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So I’m of the opinion that a young, fit rider is quicker than an Ebike.
On the road, yes. On the flat and down hill off road, yes. On an off road climb where even fit young rider is averaging 11mph then no, not at all.
I am reasonably fit (but not young) and even on a fairly gentle 3 mile off road segment with mostly climbs I was struggling to keep with an eBike and then when it got steep for the last 1/4 mile I simply couldn't keep up. I am top 20 on that segment out of 1500 riders and the guy on the eBike was not putting in much effort for any part of the 3 miles.
Cool...
entertainment taxi.
Plus many here aren't "cyclists" either.
From comments above it seems ebikers get some satisfaction out of this, which is weird as it’s not the rider doing most of that work it’s a motor, so where does the sense of achievement come from other than hurting Stravaists fragile Ego’s.
What other reason do we need? 😉
FWIW, I always log my rides as eBike and I do find it frustrating that a) I can’t compare them to the rides I did on my non-eBike and b) there are so many segments missing.
Plus many here aren’t “cyclists” either.
E-cyclists?
V-cyclists?
Bike riderists?
E-bike riderists?
V-vike riderists?
etc.
Why do you spend time on a cycling forum then ??
I thought it was called Singletrackworld?
You’re thinking about RaphaBibtightsGravelbikeBromptonworld
I should add that I live in a very hilly area, and unlike most parts of the country there are solid 30-45mins offroad climbs in almost every direction, some with sustained sections well over 10% gradient. It's here that Strava works well offroad on a climb as the margin of error has less of a percentage impact compared to a climb of just a few minutes. And I find it more fun doing these than Strava on the road where it's just a suffer fest, there's more skills/technique involved on an offroad climb. Works great- not just for roadies.
Got me thinking with this rate of climbing thing- as it's these slow speed climbs that e-bikes are exaggerated- with an example of the fastest times up Alpe-de Huez being around the 40 minutes mark (most fastest times being juiced up to eyeballs 37min Mr Pantani) thats a 1135metre climb so climbing rate about 1850 vertical metres per hour. Terrain and mild lack of air pressure ignored, if you could maintain that rate it puts you from Everest Base Camp to Summit in under 2 hours - or from sea level to summit in under 5 hours. Bad analogies aside, thats an incredible rate of ascent for a human powered vehicle.
So an e-bike in these situations with an ability to scoot up things at not far off that kind of rate must feel superhuman.....so e-bikers, how long can your battery last with current technology at a steep climbing rate before it goes pop? How high-how fast can you go with the limits of current technology?
kerley, like I said, when I go riding with my semi regular group, there is one guy who leaves the rest of us, everywhere.
we aren't on road at all, he's quicker up and down.
in fact, I'd say the only place I could perhaps catch him would be on a long road section, as my bike has been chipped.
the guy is a Scottish champion admittedly, however, I believe my point stands, a young, fit rider, is quicker than an ebike.
I am a strava addict.
There you are, I said it.
It gets me out, it gives me motivation, and it gives me specific targets for my training. I no longer race and I need to get my kicks from somewhere, and this is it. Simples.
So, when some scally rocks up on his ebike and deliberately wipes out my KOM's on a ride, and then brags with his mates on Strava about taking the KOM's (with pictures of the bike, no less), you bet it p1$$es me off!
Even worse are the ones who leave their strava on when they get the train home after a ride, because there are segments in the forest that run alongside the train tracks.....oh yes, this is a real thing! 68mph KOM's on some of my local trails!
But not to worry - I flag all of the above, because it makes me feel better.
nowt wrong with enjoying strava, I mean why TF would you do something you don't enjoy right?
I mean, its not my cup of tea, but live and let live.
the guy is a Scottish champion admittedly, however, I believe my point stands, a young, fit rider, is quicker than an ebike.
Yes, I said that an eBike on flat and down hill is not faster but again, on a 3 mile climb where the fastest riders in the area are going at under 15mph average speed then the eBike is quicker. It is only uphill where eBikes are taking any KoMs.
Just get a crosser to be the ebikes, simples 👍
When you see a KOM that is obviously done on an Ebike, then simply ignore it. Say you were the previous KOM and it was beaten on an Ebike, is knowing that you are truly the fastest unassisted not enough?
If its not enough then why? Just because you want to brag about it? Its ridiculous.
If you're a rider who frequently gets KOM's on climbs then you should seriously consider xc racing. Winning or placing well in an xc race would give more satisfaction than a KOM badge.
I use strava and love it. If I see a time i suspect is on an Ebike it doesnt bother me in the slightest. It would be very petty to moan about it.
‘Yes, I said that an eBike on flat and down hill is not faster but again, on a 3 mile climb where the fastest riders in the area are going at under 15mph average speed then the eBike is quicker. It is only uphill where eBikes are taking any KoMs.‘
If I change my ebike rides at my local trail centre to normal rides I can take a KOM on the red route, 8 miles or so of flat, uphill and downhill. All that proves is a 50yr old novice has bought the speed of young skilled and fit riders. For me personally when ridden back to back with my normal bike the ebike is faster everywhere including downhill, tbh I’ve taken it to bpw and followed experienced riders downhill and not been left. There’s also a few online tests with pro riders and the difference in downhill is minimal if at all, the weight of an ebike isn’t the problem on downhills that non ebike riders assume it would be
Thanks Carbonroadrat- If I ever thought of XC racing properly it was 25 years ago....did I mention, am not young.✌️
Yeah. I also completed strava 25 years ago and as such I'm safe in the knowledge any Koms I might take on my rechargeable dandy horse will only be cheating myself. 😉
Strava is Strava, it's not real, people cheat in many different ways, who cares. The only people who take it seriously are sad, pathetic, lifeless individuals.
If you want to race, turn up, pay your money, and stick a number board on you bike. If you're slow, you lose, if you cheat, you get DQ.
If its not enough then why? Just because you want to brag about it? Its ridiculous.
If you’re a rider who frequently gets KOM’s on climbs then you should seriously consider xc racing. Winning or placing well in an xc race would give more satisfaction than a KOM badge.
That is just more judgemental crap. I don't brag about KoMs but why I would rather be first than second to someone on an eBike is just something I would be happier about. Yes it won't change my life or it won't cause me to go into some depressive state just something I would prefer.
I have no interest in XC racing and no it wouldn't give me more satisfaction, it may give YOU more satisfaction but that is fine you do an XC race. Don't judge others by what you enjoy or think is the best thing.
Saying that you are not as judgemental as this idiot "The only people who take it seriously are sad, pathetic, lifeless individuals." Does it really matter if I enjoy using Strava.
Group road cyclist need banning from Strava. They have a habit of going out in groups which means I never stand a chance of getting a KOM on my e road bike let alone solo. There is no justice in this world
The only people who take [Strava] seriously are sad, pathetic, lifeless individuals.
That's a strawman argument.
No one is claiming Strava is a proper race; that's not the point of this post. Clearly people enjoy Strava, and that enjoyment is being tarnished by other trail users. That's the issue at hand. It simply doesn't matter that you think Strava is trivial.
The irony is that the "Chill out, it's just for fun" crew are the ones creating an argument in this thread, in which they apparently have no interest.
+Also what Kerley said.
If you want to race, turn up, pay your money, and stick a number board on you bike. If you’re slow, you lose, if you cheat, you get DQ.
Thing is strava as a useful tool for training and motivator to get to a level that your ready to race as a contender or just improve.
if your working hard and motivated to improve and people are putting silly rides up to be funny its a bit tedious and disrespectful to the time and effort other people are putting in.
Clearly people enjoy Strava, and that enjoyment is being tarnished by other trail users.
Well that is certainty true. You don't get a KoM because you are the fastest rider, you only get it because faster riders haven't ridden that segment.
You don’t get a KoM because you are the fastest rider, you only get it because faster riders haven’t ridden that segment.
Exactly. I’ve got some KoM’s and plenty of top tens in the area round here. I’m firmly mid to lower pack at my local enduro series...
@nickjb - pretty much. I use VeloViewer and when uploading activities from Strava it shows segments where I've improved my placing and those where it's worsened. The latter far outnumber the former.
A couple of years ago I was fifth on a segment close to home, I'm now 31st. The new KOM has only lowered the fastest time by 15 seconds or so on a four minute climb so whereas previously I was 35secs off the pace, I'm now 50 seconds away. Of those 21 new better times, only four are better than the old KOM.
You don’t get a KoM because you are the fastest rider, you only get it because faster riders haven’t ridden that segment.
A KoM is a bonus to me and I am mainly comparing how I am doing against my previous rides and if I can cover any segments faster (which is a good guide of how I am maintaining my fitness as I age) As part of that I am also part of a leaderboard and being top of the leaderboard is nice. Yes there will always be faster riders in the world than the riders who ride on those segments but there are some pretty quick riders. Those faster riders in the world would also not be in a local XC race either...
Strava is Strava, it’s not real, people cheat in many different ways, who cares. The only people who take it seriously are sad, pathetic, lifeless individuals.
If you want to race, turn up, pay your money, and stick a number board on you bike. If you’re slow, you lose, if you cheat, you get DQ.
What a load of semi elitist bollocks. In what way is a race any more noble than a Strava competition?
This idea that as soon as you pin on a number you become more worthy is just ****. People will always be competing against their peers. What makes you think that your level of racing is any more worthy than theirs. Unless you are a contender in world class events then you're always open to someone else telling you that your event is just an artificial construct set up to boost the egos of the participants.
This idea that only the elite and the also rans should be allowed to challenge themselves and others is just pitiful.
PS. Apologies if you are in fact Tim Gould.
I got over Strava as competition years ago. I’d taken to uploading commutes and there were off-road but still urban sections down canals and things. I’d had KOM’s on these going bloody fast, and frankly as fast as was safe given you might round a bend and need to brake hard for a gang of runners, dog walkers, pushchair etc that might/might not have space to pass depending on relative placements. I got the ‘uh oh...’ email and saw red for a bit. Then got real about it and stopped caring so much. Starting a race on those segments would definitely have ended in severe injuries and probably to third parties.
I get that Strava is a useful training tool in some respects but it’s not why I ride bikes, hence I never bought into live segments etc when they came along.
@geex 😂 ‘rechargeable dandy horse’ wins teh Internet this morning!
Yeah. I also completed strava 25 years ago and as such I’m safe in the knowledge any Koms I might take on my rechargeable dandy horse will only be cheating myself. 😉
Also nice subtext of the ‘strava as gamification of...’ idea which has never wholly been true but does definitely drive some peoples’ use.
I use strava, have a few KOMs, and quite enjoy knowing I'm the fastest up a particular hill.
However, if I see someone who has clearly been on an ebike to beat me, who cares. It doesn't detract from my effort and I still know where I am in the standings.
Sounds like the OP is more concerned with losing the prestige of a KOM. Trust me, noone cares in the slightest who is fastest up a random hill so there really is no prestige to lose.
I don't consider e-bikes as anything to do with cycling. Just another motorised form of transport. Just do your own thing.
Well that is certainty true. You don’t get a KoM because you are the fastest rider, you only get it because faster riders haven’t ridden that segment.
So unless you're competing at the World Champs (in the Elite cat) all races are pointless, yeah?
You lot care about the climbs? What are you - roadies?
JP
"If you want to race, turn up, pay your money, and stick a number board on you bike. If you’re slow, you lose, if you cheat, you get DQ"
^^^This is the truth of it. Strava is not any less worthy in theory but when the accuracy can be out by 30m and never gets better than 5m its not valid. How many wheel lengths is 5m? In a real race you would lose. Best to use proper timing chips and photo finishes if available to confirm a finish position.
You lot care about the climbs? What are you – roadies?
Yep, sometimes. I ride road, off road, and BMX until a few years ago. Don't limit yourself eh...
Can only see the situation getting worse, ive seen a few KOm recently by people with 50 miles for year etc, they are fast on the uphill climbs and then slow as chuff on the downhill sections 🤭
From comments above it seems ebikers get some satisfaction out of this, which is weird as it’s not the rider doing most of that work it’s a motor, so where does the sense of achievement come from
Same as people get from riding downhill I guess.
other than hurting Stravaists fragile Ego’s.
That’s just an added bonus 😂👍
From comments above it seems ebikers get some satisfaction out of this, which is weird as it’s not the rider doing most of that work it’s a motor, so where does the sense of achievement come from
Same as people get from riding downhill I guess.
Obviously we all know riding a motorized bicycle up a hill has the same challenge as nailing that steep technical descent at speed 🙄🙄
Can only see the situation getting worse, ive seen a few KOm recently by people with 50 miles for year etc, they are fast on the uphill climbs and then slow as chuff on the downhill sections
Yes, it will get worse. However if I am placed 100 I don't really care if a few eBikes are ahead of me whereas if I am second to someone clearly using an eBike then I will flag it.
...Don’t limit yourself eh…
Can't think of anything more dull to do on a bicycle than pound along roads for mile after mile (or is it "k after k", roadies like to use kilometers as it sounds like they ride further right?)
Each to their own, but I'd rather keep away from the morons driving their idiot boxes around.
Can’t think of anything more dull to do on a bicycle than pound along roads for mile after mile
That's great, luckily nobody is forcing you to do what others clearly enjoy doing.
That’s great, luckily nobody is forcing you to do what others clearly enjoy doing.
Yet choosing not to ride road bikes is apparently "limit(ing) yourself"?
Make your mind up.
No point in getting frustrated over something that’s so inaccurate, same again with fast times/results because it’s probably wrong anyway!
I can only really see the point in strava if you are comparing yourself to your previous rides or with mates who you know. As has been said before, strava is flawed so wins are not real wins and defeats are not real defeats, they just give the illusion of them. You have have a KOM on a segment, but how do you know if anyone else was really trying? they could just be having a chat or saving themselves as part of a bigger ride. If they had gone out with the express purpose of getting that specific KOM they could have wiped the floor with your time. You just don't know.
Its all too vague and open to misrepresentation, data error or cheating. A bit like zwift.
If you want competition to benchmark yourself against others then the only way to do this properly is to race them in real time.
Well you'd never know you were genuinely the fastest rider on any given segment unless everyone who'd ever ridden a bike had also ridden it. It's a bit of a pointless argument really especially on segments with several thousand on the leaderboard.
I'm top ten on some segments where the KOM time is over an hour and the gaps between riders is in the order of minutes or tens of minutes. No arguing about placings there! Once the gap/difference between individuals or your times is more than a few seconds you are outside the range of error in the system so while the actual time might not be to Olympic standard it does reflect the ride and whether one time is faster than another.
If you try to create a segment on Strava now it won't let you create one that is shorter than about 300 metres in length purely because of inaccuracies in the system. It also moans if the segment is too similar to an existing one.
If you want competition to benchmark yourself against others then the only way to do this properly is to race them in real time.
Not always practical though ... I think Strava is a great way of benchmarking yourself against other riders riding the same routes as you ... it gives you an indication of how fast you are compared to a sample of riders
You have have a KOM on a segment, but how do you know if anyone else was really trying? they could just be having a chat or saving themselves as part of a bigger ride. If they had gone out with the express purpose of getting that specific KOM they could have wiped the floor with your time. You just don’t know.
There are various segments with 10,000+ riders on them! Yes, half of them might not have been trying but you don't get anywhere near the top 5% (or probably 20%) of a Strava leaderboard without giving close to 100%. Probably no one in the top 5% was riding into a headwind, either. I.e. it's safe to assume that if you are KOM / top 10 / top 100, you have beaten some very competent riders who have been riding their hearts out. Yes, there are inconsistencies with GPS, wind direction, chaingangs and trail conditions etc etc but that's obvious and not really worth mentioning.
At any rate, even if you don't think Strava is a legitimate form of racing, others clearly do.
I’m top ten on some segments where the KOM time is over an hour
They are generally the only ones I have a chance on. I'm relying on the other riders stopping for cake.
If people are lying about their strava times by being on an e-bike says alot more about them than it does you. Focus on your PRs, plus who's racing climbs anyway!?
I am a Strava addict too. Road descents are where it's at: not much chance of e-bike cheating on those. I did create a new segment the other day - a road descent of over a mile through a city, crossing several traffic lights and making a few turns onto different roads. I absolutely pin it on my way home back from chaingang late on a weekday evening and have hit every light on green on a few occasions, so I thought I'd have the KOM for sure. Turns out I was 20th 😀
Road descents are where it’s at: not much chance of e-bike cheating on those.
Mopeds FTW.
Damnit I'm clearly not smart enough for Strava 😀 !
Obviously we all know riding a motorized bicycle up a hill has the same challenge as nailing that steep technical descent at speed 🙄🙄
Oooh double rolley eyes. Wowza.
Who mentioned “steep or technical” riding bikes downhill is fun regardless. And requires less effort than riding any bike uphill.
So what is weird about enjoying riding an ebike up hills ?
Double rolly is for your implication that beating normal riders uphill on a E-bike is worthwhile as of itself. Obviously riding an E-bike uphill or anywhere can be enjoyable.
Should have quoted the other part of your post.
other than hurting Stravaists fragile Ego’s.
That’s just an added bonus 😂👍
I have always had a love of numbers, data, stats etc,. so Strava suits this and I like using it.
My autism explains that and it also explains why I would never go to an XC race with social interaction, lots of people etc,.
I guess that just means I have a fragile ego, get frustrated about others beating me, am sad, don't have a life, like impressing people down the pub, should enter races like they you do etc,. etc,.
‘Road descents are where it’s at: not much chance of e-bike cheating on those’
Maybe, i was under the impression that, all other things being equal, weight was king downhill, consider the weight of the average Ebike, and the weight of the average Ebiker, that might not be as clear cut as you would think. But it would only be the weight, not because of the motor.