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I know it only needs to be the main triangle to count as a 853 frameset, but which have more?
Pipedream - rear end 4130
Soul - rear end 4130
Reynolds told me I could spec a 653 seat tube with 853 top and downtubes and still get an 853 sticker.
653 seat tubes are better for production as they are easier to ream to size.
They're not as strong, but certainly strong enough - 853 is overkill on the seat tube.
Very few have anything other than the 3 main tubes, as there's really not much point. There's a good explanation as to why on the Cotic site.
Was it not originally the case that 853 stays did not exist...and perhaps still is that it's not a good place to use the material?
yup, no 853 stays (or not as far as I know)
653 seems to be croping up more and more, either [s]manufacturers[/s] designers are more open about admiting to using it over 853, they'r cutting costs, or some other reason. Hasn't the soul now got bits of 653 in it to pass CEN? I'm going to hazzard a guess and say that last reason is because it had to be thicker(stiffer) and no more strength was needed so 653 was chosen. Cy will be allong in a moment to answer that Q?
My custom Curtis is ALL 853 😛
Candodavid - Member
My custom Curtis is ALL 853
Are you sure? Inc headtube?
you can get 853 stays. a friends condor racer is all 853 it has a 'butted frame and stays' decal on it. it's also a few years old (1in head tube)
I thought 853 is too stiff for the rear (harsh)
Cro-mo steel is all the same stiffness is it not?
And CEN relates to strength rather than stiffness?
stiffness shouldn't be different between steel alloys if the profiles stay the same.
My understanding of the issue is that 853 stays are available but they're the same profile as the 4130s so not lighter. 853 has a better yield strength so could in theory be used to make lighter stays, although these then maybe more flexy as the profiles are smaller/thinner. Thus you can get a "full 853 frame" (not sure on HT) but to what end. The rear end will bemore expensive and stronger than a 4130 one but the same weight and stiffness, which is why Cotic say they didn't bother for the moment.
My Evil Sov is 853 Main T and 725 stays, if the paperwork is right
As regards headtubes, the new Soul has a 631 headtube because there's no point it being thinner 853 as it would be vulnerable to ovalising around the ends under impact loads. The old Soul had a Chromoly headtube.
My lemond had 853 stays, it was also labeled 853 pro team. It was light and flexed like an articulated lorry
iirc Just attaching a Reynold 853 sticker to a seat tube will make it impervious to fatigue or rust 😉
Do the non-853 tubes in '853' frames still have added pixie dust to make them ride much better?
No, but they will have been blessed!
i gots a sticker - what more do i need
Most 853 frames labeled as such have the three main tubes. As Kelvin said, we use 631 on the head tube to get the air hardening we need without paying for 853 which would be no lighter. Same argument for the back end - 853 is expensive and not made in thinner sections than perfectly strong cromo, so why bother? If Reynolds made chainstays and seatstays in 10% bigger section and 20% thinner wall out of 853, then you'd be vaguely interested, but it'd still be a lot more money for not much gain.
Wow - Brant and Cy answering one of my questions.
I do feel blessed.
My Evil Sov is 853 Main T and 725 stays, if the paperwork is right
what is the head tube made out of?
My old mtrax is Ti top and down tubes, is that classed as a ti frameset then?
(It is also glued together, which takes the shine off the whole thing lol)