[Closed] How much more, is too much more. LBS?

Is riding tomorrow worth £30

Is riding tomorrow worth £30

'you can wait' is only viable if you have another working bike for tomorrow, surely?

Or alternatively, put the old shonky mech on for a few days.

In your shoes, I would stump up the extra at the lbs. My lbs are worth more to me than list prices. They have supported our school fair, done lots of good value repairs and given lots of sound advice.

My most local LBS (of sorts) is Bird Cycleworks. I bought (by coincidence) an XT 10 speed mech this morning - £40, and they gave me a free length of chain as I needed a few spare links.

Won't help your situation, but I'd be happy to spend a few extra quid to support local folks, not some faceless Ferrari driving multinational owner. Perhaps not an extra £33 though...

30% over an online price is fine with me.
If it was much more than that, then I think I'd wait a few days for a delivery.

Bit of a tangent, but I was thinking what if a company like Chain Reaction could also trade supply, i.e. a LBS gets parts from CRC at trade prices.

I see your point OP.

I think I would put the dodgy mech on and ride the weekend with a cheaper one on order.

I dont really have a lbs any-more as one was a bit useless over a RS fork a few years ago, the others have closed.... so I mainly go online.

I am all for supporting lbs by the way just not the one near me that I simply don't trust.

Anyway, whatever happens, hope you get out this weekend, its going to be great!! 😀

"Chain Reaction could also trade supply, i.e. a LBS gets parts from CRC at trade prices."
Apart from OE/own brand/self imported stuff crc pay the same trade as an LBS.They just work on a much lower margin (economies of scale=lower overheads).

I know bike shop owners who would source from CRC ribble and merlin as it was cheaper than their trade accounts

As long as they're not charging more than RRP then as a last minute purchase I'd be happy paying 20-30% more than online.

The obvious thing is to have enough bikes available that you can grab an alternative for most riding situations. Oh and to keep on top of maintenance on all of them 😀

I'd go lbs if I needed it asap. Plus mine is run by an ostensibly dour Northener (we're in Hampshire) who has dealt with my wife on more occasions than with me, giving her advice, discounts and free stuff. Doesn't stick a vast amount but if he's got it I'll buy from him. It's probably the bike version of earnest middle class people enthusing over keeping the local boulangerie open but sometimes they might just be on to something.

Apart from OE/own brand/self imported stuff crc pay the same trade as an LBS

I doubt one party buying 5 units at a time would pay the same unit price as another party buying 100 units at a time.

Looks like it's a road ride for me this weekend. Found same mech for £39, now that is considerably cheaper than LBS and although I am itching for a spring MTB ride I'll just have to wait a few days.

I also struggle with this, recently was advised to go online by lbs when i was looking for a SRAM rear axle as they clearly couldnt be arsed.

I bought brake pads at 18 each because i couldn't wait for uberbikes order 4 for £17, i know they are not the same as SRAM pads but even so it hurt.

Last Sunday my father-in-law was telling me how he paid more for a tyre (from our LBS) for his bike than he did for his car. £37 for a Schwalbe Marathon Plus.

A quick Google shows Wiggle selling it for £22.99

£45 for a 10spd xt rear mech is less than the trade price from Madison. Doesn't make things easy for the lbs.

Can I also draw people's attention to the crazy prices charged by local beer shops? £4 for a pint when I can buy beer at Tesco for a fraction of the price? Who needs local beer shops when you can buy from the big retailers and pour it yourself?

£45 for a 10spd xt rear mech is less than the trade price from Madison. Doesn't make things easy for the lbs

So how is the shop selling it at 39 quid making any money? Serious question.

It'll be OEM if its from Chain Reaction etc. No box or words with it, intended to be sold as part of a groupset or to a bike builder who doesn't need packaging.

I think in OP's situation, I would go ghetto singlespeed this weekend and order two rear mechs online, one to get fitted asap and another for the spares box.

MY LBS did me a good deal last weekend, sourced a Hope Inegral headset and then used it to finally get my carbon On One fatty fork fitted for £85 (rrp of headset, they made fitting effectively free).
Online, the headset best price I saw was £67 and they normally charge £25 to fit a fork.

Multiple bikes. Removes this discussion completely for me.

If i was stuck though and had riding planned, 30% seems reasonable.

It does raise the question why LBS shops don't sell OEM as well. If someone takes their bike in who has no idea about maintenance and gets the LBS to replace the rear mech, then as you would expect the shop charges them RRP for the item. If a someone calls for a price for supply only then they sell you an OEM one.

I might start a business buying OEM Shimano in huge quantities and selling them to LBS around the UK. There must be hundreds of shops in the same position who are just unable to compete with online OEM prices.

I thought madison allowed shops with an account to price match CRC etc?

I thought madison allowed shops with an account to price match CRC etc?

And not make any money. Hardly a sustainable business model for a shop.

My lbs price matches Shimano.

Apart from OE/own brand/self imported stuff crc pay the same trade as an LBS

As above, they buy in huge quantities, so they pay less.

It is no level playing field.

I went to buy a mech from my LBS they didnt have one in stock quoted £89.99 XT 11 speed , more dissapointed they had no stock, bike is still broken snapped mech, luckily N+1 is working 😀 still no mech looked online CRC wiggle all £59 Tweeks £64 just CBA to buy one.

It does raise the question why LBS shops don't sell OEM as well. If someone takes their bike in who has no idea about maintenance and gets the LBS to replace the rear mech, then as you would expect the shop charges them RRP for the item. If a someone calls for a price for supply only then they sell you an OEM one.

I might start a business buying OEM Shimano in huge quantities and selling them to LBS around the UK. There must be hundreds of shops in the same position who are just unable to compete with online OEM prices.

Those business do exist but they are not popular with Shimano or Madison. Entire fake model lines exist in the far east just to buy up OEM for the grey market or aftermarket products in more competitively priced markets. We get calls all the time asking if we have any 'spare' stock lying about we'd like to sell an online box shifter. There are grey market importers in the UK sourcing parts from around the world than can undercut Madison by a fair amount, but if you use them you risk losing your normal account*, so what are you going to do? Also consider that even the grey market prices are only marked up by 10% often by the big online boys, so you'd need to sell alot to make it worthwhile. You could sell 6 mechs at £5 margin or 1 mech at £30 margin and not risk your account as an LBS. What would you do?

* unless of course you're Chiggle, in which case that isn't going to happen any time soon.

I wouldn't even consider "is it cheaper elsewhere if I needed it.

£73 for a 10 speed mech is a lot though.

Is £73 for the mech an issue or not?

What would be wrong with a deore if they had one if cost is an issue? Functionally the same.

My local Specialized shop price-matched Chain Reaction`s price for my rear cassette this week.I did have a fair bit of additional work done at the same time but it was still a nice touch

My LBS doesn't support me as they are quite incompetent so I don't support them. Shops will have to compete on service if they can't compete on price. My LBS can't do either.

Just checked, I could sell you a grey market M8000 for £59 and walk away with the princely sum of £12 profit (24% margin) after VAT. Which when you think about it isn't that bad all things considered. I'm not going to do that, but I could - so could any LBS if that was the way they wanted to go, and could persuade a grey market imported to take them on as a customer. But like I say, would you risk it?

24% margin won't sustain a shop

Bicycle drivetrains made out of cheese are just part of the business model like cambelts on cars or ink in printers. Whether you buy the bits from a person in a shop or online makes little difference.
Personally having a dozen bikes and racking up mileage I use online and will generally get a cassette and chain for £20/30 and fit it myself.

The shops that overcharge may get my custom when theres no other option but wont when I have a choice so I prefer the more honest approach one or two take of telling me to buy something online if they dont have it in stock and its not urgent.

Big on line dealers will be the death of even good LBS, so many times I've seen people come in pick the brains of staff, ( even try the shoes on then buy on line and have the cheek to then as the LBS the custom mould them as they are a shimano dealer for free)

Madison don't help, they can't won't match the on line dealers, so it can be cheaper quicker to order a part from a big online store and get it delivered for the LBS.

I think you need to take into account that the advice, help, last min tech help isn't actually free for the LBS to provide. It's really tough when the prices are so different I agree, but it's a huge detriment to the local shop scene.

Good service is an issue for any shop if it's crappy service I won't shop there, regaurdless of what the shop sells.

Everyone I speak to in the industry is reporting a very slow start this year (we're bubbling along nicely but it helps we just launched a new model I think - that always boosts sales in the run up - not sure where we'd be without the 145 launched). I think LBSes may soon be the new pubs - doesn't feel that promising for the traditional bike shop model right now. Stuff like plus and e-bikes isn't helping either as its diluting the proposition and making for less certain buyers - there's definitely not enough N+1 on these new niches going on to sustain the fall off on the more established lines. Expect to see some serious back-pedalling by some manufacturers next year on the range and diversity of their bikes I think. This year's 'next big thing' feels a bit like next years 'what now?'.

I think bike shops play on the 'LBS' thing too much.

Show me one other retail segment that this local use it or loose threat has worked for?

I would suggest some do's and dont's.

Do: Be polite and professional, train your staff, organise your retail space, manage stock well, only keep what sells, clearly price things and be transparent about servicing costs.

Dont: Threaten me to buy from you, be rude, follow me around your shop, stock slow lines, rip me off, be patronising, let staff with poor knowledge talk to customers. have a gruby shop.

Advice given in good faith and and at least one of the shops near me does all the good stuff above and I'm happy to give them money.

Wilburt +1

I've been to pretty much every West Yorks bike shop multiple times and the successful ones don't have the negatives you have listed. The sad thing is that nearly all those negatives can be fixed for free.

I've seen big shops such as All Terrain grow bigger as they are neat and tidy, everything priced, staff are nice and honest with you. Same can be found with smaller shops too, there's a couple I can think of who maybe can't stock as much but are helpful, have well presented shops and will admit when they can't help you. In those sorts of shops you'll often be happy paying more or maybe buying something different than what you came in for.

I've been in shops (multiple ones!) where the owner or assistant has been openly rude to me, rubbished my bike and told me lies about various things. I often stand around and listen in on how they speak to other customers (especially youngsters and mums and dads who are real novices) and have been close to interrupting when I've been shocked at how they have been advised or spoken to. Never done it yet.

24% gross margin is plenty is you can get 100% on fitting that part...or sell shorts at good margin - it's about the footfall and creating a rapport, add value - if you're grumpy about CRC like most LBS are then the customer will stick to CRC, and I don't blame him.

Adapt or die. Take your pick.

wilburt - Member

The shops that overcharge

How are they overcharging? Does it occur to you they have more overheads etc? Most shop staff are on min wage plus a bit, owners maybe on 30K if they are good.

nickfrog - Member
24% gross margin is plenty is you can get 100% on fitting that part

...or sell shorts at good margin

its very difficult to see how the LBS survives- my best guess is by diversifying and concentrating on service/repairs??

One thing is for sure if we dont use them then they will not be there.

Merlin are my nearest "LBS" anyway so I dont have to have this dilemma-

The good bike shops near me are doing well and the owners are making good money. The bad ones are going bust.
Thats how it should be, I'm not paying extra for something just so they can be crap at their job. 'local' or not.