[Closed] How much of an asset are mtbs for Wales?

Oh dear...you mean like 7Stanes? Would be good but would then be done purely for tourism revenue and funding for that doesn't cover maintenance...
Can you FOI the Welsh government/tourism board to ask for figures? I suspect they generate a lot of cash, but getting that cash spent across a huge area is hard if the appeal of riding in that wider area isn't there...

Each bike liberated keeps the Glyncorrwg local neds in scag for about 30 mins, so it's not to be underestimated.

Having lived in rural ceridigion for 18 years ,i'd say quite a bit indirectly and if you asked the welsh assembly in cymraig they'd have reply but if you ask in english you'll be ignored.

Now live in Ireland and dominated by roadies overhere.

Working on it though !!

NRW say £23million but thats just MTB stuff, won't include stuff like EG Dragon ride, Velothon or people coming over the bridge to use the Velodrome at Newport

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31556008

Saw last nights Countryfile from the Ashdown Forest and realised what a complete waste of a resource/revenue stream banning bikes from the forest there is.

A family friendly cycle trail centre - something like Hicks Lodge up here - would bring lots of people to the area who would spend money for the day.

Glad we moved away from the NIMBYS down there though.

The impact can be slow and spread. Talking to some locals over here they prefer the ideas of business building slowly to match and adjust to the change as they will be more likely to stick around after the first bad day.
In that area there are offers on the local pub, cafe's opening and houses finally selling.
https://www.specialized.com/au/en-au/destination-trail-tasmania
The internet has certainly changed how we launch these things, don't think they did this for cyb

There's a brilliant analysis for Laggan you can find online but tl;dr- the benefit to the local area returned the initial investment in a single year.

You've got to be a wee bit careful about this stuff because to some extent it's just moving money around- if you go to BPW instead of innerleithen then sure you're drawing money to one area but you're not creating money, you're just taking it from the borders. The real wins come when you create extra holidays, extra trips, get more people riding and that, I don't think you can realistically measure tbh.

Lots,

I was very, very slightly involved with Cognation at the start of it and the figures involved certainly made the millions they invested seem like a good investment, I seem to recall it was £6 for North Wales and £5m for South Wales.

I personally think North Wales did a better job of things, I personally don't think all of the money was well spent in South Wales and now it's gone local councils seem very reluctant to maintain the momentum.

You can tell the how highly they rate it by the amount of MTB time shown on the 'Visit Wales' ads they run.

if you go to BPW instead of innerleithen then sure you're drawing money to one area but you're not creating money, you're just taking it from the borders. The real wins come when you create extra holidays, extra trips, get more people riding and that, I don't think you can realistically measure tbh.

I believe a lot of the original funds for MTB centres were put forward by the EU as part of a sustainable development grant because - technically - Wales on its own was (is?) a third world country. So from that point of view I'd say they're quite an asset.

Happy to be proven wrong on this!

I reckon year by year Mountain Rescue stats, overall and by team/area might give you a decent overview of changes to use.

The counterargument there is that multiple venues can grow the customer base- that definitely seems t be what's happened in wales with the new uplift venues. Fort William could easily benefit from having a load more people doing uplifts at inners on a range of trails and going "this isn't just for the mental". And same argument applies everywhere. Instead of fighting over the current 10 people, try and get 30 people to do it.

(for the travelling pound, Afan doesn't compete with Brechfa, BPW and Cwymcarn; having them all together makes a week in south wales a good option, if there was only one of those places no bugger'd go there)

Seems like most of Southern England view Wales as an outdoor adventure park, so I'd imagine quite a lot. North Wales has been full of people walking and climbing for decades, but not the South. However count how many nice MTBs you see on cars on the M4 on a Friday and you'll get an idea.

Postwar, seemingly every other family from the North West had a weeks holiday in North Wales.

Not so much now, obviously, but campsites are always full on Summer Weekends.
Lots more day and weekend trips IME, but you don't tend to spend as much on short visits.

We still go a lot, as do our non-outdoorsy childhood mates.
Taking the kids/grandkids camping in the same places you enjoyed as a child seems to be universal.

Seems like most of Southern England view Wales as an outdoor adventure park, so I'd imagine quite a lot. North Wales has been full of people walking and climbing for decades, but not the South. However count how many nice MTBs you see on cars on the M4 on a Friday and you'll get an idea.

But those car's are on the M4, and a lot of them go up on Saturday morning and back Saturday night, so if Wales is lucky they'll buy lunch in a cafe. But there must be a pyramid above those, for every 100 people that drive from Swindon to Afan for the day, there'll be 10 who stay for an evening meal, and one who stays in a B&B.

I'll quite happily admit that I'm the bloke who arrives at the GT car park at 1am, buys an all day parking ticket, sleeps till sunrise, rides all day, cooks on a camping stove sat on the boot, bivi's overnight, rides the next day and goes home. I think my sum contribution to the borders economy was a tank or petrol, 2 parking tickets, £20 in the co-op and a Chinese takeaway. Then again, that is probably £130, so it's still not nothing despite being about as cheap as it could practicably be.

Well I see a lot on Friday night, so one would assume quite a few of them are staying. And there are plenty of threads on here about people staying over. Ok so it's not thousands of people, but I bet it's more tourists than would normally come to Glyncorrwg or Merthyr.

Where the tourists go is probably as important as how much they spend. I doubt anyone went up to Glyncorrwg ever unless they lived there, before the trail centre.

Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

I believe a lot of the original funds for MTB centres were put forward by the EU as part of a sustainable development grant because - technically - Wales on its own was (is?) a third world country. So from that point of view I'd say they're quite an asset.

Happy to be proven wrong on this!

I don't think we're quite a 3rd world country, but there's a reason why there are MTB facilities are in and around former mining towns etc and not in say Cardiff which has none really.

There's typically a different ideology between Westminster Funding and EU Funding - Westminster typically goes for 'efficiency' so you get ideas like a 3rd runway for Heathrow - it's one of the busiest airports in the world, it's in one of the most densely populated areas in the UK so it "makes sense" to increase it's capacity, but that sort of thinking inevitably leads to centralisation - we invest more in the the South East because that's where the money is, and there's more money there because we invested more there so it's very self-fulfilling. This was the sort of thing that lead to Wales, Scotland and the North of England declining in the 70s', 80's and 90's/

EU funding goes the other way, they prefer to invest in more deprived areas for redevelopment - you don't get the quickest of biggest return on investment - but it creates wealth and opportunity where it's needed most.

MTB investment is very slow to return I think, the Cognation project was probably enough to elevate the idea of a trip to South Wales from a day trip to a weekend for some people, but I think people coming here for a week like you might do for PDS or Whistler is still a way off, perhaps in 10 years there might be a lift running at BPW and a couple of lodges or something springing up to give people somewhere to stay and we'll all be telling people to "get out of the park for a day" and ride the 'real' South Wales like they say about Whistler or such, but it'll be a long road without a Ski Industry to bring in the big money in the off season.

Wales on its own was (is?) a third world country.

What?

That sort of direct economic measure is also very narrow in terms of benefits these sort of projects bring.

What does it do for local kids socially?
What does it do for the NHS in terms of wider health benefits?
etc.

£24million IIRC.

I don't think we're quite a 3rd world country...

It genuinely wasn't meant to offend, hence the 'technically'. I'm afraid history has blurred the exact reasoning, but I believe it was to do with Wales's financial turnover as an independent country (as opposed to part of the union). At the time I was told this (by someone involved heavily with the Welsh MTB scene and its relationship with the FC) he compared it to how the EU viewed Poland.

...but there's a reason why there are MTB facilities are in and around former mining towns etc and not in say Cardiff which has none really.

Quite. The fact there's some amazing, accessible scenery is the icing on the cake.

Have heard a Casualty doc from the Heath in Cardiff muttering about the work they get now from BPW. Makes a change from thumbs dislocated by rugby balls and Friday night Caroline St shenanigans.

It genuinely wasn't meant to offend, hence the 'technically'.

I'm not offended at all, I just think it's ridiculous even if there are official metrics. Ever been to an actual third world country?

But that's digression. Anyway the Valleys has the topography and the cheap land. Around Cardiff most stuff is either posh people's houses or the farms for their horses. Having said that, Cwmcarn is 'around' Cardiff by most standards, really.

A couple of summers ago as a follow up to the region wide eye opening economic impact study, Squamish bike association did a study on weekend bike traffic at key trail heads to establish the economic impact of mountain bikers visiting squamish. The number $4million was conservatively placed on the benefit to the town.
Since that report, biking traffic has increased further and we are seeing more multi-day destination visitors coming for a mini vacation and for the riding we have.
It is a key economic driver in this one small town with a 20k population.
Wales must be doing pretty well out of bikers.

[url= http://www.sorca.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Economic-Impact-of-Mountain-Biking-in-Squamish.pdf ]study link[/url]

This study has been successfully used to procure grants and funding to build more trails to widens Squamish's appeal to riders across all levels.

I just think it's ridiculous even if there are official metrics.

So do I, but I also understand it. There are houses between the Afan centres that 10-ish years ago were on the market for around £11k.

Ever been to an actual third world country?

Yes. I lived in one for six months. 🙂

Cwmcarn is 'around' Cardiff by most standards, really.

Are you an estate agent, 'around' Cardiff 😆 I think you meant to write Newport.

Valleys has the topography and the cheap land.

Yes but a load of old slag heaps is hardly going to compete with the Alps or BC, so it'll only be weekend warriors from Englandshire making the trip.

Cognation project was probably enough to elevate the idea of a trip to South Wales from a day trip to a weekend for some people, but I think people coming here for a week like you might do for PDS or Whistler is still a way off

We've been having at least one week a year in either the North or the South for the last 5 years.

If we do the North we stay around Capel Curig. Go to CYB, get a couple of uplift days at Antur, trip out to NYA and one or two natural rides.

There are loads of options to fill a week in the South. We can't be the only ones who do this.

How many holiday rental places offer 'secure bike storage'? ISTR in a comparable area of Scotland most do.

I remember, yonks ago, overhearing something said in a cafe at CyB. It was along the lines of 'we are open all year, there was a chap just left, he comes for a weekend every month from S England. Most places here close in the winter.'

Maybe it's not the usual seasonal holiday business.

I'm only in Brizzle, so I head over the bridge to ride regularly. Now I think about it, I'm sad to say that most of the money I spend is in a service station. Mainly because I can't keep an eye on the bike (on the roof of the car) from the TC cafes, and/or because the TC food is a bit crap (cwmcarn) or horribly overpriced (CYB). I do tend to spend in the bike shops though, Skyline must have had a fortune out of me in odds and sods.

Yes but a load of old slag heaps

You're being silly now. There's 300m of elevation change at Glyncorrwg.

And yes it's not Whistler, but of course it's a hell of a lot cheaper. The two aren't comparable. You might as well complain that Dacia aren't as good as Mercedes.

29ers must be worth more to Welsh economy than 26ers

I tend to try and eat in a local cafe if possible, but last time I went to bpw the only place open at 07:30 - 08:00 ish in murtha tydfil was a tescos.

Last time I went it was arrive late afternoon, stick the tent up at the camp site, quick blast on Y Wal, pub dinner and then 5-6 hours on the rest of the trails (W2, bits of skyline etc). Not saying it's better than the "natural" trails we normally ride down in Somerset but it's a nice change and hoping to go back for a weekend this year and maybe do some other areas in south wales and probably stay in B&Bs and enjoy more welsh pub grub.

It genuinely wasn't meant to offend, hence the 'technically'. I'm afraid history has blurred the exact reasoning, but I believe it was to do with Wales's financial turnover as an independent country (as opposed to part of the union). At the time I was told this (by someone involved heavily with the Welsh MTB scene and its relationship with the FC) he compared it to how the EU viewed Poland.

Growing up in the South Wales valleys every community centre, road, park, you name it.. had a "Funded by EU Objective One funding" sign stuck on it with the EU flag. Basically a scheme to invest in the poorer parts of Europe, so you're not far off:

"Q1. What was Objective One?
Objective One was one of three programmes set up to help reduce differences in social and economic conditions within the European Union. (These three funding programmes were the biggest area of European spending after the Common Agricultural Policy.)

Of the three, Objective One was the highest priority designation for European aid and was targeted at areas where prosperity, measured in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per head of population, was 75% or less of the European average."

Just back from a road trip to North Wales. Great riding, amazing scenery. All on one bike.

Day 1: Coed Y Brenin, 60k , great trails, trail centre is really well set up, great food and facilities, probably best I've been to.

Day 2: AM Antur Stiniog, got 10 runs in, super efficient uplift, good facilities, pretty full on but great mornings riding.
PM Back to CyB, 30k and skills area

Day 3: AM Snowdon up & down, amazing morning bike & hike on the way up followed by a great descent. Above the clouds, sunshine, snow...fantastic
PM : Penmachno, did the first loop, about 30k . Really fun riding and different enough to make it worthwhile.

My wife and our dog came out on the train on Friday night and we hiked Snowdon the following day. In terms of contributions to the local economy we're looking at 4 nights in B&Bs , 2 meals out, 2 nights in the pub plus bits and bobs at trail centers etc. The b&b owner in Blanau F said that she got lots of business from mtb riders using Antur Festiniog.

We benefited from great weather but the Mtb facilities were first class and make it easy to get quality riding in without too much fuss and will keep me coming back to Wales again and again. The scenery is stunning and the fact that I can get to South Wales in 2hrs and North Wales in 4 from west London makes it a no brainer. The only downside is that I seem to have developed an addiction to barra brin, if that's what it's called.

Try getting a weekend room (at 70 quid a night) at Afan Lodge between, ooh, May and September. We do a couple of multi night multi centre Welsh road trips a year, and as someone said above I think the number of centres increases business rather than compete against against each other.

I believe a lot of Wales development was EU supported, from funds rejuvenating deprived economic areas.

MTB must be worth more than ramblers and cavers put together. Ramblers buy a small drink, hog the fire and sweep the menu off the table to make room for their sandwich box, cavers come in the pub in huge groups, hogging the fire with one half a beer between them, sitting with their backs to everyone whilst slagging off the pub and the "unfriendly" locals on the Web. (Slaughtered Lamb comparisons, etc)

All I know is bikes are brilliant!

[img] [/img]

There's so much potential in Wales to tap into something like this. And so little hope that anything much will happen. It's the kind of thing the Welsh Assembly should be all over but they're too busy managing Westminster austerity and squabbling about nothing.

You mean build even more trail centers and get even more tourists in?

Ok, but do we really want our economy even more dependent on tourism?

I'm seeing loads more road bikers at the moment. I live between the Bwlch and Rhigos mountains, so a bit of a magnet for road bikers, during a sunny weekend you wont believe the amount of bikes now outside the cafes and up on top by the ice cream vans.

MTB wise, always seems new trails are being built, official and unofficially which can only improve the economy. Places like Cwmdown paved the way for places like BPW and now BMCC which are both doing well. Bike shops seem to be doing well too.

You mean build even more trail centers and get even more tourists in?

Ok, but do we really want our economy even more dependent on tourism?

Not necessarily.

I don't see it as purely an economic thing. I think Wales and its natural resources need selling to Welsh people as well - not just to visitors. As somebody brought up in a Welsh border town, the countryside was just a distant blur on the horizon.

It requires a change of mindset. To start looking at the potential of the country, rather than obsessing about its failings - the too small, too poor, too stupid mentality.

Ok, but do we really want our economy even more dependent on tourism?

It's a problem here on the Isle of Wight too.

I do think that, as much as the Welsh economy is beginning to cash in on biking, there's still much more that could be done. I've never understood why there are so few bike shops in Snowdonia compared to how well used the area is by bikers. I remember chatting to a mechanic working in the Planet Fear in Betws who was perplexed as to why central office had decided to close the shop there. As he put it, if you can't make a bike shop work in Betws-y-coed, where can you make it work? Given the proximity of the Marin and Penmachno trails, as well as the bridleways, etc. I reckon the local economy would support more than just the place in Llanrwst.

Because bike shops are of limited use in Snowdonia?

If I was going somewhere for a weekend I'd make sure my bike worked before I went, I wouldn't spend Saturday waiting for it to be fixed at a LBS in rural Wales, assuming they could fit it in. Consumables, spares and quick fixes maybe, but that won't make enough in august to see you through the quiet months.

Unlike yet another discount waterproofs shop, packed with unsuitably dressed people caught out the the rain.

It'll be interesting to see if Wales gets the same powers as Scotland, if you could relocate your business from say Swindon, further along the M4 to Cardiff, and get better business rates, corporation tax etc.

The comment about tourism above is interesting. Most tourism occurs in the summer and you then get ghost towns in winter.
Welsh trail centres seem to be the place to go if you want to avoid winter gloop so I'm assuming they fare better than other attractions.

The car parks in the summer are PACKED compared with winter. I'm convinced that there are loads of riders who don't go out when it's cold or wet.

opusone - Member
...I've never understood why there are so few bike shops in Snowdonia compared to how well used the area is by bikers.

ok, just thinking out loud here:

There wouldn't be many outdoor shops in B-y-C if they had to survive on the money spent by hardcore climbers, scramblers, padlers, etc. i.e. it's the muggles* that keep the shops going.

(*for want of a better word)

Biking in North Wales is fairly 'serious', there isn't much that's easy, flat, family friendly, whatever. As a direct consequence, there aren't many muggles around looking to buy some shiny, profitable, mtb paraphernalia to make their weekend more enjoyable.

if you want to go for an easy, muggle-friendly walk in North Wales, there's chuffing loads to keep you happy. The same can't be said for muggle-friendly offroad biking.

i'm not sure that visiting geeky enthusiasts like us are all that profitable, we're highly unlikely to turn up for a weekend biking, and head straight to a bike shop for a new pair of tyres...

...I've never understood why there are so few bike shops in Snowdonia compared to how well used the area is by bikers.

I'm local to Afan, lots more people riding than a few years ago. We are considering building a wall. 😀

if you want to go for an easy, muggle-friendly walk in North Wales, there's chuffing loads to keep you happy. The same can't be said for muggle-friendly offroad biking.

Not sure I agree with that. Firstly because I learned to mountain bike in North Wales - main trails on a commuter hybrid fwiw - but also because there are lots of odds and sods about such as the track between capel curig and cwm idwal and the vast amount of forestry bits and bobs.

But also the place is teeming with road bikers these days, and there isn't too much catering for them. If there were, it would most probably also cater for mountain bikers too.

Exactly, odds and sods and bit and bobs. It's all a bit scrappy, and it [i]really[/i] helps to know your way around before you start.

And road biking in north wales? It looks great, but even less enticing for a newbie than the mtb'ing...

Remember, I'm not for one moment suggesting that north wales isn't great for mtb'ing, just that your average punter who'd happily spend hundreds on walking gear before strolling around the paths at the swallow falls, doesn't see the same easy options for an easy cycle-bimble.

Barra brith oysterstrike but let you off as your from London. Good effort doing all that in 3 days. In terms of fun and happiness inducement North wales trails are priceless. In terms of cash no idea. Quieter the better already bursting with climbers and walkers.

As he put it, if you can't make a bike shop work in Betws-y-coed, where can you make it work?

In a city, where there are 100x more commuters than MTBers, and they can't fix punctures, service their bikes or fix their gears.

When I hang around waiting to be served in my LBS, almost everyone who comes in is wanting one of those things for their BSO or entry level bike, which is usually pretty knackered.

just that your average punter who'd happily spend hundreds on walking gear before strolling around the paths at the swallow falls, doesn't see the same easy options for an easy cycle-bimble.

Aye, I'm going to Llangollen over Easter and without spending ages studying Strava heatmaps there's very little information on trails/routes etc.

I was also wondering how a mountain bike version of Boris bikes could work...Carwyn bikes?

There's loads of easy stuff within North Wales, it's just not spoonfed to you.
The Bifefax guidebook gives you lots of options and there's lots on the web to fill in the gaps.

A sense of adventure helps too, lots of semi-cheeky quiet stuff to link the obvious bits up if you ask/poke around.

As to bike shops/gear shops.
I've bought a lot of gear from Joe Brown's over the years, mostly great value discount stuff.
Same price as online but I can try it on and have it right away.

I try and avoid shops in Betwys.

The new bike shop in Llanberis is a welcome addition and very friendly.
I'd buy a bike from them, or 1868 in Llanrwst.

Never had to use West End or Evolution.

Bought an emergency light from the friendly bloke with the little place on the harbour in Conwy once.
🙂

That's another point - if you already have a huge area to turn into a bike destination as discussed in the Whistler thread, you can plan it, publicise it, and waymark it. Outside of trail centres here it's just the right of way network that's been there for years so it's harder to make as obvious.

Would you want to make it THAT obvious?
It'd spoil the adventure.

There's loads of trail centres if you want to follow waymarkers.

Even the most clueless can download a route or follow a guidebook.
Even walkers have managed it for years.
🙂

The most clueless won't even know the trails are there - so they won't know to go online or to a bookshop for routes.

There was once a plan to provide some waymarking of cross-country (not XC) routes from some trail centres in Scotland. The theory was that it would encourage some riders to explore more than just a wee bit of forest and would be a stepping-stone to folk then discovering and riding their own routes. The idea seemed well intentioned but it never really happened, though some recent DMBinS chat has been about trying to make more of the already-signposted LDPs (like the West Highland Way). It would certainly have a benefit of spreading the tourist spend a bit further afield.

How much of a clue do you need to search for 'my destination + MTB routes'?

There's tons of info regarding all sorts of trails on the official website - routes, info re trail centres, family friendly paths etc.

Having said that, the Purple at Glentrool is a cracker, as per Scotroutes post.
You might be right.
🙂

Can't remember much waymarking though, we used the guidebook/map, I think.

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]How much of a clue do you need to search for 'my destination + MTB routes'?Look at the average level of intelligence displayed on this site......

TBF, it's not just about finding a route, it's about making it a bit easier for the inexperienced to follow. (Yes, then you get into the whole cairning issue)

Maybe something like the trails at Sutton Bank, they are natural trails with occasional signage, or the trails from Dales Bike Centre, you buy one of the maps with a recommended loop. You know that the route is ridable (might need to be pretty fit to clean Fremington Edge 😆 ) but you aren't being led by the hand around them. Both similar to the "stepping stones" mentioned by Scotroutes.

We were out riding in the Dales for most of the weekend and saw just four other mountain bikers, somewhere like Gisburn will have been packed out, it seems most want the easy option.

I see it on here a lot - "[i]going to Scotland at the weekend and looking for some trails to ride - don't want to waste time getting lost, doing hike-a-bike etc[/i]" That's a pretty reasonable attitude if you've little experience and trying to fit in as much riding time as you can but it's missing out what makes each place different. To me, I can go to GT and enjoy it but it's not so different to any other trail centre in a forest. I'd judge it to be a wasted opportunity to drive to Wales and just visit a trail centre but I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean 🙂

Yeah, you're probably right.
🙂

It'd need a hell of a lot of properly joined up thinking though.

We've a good few regular natural routes we've linked up over the years and shared with loads of people - they do require a bit of lateral thought and a liberal interpretation of access legislation.
They're always evolving too, which is fun, but the lack of proper, linked up trails does become a bit of a chore after a while.

I think a Scottish type access system would greatly benefit Wales.

I'm not a local, just a regular visitor.
Would love to here what those who live and work there think.

I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean

I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean

Figuring out which lines are likely to be good trails and which are going to be shit pushing is a bit of an art. And a lot of people won't want to have to get involved.

I think a Scottish type access system would greatly benefit Wales.

I'm not a local, just a regular visitor.
Would love to here what those who live and work there think.

I don't think you'll find many opponents on this particular forum!

In a city, where there are 100x more commuters than MTBers, and they can't fix punctures, service their bikes or fix their gears.

Certainly my experience of working in a shop. 🙁

In a city, where there are 100x more commuters than MTBers, and they can't fix punctures, service their bikes or fix their gears.

Maybe offer basic bike maintenance courses?

Of course they may be cash rich/time poor in which case dropping their bike off at a shop to get "fixed" for them to pick up in time for the commute home is something that works [b]for them[/b]. A bit awkward for the bike shop as they get unexpected jobs to fit in to their work schedule (assuming they are busy of course).

I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean

They mean that there are actual trails there rather than endless miles of untracked bog. 🙂

actual trails there rather than endless miles of untracked bog

On the evidence of last nights ride some of those actual trails are through bottomless bog 🙂

Edit: that should have been a 😥

They mean that there are actual trails there rather than endless miles of untracked bog.

Not my experience of riding in parts of Wales. The Elan Valley springs to mind...

There can be a difference between the "official right of way" as marked on maps and actual tracks on the ground - try this one http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=325177&Y=503065&A=Y&Z=120 goodness knows what they were thinking at the time. It doesn't help that when the distinction between footpaths and bridleways came in that the local adjudicators came up with different designations for the same track - this BW http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=391574&Y=469695&A=Y&Z=120 changes to a footpath seemingly in the middle of nowhere (it's actually on a parish boundary).

Cross country rights of way weren't "designed" for bikes so you have to accept that some will be fine, others less so. The ones I've done in the Elan Valley (actually that's most of them except for the couple leading SW out of the valley towards Moel Prysgau) have been perfectly ridable.

It'd need a hell of a lot of properly joined up thinking though.

That's what the Welsh Assembly should be coordinating.

You can see the problem when you follow the Taff trail out of Cardiff. It's all decent until you reach the border with Rhondda Cynon Taff council where there's a series of sketchy road crossings.

To find a safer route would require the two councils working together, agreeing on a plan and sorting out who should pay for what. And that's why it'll never get done.

Interesting reading so far.
[dayjob]
Tourism supports 10% of employment in the Welsh economy, year round. It rises to 15% seasonally in certain areas.
North Wales has the highest provision of caravan and camp sites, and Gwynedd runs Pembrokeshire (South West) close for Self-Catering properties and both are far higher than the other Local Authority areas of Wales.
Tourism is the 5th largest contributor to the Welsh economy, and the contribution continues to rise.
There are no statistics currently for MTB use drawn out from overall cycling use as reason for trips, in the same way there isn't for road rides, or triathlons.
The key reason people visit Wales is for the scenery. Being active in the scenery is quite near the top, but as a percentage I believe cycling was around 8% of the reasoning a bit more than fishing and golf. Mostly people visit for walking, or beaches.
The majority of visits are day or short breaks and this has been on the rise since 2012.
I can find out information around returns on specific projects such as the Cognation work in the South, and the North Wales trails work if needed but it's a couple of years out of date now.
Wales is still heavily funded by the EU, and we've just secured £85mn for Tourism.
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Anecdotally yes there are more cyclists either road or MTB or CX knocking around. Been a slow increase for the last 3-4 years.

New promo funded by Welsh Gov: