How often do you get a full bottom out from your forks?

a full bottom out clang

Hee hee

I'm really sorry but absolutely everything is making me think of *that* other thread at the moment.

I can set up my forks to leave just a few mm for the oh shit moments on my regular trails but if I go to Stiniog or dyfi I throw that rule out and add at least 5psi to my forks
It's steeper faster and there's a whole load more weight getting thrown at that fork
No way would I go to dyfi and run my local setup
Add more psi for dyfi
Some might say add a volume spacer but I prefer a more consistent feel from start to end ofvthe stroke so look ro add pressure first and last resort add a token

Thanks!

Previously I have just run my usual set up at dyfi and Stinyog. Last October I had two days at the dyfi on my previous forks, but no bad moments.

There was one massive clang at stinyog, but that was 10+ years ago.

I don’t think I’ve ever had one.

Only one situation in recent history, off the tree drop on Thick and Creamy in the Surrey Hills, proper bottom out like I very rarely hear.  The landing is like a bomb site these days though.    I do maybe add a few psi for big days.

Hardly ever fully bottomed out. For me, that last 10-15mm is the absolute last resort "might save me, but only if it hasn't broken my wrists" bit. Others probably differ.

Very rarely. Mostly on trail centre jumps and drops that I'm semi familiar with. Everywhere else I'm riding more conservatively, tend not to use the last 15mm of 140mm most rides.

Bottom out the shock (or almost do) slightly more often through casing things.

A few days ago. Some lush North Wales secret squirrel, well it's not that secret! Took one of the alternative trail ends to the service track. ****-me was near vertical, with a small gap to the bottom of the run out, which meant a near 90 degree front wheel to ground contact. Didn't sound nice but the 160mm X-Fusion Sweep swallowed it up and I thanked my lucky stars as I thought it was a definite OTB faceplant.

Scooped landings, or worst of the worst, uphill landings can give nasty g-outs. There's a drop at Moelfre DH I've seen stop pro riders dead. Not massive (not small either) but if you didn't clear the bowl your front wheel landed uphill. So a not quite flat drop feels twice as brutal! On a smaller scale if you land in the bowls of Insufficient Funds drops at BPW, it feels like a rough ride, but if you make all the landings it's smooth sailing!

I you're only slapping the bottom out on bad landings then it's probably about right. If hitting big stuff often then more HSC or air pressure will help, usually at the expense of some small bump sensitivity. Hydraulic bottom outs (Manitou Pro and other forks) are smoother but obviously don't completely iron things out!

Fox 36 180, no matter what I chuck at it I can never get it to use the last 15mm.

I've never got anywhere near the bottom of the ramp up chamber at the end of the Ohlins.

I don't really ever bottom out, rather than adding a few psi for big riding I just end up not using all my travel for more mundane rides. I can't be bothered with changing pressure for different venues and don't really agree with the idea that you should use 100% of available travel on every ride

You've fully adjustable suspension that you can change in minutes, why wouldn't you when riding somewhere totally different?

Because I like my bike to feel consistent, and I’m not bothered about KOMs.

The bowls after the drops of Insufficient Funds are getting bigger, I swear.

Probably once every 3 or 4 rides. Unless its just a gentle spin.

If its a trail centre; most rides.

No point in having it if you don't use it.

If you bottom out when you screw up that's what they are for.
Other than that it depends which bike and how appropriate it is for what I'm riding.

I run smashpots on the HT, Enduro and eMTB... and it has a hydraulic bottom out so other than tuning only if I forget to ramp it up... normal riding its 3-4/12 .. on the other hand when I take the Jack Flash to bike parks with the cheapass forks I paid £90 for (Reba silver I think?) quite a bit off the bigger features... just send it and try and keep rubber down.

I do have a specific huck to flat I use for setting suspension up... I tend to just send that and dial it in till 90% that leaves 10% for complete screw ups.. it's "my" huck though.. chosen as it's as big as I'd do most times and you can just send it and land front or rear first ... but find your own .. it's mine!!!
(It's not secret or special but I think you should find your own based on being "as big as you normally ride" and something repeatable for you)

don’t really agree with the idea that you should use 100% of available travel on every ride

Agreed...

I probaly would change HSC rather than air pressure, TBH, if i was goint to hit big stuff ....
But thinking about it, I catually jsut set my bike up for 'riding' and on gentler trails just use half the travel I guess!

DrP

Not got anywhere near it on my Z2's (or the Escarpe + RS Delux they're attached to).

There's always been 20-30mm fork travel left, and ~15mm of the shocks shaft unused.

No point in having it if you don’t use it.

Disagree, set it up so it feels right and works well. Just because it only uses ~130mm of the 150mm, doesn't mean it would feel the same on an under sprung 130mm bike. And the difference between 130mm bottoming out and 135mm not bottoming out with another 15mm in reserve is potentially a big difference just when you need it.

The current crop of big diameter forks with massive negative springs do seem overly progressive though. Back in the days of 32mm forks you'd get that uncontrolled middle bit before they became linear/progressive again towards the end. The modern way just seems to be linear through the middle portion and then super progressive at the end. Would it be that hard to engineer the air springs ~20mm longer?

I'd be curious to know peoples riding weight Vs if they run reducer tokens. Is it light weights running less pressure, or just down to riding style/clumsiness with riding gods and absolute beginners needing a helping hand, and those of us in the middle riding within our limits?

When I had BOS suspension both ends it felt like I could run it with so much sag but never feel them bottom out but they didn't feel super progressive, they were great.

How often do you get a full bottom out from your forks?

Virtually never, though I am pretty smooth (ex-bmxer); I am incredibly fussy with suspension & know exactly what I like - because I move my body around a lot on the bike I like firm yet quick to react - very stable around the sag point. I think this results in my arms & legs do a lot of the work (on big hits etc), which ultimately means I rarely get anywhere near bottom out.

Thanks!

Next time I go on an uplift I'll change my settings. This is the first time I've bottomed a fork in years.

@intheborders

You’ve fully adjustable suspension that you can change in minutes, why wouldn’t you when riding somewhere totally different?

They felt ace for two days, right untill I got something wrong!

Normally I'd keep the settings the same for a singletrack day or a jumpy day. It's only if something feels off that I'd change settings.

Once over 20yrs ago on a pair of late90s 80mm Manitou forks when I wasn't a very smooth rider and just used to blast through everything. I did however bottom out the 110mm rear shock of my Anthem on last Sundays ride. It had been raining heavily and had washed out a big trough across the trail I was riding down. It was on a downhill and as I approached it was right in my line and I couldn't steer round it, I pulled the front up and tried to get as much of the back over it as I could but heard that clang and felt the travel stop soaking up!

They felt ace for two days, right untill I got something wrong!

Normally I’d keep the settings the same for a singletrack day or a jumpy day. It’s only if something feels off that I’d change settings.

Nothing wrong with that ... or changing if you like so long as you remember to set them back.
They saved your ass .. but of a clunk ...

Personally I'm the sort of person forgets to switch a lockout off at the top so I rarely use one even if I have one.
By far my biggest and loudest bottom out was taking a bike set up for my kid of 35kg off a decent size drop. I'd already done the drop 4-5 times and landed smoothly.. 5-6 times I messed up and it sounded like a gunshot. More embarrassment as everyone looked at me.

I'm sure when decent suspension first came out (I'm talking 100mm front and back) the advice was that we should bottom it out once or twice a ride.

Now, I'm old-tech (still on 26" wheels/Marzocchi 55 forks) and have custom tuned my own shim stacks for front and rear shocks a few times over the years when needed (i.e when the adjuster range won't go far enough).

The forks I run are the much-heralded RC3Ti which people still rave about. I'm 90kg so no lightweight. They're kept serviced and in good shape by me, but there is no way I get any more than 60% travel out of them with the springs in there. I've even jumped with my full bodyweight onto the handlebars (which is very unlikely to ever happen whilst riding - even at BPW) and can't get them to compress fully, yet they're widely accredited as being the best there was.

I've converted them to air (take the springs out, stick more oil in to reduce the air volume and pop an air cap on that leg - open bath so easy peasy). I now get around 155mm out of the 170mm-travel forks on a typical trail centre visit, but know I'll get the last 15mm if things get really hairy.

I just don't see the point of running 170mm forks and only getting 100mm.

I bottomed some 55 rc3ti forks at stinyog. They made the most enormous CLANG before spitting me right off. That's the only time I ever bottomed them. Awesome forks.

I had totally got it wrong and spent 5 min watching folk ride the feature at pace like it was nothing.

Wow! There's no way I could do that - I'd definitely be off big style if I hit anything hard enough to bottom them with the spring they came with (that's 3 pairs on three different bikes by the way, so I think it's the standard one they shipped with).

I do think there's a huge amount of guff spoken about MTB suspension, I think it's because so much of the mass of the sprung weight is the rider, and even relatively inept riders are extremely good at compensating for bumps in the course (simply stand up and bend your knees).

So it comes down to personal preference, and IN MY OPINION wherever there is an ability to spout guff (hifi, wine, magic wristbands, etc etc) you'll find companies doing exactly that - smashpots, megnegs etc etc are the equivalent of oxygen-free cables to those worshiping at the suspension guru's altar OR they fix an inherent design flaw in the extremely expensive thing that you bought already, which is crap when you think about it.

I have a feeling that the classic suspension units that caught people's admiration are simply those which provide a range of adjustment that covers all personal preferences (e.g. the RC3TI compression and suspension settings can be adjusted to rebound with a vicious kick or take about 3 days - covers all bases)

So it comes down to personal preference, and IN MY OPINION wherever there is an ability to spout guff (hifi, wine, magic wristbands, etc etc) you’ll find companies doing exactly that – smashpots, megnegs etc etc are the equivalent of oxygen-free cables to those worshiping at the suspension guru’s altar OR they fix an inherent design flaw in the extremely expensive thing that you bought already, which is crap when you think about it.

There is certainly a lot of personal preference... but its also a bit of guff and a lot of compromise

provide a range of adjustment that covers all personal preferences (e.g. the RC3TI compression and suspension settings can be adjusted to rebound with a vicious kick or take about 3 days – covers all bases)

The RC2 has more adjustment but doesn't have a lockout so people who's preference is for a lockout get an inferior damper in terms of acting like a damper. However both have internal adjustments anyone with an IQ above a brain damaged baboon should be able to do.

Then the Charger 2.0 was no better to most than the original... vs 2.1
The Debonair Rev B was a total bag of shit in response to ignorant customer preferences... complete idiots who claim they paid for a certain travel and are too stupid to work out it goes both ways so RS did an inferior airshaft just to answer moans from idiots..Sadly that's marketing ...

Vorsprung stuck to their guns on the Luftkappa (which is what prompted the Debonaire) and just said if you are too stupid to use them don't buy our products. Then of course the whole solo air/NA lineup is just an inferior product due to some people being too stupid to use a separate negative chamber valve.

So it's all of the above... guff for the sake of guff but also guff for the sake of people's preferences even when the guff is to cover up a worse product due to customer stupidity. For the mass market most of the guff and compromises are because so many people are so stupid they can't ride and breath at the same time. So many people buy a top end fork because "it's the best" and either have no idea how to set it up (or that it needs to be set up) or their LBS says they can tune it for them to make a sale. (and unless they are the same weight/riding style or are going to go and spend 1-2 days with them riding then it's just more guff)

This is why the niche suspension manufacturers and aftermarket products and companies exist because the mass market products are deliberately compromised for stupid people.
It's not at the level of low oxygen interconnects to use your analogy, its at the difference between your £5 Amazon headphones and a mid range pair...

Some stuff does get esoteric... Since you mention two products the Meg Neg and Smashpot... Meg Neg is a option when frame manufacturers have to compromise. Some people have a preference for a bottle cage for example over their suspension so frame designers make compromises and the meg neg can help overcome those.

Smashpot is a coil with hydraulic bottom out - now copied by RS on the super deluxe coil... that J-Tech refuse to sell because they say it's so bad with the stock damper they won't sell it to you unless you fit their aftermarket one??? Do you really need nitrogen to re-pressurise a shock etc?

Dunno, if you go back to interconnects then can most people tell the difference between a 6n and 9n cable?
I guess it depends on so many other things such as the rest of the kit, the actual audio recording quality but also the place you are listening???

It's a bit like that with suspension... a badly set up shock or fork is badly set up regardless but if you take the time and do set them up then the quality is very obvious.

Can anyone tell the difference between a nitrogen filled and dry air filled shock or kashima? Probably not or maybe someone does that all day, every day? - like the 8N vs 9N interconnects??