[Closed] How many of us use internal gear hubs for MTBing?

Gave up when 1x showed up.

Proper steps, lighter, wider range and equally efficient in every gear.

Used to run two alfine 8s

I do. I've done about 10000 miles on my Rohloff mtb since I built it in 2010.

I wouldn't go back to standard derailleur gears for my main bike now.

I can think of one mate with a Rohloff on one of his bikes. And that’s it, out of 50+ riders in my wider riding circle! Plenty who have a singlespeed as one of their bikes though.

I very much like the idea, it's always been the cost that's put me off in the past though. I suppose if they were cheaper they'd be more popular, but they need to get more popular to be cheaper!

I was quite keen on a Rohloff for a winter bike but my mate with one said he didn’t like all that extra weight at the back of a hardtail.

I used to have an Alfine on my fatbike. Ultimately, there was no real benefit. Derailleurs and cassettes actually work really well and are remarkably efficient. No one I ride with has an IGH.

Sometimes... but not exclusively

had a rohloff for 4 years and got rid, never to be seen again. felt inefficient (even after 4 years of wearing in), and the weight at the back of the bike made it handle like a dog. it's very much a no from me...

No way, Pinion gearboxes for me

What RB said. Had an IGH mounted into a frame as a rudimentary gearbox, which had some benefits, but not that Id want another

Have a rohloff - consigned to my winter bike as it was to put it bluntly it was shit. It's only saving grace is that if your a hack who doesn't look after their gear it's super tollerant at the expense of being pleasurable to ride.

Had an Alfine on a commuter. It felt like pedaling through treacle even after the oil bath service mod. -it did improve but not enough. -commutwr runs very cheap and durable claris.

Our cargo bike has a sturmey archer 3 speed with an 9 speed cassettes on it. Full 27 speed range with a 1* frontend. It proves well that hub gears can be almost drag free across their range....how ever that is at the expense of sealing

They seem like a nice theory, but until I see one in real life, I won't believe they really exist.

I see one in real life, I won’t believe they really exist.

My lesser-spotted Alfine in the wild today 😉

Had an Alfine on a commuter. It felt like pedaling through treacle

See, people say this, but I really don't get that at all.
To me it hi honestly feels no worse than a normal geared set-up. A bit less instant than SS sure, but not massively draggy.

I dip the internals of mine in auto-transmission fluid once a year.

Feel? My commutes were consistantly slower on my hub geared bike over a similarly speced derraileured bike, coincidentally my heart rate was also higher for a given speed despite a pretty stable RHR

Something was required extra effort. It might not have been much but it was real and noticeable.

So that’s 1/5, but it’s probably a higher ratio than the normal MTB population. Or is it?

The fact that there's two of you in the same group is a massive coincidence. I've known only 2 people who've even tried them.

Well feel is all I have to go on. I've ridden my Trailstar with an Alfine almost exclusively this summer, and have clocked 20+ KOMs on it. Some new ones and some that I've beaten myself on. So it's obviously not holding me back too much.

Anyway this wasn't meant to be a thread to moan about IGHs (though this is STW, so what did I expect 😉 ).
Mainly I was interested in how many people use them offroad.

The fact that there’s two of you in the same group is a massive coincidence. I’ve known only 2 people who’ve even tried them.

I have also ridden with Amedias ^ on occasion, and another rider I go out with regularly used to ride one. Though I don't think he does anymore. So it's more than 2 really!

I ran Rohloff on hardtail and sus-bikes for quite a few years, then a Pinion gearbox. Have a belt drive commuter with an Alfine 8 and a 6 speed Brompton (3 speed wide range hub).

1x killed it for me off road - difference in weight increased, fewer parts to replace to completely refresh the drivetrain and ended chain suck.

The weight balance of a Rohloff was the issue. You could adapt to it but it did make the bike feel sluggish. Pinion solved that - weight balance was better than 1x, and rear suspension worked really well with a super light back end. BUT increase in weight was even more than Rohloff.

On a commute bike hubs make loads of sense. I recommend them to anyone - efficiency isn't a big issue there (not that I believe it's materially different) and the low maintenance (and with belt cleanliness) makes a big difference on a daily use bike.

Off road I don't miss them until winter arrives and everything's grinding. Or when the mech takes a hit on a rock and you know will never shift quite perfectly again but isn't bad enough to replace. So, yes, sometimes I'd really like another Pinion bike.

What really does surprise me is that no-one has yet put out an e-bike drive with integrated gearbox. It was supposed to be on Pinions roadmap when they launched but still haven't seen it. With an e-bike the extra weight becomes irrelevant, you could easily integrate electric shifting to deal with the (many) people who seem to have such an issue with grip shift (never bothered me).

E-bikes seem to eat drivetrains so there would be a real tangible benefit.

I've got a rohloff on my rigid 29er.... Does a bit of everything. Love it's clean look and simplicity... Does occasionally feel draggy but that's only when in the lower 7 gears where the noise makes you notice it more. Off road this is less noticeable as tyre noise etc hide it a bit, you then don't think it's as draggy 😂

Wouldn't have it on a trail bike though, suspension or hard tail. Weight distribution and grip shift would put me off but then I haven't tried it and probably won't as I can't be arsed!

I don't know anyone else who uses a geared hub off road like I do,

I'd like to try a pinion full suspension bike though just to see

I used an 8 speed Alfine (with Zerode shifter)for several years and really liked it except for the obvious weight penalty, compared to a singlespeed and the “soft” engagement, probably because I do quite a lot of ratcheting in tight, nadgery stuff.
I might give it another chance this winter though.

Bought a cheap s/h Alfine 8 hybrid because I was curious about them. It hasn’t really won me over but I wonder if it’s in need of some maintenance.

I don’t ride with anyone who uses them on a MTB.

I wonder if it’s in need of some maintenance.

It's incredibly easy to drop out the internals and do a clean and soak in ATF fluid.

Makes a real difference to smoothness of changes, how draggy it feels, and general noise.

Alfine service instructions

“What really does surprise me is that no-one has yet put out an e-bike drive with integrated gearbox.”

It doesn’t surprise me because it’s a packaging nightmare, especially now everyone wants to fit a bottle in their frame, but YES YES YES, I WANT ONE!

Have an early Alfine that has been on and off mtbs. Currently been on my commuter for the last 2 years. It does seem to have got a bit less draggy on climbs. Still don't like the mushy take-up but othewise it does the job.

Have a 29er wheel in the attic with disc brake 3 speed Sturmey. Quite liked it for mtb (felt fairly efficient) but complete lack of sealing and tricky chain line make it a bit impractical. Keep meaning to try it for clog free CX racing sometime (brazed some specific cable stops for it when I made the frame).

But like most people here, find 1x offers more for geared mtb.

One on a Speedball and one on a Pugsley for me - both Alfine 8.

Lots of clay here in winter. On an 18 mile, slightly hilly, commute the Speedball is almost as quick as my geared cross bike.

I used my Rohloff on my main MTB for a few years before moving on to 1X again. It's the slow freehub engagement which eventually got too annoying for me. I've now gone to the other extreme with Onyx clutch hubs...

It now lives on my 'gravel' bike, which is a Singular swift. This gets used on tamer terrain and long days out. The Rohloff is great for this. I really like the easy maintenance and robustness. Claggy mud and slushy ice is no problem.
I'd disagree with the draggy comments, but it seems Rohloffs split opinion in this regard and always have done.
It is slightly noisy in gears 1 - 3, a bit noisier in 4 - 7 and perfectly quiet an smooth in gears 8 - 11, much moreso than a derailleur. Cruising in gear 11 especially is like a smooth SS hub.
I like it, but appreciate it's certainly not perfect.

I had an Alfine 11 a few years back. It was rubbish.

Rohloff on the tandem because it was the only hub that wouldn't break. I have run an alfine. the alfine is dfraggy for sure in some gears, the rohloff less so

How many miles did you do on the rohloff Trailrat? Our is still running in at 10 000 plus miles - gets smoother and less draggy every year

While I do find the rohloff a bit draggy I think it feels and sounds much more than it actually is

2008 hub , Heaps on a thorn raven enduro which did commuting and training duties .... about 2 years on my td-1 till I fitted my xtr and realised lap on lap it was much faster as a derraileur geared bike and now 5 years on my winter/fat bike where the drag is masked by the tires and weight

I still use an Alfine 8. A couple of riding buddies also have them although not on their mtb's, have ridden with two or three with Rohloffs and a friend also has a 3 speed Sturmey.

I like the Alfine, it only ever feels draggy when its in 1st gear and the riding is tough i.e. thick mud or a sandy climb. In those situation it feels like the hub gets draggy but I also know it might just be because I can feel the gear mechanism through the pedals, so try to ignore it 🙂

Fairysnuff Trailrat.

simons_nicolaiuk

1x killed it for me off road – difference in weight increased, fewer parts to replace to completely refresh the drivetrain and ended chain suck.

How did Single chainrings kill off chainsuck out of interest or are you referring to the use of clutch mechs with the 1 X system?
I'm still on 3 X 9 btw so just interested !

It doesn’t surprise me because it’s a packaging nightmare, especially now everyone wants to fit a bottle in their frame,

Only an issue for MTB though which isn't the main market for e-bikes

I don't know anyone with one; nor have ever seen one outside a shop...

I ran my ebike conversion with an alfine. Worked just fine.

I think the 1X argument works in relatively normal conditions where the mucky stuff mainly stays on the floor. Around here with it's special mixture of clay and loam winter riding can reduce the drivetrain to a brown blob - I've ridden to the point where the rear cassette was simply not visible within the gloop. In those conditions a IGH makes total sense as the gear changes continue to work and the efficiency remains about the same.

I've mostly stopped bothering riding off road if it's going to be like that though and the winter hardtail with the 8spd alfine has been broken down and will be reborn some time soon as a Rohloff clad word tour bike. Just as soon as I hit the frame with a brazing torch and give it a lick of paint.

Had a rohloff on a MTB for a few years a while ago but it was draggy and not maintainance free . It had to go back to Germany twice to have the bearings replaced , which was done foc both times .my bike also got a lot of rear wheel punctures which I attributed to the extra weight of the rear wheel .

Rohloff on my drop-bar rigid MTB.

Been using it for ~3 years, with belt drive. The zero-maintenance aspect is great, and I like the shifting (Co-Motion), and feeling invincible.

In the summer, especially, I do wonder about how the bike would feel with some added lightness and think about converting to conventional gears. But I'll probably leave it there now.

I'm the only person I know with this type of gearing, and I've only ever seen about one other bike with a Rohloff hub out in the wild.

my bike also got a lot of rear wheel punctures which I attributed to the extra weight of the rear wheel .

... I am not sure about the physics of that ... ?

more unsprung mass coliding behind the impact zone on square edges.

i experianced this phenomenon also.

Extra (unsprung) weight Of an ihg would be likely to make (impact) punctures more common I’d say.

Extra (unsprung) weight Of an ihg would be likely to make (impact) punctures more common I’d say.

That's definitely a bit of an issue with Rohloff. Of course, Pinion goes the other way - making them less likely with reduced unsprung weight.

A frame mounted IGH, you say?...

A frame mounted IGH, you say?…

https://flic.kr/p/fAAN3h

Moved on to pastures new now, but still owned by a forum member (I think)

One thing to keep on top of with the Alfine 8 is the gear cable. I thought my cable was fine but the hub felt a bit draggy and clunky. I stripped it down intending to service the internals but when I opened it up it was pristine so I just closed it up again without touching it. I replaced the cables and it's much better.

Got a Di2 Alfine 8 on the commuter, wouldn't fancy it off-road. Gear shift bit is OK, hub bit less good (bearings and stuff not up to Hope standard) and just really odd weight distribution.
I have both geared and SS MTBs.

I do also have a c456 with an Alfine 8 on it. Use it for off road commuting and local rides. Apart from the first ride to get used to the weight change, it's been fine and I ride it like any other bike off road.

A frame mounted IGH, you say?…

Rohloffs: Got 2.

First one I bought 2004, rode it for about 500 miles but quickly returned to single speed. Couldn't stand the coffee grinder noises in low gear (slight hyperbole). Still got it lying around somewhere.

Second one. Bought secondhand so it's seen some use. Much nicer. Used it in the WEMBO 24 Hour Ft William last year. Was amazed how easy the hills were in comparison to SS (I know, dumb).

I strongly dislike the gear change on them though.

My brother has one with close to 50,000 miles on it that he's used for expedition rides hauling a heavily laden trailer in the Oz bush. It runs much more sweetly than mine. He reckons it has saved him a black fortune in derailleurs in that time.

They are very much the tool and the only sensible choice for the serious mileage cyclist IMO.

Alfine 8: Got 3 in the family.

Can't fault the one I have on my Ti bike. Runs sweetly, and a nice gear change even though it's several years old. I also have one on a fat bike and it also is nice.

However the one on my daughter's bike feels like a fluid flywheel filled with treacle until it engages. It has done barely 100 miles though.

Sturmey-Archer 3 speed: have a few.

It's a shame they don't make a mtb version. This is the king of hubgears IMO. Light, you don't notice it on e back of the bike, clean straight chainline, and inexpensive. Will run forever with simple maintenance - I think nothing of taking my 70 year old bike out for 100 mile ride including rough stuff because I know the hub is reliable.

OK it's only 3 speeds, but it's light and simple - middle gear (direct) for the flats, low gear for the climbs and headwinds, and high gear for the downs and tailwinds. Our fathers and grandfathers rode the same roads (before they were sanitised and flattened) as we do with 3spds.

Extra (unsprung) weight Of an ihg would be likely to make (impact) punctures more common I’d say.

Ah, I see. And now you've put that in my head, I'll be thinking about it all the time and I can think of a few occasions when I have lost all the air from my back tyre after what felt like relatively ordinary impacts. 🙁

I don't really do the mega miles that is the Rohloff's trumpeted use case, either ... so this thread may end up costing me. Thanks, Singletrack…

Extra (unsprung) weight Of an ihg would be likely to make (impact) punctures more common I’d say.

I'd say that a lot of it is down to the bike it's fitted to too.
It probably makes less on a relatively burly steel hardtail with chunky 160 forks on the front.
I can't say that I've noticed more rear punctures than before (it was set up as a SS previously).
Yes you can just about feel that the weight is maybe more rear biased, but you just distribute you weight slightly differently.
Going by manufacturers quoted weights the difference between a 1x setup and an Alfine setup is only a matter of a few hundred grams.

Rohloff on my main MTB since 2006, maybe around 10 oil changes (if not fewer) in that time, and once I sent the wheel back to Rohloff, not that anything was wrong with it, I just felt someone taking it apart after 10 year for servicing might be a good idea; no charge apart from postage!

It's on an aluminium hardtail, my SS is lighter, my FS much heavier, so I like how light the bike feels. A derailleur bike might be 500g max lighter, but more punctures, really? Strangely enough this argument never comes up when people go on about the virtues of 1x drivetrains even though many cassettes have their own gravitational field, right at the same point where the Rohloff sits on mine (ignoring tubeless for a second, which eliminates snakebites anyway).

Positives: I spend less time servicing/repairing/replacing things and more time riding, looks 'clean', can shift while stationary or hopping before an obstacle, nice and quiet/no chain slapping, far less sensitive to the cable tension not being 100%; makes me more likely to go riding when muddy...
Negatives: read-wheel removal takes 10sec longer (track ends in my case with MonkeyBone), TwistShifter (I don't mind it too much, BUT: has anyone experimented with dropper post levers left and right, is the cable pull similar to Rohloff or the Cinq5 shifters?), I am not limited to frames with 135mm rear spacing.
For the future: Conversion kit to 142 or 148mm frames, and e-shifting kit by Rohloff for non-e-bikes, that would be neat.

Yes you can just about feel most definantly feel that the weight is maybe more
rear biased

The burly 160ht would probably mask it more that's why mines now on a 4 inch tires 9zero7 can't feel the weight imbalance because the fronts heavy too.

 

I've come back to this thread to say that I've just been out to my bike and there's no way I'd want to take the Rohloff off. I've had 3 years, including winters, of consistent, reliable and maintenance-free shifting.

I'd be happy to have 1x on another type of bike, but for this one, it's a big part of the bike's character. I think I am hooked.

As folk have said above, the weight of a cassette is not insignificant. And that's measured 'dry' – ie, before it's all clagged up with mud and grot. How many of us remove our cassettes to clean out all the mud that gets caught in the dish after every ride?

Honestly now...

I've got a Rohloff on the all year round off road commuter. If you want gears then there is no better option for a bike that can be plastered in wet mud twice a day for a good proportion of the year. Mine has averaged a new chain and sprocket every 3 years and a new chainring every 6. Chain gets an occasional wipe and a liberal application of any old oil lying around and an annual oil change. Original shifter cables were still working when I changed them after 7 or 8 years despite the outer being quite badly cracked.

There are better options for bikes you ride when you want to ride but nothing better for bikes you ride when you need to ride.

Yes you can just about feel most definantly feel that the weight is maybe more
rear biased

Thanks for editing what I said, cos other people's opinions aren't at all valid are they? 🙄

In my personal experience I don't find the rear weight bias an issue at all, yes I notice it a bit, but I don't find it a massive problem.

However, putting that to one side, I'm in total agreement with Dorset_Knob. Low maintenance and consistent shifting in shitty weather on a bike trumps a bit of extra weight any day.

I run an Alfine 11 on my Krampus and my mate runs a Rohloff on a BFe.

I don't feel the need to go back to derailleurs on the Krampus.

I do run derailleurs on my road & pub bikes and they do feel different.

I've worked out that any perceived additional drag in the Alfine can easily be overcome by getting fitter 😉

You can put that to one side, I did that with an alfine. Kept smacking it in to shit. Did make my bunny hoping skills improve. When I occasionally think about building a geared hardtail I have no inclination to pick that alfine up off the bench.

Issue is facts trump perceived opinion.

Facts are derailleur =95% -97% efficient. Rohloff 94% and Alfine 8 -90%. Nuvinci 83.5% efficient.

It weighs more than a quality drive train and that weight is concentrated out the back.

The good news is that if you output low power and you + bike weigh lots then those losses are all much less magnified than if you do as I did and put it on a racing snakes ultra light long distance race bike. I basically built a bike that exasperated all the issues and made them highly visible by putting them in a measurable environment......

I'll take a rohloff over any other gear system any time.

Rode 2 alfine 8 into the ground.

I fancy one.

Rohloff.
Draggy, rear puncture prone and bearings kept getting play in them.
Alfine.
Even draggyer and hated the slow engagement.
Felt like it'd half engage then go kind of soft as you put the power down.
I love the idea of IGH's but couldn't put up with the downsides.
Love to try a Pinion but suspect it'd feel like a Rohloff.

Yep, had an alfine based mtb in my quiver for years. Always have a winter mtb with one. My ebike has one too. Brilliant things, but do need to be maintained. Biggest issues are with dirty cables.

I ran an alfine on my scandal for a few years. It did a couple of the original Kielder 100s including getting completely submerged in the head tube deep puddle of death. I liked being able to change gear without needing to pedal.

Then it failed catastrophically on the first pedal stroke of a family holiday doing the Coast and Castles and I ended up doing the whole ride singlespeed, towing a trailer, with my old alfine wheel lashed on top.

I realised they're great until they fail then there's more likelihood of getting a conventional derailleur fixed.

Just for clarity, my comments about the increased possibility of punctures in an igh equipped bike would only relate to the rear wheel.
And, ‘if’ a 1x setup weighed the same, then, if fitted to the same bike, would have the same effect.
However, that is only theory, i doubt anyone has done an actual study to prove/disprove it.
For the record, my mate owns the lbs, and has several customers come in with rohloff equipped bikes, the most that ever gets done to them is new sprocket, or oil change, or gear cable/adjustment..
I’d have one on an mtb, or a tourer, but probably not a racing bike.
I’ve used a bike with alfine 11 on it, id have a di2 one of those too.

Been using Alfines for MTB'ing for several years, here's my tales of , mainly, woe... But I do still like them when they are working.
Bought my first A11 from ad's on here, lasted area months before slipping gears could not be sorted by any amount of cable twiddling - they are very sensitive to adjustment & the "yellow lines" alignment is not the definitive setting. The original owner kindly got the hub replaced.
This then lasted about 2 years of regular use including my mainly off-road 10mile each way commute.
It failed with the shoulder supporting the main sun gear being the culprit. This shoulder does not fully support the side thrust on the gear due to the selector needing to pass through to the pawls.
Bought a new axle assembly (£55), rebuilt it & went again for another year until the disc mount sheared off the hub body - seems to be a common failure mode as the material at the junction is somewhat lacking... Also hub bodies are not available as spares.
Bought a new S7000-8, the 8 speed with the correct way shifting, also has more meat around the disc mount, ran fine for 2 1/2 years until earlier this week when the thing failed with the sun gear shoulder issue. No spares are available.
Am now building the old 11 speed internals into another hub body, that has apparently dead internals, bequeved from a kind fellow on here last year.
When that one fails, it will be a toss up between sun gear shoulder or disc mount - have machined a fillet radius into the junction on the replacement hub as there's a horrible sharp transition there - to see if that helps.
So, unless you have a lot of patience, ability to take these things apart & use with a lot of mechanical sympathy, I'd steer clear of an Alfine & stick with a derrailier set up. As said earlier, I do still like the things when they are working, simple & cheap drivetrain maintenance, smooth & quiet but they are more draggy than a derrailier set up.

I don't currently use an internal hub, but ran an Alfine for a couple of years a few years ago. Mechanically it was excellent, and made perfect sense. The gears ran smoothly, maintenance was minimal, etc. The gripshift wasn't ideal, and changing gear took a bit more thought, but having the gears on the inside is the only logical way.

But the weight balance was a real issue, and made the bike feel lifeless on the trails. I swapped it out for a conventional XT mech setup and spent some time setting up the cables properly, and haven't looked back

I haven't used a hub gear in years, but as the other contributors have suggested, hub gears seem to make more sense on e-bikes.

I am intrigued by the newer sturmey-archer three speeds as they have got rid of the 'deadly' gear slippage of yore.

Apparently, they're still not designed for mud.

Some bloke on the forum successfully adapted his 3-speed to sealed bearings. Maybe they should do this at the factory.

What really does surprise me is that no-one has yet put out an e-bike drive with integrated gearbox.

https://www.intra-drive.com/

One think to bear in mind about hub gears, especially Rohloff and S-A, is if they are properly maintained, then they are not consumables like derailleur setups and will outlast several sets of them.

if they are properly maintained, then they are not consumables like derailleur setups and will outlast several sets of them.

Great point. My Alfine 8 was secondhand 5/6 years ago. Cost me £100ish. In that time I've bought some ATF fluid for it, a couple of sprockets and maybe 2 chains. So very low running costs.
If looked after I'd hope to get another 5+ years out of it at least. But if it did go pop tomorrow it's cost me about £30 per year of use.

Do the people who’ve had trouble with bearings on Rohloff do a lot of river crossings? I rode thousands of miles on Rohloff both off road and on in all weathers and never had an issue with bearings on any of our hubs.

https://www.intra-drive.com/

His photo has a real “went for a few beers after work on a Friday and got carried away, fell out of the club at 2am” vibe to it. Who wears a tie but doesn’t do up their top button?

Not had any problems with the bearings on my Rohloff. It's still on the original bearings and seals after about 10000 miles of all weather MTBing, rarely being cleaned and it's still running fine. I only change the oil when I remember which is about every 18 months.

Regarding the weight issue I have never found it a problem; I haven't had a rear puncture in about 4 years either. The hub weighs about the same as the fork (RS Reba) so the bike balances right in the middle which I find quite nice.