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I wouldn't bet against video cameras being taken up by horse riders before the cycling masses, given they are vulnerable to the growing vehicle population... And **** womble cyclists too, it would seem.
sidenote – when did horse riders start wearing head cams?
Maybe they can get their rear facing cams going so they can spot the shit they don't clean up....
Horse riders have as much of if not more of an issue with close pass and punishment passes as we do. And have cams for the reasons some of us do.
Cow shit on the road is far worse than horse shit imo
For the record, I’m not saying these guys did nothing wrong, I’m just marvelling at the level of hate engendered by what could be a very genuine mistake of the kind we all make.
It would be extraordinarily generous to attribute their actions to a mistake.
Cow shit on the road is far worse than horse shit imo...
You obviously didn't ride the shared use paths I did today that was covered in their lovely shit
I bet that horse rider deliberately goes around engineering incidents with triathletes. Why else would they have a camera?
Hahaha must not feed the troll
Seriously. Who in their right mind overtakes a horse on the INSIDE!!??? There was a whole other side of the road to use FFS.
I’m guessing they were all in a bunch and the two that went to the left had little choice at short notice.
How much do anyone us look ahead when at the back of a bunch ?
Seriously. Who in their right mind overtakes a horse on the INSIDE!!??? There was a whole other side of the road to use FFS.
I dont think anyone, including the people who did it in that video would do it out of choice. It was evasive action with the only other option being hitting the back of the horse. Finding out too late with too much speed that you have a slow moving horse in front of you and being located at the extreme left of a pack of riders I guess it is the only option left. The fact that they got themselves in that situation is entirely of their own making* in a race where riding in groups is banned.
*Actually slim chance they were riding solo and being overtaken by the other riders and were blocked in but even then slowing down was an option if they had looked ahead.
Victim blaming, idiocy and an apologist.
Great hat trick convert, well done.
Victim blaming, idiocy and an apologist.
?
Can you actually read? Go on, give it another go.
Bet you anything it's a combination of head-down TT position and the fact he/she(?) seemed to be in a slight group so was *possibly* slighly unsighted. Horse is in primary position which is correct and normal, gives them space to move.
I've seen similar in TTs where riders have gone into the back of parked cars cos they're head down being aero or looking at their computer - in fact I've seen it on group rides too where a rider at the back has been so busy fidlding with computer (or occasionally Go-Pro, music player etc) that they've failed to notice the group has slowed and run into the back of a fellow rider or an obstacle on the road.
Atrociously bad cycling - hope they get banned from all future triathlons. Glad the horse was OK too, that could have been really bad.
So this event has been running for years
Woman has been given prior notification and decides to go ride her popo in the middle of a bike race.
Surely she carries some of the blame, it would be over by 12.00 and she could have gone doing her recreational activity then.
I'm sort of with you Phil. Riding where i live, there's gazillions of horses, that's just how it is. But what i can't comprehend is why some are completely out of control... .yes, that's right, out of control of the rider.. If they're not able to be controlled, why the heck are you taking them onto roads/trails where they're likely to be a danger to themselves and others. Maybe thats harsh, but surely if you're taking a 2 tonne (i've never weighed one by the way) horse out, you should be able to get it to stop, stand, move when you want, how you want etc.
As we cyclists like to remind car drivers, roads are for everyone.
Maybe we need to remind ourselves of that.
If you're riding in such a manner you don't see something like a horse until you're upon it, then you shouldn't be on the road.
The speed you're doing, being at the back of a group, important event, none of that is an excuse.
Roads are for everyone and should be ridden (and driven upon) with that in mind.
BTW that horse was well controlled and well behaved - there would have been serious injuries if it wasn't.
If it was a slow moving tractor pulling a trailer of dung, would they have passed like that? If so at least we would have had some funny aftermath pics and an ample dose of karma...
We get all frothy when car drivers start telling us the roads are too dangerous for cyclists and we should get off them.
There is no defending most of the riders in that video, their recreational activity is no more important than any other.
So this event has been running for years
Woman has been given prior notification and decides to go ride her popo in the middle of a bike race.
Surely she carries some of the blame, it would be over by 12.00 and she could have gone doing her recreational activity then.
Seriously, you want someone legally riding her horse, on an open, public, road, to "share the blame" with a bunch of guys riding, at best, stupidly carelessly? And what is the triathlon, if not a "recreational activity"?
Some of the social media reaction to this has been, I agree, ridiculously over the top. It's annoying and disappointing that one bit of stupid riding resulting in a minor injury garners more public outrage (even from cyclists) than any amount of homicidally stupid car driving. But blaming the woman legally riding her horse hardly seems fair or useful.
It would be extraordinarily generous to attribute their actions to a mistake.
So you think it was intentional? Calling it a mistake doesn’t admonish them of responsibility. I suspect most car drivers don’t think “right, I’m going to crash my car”.
They certainly deserve banning from events and a DQ, it’s terrible riding, but I’d be astounded if any of them decided to ride into a horse on purpose...
If nothing else, it does illustrate the fact that any injury, no matter how minor, inflicted by a cyclist is going to get national news coverage.
I'd like to say it was unbelievable the description of the 'forced' overtake was used to illustrate how reckless they all were but, depressingly, it's very very predictable.
As we cyclists like to remind car drivers, roads are for everyone. Maybe we need to remind ourselves of that.
"We"?
As we're fond of reminding our car driving friends, there are three classes of road user who have an absolute right to use public roads; pedestrians equestrians and cyclists. The rest are licensed at the pleasure of HMG.
They had a responsibility to ride responsibility and didn't, they rode like ****s and there's no excuse as there's no excuse when idiotic drivers do it to us.
[edit] 'us' and 'we' being cyclists or people reading this thread. You choose, it matters not
If nothing else, it does illustrate the fact that any injury, no matter how minor, inflicted by a cyclist is going to get national news coverage.
Slight discrepancy in police interest, too; this from 2016:
Correct me if I'm wrong but if it was a road race (or just a group ride), some sort of signal would be given to the bunch to slow down when the leading riders saw the horse?
If you have a group of cyclists with no experience of riding in a bunch on open roads that sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Edit: Bez, do you have a link I can copy the text from?
So you think it was intentional?
Passing the horse closely at speed? Yes, I think it was intentional.
If you have a group of cyclists with no experience of riding in a bunch on open roads that sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Yes. But I'll say again - it is illegal to ride in a bunch in a triathlon. It is an offence worthy of penalty or if caught twice disqualification.
One of the biggest issues with groups in triathlon is that they know they should not be a group (but are happy to be because of the drafting advantage) so are very dysfunctional. The person at the front often has no desire to be at the front of the group but is simply being drafted on so are not inclined to make signals to people they don't want on their wheel or sometimes have no knowledge are on their wheel. There are also people, for a few moments at least, caught up in a group that catches them from behind that have no wish to be riding in a group so there are constantly people being caught and spat (or spitting themselves) out the back. And a lot of folk riding tt bikes which are not suitable for group riding. It's a mess and nothing like a group ride or road race.
Bez, do you have a link I can copy the text from?
Aha:
Surely she carries some of the blame, it would be over by 12.00 and she could have gone doing her recreational activity then.
I commute to work in my car at rush hour every morning (as do many others). Why can't you leave your recreational bike riding until after peak time so I don't have to incur a 10s delay while having to pass you. In fact, why don't we just designate a window in the day (let's say 10am-11am - an hour is quite long enough) when recreational cycling is allowed on the roads so as to not inconvenience other road users?
(Honestly, do some people even think before they type here?)
I bet the horse wasn't wearing hi-viz and definitely wasn't wearing a helmet. It deserved everything it got.
commute to work in my car at rush hour every morning (as do many others).
Your part of the problem.
Why can’t you leave your recreational bike riding until after peak time so I don’t have to incur a 10s delay while having to pass you.
They're called commuters, but we'll done for not thinking it through.
In fact, why don’t we just designate a window in the day (let’s say 10am-11am – an hour is quite long enough) when recreational cycling is allowed on the roads so as to not inconvenience other road users?
Like they do on snowdon so everyone can use it safely. Hey it seems to work unless your a self entitled .....
Your part of the problem.
My part? Any part in particular? Or did you mean "you're"?
They’re called commuters, but we’ll done for not thinking it through.
Excellent. Where do I display my "I'm a commuter and thus more important than you. I am therefore allowed to be on the road at this time" badge? Does it have to go on my back, or is it OK to fit to my seatpost?
Like they do on snowdon so everyone can use it safely. Hey it seems to work unless your a self entitled …..
OK, so to be clear, you are specifically advocating that certain road users (horses, recreational cyclists, cars that are less important than you) are specifically not allowed on the road at certain peak times of day, in the same way that bikes are restricted from Snowdon? And that a triathlon race would take precedent over all of these other forms of use, forcing these users to remain off the roads until it's complete? Would you also extend this to all club road races, time trials etc?
I saw what you said about triathletes bunching earlier, that's why I was asking about road racing and group rides.
I have no idea how you can make triathlons on public roads safe.
Excellent. Where do I display my “I’m a commuter and thus more important than you. I am therefore allowed to be on the road at this time” badge? Does it have to go on my back, or is it OK to fit to my seatpost?
You are sounding more and more like a self entitled car driver. It will be easy to spot you so don't worry.
The snowdon thing works.
Are you suggesting it's a silly solution because according to many it works. And the risk is lowered lowering risk is what it's about
You are aware they do close roads for events and have Marshall and lots of other things that stop other users using the road.
it's very difficult to give.proper hand signals from tri bars. plus you'l be taking yourself out of aero position which would hinder you to help people you are competing against. so unlikely there was much, if any signalling going on in that bunch.
I can imagine for the guys that went down the inside it was that or the back of the horse and they had a split second to.decide when the arse of the guy they were drafting suddenly dodged to one side.
I'm not sure I.would agree the horse owner is at fault but if they.were.fully.aware of.the event / local is was a poor choice of route / timing/ poor risk assessment. yes fully legally and every.right to be there, but I wouldn't walk/ride/drive where any event is on unless I had too.
You are aware they do close roads for events and have Marshall and lots of other things that stop other users using the road.
Yes, they do close roads for events. And you'll notice from the video that this event was *not* a closed road event. So starting from the premise that this was an open-road race and, presumably, not important enough to justify closing roads for, what would you have them do?
It comes down to how you perceive road access should work. Personally, I believe that roads should be open to all users and that, by increasing awareness of the fact that roads are for everyone and not just the cars that make up the vast majority of users, the hostility that exists between cyclists and other road users can be reduced. This implies a need for shared respect between all road users, not least of which is making sure that one road user leaves a sensible gap when passing another, whether this is car passing bike, or bike passing horse.
When you have a bunch of muppets like those in the video, trying to ride like heroes, they do great damage to this cause, especially as cyclists are, more often than not, the victims when it comes to incidents on the road and videos like this just give ammo to those who say that no racing of any sort should be allowed on public roads.
You are aware they do close roads for events and have Marshall and lots of other things that stop other users using the road.
Indeed. Which rather prompts the question why this wasn't a closed road event. But it wasn't, and so the participants still have an obligation to behave properly around other road users.
Correct me if I’m wrong but if it was a road race (or just a group ride), some sort of signal would be given to the bunch to slow down when the leading riders saw the horse?
In a road race you would have a lead car and possibly motorbike marshals preceding the race. You would also have to do a course risk assessment and various bits of pre race admin to run the event. Generally organisers would pick a route that is going to avoid potential conflicts. However, I've been in a road race where we encountered horse riders, and the race had been stopped temporarily. You obviously can't lead marshal an individual TT event in the same way.
In the situation shown in the video, I'd have been passing as far over in the right lane as possible. In my experience, horses are not always predictable and riders are not always able to control them, so I'm wary.
I wouldn’t walk/ride/drive where any event is on unless I had too.
I recently rode one of my favourite routes over to my parents house for lunch. Plotted it in to my Garmin and headed off. As I turned off a section of farm track on to a lovely quiet, leafy lane, I thought to myself, "Don't usually see many other cyclists on here" as I overtook a few.
As I rode on for another four or five miles, there were hundreds of them. A big charity ride/sporting thingy. On my local roads. I had no idea it was happening, as that sort of thing isn't really interesting to me.
Does this leftie liberal elite horse pay road tax? Did it undertake an exam and gain a license to trot around on the road? Where are it's daytime running lights? Why don't horses have number plates? Why should horses be on the road if they can't keep up with the flow of traffic? When was the horses last MOT?
I wouldn’t walk/ride/drive where any event is on unless I had too.
Do you honestly expect everyone to actively monitor running forums, cycling websites, equestrian sites, motorcycle clubs, car cruising forums, charity websites and flip knows what else, just so they can decide not to go about their own business every so often?
Or is it more reasonable to expect people on open roads, whatever their vehicle, to treat open roads as they have a duty to?
It is very disappointing that not one of the triathletes had the decency to stop to see if the horse and rider were OK, especially the 2 that went to the left of the rider. They deserve everything they get.
Yep thats bad but probably an innocent error head down in a group !
I actually can't imagine any scenario that makes this innocent in any way.
It does appear that some riders were caught somewhat unaware, but it's an open road and they clearly put themselves in a position where they couldn't even see the biggest thing on it. Horses are massive! With someone sat on top they're unmissable. Imagine if that was a small child riding a bike?
It's always important when riding in a group to be aware of what's up ahead, because like in this instance, it directly affects what happens in the group. Head-down on tri-bars in a bunch is never an acceptable way to ride on public roads.
Woman has been given prior notification and decides to go ride her popo in the middle of a bike race.
Surely she carries some of the blame...
Are you being serious?
Firstly, woman claims she has seen no prior notification (which is more than plausible, given that she potentially arrived there from a bridleway)
Secondly, it's a public road. This is the kind of Daily Mail attitude you get from people saying cyclists shouldn't be on the road, so they deserve it, etc, etc...
Regardless of the event, you don't (and should not) expect this kind of behaviour.
I don't normally jump on the chastising cyclists for bad behaviour bandwagon, because regardless of how it looks, it generally is fairly innocent. This is not. There's enough justification in that video to ban such events if this kind of behaviour was found to be commonplace.
This is the kind of Daily Mail attitude you get from people saying cyclists shouldn’t be on the road, so they deserve it, etc, etc…
this. "You knew the risks you were running so suck it up snowflake."
it's interesting reading some of the latest FB comments.
pretty vitriolic (as might expect sadly) and it did make me wonder, if you were to substitute a cyclist / bike for rider / horse, it reads pretty familiar stuff. other road users passing too close, too fast. we are at the bottom of the pile it seems to me, sadly.
Given how these things seem to work I reckon at least one of the riders who went past that horse close and at speed yesterday will be on here.
I'd love to hear the justification.
If you are riding/driving in the countryside then you should expect horses & riders as well as other animals and ride/drive accordingly.
Yesterday I was riding down a lightly used country lane and at a bend by a farmyard a car coming in the opposite direction was half on the road and half in the farmyard. As I headed round the corner there were two women on horseback completely invisible until I was halfway round the corner. I wasn't going very quickly so a "bike behind you!" and I moved to the opposite side of the road and had a brief chat to the women (and horses) as I passed.
Horses are highly variable in how they react to anything: some are completely chilled about just about everything; others can get spooked by odd things - a friend has a horse that is frightened of aubretia! (look it up - it's a plain plant about 10cm high). Sometimes you don't know what any horse will be spooked by until it happens.
a friend has a horse that is frightened of aubretia! (look it up – it’s a plain plant about 10cm high). Sometimes you don’t know what any horse will be spooked by until it happens.
Why then would they take it on a public road?
@weeksy - did I say they took it on a public road? Read what I wrote not what you think I did.
Not excusing those cyclists in any way they are ****s.. Without a doubt not paying attention.
However my favourite downhill goes past a paddock and the horses are more than happy to watch as I go past at 20 mph plus.
Any horse with a rider though is passed as wide and slow as possible after permission from the rider.
Do horses lnot ike being ridden?
I guess a rider less horse is free to flee if it wants whereas a rider makes the horse do stuff that it doesn't like.
a friend has a horse that is frightened of aubretia
I once had to walk a neighbour's dog, it was scared of the wind. We were fine going in one direction, then it was a nightmare all the way back home. Also it hated men and bit me. Care to guess the breed?
Yorkshire Terrier ...
What the hell is even the point of horses these days, they do absolutely sod all but cause aggro.
Collision with a horse is a reportable offence. They should have stopped.
I once had to walk a neighbour’s dog, Care to guess the breed?
Clydesdale?
What a weird co-incidence... the EXACT same route I had 3 cyclists passing my car on both sides at once 2 weekends ago.
There are loads of horses on the roads around where I live and most are just fine with bikes, but I always ring the bell long before I get close to them.
Horses are a peculiar animal though - they're fine with the bike, but they're terrified of the Bike + Chariot even if it's coming toward them. I always have to stop and allow the riders to go past, wrestling the stupid beast to continue. very odd and somewhat terrifying (for both the horse rider and myself/daughter) when it first occurred.
Can you actually read? Go on, give it another go.
Ok.
Yep, just re-read your posts and I am in no position to change my mind. Victim blaming, bell-endery and shit-talking from page one.
For instance, how have you reacted in the past when your horse has been struck by a cyclist?
Convert, spotted earlier:
Here are the current UK cycling laws...
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/I/crossheading/cycling-offences-and-cycle-racing
So, throwing this to the masses which offence did they commit?
What the hell is even the point of horses (/bikes) these days, they do absolutely sod all but cause aggro.
Try not go out of your way to be a bell end, there are enough of them about as it is.
Triathlon organisers are investigating as a horse was hit and its rider hurt by cyclists racing too close to them.
Idiots on bikes.
Amanda Coyne, who lives near the route of the race, said she had encountered cyclists riding "dangerously" while driving shortly before 09:00.
"I nearly had a heart attack as I nearly got hit by a car which had been forced to overtake cyclists who were riding four-abreast," she said.
Idiotic comment by an idiot in a car.
The problem is not cycling, or driving, or riding horses.
The problem is idiots.
So, throwing this to the masses which offence did they commit?
Assault.
Here are the current UK cycling laws…
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/I/crossheading/cycling-offences-and-cycle-racing
/a>So, throwing this to the masses which offence did they commit?
No, what you linked to is the RTA1988. There are other laws which may impact, have a look here.
https://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/cycling-offences
The individual that comes out of this incident and the subsequent bun fight is a horse.
I'm not sure a satirist could do better.
No, what you linked to is the RTA1988. There are other laws which may impact, have a look here.
Not to mention most of the Road Traffic Act, lighting up act and 101 others. (Like Railways Act)
@weeksy – did I say they took it on a public road? Read what I wrote not what you think I did.
Fair enough if that specific horse is kept off road, but I would agree with the general point that "horses are highly variable in how they react". I have passed horses slowly and with as much distance as possible, and some still get spooked. From talking to people that own horses, they seem to be inherently flighty. It does seem a bit iffy taking an unpredictable animal out on a road.
I think the incident in the video is a rare occurrence, and I don't think there is actually a huge problem with careless cyclists colliding with horses.
The horse and rider were hit? Really? Was there a triathelete splattered against the horses arse with various bits of shattered expensive bike everywhere? Surely that bit should be on the clip...
I see close passes by numpties. I'd expect a cyclist colliding with a horse at speed to not be in great shape.
And as for expecting locals to check what's on in their area, maybe others don't but I do, as I know stuff is regularly on in my area. I would have thought there would have been some signs and stuff as well. Especially if you are an outdoorsy type.
Anyway wasn't it lucky they were wearing a camera whilst riding a horse in a busy event otherwise we'd have nothing to argue about on the forum
I also find wild horse seem to be far more predictable and behaved than those I see with riders on them
The horse and rider were hit? Really?
Yep.
It does seem a bit iffy taking an unpredictable animal out on a road.
Presumably you are aware of how and why roads came about?
I think the incident in the video is a rare occurrence, and I don’t think there is actually a huge problem with careless cyclists colliding with horses.
That's absolutely right, but that doesn't matter in the era of faux outrage and keyboard warriordom.
On that clip?
The horse and rider were hit? Really? Was there a triathelete splattered against the horses arse with various bits of shattered expensive bike everywhere? Surely that bit should be on the clip…
I see close passes by numpties. I’d expect a cyclist colliding with a horse at speed to not be in great shape.
And as for expecting locals to check what’s on in their area, maybe others don’t but I do, as I know stuff is regularly on in my area. I would have thought there would have been some signs and stuff as well. Especially if you are an outdoorsy type.
Anyway wasn’t it lucky they were wearing a camera whilst riding a horse in a busy event otherwise we’d have nothing to argue about on the forum
I also find wild horse seem to be far more predictable and behaved than those I see with riders on them
Odd.
On that clip?
yep.
I need to watch it again then, pretty amazed they didn't crash if they hit a horse....or is there a different clip doing the rounds?
Tossers. The end.
the bit where she shouts and the horse goes ape - the rider on the inside hit the horse and her leg on the way past.
it's included in a number of the news reports doing the rounds plus her original account of the incident. Feel free to read more widely 🙂
I need to watch it again then, pretty amazed they didn’t crash if they hit a horse….or is there a different clip doing the rounds?
When you click on the link on page one there are words as well as pictures.
Have a look at the words this time. 🙂
So this event has been running for years
Woman has been given prior notification and decides to go ride her popo in the middle of a bike race.
Surely she carries some of the blame, it would be over by 12.00 and she could have gone doing her recreational activity then.
Awh what a lovely morning, perfect for a ride on spirit (horses name changed for legal reasons)
Trit-trot
oh there’s a lot of cyclists today, ahh it’s the triathlon, forgot about that. Knew I should have kept up my uk triathlon newsletter subscription - damn GDPR.
Never mind, I’ll get off at the next junction
trit-trot
CRUNCH
I helped set up a BC road race yesterday for my club. The risk assesment was thorough and we spent a long time putting up warning signs on every road entry point to the course and at strategic points along the course (to catch horses and farmers who may enter through other rights of way and private land).
It can be done, and should be.
It looks like in the video the ones going down the inside have been caught out when everyone else has moved round the horse. Not paying attention. If they are usng tri bars there is a good chance they didn't have time to move to the brakes or off the extensions to get more control.
Horse looks pretty chilled up until it is hit. It would be able to see the majority of riders behind it that are on or over the white line. Looking at its ears it certainly heard them.
I've posted this before.
Pretty sure the BHS will have guidance on behaving around horses. I'd suggest pass wide, slow down a bit. Consider saying hello when you are a good distance back - to alert th horse as much as the rider. The flight response is strong so when spooked they take off. If the rider jumps as well then it is very difficult to maintain control. Riders will often get their horses to trot and keep moving if they are acting nervous as it can calm them down.
So, throwing this to the masses which offence did they commit?
From the links provided I'd suggest what they did was probably Dangerous cycling and almost definitely careless given that
Dangerous cycling is an offence committed by any person riding a bicycle on a road in a manner that falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist and would be obviously dangerous to a competent and careful cyclist. 'Danger' refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property.
I am a relatively competent and fairly careful cyclist and I would anticipate riding like that to potentially result in a thrown rider.
The rider we couldn't see from the forward facing camera is the one I feel sorry for - I guess those aero helmets aren't always an advantage...
Two weeks to my next road race - I've a garage full of warning signs, the risk assessment is done, and I'll be contacting local stables to let them know.
The organisers, if they have done their job properly, should have properly signed the event, or at least some of the route. I guess being TT it's a longer route than a typical BC circuit race, but some signage and notification would have helped.
I'd be interested to see what road support they had - NEG, marshals, rider briefing....