[Closed] How to make Hope brakes better?

If they're correctly bled, then that's as good as they get

Sell them and get some codes or xt's.

If you like the instant response of Shimano, the Hopes just feel spongey and vague.

If you like the progressive nature of Hopes, then Shimanos feel too sharp and have no modulation.

People like different brake feels.

For me Shimano are a bit on-off,lacking in modulation.

For folk I ride with, they can’t get on with Hope because they like the on-off initial bite and don’t do the modulation, feeling for the just not skidding point.

Ultimate power ain’t that different either way I suspect - certainly more than the tyre’s grip.

Horses for courses.

Of course I love the fact that my 2011 X2 Hopes are still going strong.
I think I’ve had to bleed them twice. And the pads last well too.

EDIT - Scotroutes beats me to it.

On a factory fresh bike all the below should be spot on. Having said that, Hope brakes benefit from
1) a good bleed
2) properly centred calipers and balanced pads.
3) proper bedding in of the rotors and pads.*

My exact same Hope set up feels sharper than other people's. Not Shimano sharp, but a bit of care on setup pays dividends.

*Okay, 3) is down to you.

Too much free stroke sounds like the caliper/pistons aren't aligned properly.

However, they do have a very different feel to the instant grab of shimano brakes, but that doesn't mean they lack power.

Make sure you've got them set up right first, they're very sensitive to correct set up.

Check for sticky pistons which are often an issue on any brake and lead to excess travel - lube them if needed and also centre the pads properly as per the hope video.

I also think they suffer from cold polishing of the pads more than other makes and IMO only use hopes own pads

But what scotroutes says effectivly.

Great modulation, perfectly set up / bled / centred but they do have more free stroke than Shimano or Sram. If you like the feel of the Hopes, still want a bit of modulation but more power / less free stroke go for Sram Codes.

I've criticised my Hope brakes quite a bit but my E4's work really well. There's certainly not 'too much' free stroke on mine but I don't know what you're comparing them to.

Definitely get an expert opinion on set up before you bin them. If you don't want them let me know as my girlfriend really wants some on her bike!

Far too much free stroke (even wound the lever as far as possible) very little initial bite and feel lacking in power.

There're 2 adjusters on the tech 3 levers. Have you tried playing with both - you say you wound out the lever, but did you also wind in the Bite Point Adjust?

But as above, if you're used to the Shimano feel of brakes, they can seem a bit woolly and underpowered. They're not, they just don't have that instant grab.

Also, as it's a new bike, did you make sure to bed in the pads properly?
Make sure they're not contaminated - sometimes with a new bike that's been set-up in a workshop some oil or fluid may have got on the pads.

I've been running some Superstar Kevlar pads in my X2s, and really rate them.

set up properly as said they should be fine

I have (2pot) derores on another bike & the intial bite is stronger but overall hopes far more pwer

Galfa Green brake pads are excellent for a bit of extra bite

I don't have too much free stroke on mine, reach and bite point dialled in a few turns, the lever never comes too close to the grip or my second finger. It's all about the modulation for me, braking is for speed control not skids, but a quick one finger tug (oo er missus) is all you need to produce one and i can always pull a decent length stoppie.
Initial set up is a bit more time consuming, especially if you've got a lazy piston, but its worth getting spot on, I've occasionally pushed the pistons back and started again.
Never understood people skidding all the way down the trail, you're just clogging your tyre tread up making it less effective, think A.B.S and get your entry and exit speed right, my mate with saint brakes is always skidding and I'm almost always right behind him exiting corners until I overtake.

You can't have modulation and 'bite'. Hope brakes work well but you probably just have to work your braking finger harder than you're used to. though the 'free stroke' thing sounds a bit odd to me. Mine don't feel like they've got excessive free stroke. In fact whenever I've ridden a bike with Shimano brakes I usually think they have alot of free stroke then they come on digitally. Take some proper getting used to after being used to Hopes.

Maybe check the free stroke thing out. Wether you like the way they feel and if you can get used to it is a personal thing...we are human after all and one of our strong points that has brought us to the top of the food chain is our ability to adapt so you can adapt if you really want to, but sometimes you might not want to adapt.

Never understood people skidding all the way down the trail, you’re just clogging your tyre tread up making it less effective, think A.B.S and get your entry and exit speed right, my mate with saint brakes is always skidding

It would appear that you have completely and utterly missed the point and your mate needs a lesson in mountain biking. Either that or it's that Shimano brakes need a certain finesse and that Hopes are better for gorillas who need protected from their own ham-fistedness.

It would appear that you could argue and pick a fight over just about anything scotrotum.

I'm with Scotroutes, he does. Skids are for kids

APF

Theres a lot of panic brakers out there ( youtubes Dave Jenvey for example) not just those who brake to swing the backend around the tight corners. A lot of people need some finesse braking lessons.
Gorillas who need protecting from their own ham-fistedness, bit harsh and incorrect you can still slam on with Hope's.

When you pull the leaver donthe pads take a while to connect to the disc? If so, take your wheel out and pull the lever a bit. This should move the pistons out a bit and reduce the distance between pad and disc.

I run 2 x shimano and never had the skidding issue, bit of time to set up the brakes and feel and they work well, they'd have to be bled to perfection to get a rear to go from 0 to full lock without being a proper panic braker.

Also have some maguras, they feel a lot less positive on braking, but work well if i just accept they're a bit softer and require a firmer action.

Have to say i did stop using Hope's a while back, not just for the feel, but i can't stand brakes that use DOT fluid, much prefer mineral oil.

very little initial bite and feel lacking in power

I've said this before but it's relevant. I have XT on my XC FS bike and Mono Minis on my rigid bike. The Shimanos feel sharper. BUT there is a steep (20% or so) fast road hill on one of my local rides with a turning onto a trail at the bottom. This is a true test of braking as it's where you really get to test maximum stopping power which is determined by how the brake and rotor can shed heat at the pad interface. Both Hope and Shimano stop me the same. I could be using less force in my fingers on one brake or the other, but it's immaterial since I am not using anywhere near my maximum grip strength. In this situation there's a point beyond which squeezing harder does not stop you any faster, and this point seems to result in the same stopping force on both brakes. Of course this is just one stop - if this kept up for long then other factors come into play which would be the amount of heat the caliper itself can dissipate before boiling the brakes. But I don't live in the Alps so that's not a big issue for me.

In other words, Shimano feel sharper when you are braking lightly but this doesn't translate into more ultimate stopping power.

Shimano are miles ahead on stopping power per £ though.

Magura brakes are a happy medium between Shimano and Hope. I hated the hopes I’ve used, my mono mini were so loud I think they damaged my hearing lol!

Its something that has always amused me that many mtbers practice lots of things but seemingly not braking. I have been told to not use my front brake on steep downhills and I have twice had people run into the back of me because they couldn't stop in time because they couldn't use the front brake properly.

I like my Hope brakes, have E4 and X2. I love the reliability, consistency and serviceability.

However I have recently replaced them on my best bike because they just don’t work the best for me.  Instead I have taken a chance on some XT levers and Magura four pot callipers.  I know not everyone will agree but I like servowave (I’d probably like SRAM’s RSC action too but don’t like their lever shape) because the ramp up in leverage once the pads are in contact with the disc means less effort for more braking.  I have more confidence I can lose speed quickly and that lets me go faster.....bearing in mind I’m a very mediocre rider and anything that boosts confidence is a good thing.

If I were the OP, with what I would think of as a bit of a dream bike, I’d stick with the Hopes for a bit but if I didn’t get used to them I’d swap them for something I preferred

Sounds like something is definitely up, my V4's suffer as well. Front is as sharp as you like and back is vague and spongy. I replaced the rear hose with a normal kevlar one and thoroughly bled it but it still aint right. Might take a look at the pistons as noted.

Pad choice and rotor size will always make the difference. I used to run zee calipers with xt levers, 200 and 180 mm rotors and shimano sintered pads. I switched to hope e4 and had drastically less power for the same effort at the lever but more control around the point the brakes would lock. The lever throw is similar and the hope lever feel is easier to balance between left and right for that ocd, symmetrical feel. I've since gone to 220 and 200 rotors and trickstuff power +pads in the front, ebc sintered in the rear and have kept the great lever feel and control, but massively decreased the effort needed to develop real power leading to less fatigue on longer runs. A lot of effort I know but if you can be bothered it's a good solution

yes they arnt very sharp. to get them better.

Bleed them with a thin spacer (i use worn out pads) then when you fit new pads they are much much better, bleed with bite point and leaver fully out.

wind the bite point fully in an the leaver fully out.

I have been told to not use my front brake on steep downhills

I put this quote, along with "just get behind the saddle" preachers into a category of people to never listen to regarding the technicalities of biking.

There's no coming back for these people, just don't get sucked in to being like them. (and make sure they arent right behind you on a downhill)

Sold my hope v4s . Pain to bleed, no where near as good as Saints. IMHO 😃

I have much older hopes - I find centralising them properly using the hope method reduces free stroke considerably

Properly centralised, they're bloody excellent. I was leaning on mine a lot last weekend and the only issue I have is they are noisy with sintered pads. Other than that they did not miss a beat, and both ends were being abused down some long descents.

How much have you actually ridden them? Are they properly bedded in yet?

I have a 13 year old set of M4 Monos on the bike I use every day for my off-road commute and they work perfectly (apart from having slightly rattly levers).

To people who don't like DOT fluid-systems brakes, you do know you don't have to use your mouth to bleed them.

Based on personal experience with Hope's then I've tended to find the best way to improve them is to take them off and stick something from Shimano on instead.

It's not that I found them particularly bad - they just seem to need a bit more maintenance as well having a more fiddly initial set-up to get them working well.

Run M4s and X2s for years without many issues.
Definitely a bit of a dark art but OP best way to minimise lever throw and maximise power is a combination of two things (assuming a good bleed):

1. Centre the pads, pumping the lever to let the "slack" piston extend
2. Wind in BPC fully, wind out reach fully, pump lever, then wind reach back in if you need, but as little as possible for comfort.

Buy the hope easybleed kit if you haven’t already. Makes the bleed process almost pleasurable and improves the bite point issue no end.

Based on personal experience with Hope’s then I’ve tended to find the best way to improve them is to take them off and stick something from Shimano on instead.

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No it doesn’t 😊