[Closed] How much sealant to use in tubeless set up?

100-120 for 29ers, more if 2.6+

1 stans scoop in the 700c and 2 scoops in the 29er. So what you said and double for the 29er.

Am I doing something wrong here? My tyres are so tight on the rim that I can't get my lever under the bead. Trying to warm them up on radiator but not really helping so far.

Unseat all the bead on both sides and push it into the central channel on the rim. More room then.

That's what I'm having trouble doing though.

Edit - ok now.

60ml for running procore, 75-90ml if not, like it says on the box. (for MTB, not sure how much for road, half that sounds reasonable.)

Oh ok. I assume this is the 700c? I have had to use a big dh type tyre lever before on new road tubeless tyres. Thinner tip, metal construction and lots of leverage.

Get valves with removable valve cores, then add sealant via the valve. Much easier than popping the bead on the tyre off the rim.

(EDIT: maybe that's what you're doing, I'm not sure).

One of the tyres just won't seat. It's lubricated with soapy water. I don't have an electric pump. Anything I can do?

You can try the tyre lever method.

There's a youtube video which I can never find.

Put a tyre lever under the bead as though you were going to pop the tyre off. But then instead of levering all the way up, just lever until it's perpendicular to the rim.

Then slide it around the rim until it gets so tight that you can't slide it any more. That sliding lifts the bead up onto the "shoulders" of the rim, which is where you want it.

Repeat on the other side.

Then have another go at inflating using your trusty coke bottle inflator (or a track pump and super-strong arms).

This has worked for me on a number of tyres that really didn't want to know.

I give up on it. The tyre is so tight it refuses to slide off the middle of the rim and the levers are useless, If I'd known it would be this much of a ball ache I would have stuck with tubes.

Remember Robert the Bruce & the spider.

I got one of these - I've had no bother with any tiyres since 🙂

https://www.upgradebikes.co.uk/Catalogue/Workshop-Tools/Proform/Proform-Tyre-Tool

Well the one which won't seat will seat with a tub inside but not until about 35 psi, and I noticed the rim tape is a little folded over on itself or crimped so it probably need changing.

Also the wheel that did seat leaks at about 30 psi. Seems maybe it's not properly seated?

Yeah the air in the tyre that seated ok actually escapes between the valves and the valve flange in the rim, like the seal isn't good past 20 psi.

If you use Stans Raced Sealant you can't put that in through the valve as it clogs it.

Sounds like the tape is nicked on the leaking wheel too and the air is making its way to the valve hole. I would re - tape that one too.

I always put a bit more than what the manufacturer recommends, that way if you get weepage it doesn't really matter.

OP - possibly daft question, but are you using proper tubeless tyres on tubeless (ready) rims and have you taped (tubeless tape) the rims etc?  Sorry, had to ask 🙂

Yeah they are advertised as tubeless ready, they are Kore Realm 2.7 and the tyres are WTB TCS. I used some Stan's valves but they didn't seem to seat too well in the flanges.

Even with a home-made gasket I can't get a seal past 20 psi around the Stan's valve. It's like maybe the flange is too small for the rubber wedge to properly seat in? Either way my experience so far with tubeless is not good. Seems total garbage.

The 700 c x 32 c is impossible to seat as well. Like trying to pump up a sieve. Just cant get any pressure at all to work with.

3 wheels, 3 failures. Can't understand why I even wanted to go tubeless.

Do you have sealant in ? The valve won’t seal without it. Also, without a tyre booster or compressor it isn’t always possible to get the tyres to seat. A Booster costs about £40 and is a godsend for this. I can rarely get tyres to seat with just trackpump.

I think you are unlucky in your rim/tyre combos. Most nowadays go up with barely any effort with a track pump. Some need a burst from an airshot or compressor, but a lot don't .

Can you borrow an airshot or similar from someone nearby?

I'm gonna get a compressor from Amazon.

**** yeah I put sealant it!

Yeah they are advertised as tubeless ready, they are Kore Realm 2.7 and the tyres are WTB TCS. I used some Stan’s valves but they didn’t seem to seat too well in the flanges.

They might be tubeless ready rims. But might not have had tubeless tape fitted (unless I've missed something in skimming this thread)?

Make sure rims are clean and dry.

Tape the rims. If they tyres are a looser fit, a couple of wraps might be best. Tape them carefully, plenty of finger pressure in the channel and up on the shoulders. I used a hairdryer afterwards to soften the tape & make the adhesive more sticky, but that might be overkill.

I used a couple of inner tubes with the tyres on the wheels pumped up high overnight to straighten out the folds in the tyre beads and press down the rim tape.

Release the bead on one side, remove inner tube, insert valve (need a small, neat hole in the rim tape), lock nut done up nice & tight.

Fairy liquid on the rim hook / tyre bead. Splurge in some sealant. Pop the bead back onto the rim. Tyrelever trick to pull the bead onto the shoulder.

Remove valve core. Connect air shot. Let in air. Remove nozzle and quickly insert valve core (you will lose quite a bit of air. Pump back up. Rotate the wheel all ways / splosh the sealant around.

Job (hopefully) done.

It does need care. And doing properly. And a bit of luck.

(Hark at me, I've only done one set of wheels, and had other failed tubeless attempts before)

I can't get the tyre lever to pull the bead onto the shoulder. It just doesn't work.

Honestly I sick to death of this. I wasn't planning on riding my MTB for a week or two but my road bike I need. Now it's wheels off and waiting for a compressor (if that even works). I could put the tubes back in but every time I take wheel off I need to remove mudguard. Huge PITA for something I probably need to check the sealant of every 2 months anyway. Most useless bike technology I've seen since oval chain rings.

I love tubeless, it can be a faff but I usually manage without compressed air.

Try teasing the tyre out the of the well with your thumbs. I usually start with no sealant and no valve fitted and pump like ****.

If you can’t get a lever in to pull the bead how do you get an inner tube in and out ? Something isn’t right with tyre/rim combo by the sounds of it.

Have you not got any co2 canisters, they should get them seated

If you can’t get a lever in to pull the bead how do you get an inner tube in and out ? Something isn’t right with tyre/rim combo by the sounds of it.

That takes the bead over the rim. Seating the bead isn't the same as having it within the rim.

It seems that the rim bed is too shallow for the tyres. Do you know how many layers of tubeless tape are on it ? Some tapes need one wrap, some thinner ones 2 or more. I think I’d be taking all the tape off and retaping the rim with a single wrap (plus 8 inch overlap at valve) of Stans tape or a couple of wraps of Tesa tape. Do you know what width of tape is on ? (and what is internal rim width) ?

Co2 worked great eventually!  Lots of soapy water around the bead and with co2 it popped on first time.

It does need care. And doing properly. And a bit of luck.

While I don't really disagree with the first 2 points as genrall advice to anything I have never taken any care and always done it is a few minutes so I must have a lot of luck.  I have probably setup around 5 sets of  tubeless tyres and none have taken more than 10 minutes

Put on tape, press down a bit

Cut cross shape for valve with stanley knife

Do up valve with pliers to get it really tight

Put on tyre and pump up with track pump

Remove valve core, syringe in sealant

Pump up tyre with track pump

Ok one tyre on my MTB is now good. The sealant worked on the leak around the valve.

Will try other MTB tyre now,

I was trying the gravel bike again. I think by pushing the rim onto the shoulder with my thumbs I can make enough of a seal for the track pump to work well enough, thing is once I get a few psi into the system the air leaks around the valve flange like anything. 10 x worse than on the MTB like it may as well have no valve there. Can't get more than a few psi into the tyre cos of this.

I dunno what is wrong. Have a small gasket I home made. Valve is pretty tight. Is the rim tape all wrong? Seems like maybe air is getting under it?

That looks like ordinary rim tape to me not sticky stuff.

Tape looks suspect and certainly has a lot of sealant under. What tape is it? Doesn't look like stans/tesa.

Yeah I'll get some Stan's tape.

It's never going to work properly with a standard rim tape.

Yeah I'll get some rim tape tomorrow.

One thing I notice doing this is how shitty/bodged the valve fastens/interfaces with the tubeless rim. For at start you don't have perfectly flat surface on the inner and outer rim, yet you want to use a round wedge and a flat locking nut to make a seal.

This is a tubed design, made to easily accept a valve bonded to the inner tube with minimum fuss, now mechanically comprised in accepting tubeless.

Far better to weld/machine a threaded flange or nipple to the rim itself and screw on your valve of choice. You could either use PTFE tape or machine a small flat to create a seal with an o ring.

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative, but you have gone to town slating tubeless setup as a faff, but you aren’t actually using tubeless rim tape, despite a few of us asking about it earlier on. There are some really good YouTube clips from Stans and others that take you through the whole process, from start to finish. On your valve point, the tubeless valves all tend to be rubber based which sit well on tubeless rim tape. The seal is not on the outside, all the lock nut does is compress things inside the rim where it seals with its rubber base against the tubeless rim tape.

One thing I notice doing this is how shitty/bodged the valve fastens/interfaces with the tubeless rim. For at start you don’t have perfectly flat surface on the inner and outer rim, yet you want to use a round wedge and a flat locking nut to make a seal.

As Ian says, the seal is between the valve and the tubeless tape. If you'd done a tiny bit of research or spoken to someone in your local bikeshop or even asked on here rather than just plunging in thinking you knew it all you'd have found the process a lot less painful.

Just to add balance (not smugness, honest)
Just put together a new tubeless setup (for only the second time in my life).
Hope 20five 700c rims
Two layers of Stans tape
Simple cross cut, to poke Stans valve through
59ml sealant in each tyre
40mm nano rear
42mm resolute front

Popped tyres on, left the last bit open, poured in sealant, levered rest of tyre onto rim.

Used a bog std (little bit knackered) track pump and bingo! Straight up, bead seated at around 45psi, still holding pressure now, 3hrs later, no seapage

Seriously a piece of cake, although maybe I just got lucky, or maybe they will explode overnight, or maybe burp off the rim when I finally ride them...

The MTB wheels are good now, just wasn't a great seal around the valve which the latex eventually sealed up.

The gravel bikes wheels were very fiddly to hand 'seat' the bead before pumping. Ok so right now the tape is their undoing but no way even with 'proper tape' would it simply be a case of throwing the tyres on and pumping up easy.

 Ok so right now the tape is their undoing but no way even with ‘proper tape’ would it simply be a case of throwing the tyres on and pumping up easy.

Why do you say that? With tubeless ready tyres, rims, valves, tape and some sealant it should be pretty straightforward.

^^^^ and I bet the MTB ones go flat seeing as they don't have tubeless tape on the rims 🙂

I still say this is a laughably bad engineering solution. The MTB's rear sealed fine the front has lost a little pressure.

I put some tubeless tape on the gravel bike. Rear would get a reasonable seal with a home made valve gasket. Seems to have healed itself. The front so far leaks even worse around the valve and currently hoping it will self-seal but so far it's too bad.

For me the two best innovations in mountain biking in the last ten years have been 1x drive trains and tubeless tyres. On Sunday for example I picked up a large thorn in the front tyre (still attached to its branch!). I just pulled it out, spun the wheel once to seal it and carried on riding like nothing had happened.

Well I used up the rest of my rim tape with another wrap. Still no luck. The sealant just pissed out around the valve. Two days wasted on this garbage. Will need new rim tape and more sealant even if this joke of a system will even work. No o-rings or thread to put ptfe just makes it laughable compromised form engineering point of view. I'd never advise anyone to use this shit.

Some years ago someone one here pointed me to the Stans youtube video

I still do all the wheels this way and have never had a problem with any of them. I did two new wheels that came with a bike on Saturday afternoon in just under 20 mins which included removing the existing tubes.

Something doesn't seem right but cant make it out from what you are saying. Can you post up some more pics so we can help.

The video has nothing about the tape or valve. The valve to rim interface is where it leaks like mad. Honesty with the way the rubber wedge sits it looks to me like a ****ing shit way to seal.

How many times? That's not the source of the leak. It's the point at which the air is escaping. You're slagging it off like the village idiot with half the tools to do the job. It's like having half an inner tube in the tyre and wondering why it won't blow up.

Do it properly. Use some sticky tape, not non tubeless specific rim tape (which is about as useful as Velox cloth tape in this application). Go and buy some Stans tape, or Gorilla tape, couple of layers round the rim, cut a small hole to put the valve through, do it up, tyre on, sealant in just before the end & blow it up. if you're really unlucky in getting it to seat properly, put a bit of soapy water round the bead.

If you can't manage that, maybe you should just stick to tubes.

It was Schwalbe tubeless so don't call me an idiot. Admittedly it wasn't very sticky.

That pictures you have posted up is not tubeless tape - you can see all the sealant underneath it!

The tape is meant to seal the rim, not let all the sealant (and air) under it....

laughable compromised form engineering point of view.

And yet people have been able to manage to tubeless all sorts of none tubeless wheel and tyre combos for years with little fuss.
Its not the tubeless that's the problem here.
Still you knock yourself out and ignore the good advice that people have given you.

That pictures you have posted up is not tubeless tape – you can see all the sealant underneath it!

The tape is meant to seal the rim, not let all the sealant (and air) under it…

I replaced that tape.

Which rims & which tyres are you using?

Have a look at this, it works with any tape including duct tape if that's all that's about. For someone who has asked for help you aren't helping any of us

Still no luck. The wheel with the blue tape goes from about 40 psi to 10 psi in 20 mins. The one with the Stan's yellow tape leaks like a sieve around the valve. This is Stan's tubeless tape but it's not at all sticky and air can easily get under it to the spoke holes. I assume that air pressure is supposed to force it down and seal it?

Unless anyone knows what I'm doing wrong then I am done with this. At least 8 hrs of work wasted and time to move back to tubed except for the MTB.

I did my first ever tubeless tyre install this week.
I used gorilla tape, after checking it was the right width, as that's what I had.
Admittedly it was then a real pain to get the tyre beads up on to the raised part of the rim enough that at least some air would stay inside. Eventually managed that and it inflated with just my track pump.

The down side is that it deflates fairly quickly. However, in my case it turns out there is a hole in the sidewall of the tyre (Grrr). I can feel the air coming out with my hand over it and can see sealant coming out too. I'm hoping it seals itself up.

It's absolutely vital the tape seals the spoke and valve holes. Air pressure does not hold it down. It needs to be stuck so that the air can't get past. Really carefully check every hole to make sure there are no gaps or bubbles. Make sure the wheel rim is clean, dry and grease free before trying to stick tape to it.

The yellow tape in your last pic doesn't appear to be stuck to the rim. It even seems to have a 'dent' in it. I can't see that holding air in at all.
The blue one looks better, but it still looks like it might have gaps. It's hard to tell from the pic.

If it's leaking out around the valve, after making sure the tape is properly sealed, cut as small a hole as possible to get the valve through. Then make sure it is tightly screwed in.

The theory is simple. Every part must be air tight. The tape seals the valve and spoke holes in the wheel. The sealant fills in any (small enough) holes in the tyre.
In practice it can be fiddly, but it really does work.

The Stans tape is sticky but you look like you have not done a good job of putting it on as it looks too loose . You need a clean and dry rim and you have to pull the tape tight when you apply it , also on the wheel with the blue tape your bodged gasket is doing nothing to help, you would be better off removing it and the valve will seal perfectly well . You could probably salvage the situation by putting a tube in and inflating it and leaving it over night as that should get the tape to stick down and then try to get the tyre to inflate tubeless .

The rim was cleaned. The tape isn't particularly sticky and it has that crinkly 'stiff' feel which means it 'does not want to lay flat' very easy. Perhaps it's too wide because it has to sit in a bit of a valley and it tends to 'crinkle'.

I'd probably be better off with gaffer tape.

That tape looks way too slack, it's needs to be pulled on with some tension not just placed into the rim.
I always use Gorilla tape I've had a 100% success rate.
The only reason this isn't working is how you are doing it

That tape looks way too slack, it’s needs to be pulled on with some tension not just placed into the rim.

I already said. The Stan's tape does not stick to the rim.

Well it does for everybody else . I work in the trade and for the last 10 years I have probably done an average of 2 or 3 tubeless conversions a week during that time , usually with Stans tape and it does stick , the valves do seal , the sealant does seal any small leaks and it does work 100% of the time if you do it properly.

I'll repeat my earlier question. Which rims, which tyres?

As said already you've really got to pull on the Stan's tape to get a good seal. I find if you put the roll of tape somewhere warm first it's easier to stretch on the rim.

Saying that I've used Gorilla tape for my last two pair of wheels. My gravel/road wheels being the most recent, probably 30/40 minutes to do the pair.

Thought I had sorted this now using a thinner tape (0.5") and doing two wraps which overlap and so sit better in the concave part of the rim.

Sadly though I'm still slowly losing pressure.

Not sure what issue is. Cleaned the hell out of the rims with alcohol and tape sticks but not fantastic. When I put the valves in I notice as the rubber wedge beds down on the rim it pushed up very slightly the tape adjacent to it.

Very frustrating and gonna give it 24hrs and if still not holding will go back to tubes.

Sometimes I find you need to actually ride the bike for a bit to get the sealant sloshing around enough to seal.
When I did my gravel bike (Pacenti CL25, Tesa tape & WTB Horizon) they only stayed inflated for about an hour, until I went for a 30 min ride around the block at which point they stayed up.
In the many times I’ve set wheels up tubeless over the years it’s always been operator error that has resulted in failure, usually either tape being insufficiently stuck down or something like over tightening the valve and deforming the seal.

Yeah I actually rode on them for an hour but the front is noticeably losing pressure and the rear is down to 10 psi from 60 overnight.

Took the tyres off and in a couple of places the rim tape has lifted off at the edges.

Rims could not have been cleaner. Cleaned in alcohol.

These are gravel bike rims with quite a concave to them.

I've given up. May take them to a local LBS to line with tubeless rim tape down the road.