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I know it's a "How long is a piece of string?" question and a single space in London would cost more than a whole car park in other parts of the country, but let's say a typical supermarket car park, how much does each space cost to build and maintain?
I've always thought that one of the biggest obstacles to increased cycling is the lack of safe parking.
Sustrans can build all the dedicated cycle tracks they want, but if your bike's not going to be there when you come out of work, the supermarket, cinema or whatever, no one's going to use them.
[url= http://www.asgardsss.co.uk/bike-cycle-storage/bike-storage-x1 ]Asgard boxes[/url] start at around £370.
I'm sure it could be done cheaper by buying in bulk or building multiple boxes with shared dividing walls, so how would the cost of providing free [i]secure[/i] cycle parking compare with the cost of providing free car parking as many shops and work places do now?
Could bike parks ever be operated as a commercial venture the way car parks are now?
Lots of variables I know, but with more bikes per square metre, less wasted access space between parking spaces and cheaper foot traffic quality surfacing, could it be made to pay?
Its not a daft idea.
What do the Dutch or Danes do? They've probably already thought of the answer
everyone has a cheap bike, there's no point stealing one.
I like the idea.
I for one would be happy to pay for secure cycle storage.
You could rent out the individual units. It would ensure the user a permanent location that is safe and accessible at their convenience. As you say, they take up a small area. You could even stack them. There must be a market for this.
Its not a daft idea.
Er..thank you, I think. 😕
Most car parks have got a few odd corners of wasted space.
I wonder how to go about getting the owners to fill them with Asgard boxes and a camera pointing at them?
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What do the dutch or danes do?...[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29601069 ]Copenhagen's piles of bicycles[/url] apparently a bit of an issue.. though considering the mess they'd be in if they did still use cars as their main transport, you'd think they could find a "fix".
Liking this from sweden:
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Quick rudimentary maths:
20 Bikes
50p/day
Income
10 day
50 Week
200 Month
2400 Yr
Cost
2500 Building
6500 Land
9000 Total
Pay back
3.75 yr payback
2400 income after yr 4
-400 maintenance
2000 total
I suspect quite strongly that most mtbers would be far too tight fisted to pay for the safe storage. There are a few bike lockers at Macc station that seem well used however. No idea what the cost is. If Tesco were to do similar I would imagine all kinds of liability issues arise (from someone who had their car dinged there recently!).
ska - you're forgetting insurance, camera systems, keys, labour etc etc.
50p a day! Why would anyone bother to build something for people that have the expectation that 50p a day will secure their pride and joy!
Actually, Manchester has some kind of bike hub. I've seen signs for it hinting that it has storage and showers etc. Anyone used it?
Disclaimer in the contract, etc.
You could use existing cameras in a car park.
Even upping the cost to £1/day would see it get used. Clean, dry bike with not dings from inconsiderate users and you could chuck some kit in there too.
I know many commuters who would use this sort of service.
It's not for all locations. It would work a treat at large offices or dense areas, such as Canary Wharf.
a lot of merseyrail stations have secure bike sheds with card access, cctv and open to view with mesh sides.
So it can be done.
Mesh cages could be built at most supermarkets with you using your oown lock or pay to park wia a key like left luggage lockers used to have.
and inside supermarkets with cafes have secure lockers for their trolleys when youre having a meal
Swindon has a town centre bike park (actually, it has 2 now)that has a secure card entry system which costs £10 for life. They even have a workstand and a set of park tools and a pump in there should anyone need them. It's not perfect, although I've never met anyone who's had their bike nicked out of there I've heard a few stories of it happening, it's certainly a step in the right direction though.
I've often wondered how financially viable it would be to rent a shop unit in the town centre to provide secure bike parking and showers etc. It probably costs upwards of £15 a day to park a car in town, would the cycling population be prepared to pay £5 for such a facility I wonder?
As per @zippy's post, Guardian today has piece on how chaotic Copenhagen is. Having been there myself I can vouch for that it's chaos with bikes everywhere all over the pavement. They are a victim of their own success in encouraging cycling really.
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/new-gym-in-soho-offers-all-in-one-solution-for-cyclists/
this gym has parking for clients. my understanding is quite a few use it as all day parking.
some local stations have these here in Melbourne, Aus
[url= https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/general/programs/370/ ]Parkiteer secure bike cages[/url]
What do the Dutch or Danes do? They've probably already thought of the answer
everyone has a cheap bike, there's no point stealing one.
This I think, there was a comment somewhere that the Dutch view bikes like we do umbrellas, as comunity chattels, you don't nececeraly spend time rummageing through the pile at the door for your own, you just grab one.
There's a bike hub in Middlesbrough too, sounds like a good idea, unfortunately my office was on a comerical estate outo of the town. Great if you work in town though, and saves every business form having to have showers, lockers, bike storage etc.
I think the trick though is probably just to not commute on nice bikes. I like my current commuter with it's hand-me-down 1x10 XTR, hope, Thompson, Easton etc, but if I was building of buying a commuter from scratch then nice as a rolhoff equipped CX bikes dripping in bling the marketing man tells us we need otherwise it'll die in the first week, you don't really need it?
When I was in Amsterdam I saw thousands of bikes parked up. They were all, without exception, old shitters! I literally did not see one nice (as in bling, or even modern) bike. I"m sure they do get bikes stolen, but because there are so many the likelihood of one in particular being targeted is so much lower than over here - plus they are worth so little so easy to replace.What do the Dutch or Danes do? They've probably already thought of the answer
Free, secure bike parking is an awesome idea. There are already a few train stations round here that do it, but there are very few bike lockers and presumably massive waiting lists!
To be fair though I'd be happy just with more proper cycle parking in very visible places, e.g. right outside the shop door, etc so staff/security would be able to see anyone messing with the bikes. That plus using a cheap bike/decent lock would be enough security for me (if I wasn't leaving for bike for very long. Certainly for overnight or whatever I'd be wanting a secure locker).
I've also thought for years it must be a big stumbling block for many who might otherwise commute.
Hopefully councils will cotton on and get involved in providing subsidised facilities themselves (or with commercial partners).
I expect most commuters/city visitors would be willing to pay a touch more than £1 for secure storage. You'd easy get £5/day in London, £3 or £4 in other cities?
This I think, there was a comment somewhere that the Dutch view bikes like we do umbrellas, as comunity chattels
Make sure you hide your umbrella if Spoony comes round your house!
Some places already have relatively secure bike parking.
Park Street Car Park in Cambridge has a specific cycle area, I think, with plenty of CCTV and a security guard manning the car park (not sure if that would make much of a difference).
Also looks like they have bike lockers you can hire for a small-ish fee, which should give your bike more protection and at least keeps it away from prying eyes...
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/resources/cycleparking/parkstreet/
To be fair though I'd be happy just with more proper cycle parking in very visible places, e.g. right outside the shop door, etc so staff/security would be able to see anyone messing with the bikes. That plus using a cheap bike/decent lock would be enough security for me (if I wasn't leaving for bike for very long. Certainly for overnight or whatever I'd be wanting a secure locker).
This is the situation where I am in Sweden (most of the centre of town looks like Zippy's photo of somewhere in Denmark). Practically every building has a bike rack, or several, outside the entrance. The bigger the building (stations, public buildings, IKEA, and such) the more chance it will be a covered or even indoor cycle parking. None of it is remotely secure though. Most apartment building have a locked bike room though. It's where I keep mine, but at work it just sits outside all day with several hundred others.
As usual, the Japanese have nailed it.
I expect most commuters/city visitors would be willing to pay a touch more than £1 for secure storage. You'd easy get £5/day in London, £3 or £4 in other cities?
The thing is the alternative (a lampost or sheffield stand) is free.
And unlike car drivers who expect the absolute convenience of a multi storey car park over the shop/office, bike riders already put in some effort, so won't be put off by a 5 minute walk to a cheaper parking space. My missus thinks I'm wierd for parking 2 streets over from the hospital when I go in for appointments instead of using it's pay&display multistroey. I think it's wierd that people chose to pay it rather than walk 5 minutes.
Make sure you hide your umbrella if Spoony comes round your house!
I want a T-shirt "lock up your daughters and umbrellas"
It does seem strange that you can leave 1-100 grands worth of car on the street/open car park and mostly it'll be fine, leave a £200 bike and you need to put it inside a reinforced cage. Society is a bit messed up.
Nice idea, tho TBH I'd be happy if the supermarkets just actually gave me something to lock my bike [b]to[/b], usually there's only wheel bender loops so I end up locking it to sign posts or trolley enclosures.
Big bike sheds in manchester and bolton train station have had "opening soon" signs on for a long time now (think "early 2014" was the official "date") no idea how it'll be run and that's the biggest problem, you lock your car and leave it, bike storage is just a massive headache by comparison*, regular stuff will be ok, daily commute, work storage etc but nipping to the shops....?
*despite being a shitload cheaper per unit
Many years ago when I was working in a central London bike shop, I suggested it to them - set up a unit with showers, lockers, secure storage and charge a "parking fee". They never went for it...
Bike shop, cafe, secure storage, showers, lockers, workshop. Somewhere central in a large town. The Boris Bike market may well have taken some of the potential customers out of such a scheme in London but I'd still be interested to see that kind of idea in practice. Maybe something to pitch at Alan Sugar for a place on The Apprentice. 😉
But your car typically now has alarms, immobilisers, registration plates and very few exposed parts so they're pretty darn hard to steal now, due in part as a response to how easy they were to take a while back. And despite all that they do still get stolen, parts get removed and they get damaged/vandalised. There'd a lot to be said for a cage.
I think On Your Bike at London Bridge had a commercial bicycle park with showers for a while.
http://www.tiredoflondontiredoflife.com/2011/01/park-your-bike-at-london-bridge-cycle.html
Personally, i'd just get a cheapo bike and a decent lock.
The best thing about using a bike for transport is its door-to-door convenience in cities, and you lose that if it can only be locked in a secure storage facility.
z1ppy's picture is of Copenhagen central station, photographed from a strange angle to give the impression that it's worse than it actually is. There ARE piles of bikes in some places, but the biggest problem is remembering where you put your bike.
The one connected to Mud Dock in Bristol is £2/day to lock up and a locker....
http://www.mud-dock.co.uk/bikeshed/index.html
By way of comparison, I rent a 'garage' from Bristol City Council (I lease the concrete pad from them but own the garage on top - they 'maintain' the site.... so it is effectively renting a parking a space) for ~£20/month. Renting someones driveway to park on, certainly around North Bristol is ~£5 a day. So the BikeShed price doesn't look too bad, esp in the centre of town, when you can park, have a locker and a shower for £5/day
There used to be bikepark in Covent Garden, but that's gone now.
I just use a Brompton and take it in anywhere I'm going to.
Ah, love the Mud Dock.
They've got it all there!
This I think, there was a comment somewhere that the Dutch view bikes like we do umbrellas, as comunity chattels, you don't nececeraly spend time rummageing through the pile at the door for your own, you just grab one.
But it is rubbish, having lived there twice, you buy a cheap bike and a good lock and just accept it might get stolen. You don't just pick up any bike. Bike parking wasn't that organized in the early 2000s when I last lived there other than at transport hubs.
leeds has cyclepoint outside the station, multi level bike parking at £1 a day. Its inside an evans shop so there is always someone to guard your pride and joy too.
[url= http://www.cyclepoint.org/secure_parking.html/ ]
http://www.cyclepoint.org/secure_parking.html
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[url= http://blog.evanscycles.com/commuter_urban/leeds-cyclepoint-a-bit-of-amsterdam-in-yorkshire/ ]http://blog.evanscycles.com/commuter_urban/leeds-cyclepoint-a-bit-of-amsterdam-in-yorkshire/[/url]
Like the idea and if I did not have secure parking at work then I would use. Think season tickets are even cheaper than £1 a day
Theres a bike themed cafe in St Helier, Jersey that has secure storage, drying facilities etc. I've not used the bike facilities but they looked very good and the cake was nice. There also used to be a place in Leicester city centre around 15 years ago that was excellent, all indoor, gave your bike to the fella on the counter he gave you a ticket and hung the bike away somewhere safe. operated like a cloakroom for bikes.