law.
Doesn't matter what I think, does it? It's the law.
Ah apologies, I hadn't realised thats actually Spanish law. Crikey, can't see that going down well in the UK!