[Closed] Hubs, do we just buy Hope ones or should I be looking elsewhere?

That or DT Swiss.

I do... they've been just superb for me and never needed anything at all...

Pro2 first and then recently Pro4... Superb.

Definitely Hope for me, they just work and even my old Pro2 still has spares available for it.

I really like my Hope hubs. I've run Ti-glides through to Pro 4.

However, I'm loving the silence, low rolling resistance and instant soft pick-up of my Onyx Vesper hub.

Shimano all the way for me these days.

I've got the Pro 4 rear on both my main wheelsets. They are very good for what I want.

Front hub doesn't matter so much, so perhaps save a few quid there.

Only the rear hub matters. Don't spend anything on a front hub, the cheapest cartridge bearing one will do.

I love the hope Pro4 hubs they are easy to work on anf very reliable but the 8.2 degree engagement is sometimes annoying.

I'm trying an Industry Nine Hydra rear hub at the moment with 0.52 degree engagement.

I think it feels great and allows me to control power input better but its expensive. I can't comment on reliability yet either.

@Onzadog - there's a slight difference in price between Hope and Onyx!!! I've seen rolling resistance tests that suggest the Hope and Onyx are about the same.

The only downside to Hope is that the freehub splines get chewed up by the cassette.

@TheGhost - I've got Industry Nine Torch hubs on my fat bike with (from memory) 3.6deg engagement. I don't really notice much difference between that and the Hope.

Hope Pro4 or DT 350 are at a fairly similar level and cost. I’d go with whichever I could get the best deal on at the time.

That said I’m running Pro4’s on one mtb / Dt370’s on another / Hunt on my road bike. All going ok so far and most are at least 2 years old and not needed any maintenance so far.

Hunt are the loudest and probably wouldn’t want them on my mtb / Hope 2nd loudest but I’ve grown to like the freehub noise / 370’s are the quietest but still a loud louder than say Shimano.

I wouldn’t personally buy Shimano hubs because of the cup and cone maintenance and my mate has snapped a couple of rear axles and (1) he’s not very heavy (2) he doesn’t send big jumps or drops and has a reasonable full suss bike.

DT Swiss for me have worked perfectly for years.

DO NOT buy E13 hubs, whatever you do and whatever the price. They dont work, they are made by engineers who use a worn out wooden primary school ruler to measure tollerances with and then only ever ride in dusty dry conditions for five minutes.

Personally I've had nothing but issues with rear Hope Pro 4 hubs having awful sealing (serviced by LBS, not me) and have gone through springs, pawls and bearings alarmingly quickly - on 2 different wheelsets. Fronts have been trouble free, but wouldn't have another Hope rear - could do with boost hubs for my Solaris but won't be getting Hopes when it comes time to replace the existing - prob go DT Swiss next time.

+1 Hope. They aren't as reliable as some reckon but they are straightforward to service, and easy to modify in terms of axles/caps etc. so still represent a good option.

+1 Avoid E13. Rubbish.

I often wonder what the 3rd choice of hub is after hope or DT, surely there must be a half decent more budget hub?

Well Novatec are a widely available lower-priced option, and they also make hubs for companies including Nukeproof and Hunt.

Their basic models, the 771/772 IIRC, is what used to be the Superstar Switch - which was very reliable. So they are a solid choice for budget wheels - but you have to buy them on eBay or aliexpress as they're not really marketed at consumers.

I've had mixed results with their fancier models, the D462 rear failed more than once.

DT for me - really nice quality and the bearings stay smooth longer than Hope. I have Hope hubs on my XC race wheels and the bearings in them last about 18 months while I've had some DT 350s on my main bike for two years which still feel dead smooth despite being used more. The freehub mechanism is more reliable too.

Superstar hubs work well for me - my current rear MTB wheel has one and it's doing very well. I also have a front hub on my dirt/jump/messing about bike. All is well after several years of pretty typical British MTB riding ;o)

Cartridge bearings and reasonable weight and very reasonable cost.

YMMV of course ;o)

Another DT user but never used anything else since I bought them.

If you want a cheaper option just go with Shimano IMO. They are cupn'cone but can be adjusted and maintained easily with a few simple tools. They do a boost microspline hub for under 30 quid now...
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-fh-mt510-b-center-lock-rear-hub-12x148mm-847111

Should probably have specified, I'll be using an HG 11 speed cassette as I've got a very low miles XT setup to throw on the bike, as well as some XT brakes.

The XT boost 148 hubs are very well priced, but I'm not sure that cup and cone bearings are really what I need for a bike that's going to get absolutely swamped in mud regularly. (the mud around here is thick, sinky, boggy, clay like stuff).

I often wonder what the 3rd choice of hub is after hope or DT, surely there must be a half decent more budget hub?

Shimano if you never need to convert them to another axle, otherwise Novatec. Bitex and Powerway just behind them, super light in some configurations, but also a bit fragile in others.

I've previously always used Hope. Have Superstar V6 on my current wheelset and they seem good. Have had the freehub off and it's dry inside, which is the usual problem I've seen with poor hubs in the UK.

The DT 350 has the better ratchet engineering. Mostly academic, but home cleaning it out is a very simple procedure.

But the Hopes have stainless bearings. The 350's aren't stainless bearings. You get stainless bearings with 240's (as well as a slightly more machined hub shell).

Getting end caps for a Hope is extremely easy. DT make alot of hubs, many are slightly different and have slightly different end caps. They are available, but you'll be googling and checking part numbers very carefully to get the right ones. Because they make 'em, spares should never be a problem with a Hope provided they're in business. They are an engineering company.

You get colours and Hope stand by their product. Given your riding in the goop, I think I'd take the Hope's for the stainless bearings at the same price as 350's.

I’m not sure that cup and cone bearings are really what I need for a bike that’s going to get absolutely swamped in mud regularly. (the mud around here is thick, sinky, boggy, clay like stuff).

I think you'll find that's not a problem.

Halo Mt hubs seem to be only slightly cheaper than hopes. Any experience?

Hope over dt for me, but only just. I’d happily have either but a few things tip it. I’ve found hope marginally easier to work on and the fact I can still use the same end caps on every front hub I’ve had from them is nice. The faster ratchet in the newer hopes is a help too- apparently the point I really notice ratchet speed is somewhere in the 18-24 ‘click’ window- and paying to upgrade the dt ratchet is annoying.

I used to love Shimano hubs but just seem to have less time to do the preventative maintenance than I used to. Spannering on holidays for large groups, all using cup and cone, meant I could strip and rebuild in record time- it would have been a hell of a lot easier to just bash out some cartridge bearings in that scenario though.

The thing that put me off Shimano in the end though was the freehub mechanism- near impossible to service beyond a flush through and oil when they got gritty and all subtly different between models so getting a replacement was a pain with non current models. If they’ve sorted that then I might have to have another look.

The thing that put me off Shimano in the end though was the freehub mechanism- near impossible to service beyond a flush through and oil when they got gritty and all subtly different between models so getting a replacement was a pain with non current models. If they’ve sorted that then I might have to have another look.

The new ones are completely different, more like the Chris King. Like the DT but with a worm drive to push the plates together.

Dunno if it's still a sealed unit though.

On the upside they usually lasted quite a long while, and you could swap freehubs, you just had to swap the spacer behind the cone as well.

That’s the ‘not quite silent’ freehub? I was interested in that until I read somewhere it wasn’t user serviceable.

Shimano - cup and cone is a pain and if the races die, they need replaced.

Hope seem little better to me than any other cartridge bearing hub. I’ve also had two hub bodies fail - one at the spoke holes, one a complete split down its axis.

DT are expensive and still need bearings replaced. Sound nice though.

Industry 9. Had 3 sets, love the fast engagement, but they’re not well sealed for British weather and the pawls used for engagement can break. They still went through bearings at the same rate as Hope.

Chris King. Bloody expensive, and certainly not fit and forget, but once they’re setup, you’ll never buy parts for them. The bearings just don’t die. EVER. They sound great, they pickup fast and are super easy to service. The downside is cost, both of purchase and adaptation.

That’s the ‘not quite silent’ freehub? I was interested in that until I read somewhere it wasn’t user serviceable.

True, but then there's not really anything to service?

And whilst I like Hope, the relentless march of standards and obsolescence means it's about £20 cheaper to buy a new XT hub than it is to buy the bits to convert my current one.

I used to say the same of the old 785 hubs, yes the races might only last 2-3 years of heavy use in the British mud even with some TLC. But then you just built a new wheel as after that much use spokes were snapping, rims were looking hammered, and the whole lot needed replacing anyway.

My last few wheels have been novatec hubs, half the price of hope, indistinguishable in use and cheap spares.

the 8.2 degree engagement is sometimes annoying.

Drives me up the wall does that 8.2 degree engagement. Sometimes it just ruins a ride - there I am, the sun is out, the trails are running perfect and the birds are singing but I go to put the power down and my pedal moves 8.2 degrees before the power kicks in and thats it. Day ruined...

DT for me! Really quiet and ridiculously amazing bearing life.
Used to run Hope but don't like the noise and my Pro 2s cracked around the bolt holes
Novatech are good too but the pawl spring thingy is weak and vulnerable to dirt

I have a fair mix of Novatech, Hope, DT Swiss, Mavic and Formula.
Mavic, pain in the arse to service but hardly need any service anyway.
Novatech are ok but that's it.
Hope & DT SWiss easy to service so get done more anyway these would always be my go to option for future purchases.
I have a set of Formula hubs on some road wheels, can't remember ever doing anything to them and they have done 11k miles and still going strong.

Agree with Daffy on the King hubs, fantastic.
my biggest problem now though is the change in standards is now far more frequent and I’m wondering if you’re really getting the benefit from older hubs that have been adapted. Are the novatec replaced with the new standard when it arrives a better option? I’ve been happy with the novatec I’ve ran on various bikes

Another vote for DT. Fit and forget. I normally sell the wheels on before the hub needs any servicing.

Really quiet

Depnds which hub but the 370 sounds like like a bloody machine gun at low speeds.

Also 24t engagement, im not going to say 0.8deg engagement makes the trails come alive, but 24 is enough to make you question whether it's ever going to engage at all!

Novatech are ok but that’s it.

What more do you need from a hub?

And whilst I like Hope, the relentless march of standards and obsolescence means it’s about £20 cheaper to buy a new XT hub than it is to buy the bits to convert my current one.

And how much does it cost to rebuild it, bearing in mind you presumably don't work for free?

Depnds which hub but the 370 sounds like like a bloody machine gun at low speeds.

Also 24t engagement, im not going to say 0.8deg engagement makes the trails come alive, but 24 is enough to make you question whether it’s ever going to engage at all!

i've always found the 370's to quiete, usually can barely here it on group rides over other's hubs. plus as you say the engament is terrible, really noticable when i get on the old bike with pro 4's.

the 370 failed the other day(drivering started spinning in the shell) and have just ordered some new rims with I9 hydra hubs. will be interesting to try the near instant engagement and they claim bearing life is improved.

And how much does it cost to rebuild it, bearing in mind you presumably don’t work for free?

Have you got that argument the other way arround, if I had an hourly rate for spannering the Hope would be even more expensive as it would need the new freehub now, not some hypothetical future service.

Neither really takes any more or less time to service than the other. Shimano usually sell all the spare seals etc as although you can adjust the bearings forever and a day, the seals wear out and thats what leads to them letting water in and pitting. Poor destitute 20ish student me figured out that they lasted ages untill needing a service, but then rapidly needing them as more and more frequent intervals. And that £3.50 for a pair of seals was worth skipping a couple of pints for!

If I charged an hourly rate for all the work I've done on the Hope hubs on my bikes I'd have starved long ago! Three bikes with Hope hubs and the only thing that's needed doing is an occasional (as in every couple of years) check of the grease inside the freehub. Possibly a total of an hour a year. That's with an average 3000km a year on each bike in all weathers and trail conditions.

What are folk doing that wrecks hubs? (not just Hope)

Have you got that argument the other way arround, if I had an hourly rate for spannering the Hope would be even more expensive as it would need the new freehub now, not some hypothetical future service.

A freehub is 70 quid and an XT is presumably 50. How long does it take you to rebuild the wheel? How much does it cost for spokes? Conversely how long does it take to swap a freehub? That's what I'm talking about.

Buying new, sure that works if you know you're going to get the milage out of it but can you easily convert an XT with a 2 minute end cap swap? Can you fit an XD driver to an XT? I'm currently going through those compatibility issues and I have one useful set of hubs, it's not going to be cheap to remedy.

If you have all the parts and tools handy a freehub swap on a hope hub is 5 mins tops. that’s remove cassette, pull off freehub, push on new one (and seat the seal which is really important), refit cassette. Even if you where reusing the pawls and springs that’s only another couple of mins. It’s a no brainier for me. But then I’m quite a hope fan.

I like hope hubs because here in the UK spares availability is ubiquitous. They're also not too expensive compared to say parts for DT Swiss. My pro4s seems a break pawl springs like they're going out of fashion for some reason, so actually it's good that I can get spares

I'd still like a hub that has faster engagement, but 40t isn't too far off. I do notice it ratcheting in technical terrain where the delay before drivetrain engagement could be better.

A freehub is 70 quid and an XT is presumably 50. How long does it take you to rebuild the wheel? How much does it cost for spokes? Conversely how long does it take to swap a freehub? That’s what I’m talking about.

Buying new, sure that works if you know you’re going to get the milage out of it but can you easily convert an XT with a 2 minute end cap swap? Can you fit an XD driver to an XT? I’m currently going through those compatibility issues and I have one useful set of hubs, it’s not going to be cheap to remedy.

Hubs already stripped from an old wheel and ready-ish to go. Currently HG with 135mm end caps.

Hope Freehub is £75, boost kit* is £40, so £115 in all. XT M8110 hub is £90.

Think I've talked myself into waiting another payday and getting a new set of pro4 hubs (purple obviously) and saving the pro2 for something gravel/roadie in the future (hopeing shimano don't abandon HG entirely).

*i don't like the idea of the hope one affecting chain line

Hub buzz for me is essential.

Ever since watching The Collective. There was a bit in that where the rider spins back his hub to get the cranks set up before dropping in and the noise was sublime and the effect on me quite profound.

Never got on with silent hubs after that.

I've only sold on Hope hubs when I've needed a different axle size for the next bike they're going on. They're that good, and while I tend to go budget on pretty much everything else, I won't go halves when building wheels. Hope is the perfect balance of longevity, affordability and reliability for me. I hate waste, and the attraction of Hope is that I can probably keep the hubs I have going for a very, very long time and still get spares and support.
Pro II rear hubs used to have an issue where the shell cracked; I saw a couple of examples. Hope replaced them (in both cases the whole wheel with much nicer rim/ spokes) within a week, no questions asked. I like it that you can call up the factory and speak to someone who has probably had a hand in making the hub / brake etc that I'm calling about, and I've always ended up speaking to someone who has had the patience to explain how to fix whatever problem it is I had with a part. This was back in the days of the c2 and mono mini brakes, by the way - I've not needed to call lately.
The main faff from my perspective over the last few years has been changing axle standards; it's meant I've had to sell on hubs and wheels that had a ton of life left in them and were perfectly serviceable for what I wanted to do with them. The last lot I sold were some Hope XCs, and as far as I know they're still going strong. I've a pair of 28h Pro 4 Evos and a pair fo 32h Pro II Evos; the IIs are going on eight or nine years with a single bearing change, which is pretty good in my book - I'd expect at least one change a year, but I'm spreading wear across two mountain bikes now, so stuff lasts longer.

I've got a bunch of Hope hubs, the front ones are brilliant - nothing much to go wrong - the rear ones less so. I prefer the star ratchet DT Swiss freehub system, which has been more reliable for me, plus the bearings seem better sealed based on how often I've had to swap them out.

Pro 2 freehub failures due to disintegrating bearings is a common issue. You may get lucky and have Hope replace the freehub and axle for free or you may not. It'd be better if it didn't happen in the first place. They do make a nice noise though.

My preferred set-up is a Hope front and a DT Swiss 240S rear with one of the fast engagement upgraded star ratchets. I'm not saying Hope are utter crap or owt, just that given the choice, I'd pick DT Swiss.

Hubs already stripped from an old wheel and ready-ish to go. Currently HG with 135mm end caps.

Hope Freehub is £75, boost kit* is £40, so £115 in all. XT M8110 hub is £90.

Think I’ve talked myself into waiting another payday and getting a new set of pro4 hubs (purple obviously) and saving the pro2 for something gravel/roadie in the future (hopeing shimano don’t abandon HG entirely).

*i don’t like the idea of the hope one affecting chain line

Ah, that makes more sense if you're starting from the same place. Could be worse, you could be stuck with XC's on everything (barring a Pro2 which is, usefully, a rear). Not that there is anything wrong with XC, it's just long past its sell by date for multi-bike wheels.

Ah, that makes more sense if you’re starting from the same place. Could be worse, you could be stuck with XC’s on everything (barring a Pro2 which is, usefully, a rear). Not that there is anything wrong with XC, it’s just long past its sell by date for multi-bike wheels.

I've a pair of gunmetal XC's, and a bulb front can't quite figure out what to do with them!

In theory I think the bulb should fit in a torque cap boost front fork with 15-20mm sleeve on the axle and a 'boost converter' disk spacer.

The XC's will probably find their way onto a winter road bike or singlespeed at some point, just looking for a frame that takes my fancy.

DT350 is imo just plain better than the Hopes, and it kind of says a lot that it's a design that's been around forever and it's still better than however many generations of Hope have come and gone in the same time... (I always think it's funny that people recommend Hope because of good service when they go wrong... But nobody recommends DT because of good service when they go wrong, because they don't really go wrong)

But neither is bad, you're never going to curse yourself for buying either.

240 is a bit better still but much more expensive and bloody boost has taken away the helpful supply of dirt cheap used wheels with 240s in- you can still fit adaptors but that gets a bit daft. Just As Planned of course

I don't have much experience of more recent hubs but adding my vote for CK. I have some original ISO disk mtb hubs which are 15 years old or perhaps more. The rear is tired now but the front... Not a single service and 10k's of miles off road and on. Smooth as silk still, simply astounding longevity. Never been jet washed though.

I'd be using the front again if it wasn't qr.

Have a set of Hope Pro 2 Evos on my Tallboy. At 3.5 years old and 3000-ish miles, they've now had all of their bearings replaced, front and rear, but I'd expect the hubs to just keep soldiering on. Recently swapped the groupset to 1x12 XT, thanks to Hope releasing a Micro Spline freehub for my hubs last month. Went on a treat and works perfectly. Others probably get more miles out of bearings, but when I do ride it always seems to be in grim conditions, so they take a bit of a hammering. Don't mind as a set of bearings is cheap enough and only takes a few minutes to swap. Always had decent support from Hope (not that I've had to use it too often) and I like the serviceability of their kit.

Also like DT hubs, especially their ratchet freehub which always seemed to be a really nice, robust design. Again, plenty of spares available, including replacement freehubs for when standards change. Converted a few sets from hyperglide to XD to support Eagle groupsets, and while the parts aren't especially cheap, on a nice set of wheels, it's good to know you can give them another life.

Shimano hubs are my curse. Yes, they do run well (I've got a few sets on various road wheelsets) and, generally, seem to have longer windows between services than cartridge bearings, but when they do go, they are much more of a faff to sort and, unless you're pretty diligent over your greasing, you may find that the races have become pitted which means they are destined for the skip. I understand their reasoning for wanting to keep the angular contact element of cup and cone, but for me, life is too short for pissing about with them.

If shimano were a bit more convertible I'd stick with them because centrelock & serviceability but dt 350 have won me over more recently I must admit. Just keeping my fingers crossed that the Hope tandem hub doesn't live up to its reputation 🙄

Have DT Swiss got a 148 boost conversion kit? I am currently running a 350 rear hub converted to 142 with their end caps. If I change frame how easy is it to go to 148? I cannot see it in their conversation tables.