You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
This weekend I did the whaka 50k mtb event in Rotorua for the 3rd time and finished in just under 5 hours. Each time I've not really knocked much time off but I've finished it a bit easier , the course has changed a bit each year as well so it's not an exact comparison any way . I had a small disaster this year right at the start when my carb drink I had leaked in the car so I ended up with just som electrolyte tablets as that's all I could get on site so I know my fueling wasn't as good as it could have been been this year .
There's a 100k event the day after and I'd love to think I could give it a go but I feel like I need to be doing the 50k in comfortably 4 and a half before I think about doubling the distance, for reference the last finisher of the 100 took just over 10 and a half hours.
So how do I get from a 5 hours to 4 hours? The first thing is could I lose some weight ? Definitely yes so let's take that as an obvious starting point. In terms of training I do a fair bit of exercise but not in any structured way . I go for runs once or twice a week ,if it's raining I might go swimming instead. I try and do some strength training at least once a week and I get out on my bike at least once most weekends probably 50/50 between mtb and road for about 3 hours. When I ride I'm not really thinking about training as such I just ride because I love riding bikes . All of that is crammed in whenever I can due to working full time and having 2 boys who are way more important to me than my whaka finishing time .
So my thinking is if I can maybe get some structure around the training that would help rather than just doing a bit of everything like I do at the moment. Possibly invest in a indoor trainer , I understand that zone 2 training is probably going to feature but I don't know enough about it to know how much I need to be doing or how often. I'd like to keep up the gym work as I'm at the age where I think its important. I suppose I just want to make sure that what I'm doing is actually helping me to achieve what I'm trying to do .
Sorry for the essay , just trying to get my thoughts in some order 😁 Any and all advice welcome
Given what you are doing now I would say just ride your bike more. 3 rides a week is what I do, 2 short 1 hour blasts and and a longer zone 2 at weekend. If you feel tired drop the mid week rides to an easy pace and then build up slowly again.
After a few months look at structures training if your brain can cope with that shit ..mine can't.
Faster or more comfortable, not both.
Weight depends on where you are now. But it's an obvious one of carrying timber.
Start riding harder. The basics of training are to stress your body so it adapts. A 3hr pootle is no prep for a 4h race. You could be more structured about this looking at hr or power zones but you might not like that approach. And you'd see benefits just giving it some on the climbs.
Zone 2 is good but not essential if you are short on time. Structure helps there but I find that sucks the joy out of riding. If you have the time it is just long steady rides. So if you can bump up your weekend ride time.
Consistency is key so getting on the bike more will help. Switch a run to a bike ride if you can.
Look at race nutrition. Are you fuelling well? Are you drinking enough. Eating a lot of gels and drinking electrolytes won't give you a massive boost. But if you are not doing it properly you could probably gain some time.
Bike and kit might be worth a look. When I race endurance I see people lined up on heavy bike, chunky tyres, Camelback with 3l and enough clothes for a bike packing trip. 2 bottles, road kit, basic spares, extra layer for the conditions, food in pockets. Mezcals because they are fast and grip is a state of mind. You might be able to shave kg off if you are badly kitted out and fast tyres make a massive difference if you can keep it rubber side down when it gets technical.
Learn to be uncomfortable. Start moderate, it should feel a bit slow. The last hour will be a bit tough, you won't be comfortable. You can probably push harder than you think. The only way to find that limit is to go beyond it or at least hit it. That's tough. Enter some practice events or treat some of your own rides as races.
The mates I have that compete relatively seriously at this stuff have structure and ride a LOT. Heaps of Z2 plus at least one massive hilly gravel/mtb ride every Wednesday. More time than I could ever manage...
So yeah, losing weight is probably the best bet.
Buy the indoor trainer and sign up to TrainerRoad
Bike and kit might be worth a look. When I race endurance I see people lined up on heavy bike, chunky tyres, Camelback with 3l and enough clothes for a bike packing trip. 2 bottles, road kit, basic spares, extra layer for the conditions, food in pockets. Mezcals because they are fast and grip is a state of mind. You might be able to shave kg off if you are badly kitted out and fast tyres make a massive difference if you can keep it rubber side down when it gets technical.
I'm riding a cotic flare max that I've put some silt xc wheels on with vittoria Barzos , the bike fits me well and I feel comfortable riding it on the techier stuff , it does only take a small bottle though which means I use a small pack with a 1.5 litre bladder . Luckily spring in NZ is pretty mild or it is for me anyway after 25 years in Scotland so I don't bother with any extra layers 😀.
Start riding harder. The basics of training are to stress your body so it adapts. A 3hr pootle is no prep for a 4h race. You could be more structured about this looking at hr or power zones but you might not like that approach. And you'd see benefits just giving it some on the climbs.
This rings a bell . Most of my rides are fairly similar, partly due to time restrictions due to family obligations but also because I just go and ride based on how I'm feeling that day so I could definitely try and raise the intensity when I'm out .
The mates I have that compete relatively seriously at this stuff have structure and ride a LOT. Heaps of Z2 plus at least one massive hilly gravel/mtb ride every Wednesday. More time than I could ever manage...
So yeah, losing weight is probably the best bet.
Yeah the thing is I think if I go mad and add too much structure I'll lose interest and also riding is fun for me and I don't want to lose that . Im not really looking to be competitive as such just a bit better than i am now .Im also 45 now and sometimes feel I'm having to work harder just to stand still .
There’s quite a nice Downtime podcast this week with Ben Plenger of the Strength Factory. It has lots of simple advice on little things that can improve your health and performance. He seems pretty passionate about it even if you’re not buying his programs.
If you can ride 50Km, you can ride 100Km - don't underestimate the mental. I rarely get to 4 hours riding, especially if trying to keep the pace up, without starting to feel spent. Keep going and 30 mins later, you're feeling good again - call it second wind or whatever, it's a fact. Prepare for the tough spells mentally and push through. There's a lass local to me ran for 95 hours recently - 400 miles! She wasn't running anywhere near that long in training.
I had a trip this summer riding 10-14 hrs/day, with camping stuff, for almost a fortnight. As resupply was limited, I switched to more fat and protein and less carbs. Unless your ride is super hilly, 10Km/hr pace is going to be mainly Z2 riding, so aerobic and not as much call for carbs as you'd think. Lower carbs mean drinking less too and you'll lose weight and keep it off more easily.
You can go into the science of training, but at the speeds you (and me) are going, keeping it simple and believing you can do it is key.
Try to ride more, in Z2 (still able to talk in short sentences, not sweating heavily), reduce carbs and ride for a couple of hours fasted (before breakfast). Throw in some hills reps into a weekly ride, trying to keep your gear higher/cadence lower for strength benefit (rather than spinning away). Try to do one very long ride each month - building to 7 or 8 hours and think about pacing and feeding.
If not enjoying it, don't beat yourself up - go another day.
In terms of structure, I think the obvious thing would be to substiture your two runs a week for two short/hard turbo sessions or outdoor rides (but in terms of training 'efficiency', you can do more on a turbo in less time). then make your weekend ride as long and easy as you can for your zone 2/endurance stuff.
Dylan Johnson does a great 'how to get fast on six hours a week' video on Youtube which breaks this down. His philosophy is that if you're not doing 6 hours a week then you don't need to worry about structure, just get out and ride!
Of course, real life gets in the way, so I some tend to settle on 1 hard indoor session a week, one early morning Z2 session out doors (I aim for a minimum of 90 minutes) and then just enjoy the weekend ride albeit 'try' to take it easy, but climbs/terrain etc. often dictate that I stray in to harder efforts.
For the distance, I surprised myself this year by managing a couple of significantly longer and tougher rides than I thought possible, just by feeding and fuelling much better (i.e. constantly fuelling, it takes more effort/practice than you might think to ingest enough carbohydrates if you want to go long at a decent pace and enjoy it! they don't need to be pure sugar carbs either just pay attention to avoiding fats in the savoury stuff). I also paid a lot more attention to pacing, frantically trying to avoid going too hard too early, etc. etc. to the point that I refitted a 2x chainset to my MTB to ensure I could avoid any big efforts on the climbs but also high enough gears that I could comfortably (i.e. not spinning 110rpm!) maintain higher speeds on the flat easy stuff.
Wasn't sure what to expect from that thread title 😆
But I'd agree with the JFDI comments, e.g.
If you can ride 50Km, you can ride 100Km
Just ride a bit more, throw in some intervals and enjoy feeling the fitness build. Don't go all structured if that's not your bag.
How much elevation gain was in the 50km BTW?
With ~4500 feet of climbing, being able to increase your effort on the climbs will make a huge difference to your overall time.
The mates I have that compete relatively seriously at this stuff have structure and ride a LOT. Heaps of Z2 plus at least one massive hilly gravel/mtb ride every Wednesday. More time than I could ever manage...
So yeah, losing weight is probably the best bet.
Yeah the thing is I think if I go mad and add too much structure I'll lose interest and also riding is fun for me and I don't want to lose that . Im not really looking to be competitive as such just a bit better than i am now .Im also 45 now and sometimes feel I'm having to work harder just to stand still .
I hear you.
I actually don't really ride with them any more as a result.
Their idea of fun is far more serious than mine now and I couldn't keep up anyway.
So how do I get from a 5 hours to 4 hours?
In very basic terms - a combination of long steady Z2 stuff and some short sharp work at threshold, around 80-20 or 90-10 proportions. You may not go from 5 to 4 hours unless you're starting from a fairly low level and have 6+ months to train but you really can go to 4.5hrs and feeling much better and more consistent throughout the ride.
Read a summary of Joe Friel's training theories and the base-build cycle - although it's old now and there's newer thinking on training, the simpler fundamentals are still valid and easier for most of us to work with. You're better doing a good job of the basics than a patchy job of something more complex (imo). Plus I find the polarised effort level approach fits in with normal riding and don't need any real tech, a HRM will do it if you don't want a power meter, and I can use it to bias regular riding that I don't call training so it builds towards better long-term fitness levels.
FWIW I find one good turbo session a week is enough if i want to get my output up (over-unders or similar, 8-12 week block). Better one that's all-in and give yourself time to recover properly, than 2 that aren't done as well. It's the recovery that brings the gains.
Deceptive thread title, not what I thought it would be be about 💦
Thanks for the replies , sorry for any disappointment after reading the title 😁
Just ride a bit more, throw in some intervals and enjoy feeling the fitness build. Don't go all structured if that's not your bag.
How much elevation gain was in the 50km BTW?
I think this is going to be my plan for the next 6 months or so . Make a conscious effort to get my eating sorted for weight loss as this is the most important part of not the easiest to achieve and We're coming into summer and longer nights so hopefully should be easier to get some more riding in . If I go one way from the house it's flat as a pancake so should for zone 2 and the other way is hills so good for efforts.
The 50k course had about 1250 meters of climbing. It's about 90 percent singletrack and the trails are great to ride but your always doing something , there's no real easy flat sections for recovery . What flat sections there are all have a few short sharp efforts in them and the downs are physical enough that your heart rate doesn't really drop to much .
Im also 45 now and sometimes feel I'm having to work harder just to stand still .
I mean, you kind-of are. As you get older, your metabolism is shifting; it gets harder to lose weight, harder to build muscle. (Ask me how I know). Flipside: it's still totally possible! As everybody's said, riding more, a bit harder is the key. And whilst "structure" sounds boring, it genuinely works - for me, structure was "get on the trainer, do whatever the next thing in the program is" once or twice a week, and then ride a real bike at the weekend.
(The advantage of the indoor trainer is that interval work, or measured work is much easier; doing sprint intervals on a road is heavily traffic dependent!)
Exercise is tiring, it won't hurt less, you just go faster, as the saying goes - but you'll find that the recovery is going to get more comfortable as you get fitter - you won't be wiped out for (eg) days after a chunky ride. For me, that's the huge win - just bouncing back quickly. Really noticeable, and I'm missing it a bit right now.
Also fuelling - so much fuelling. Find things you like and that work - if you think gels are gross, don't take gels. But you'll need more than a carb drink to get you around - so carby things, bananas, energy drink, whatever keeps you going. You burn fuel fast, it takes a while to process. Eating like clockwork on long rides is a useful tip, it's amazing how much just fuelling myself properly started making longer rides more doable.
And if you like gym, do keep it up - strength work (esp core work) will always help.
I mean, you kind-of are. As you get older, your metabolism is shifting; it gets harder to lose weight, harder to build muscle. (Ask me how I know). Flipside: it's still totally possible! As everybody's said, riding more, a bit harder is the key. And whilst "structure" sounds boring, it genuinely works - for me, structure was "get on the trainer, do whatever the next thing in the program is" once or twice a week, and then ride a real bike at the weekend.
Yeah I've been fairly consistent with gym and weights for the last tenish years and am sold on the benefits of consistent weight training especially as you get older so I don't want to give that up . It's also easy to squeeze in whilst I'm waiting to pick kids up from stuff , before work etc etc .
Some one mentioned the Ben Plenge downtime podcast and I've listened to that and I think he talks a lot of sense in a practical way that could work for me if I apply it .
So if I roughly spent the next 6 months trying to consistently ride more with trying to add some efforts in , then in the darker winter 6 months doing a 2 or 3 sessions a week of an indoor trainer with a bit more of a computer telling me what to do when type of approach that should be beneficial without hopefully sucking the joy out of riding bikes . Sounds easy 😁
What I would woarn you about indoor training is that joy is a bit of a... ledger: indoor training can be a bit dreary/sweaty, but the benefits for the real rides might still leave you in joy credit overall!
Yeah I can see that indoor training could be a bit dreary but if I start to see the benefits on the weekend rides then I think I can live with it or I'm at least keen to try it and if I'm following instructions from a program it takes the guess work out of it for me I suppose.
I've been thinking about how I ride when I'm out and to be honest I don't really think I push hard . On the routes I regularly ride I know the big climbs and tend to sort of settle in and pace myself up the hill so there's lots of room for me to try and get use to riding a bit harder.
Don’t underestimate the need for the lower pace base miles though. Especially if you’re working over a 6 month period. Intervals fine tune an engine but the base miles give it greater capacity in the first place. Plus I found disciplined base pace rides really helpful for understanding pacing myself and also seeing the gains.
OP: it sounds like you have settled on a decent approach. I recently read somewhere that you have 3 levers to pull to get training gains: consistency, volume and intensity. For most of us, the volume part of things is constrained by other time commitments so making sure you stay consistent and adding in some intervals is the way to go.
The next hurdle is likely to be finding a structure to your training that suits you and keeps you motivated. Trying to build your own plan can be a bit of a rabbit hole and the internet is full of people with their own flavour of advice - trying to figure out what will fit for you can drive you insane. If you can stomach the cost, one of the training platforms (I like TrainerRoad) or a local coach can be really helpful here. When I lived in NZ the ChCh based Complete Performance did lots of plans, group rides and even group turbo sessions for a very reasonable cost - I have no doubt there’s something similar wherever you are.
I think this is going to be my plan for the next 6 months or so . Make a conscious effort to get my eating sorted for weight loss as this is the most important part of not the easiest to achieve and We're coming into summer and longer nights so hopefully should be easier to get some more riding in .
Sorry if I missed it, but did you share your weight/height?
It's weird how losing weight it should be the easiest - all you have to do is put less stuff in your mouth - but I find it much easier to ride more.
Anyway, I was just gonna say that I find I can gain a lot of fitness without my weight really changing much (though I guess the muscle/fat ratio may change a bit).
By the way, 100km in four hours would be very fast on an MTB. I used to go about that pace when I was doing base miles on my road bike.
Oh, and +1 for fuelling better - I use tangfastics and fruit bars alongside gels. And a bit of caffeine in the second half of the ride.
Sorry if I missed it, but did you share your weight/height?
It's weird how losing weight it should be the easiest - all you have to do is put less stuff in your mouth - but I find it much easier to ride more
I'm not sure of my exact weight at the moment as it's something I feel unless I'm actively trying to lose weight im not sure it's healthy for me to kind of obsess over it if that makes sense . I'm not that bad but there definitely some kgs to lose , a while ago I tried Idave for a bit and found running and cycling definitely improved with the weight loss but found the restrictions on the diet not sustainable so I'm looking for something that I can maintain. My eating is pretty healthy for the most part but I can find myself snacking without realizing it sometimes so I think I know what I need to clean up and I'm hoping with maintaining or increasing my exercise I can lose a few kgs without obsessing over it .
By the way, 100km in four hours would be veryByBy the way, 100km in four hours would be very fast on an MTB. I used to go about that pace when I was doing base miles on my road bike. the way, 100km in four hours would be very fast on an MTB. I used to go about that pace when I was doing base miles on my road bike. fast on an MTB. I used to go about that pace when I was doing base miles on my road bike.By the way, 100km in four hours would be very fast on an MTB. I used to go about that pace when I was doing base miles on my road bike.By the way, 100km in four hours would be very fast on an MTB. I used to go about that pace when I was doing base miles on my road bike.
Yeah definitely 😁 I'd be looking to do the 50 in 4 ish hours before committing to entering the 100k event although I think I'll be pretty happy with just getting better at the 50 as well .
Sorry, my brain misfired there. Of course you were doing the 50km!
Do you live in the same area as the event? Can you go and do similar rides and try to push yourself a bit harder? I know being in an event can make you faster, but I like to do the odd "no-stopping" ride where I push myself quite hard for 2 to 3 hours and I think that really helps bring my fitness up.
And just doing a few intervals on my weeknight XC rides, usually up moderate hills.
To ride a 100 miles over 2 days loaded up with bike packing gear in the (hilly) lakes which is well outside my normal riding I
Ride twice a week, mix of steady stuff and winch and plummet. 2-3h on a wednesday, 5-6h on a Sunday. In the weeks before I aim for
50 mile flat road ride
75 mile hilly road ride
90 mile very hilly road ride
The week before a very hilly 60 mile MTB ride in the peaks.
And the bike gets fitted with faster tires just before the 60 mile off road ride.
My focus is riding with no stops other than gates/ junctions/ unavoidable pushes. This year I got up to 3h with food and drink on the go.
The 100 miles were cut slightly as I stopped a bit early on the Saturday night and didn't get as far as I had planned.
Wasn't sure what to expect from that thread title 😆
Me neither, kind of disappointed TBH...
Do you live in the same area as the event? Can you go and do similar rides and try to push yourself a bit harder? I know being in an event can make you faster, but I like to do the odd "no-stopping" ride where I push myself quite hard for 2 to 3 hours and I think that really helps bring my fitness up.
Yeah it's not to far and there's a couple of other more local spots that I can ride. It's funny that you mention doing similar rides as it seems so obvious but sometimes you need someone to point the bleeding obvious out 😁 I used to enjoy doing enduros back in Scotland and that style of riding so most of my rides would be find the shortest way up to the trails , have a little rest then ride down and repeat until my legs gave up . I still like to do that but I'm losing the urge to try and descend fast , rather just try to be smooth these days so I could definitely slightly adjust what I do when I get the chance to ride , probably just try not to stop at the top for 5 minutes.
Yesterday I forgot to take my lunch to work and had a choice on my way to a site , go via home to get my chicken and sweet potatoes or go via one of the best pie shops in the north island. I chose the chicken and sweet potatoes so progress is already being made 😁