How to gravel, inc bar/controls setup

im gonna guess that the drops are were i should be when doing stupid stuff?which might give me the grip and access to brakes that i need? with riding on the hoods being as secondary concern?

I always ride the rougher stuff in the drops. You should be able to reach the brakes AND use them without your fingers getting in the way. Bar setup angles are very personal but the tops of my bars are flat, going flat  into the hoods.

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100% what scotroutes said.
Drops are much more secure and controllable. You can one finger brake there too so more fingers to grip. No death gripping though!

I use standard compact drops in 44cm width. I mostly ride on the hoods and find braking fine. Controls are excellent and I clear small table tops and trail obstacles with no issues. I use the drops for long open gravel descents and when riding into the wind on the road. I like to climb either on the hoods or with my hands on flat of the bars. Bars are level with my saddle.

I do have GRX levers which are chunky and good to grip, way better than the 105 ones on my roads bike.

Tweak the height of your bars, position of the levers and rotation of the bars to see what you prefer. I really like my elbows to be slightly bent when riding as this way means I don't have too much weight on my hands.

Grx levers from the hoods are managable due to different shape

Lashing up any other Shimano road brakes you'll be wanting to be In The drops

Tyre pressure has a huge impact when you don't have any suspension. I run my front tyre less than 30 psi (on a 38mm tubeless tyre) this means that the front wheel tracks the ground better and doesn't get as easily knocked off line when riding rougher trails. Softer tyres also reduce trail buzz.

Rear tyre is about 35psi, I use the old school mtb rule of running my rear tyre just soft enough to occasionally feel the rim on roots etc when really going for it.

Lastly, as gravel bikes are a lot lighter (as long as you are not carrying your weekly shopping which some 'gravelistas' think you need to carry if riding for Langer than an hour). You want (IMO) to get used to riding a lot lighter and not just crashing into the trail like you can get away with on a modern mountain bike, especially full sussers.

Have fun and I hope you sort out your sore hands.

Lastly, as gravel bikes are a lot lighter (as long as you are not carrying your weekly shopping which some ‘gravelistas’ think you need to carry if riding for Langer than an hour)

If riding "Langer" than an hour where am I going to put my sandwiches, pork pie, cheese board and beer if it's not in a bag on the bike?

In a nice small 'burrito' type bar bag or smallish saddle bag.

I carry all my spares in my second bottle cage in a tool bottle.

I always use road style jerseys on my gravel bike (don't get the lumber-jack/site labourer flannel shirt look which I know is very unfashionable of me), plenty of room for mobile snacks and pocket meat products. 👍👌

This chap with the fine beard has tested a few 😉

https://ukgravelco.com/2022/10/16/bar-bag-grouptest/

You should check it out. 😎

Re: achey hands, I found the biggest improvement by moving the saddle back as far as was sensible (I ended up with a 20mm set back post) and obviously moving bars back too.

I even found that saddle tilt could make a difference to the amount of weight on my hands, as could the 'wave' of the saddle, e.g. if it kicks up a lot at the back it can tip your weight forward.

My bars have remained quite high also, so that I can use the drops more.

Who knew that drops weren't great for off road....

(just pulling your leg 😉 )

im gonna guess that the drops are where i should be when doing stupid stuff?which might give me the grip and access to brakes that i need? with riding on the hoods being as secondary concern?

This, yes. Shallow drop bars with some flare work better off-road. Rotate the bar so the drops hook is at the right angle (makes a lot of difference to fore-aft weight also) and ignore the flat upper bar to STI transition that most road bikes have. If they work out that way that's fine but it's not the best default for gravel bikes.

Who knew that drops weren’t great for off road….

They aren't.. It makes no sense really.

Achey hands? Go and look at the CUK forum. Colin531 has a brilliant blog thingy (chap designs for Spa cycles) Some of this is counter intuitive but is right.
Whip the tape of the bars. Set the drops right for you starting at dead level and ride them. Then stick the levers at the ebst compromise bearing in mind that the drops are the most secure place for riding rough stuff.Ride again several times before re-taping.
Ignore any security, "oh my arse is too high" type of stuff. Thats mental not real. You'll adjust

Not sure you're ever going to fully get rid of achy hands when riding ruff stuff on a "non-suspended" byicycle but I have installed a redstop stem to good effect. Still get sore wrists on the Southern Upland Way for example. I always ride in the drops downhill and have installed a Shimano dropper which really helps me move around effectively and stay low to make things less "exciting"

I have quite flared drops (redshift kitchen sink) and my levers are quite angled in.

I prefer the drops for rough descents as if your hand gets bucked off the bar it doesn’t fly off. The levers are set such that I can one or two finger brake.

Interestingly, I get much sorer hands on a flat barred rigid bike over similar terrain. So much so, I’m considering putting the suspension forks back on again…

As said above who new that a road bike with marginally bigger tyres wouldn’t be great around a MTB trail centre.

I’ve got a gravel bike so said with a smiley 😊.

I’ve got a redshift stem which does take edge off rough stuff a bit. By that I mean double track that’s a bit rougher. But I’d still not consider taking it on anything too tech. Wrong tool for the job. Even with 2inch tyres I’d still find drop bars overly limiting on mild tech.

Plenty will no doubt correct me but I’m going to suggest if you’re struggling it’s wrong bike or wrong trails.

As others have said - you want to be doing most of your gnarly stuff from the drops. Mine are set up as low as I can still manage to pop the front end up from. Single finger braking from the drops is plenty of stopping power.

Net result of that is that the hoods and flats are higher than ideal, so I run the shallowest drop, most flared bars I could find to lessen the difference - Ritchey Beacons.

In terms of wrist pain (which I can suffer from) I find drops off road surprisingly comfortable, although ultimate control is less than flats. You’re never going to be as fast over rough ground when riding skinny tyres and rigid forks, but it’s surprising what you can get down. A short dropper post can help no end, just like it does on an mtb. I live on the edge of the Peak District - most of the typical bridleway rockiness is doable with a bit of care, and probably rather easier than it was in the ‘90s when I first started riding it. I enjoy the difference in approach - variety is the spice of life etc.

thanks guys

I shifted the bars higher as i was getting beaten up in the area between my thumb and first finger, rolling the bars move the pressure to the meaty part of my thumb/palm but made the drops useless at that angle

Im going to do as suggested... get the drops right, then sort the levers, which is the opposite to what i did on my commuter which is to make the horns the most comfortable position.

I'll start with that and see i prefer more flare, my commuter is a 440mm ritchey venturemax, this is 460mm with very little flare compared.
re tyres, dropper etc.. I'll be on tubeless as soon as my valves arrive, was at approx 32 psi which worked surprisingly well, got a dropper and rudy fork, was riding light which worked really well when going quicker.. as i got tired the whole ride got a lot harsher 😀

I'm a relatively new 'gravel' rider (and an old mountain biker) and I'd certainly agree about 'horses for courses'. Sure, you can ride reasonably techy stuff on skinny tyres, rigid fork and bendy handlebars, but IMHO a mountain bike will allways be better at that. I'm not a trail centre person - and I'm surprised at how many of my favourite rides are actually perfectly suitable for my gravel bike. What I have found is that I now tie sections of those rides on moorland estate tracks etc together on longer rides - seems to work out about 30% off road and the rest quiet lanes. Average ride distance has doubled or trebled. I find I'm going on journeys rather than slightly contrived pure off road loops planned to optimise the off road. When I find myself on something overly technical I end up thinking 'wish I was on my mountain bike', but on yesterday's 60 mile ride there was five minutes of that, and for the rest, 2.5 inch tyres and a bouncy fork would not have been the right choice.

I love the new perspective my gravel bike has given me, but I'll not be selling my mountain bike that's for sure...

Oh, and FWIW I can brake from the hoods or the bends with two fingers on steep stuff - and almost never go on the drops. GRX definitely better in that respect than 105. Steep bouncy stuff doesn't feel as secure as flat bars - but I wouldn't expect it to. I also found bar choice important; tried a Midge bar and better but not perfect so now on a Ritchey Comp Beacon which works really well for me as has very flared but shallow drops.

I love the new perspective my gravel bike has given me, but I’ll not be selling my mountain bike that’s for sure…

This.

I work out what I want to ride and who I'm riding with and then pick the best bike (gravel, HT, FS or eFS). In the last week I've ridden a road (very quiet) loop on my gravel, a gravel loop with a neighbour who's just got a new gravel bike, my FS at the Golfie with a pal and then yesterday it was the eFS with a mixed crew riding from home but including lots of enduro-type descents and nearly 40 miles.

Trying to use the 'wrong' bike just makes it crap IMO.

Aye,don't bring a knife to a gunfight an all that,it may end badly.
I (usually)choose the right bike when it's local stuff and terrain that I know well,but sometimes I CBA faffing,so just grab the one most ready to go . A better choice of tyres these days for mtb and gravel has helped in the type of riding I do. I also run quite wide,flared bars on the gravel so the position on the drops (for me) doesn't feel too far away from fast stuff on the xc bike.

I always felt more in control on the hoods on techy stuff with Tiagra or 105 levers. I just couldn't get the right set up to get the reach for the brakes. Always just felt like I was too far away from the brake levers. Just used the drops for fast cruising and non techy downhill.

I totally think this was my fault rather than saying that being on the drops isn't right. I just couldn't ever get it right.