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I think aside from at the start of an MTB race, then MTB races are a "time trial" - it is you against the clock. You don't benefit from being in a bunch of riders to the same degree as you do on the road. It is purely down to how fast you can navigate the course against the clock.
I know what you mean Mr blobby, its fine in the bunch but get on the front and its disgustingly hard so you try to stay away from the front. Then you finish and feel like you could have done more. Either that, or on the more twisty Crits I get pinged out the back and feel there was always a little more left to be wrung out of the legs in the quest to hang on.
Not only that but in mtb race your HR stays quite flat just like a TT.
For an Enduro take on the fitness side of things this is interesting:
[url= http://enduro-mtb.com/en/exclusive-fitness-in-focus-the-physical-demands-of-racing/ ]Enduro racing demands[/url]
I think aside from at the start of an MTB race, then MTB races are a "time trial" - it is you against the clock. You don't benefit from being in a bunch of riders to the same degree as you do on the road. It is purely down to how fast you can navigate the course against the clock.
I could agree with this in some XC races I've done, but in others surely tactics play a part?
Last week I'd been neck-and-neck with one rider for the whole race. Despite feeling strong enough to pass on the last lap, I drafted him down the long straight and let him work harder before popping past and hammering it up the hill to open a gap.
Surely enough the glory of 8th place was mine.
I'm sort of the opposite - last crit i averaged 88% of max for the race and didnt drop below 85%. Very similar to what i'd see in a points race at the track with big power spikes and bits of recovery but those are after big efforts and not long enough for heart rate to fall much.
I suppose everyone varies and it also depends on the circuit being used.
I know what you mean Mr blobby, its fine in the bunch but get on the front and its disgustingly hard so you try to stay away from the front.
Yup, even if you get into a little break no one seems to want to do any work. Then the race just stagnates. Pretty frustrating stuff. Thought I'd give it a try for a bit of fun and variety, but not sure I can be bothered to stick with it. May try some different circuits.
I think the similarity between TT and XC is that the level of Percieved Exertion is always high, in most cases you are pretty much riding as hard as you can for the duration.
Kryton, keeping at it is starting to pay off. Got dropped by the leaders then got back on, that's an improvement. Then was dropped again. Then same old same old, solo and wait for my main bunch so I can get a breather, then get saucy again.
That was yesterday in that bloody wind.
Racing the MTB Friday, well racing the off the peg special. can't even remember how much pressure to put in the tyres?
its fine in the bunch but get on the front and its disgustingly hard so you try to stay away from the front.
Only road race I ever did slowed right down at the end, cos it was going to be a sprint anyway so why rush? Fair enough I thought.
How many crits have you done to date Oldgit?
I'm still tempted to ride the one on Saturday despite the Tour of Cambridgeshire ride the next day...
I jst find it hard to "give" up on stuff like this, but don't want to flog a dead horse although I'd definately be doing it for the craic not the points.
It's fine to do them, but targetting them is different. Doing them will probably benefit the rest of your training. I've lost track now anyway - are you targetting long XC or not?
Long XC, short XC, crits, road races, TT's, sportives, hard club rides. Still all in the mix as far as I can tell 🙂
😀
Short XC mostly and 1 x long XC. Club rides, Sportives TT, crits if I do them would be for fun of cycling / training.
But I'm "training" for XC.
😆
You're not a big chap, are you? You might be better off doing hilly XCs rather than the Southern uppy downy ones.
Course, there aren't that many with long climbs in, especially not down south.
I like BC's new website btw.
I'm 6ft and 75kgs, barrel chested, skinny legs. I profile as "time trailing".
75kg? That'll be all the rum 🙂
This year? Just five as I leave it until May. Done some early road races.
mrblobby - Member
75kg? That'll be all the rum
It's worse. I've just weighed myself at 78kgs. That's adding 7lb since February, arse. 7lb of lard!
Sorry to go OT but I'm really quite excited by this and wanted to share 😀 kinda seems to fit in the thread...
I really really bloody hope it gets the go ahead, it'll be excellent for the area and I reckon it'll drag in loads of people from the surrounding counties if a regular midweek race series can start up. It'll be an amazing (and safe!) training venue too, something that I thought was absolutely brilliant about Milton Keynes Bowl on Tuesday nights!!
Well, I lined up in the "race" pen of the Tour of Cambridgeshire yesterday. Had a great first hour working with one of our girls and a few others to average 25.5mph. Then, up a slight incline "ouch!" my hamstring tweaked. I spent a good hour riding it off, finding bunches to hide in and stay away from being solo in the wind - for anyone reading this is where experience of riding crits real helped. There was a period on the fens where I was solo / leading a group which was really hard work riding rough the pain as well on a flat course with no chance for a rest on the pedals - only 500m climbing all day.
It was an excellent experience with pro tour outriders taking photos on mopeds and shouting encouragement, really felt the part. Should be some good photos!
In the end I limped home 82 miles average 21mph at 3:58, not the slowest but not as fast as I could, and 4 minutes past the UCI amateur RR qualifying time. I almost posted this in the doldrums thread, but on reflection it was a good day despite the injury. Great news for our club with a 3rd overall and 1st place in one of the women's age cats, and 6th woman overall.
I've lowered my saddle 5mm and will stretch to help the hamstring for next weeks Velothon Wales.
Sounds like a decent day, did you sack Saturday's crit off?
First RR proper for me next week, away from circuits. An evening 3/4 and potentially a 2/3/4 at the weekend with another the following week.
Did you sack Saturday's crit off?
Yep. I'm glad I did TBH, also family time was also a big consideration.
First road race of the season on Saturday, 104km of very rolling terrain, just over 1,100 meters of climbing and an average speed of 37kph.
Got drowned by a passing storm after an hour or so but managed to hang onto the first bunch once the breakaway had gone clear, I didn't have the legs to pull much though. Came home in the top 20 after bailing out of the manic sprint for the remaining top 10 places.
Great fun!
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Nice work Chef. Like the jersey, so much nicer than our club kit!
@ Kryton - are the Tour of Cambridgeshire results online anywhere? Thanks.
Yep, on the main website under the TT and Gran Fondo tabs respectively. Did you ride - how did you get on?
It appears I've qualified for the UCI RWC final in Denmark being with 25% of my category - shite on a stick!
Excellent result Kryton. 🙂 Will check on the website, the boy was riding.
Edit: he was a minute in front of you.
It appears I've qualified for the UCI RWC final in Denmark being with 25% of my category - shite on a stick!
Does that equate to credible cat 4 then? 🙂
Edit: he was a minute in front of you.
Excellent - how do you know which number / position I was?
Does that equate to credible cat 4 then?
Dunno! Didn't someone say in last weeks conversation I might be better of trying a road race? 😀
On the previous page you gave your time. 🙂
Edit: he may possibly be in the same club as you.
LP?
Wow small world! He's in too by my calculations?
Yes! He was in the 19-34 category, he's my son.
Lol! I'm goimg to wait for a suitably opportune embarrassing moment to mention that I "know" his mum.
😆 He's always been OK with his mum being a bit different to other mums!
On the club run at the weekend and they managed to convince me to have a go at a TT tonight, first one, 16 mile and hilly. Fastest time on Strava seems to be 25mph... I'm actually kinda nervous 😀 It's ran by a local "rival" club that's a bit prickly at times so we'll see how it goes...
Well that was awkward...it was a 14 miler and the finish snuck up on me 😛 A few definite lesson learnt from tonight!
Just checked your strava - nice pace!!
Cheers mate! Just seen the results on Twitter, 5th so pretty pleased. "Only" 3 minutes down on the winner... 😯
Nice ride there monkeyfudger. I got lost in Greystoke forest once.
Ta! Weirdly I've only ever ridden through Greystoke village, never ridden the surrounding hills at all so although I was expecting hilly I wasn't expecting it to be that cheeky. I can see how it can become quickly addictive, it was good craic!
It is very addictive. You'll probably find you get quite a bit faster over the first few you do as you learn how to ride them, that gets you hooked. Then it's just a frustrating battle for a handful of seconds here and there 🙂
Haha yeah I can imagine the frustration of going slower on a previous course too!! Some mistakes were made, mincing around the (blind) corners and not pushing enough downhill. We'll gloss over riding straight through the middle of that large pothole at one of the marshalled junctions and getting spat onto the other side of the road 😯
I really shouldn't have sat on the Planet X Exocit...
Well then, that's me entered for my first National XC race! Here's hoping I don't get a complete arse kicking!
Nice work monkeyfudger, now don't let us down 😉
First properly big open TT for me on the weekend on a fast dual carridgeway course. PB by some margin but it did feel a bit like cheating!
Third go at a cat 4 tomorrow, shall see I've figured out how to get some points this time out 🙂
Good luck! Had my first group ride experience in far far too long on Thrursday night actually, chain gang around the local RR circuit, bloody brilliant! You forget how awesome it is riding in a tight group at speed!
Local chaingang tomorrow then into my 3/4 RR on Wednesday night.
Really looking forward to it, I've taken the pressure off by being accepted into a 2/3/4 at the weekend where I expect a kicking...
Well that was a bit more fun. Usual boring race around Thruxton so went for it solo with 2 laps to go. Had a decent gap with one lap to go. Almost made it too, got caught just before the last sequence of bends. 10 more watts and I'd have probably made it 🙂
Well done!
I was taking to another Club member yesterday and whilst in the same boat as me, he described the same thing - that rather than hovering mid pack he's riding top ten and having a go. This is to no avail so far but he describes it as safer, and more fun "racing" for 45 minutes than struggling to keep up for an hour.
Might do a few more of these in August, but I'm seriously thinking about a Cat 4 road race as well.
Thanks Kryton.
Interesting to look at the analysis and see what it takes to succeed at a solo break though. Hovering around the back of the pack I was lapping in about 5:25 which was taking about 210 watts, pretty easy. For a solo lap in 5:17 I averaged over 360 watts (NP of about 380W). I reckon to succeed in that solo break I'd have needed to put out about 370 watts for 12 minutes (~5.2w/kg) at the end of an hours racing. Came pretty close! Pack really accelerates on the last lap and did about 5:03 so staying clear is a big ask round that circuit. Really need 2 or 3 hard workers in a break I reckon.
Anyway I think that'll be it for me for a while as my Tuesday evenings are no longer free. Focus firmly on testing for the test of the season now.
Have to be prepared to lose if you want to win. Well done!
Back in training but a Strava fitness of 28 🙁 (It was over 70 before the accident). Will definitely be racing in a couple of months 😀 . TT's before that.
Thanks TiRed. Shame no one came with me, if there had been two of us working I reckon we'd have made it quite easily.
Which TT's you racing? You doing them on the recumbent? 🙂
Well done fella!! Better to have tried and failed, that's a good few horses you were throwing down the road 😀 Shame you can't do another one, people remember the strong man that went off the front and nearly made it, you could get company next time!
Thanks monkeyfudger. A few riders did come over after the race for a chat and said they'd wished they'd tried something, shall keep an eye out for them next time and try and get something going.
Is interesting to put some numbers around it though to see what it would take. Looking at the lap times I think had I tired the same thing a couple of weeks back I might well have made it as the field was smaller and the laps slower. Pack just a bit too big and fast this week. Only my third crack at it so all good experience 🙂
Thruxton was fun last night - and for once I was reasonably placed going into the sprint, a little confusion as we lapped the cat 4 race helped. But the last lap was a bit too hot for me and I was already cooked as we went into the chicane.
A break will work if you can get people to go with you - the top 2 in the cat 3 race were the remainder of an 8 man break I think.
Well done. It's a gutting feeling getting caught before the finish (it happened to me once with less than 20 metres to go - made even worse by a photo finish taking me from 3rd to 4th and off the podium) but it's still preferable to ending up in the same position and having fresh legs at the end and not feeling like you've given it a real good go.
Back in training but a Strava fitness of 28 (It was over 70 before the accident).
I'm down to 30, from a pre-accident 76 and a one year high of 91
i got my brevet card back yesterday from the last ride i did pre accident, a 300km on the 9th May, seems so long ago 🙁
gary, I'd just crossed the line before you guys finished and was hoping you'd slowed the cat 4 pack a bit in them keeping clear 🙂
The two cat 3 leaders were actually a bit of a problem as I was going about the same speed as them on the same bit of track and was trying to go flat out but not mess with their race, probably cost me a little time.
A break will work if you can get people to go with you
Yes, looking at the numbers I think it would, it's just getting people to go with you who'll put some work in that's the problem. Everyone in the cat 4 race just seems to want to sit in and wait for the sprint.
gary, I'd just crossed the line before you guys finished and was hoping you'd slowed the cat 4 pack a bit in them keeping clear
I think we probably did a bit, from talking to team mates in the cat 4 race there was some confusion about whether they were finishing. And there was also a bit of a mess with us getting into the pit lane.
Yes, looking at the numbers I think it would, it's just getting people to go with you who'll put some work in that's the problem.
I can link you up with some of my team mates who are up for it if you are down there again. The debrief in the pub last night largely revolved around ways to get a break away due to lack of sprint!
I think we probably did a bit, from talking to team mates in the cat 4 race there was some confusion about whether they were finishing. And there was also a bit of a mess with us getting into the pit lane.
Yes, the head of the cat 3 pack went past me just after the finish line then started to cut across me to get into the pits. Had to do a fair bit of shouting.
I can link you up with some of my team mates who are up for it if you are down there again. The debrief in the pub last night largely revolved around ways to get a break away due to lack of sprint!
That'd be cool, though not sure when I'll be doing it next. Pretty sure from the numbers that had I had just one person willing to work with me we'd have held the pack off last night. And that was a pretty big fast pack for the last lap. Which team are you in?
I'm riding for DHC. We had 3 riders in the cat 4 race yesterday who were all up for trying stuff. One of them did similar to you a couple of races ago and nearly made it - he'd be well up for another bash I'm sure.
Thanks Gary, have emailed you.
Just back from my 3/4 RR, first one away from the circuits...and it was awesome!
Had a little dig early but quickly realised it wasn't going to happen so sat in and decided to get familiar.
So much smoother than the circuits I've done, no hairpin/sprint/interval repeat.
May even have crept into the top 10...
Sorry to re-introduce the twist to CXO agin but - phew what a night. The course last night was a climbers course, 500m in 10 miles and although it was circular and of course went equally down as much as the up, it didn't feel like it. I felt sick on lap one after the post start sprint effort followed by a climb, and was still rough at 11pm sitting on the sofa! Stats reveal 97% at HR threshold or anaerobic.
15 riders of 87 DNF'd which is attritional for this series indeed, but it looks like (provisionally) I'm 11th vet - quite shocked really as is course didn't suit me at all whoop! More points!
Nice work Kryton. Was that CX or XC? Worst part of an XC race is definitely the vomit inducing sprint off the line.
XC.
Worst part of an XC race is definitely the vomit inducing sprint off the line.
Yes I thought I'd be used to it, but it never changes. It was a 500m dash up a 12% road circuit hill, across the road circuit then down some grass banks into half a mile of uphill single track at pace, including a 5m grass bank that had everyone standing over the bars to get up it. Double vomit opportunity.
x 5 laps, and thats just the first two minutes.
Well the 2/3/4 went well, expected a kicking but was still alive with 3km to go when my rear derailleur and chain had a big falling out at best part of 30mph. Big lock up with the axle ripped out of the dropouts, no idea how I managed to hang onto it!
First DNF is slightly disappointing, especially as I was making good progress towards the end.
But also very happy to have done much better than I expected.
Bike racing is ace.
was still rough at 11pm sitting on the sofa! Stats reveal 97% at HR threshold or anaerobic.
Well done but you should try 6hrs at 85% - I'm feeling it a week later. Did grace a podium though! 😀
Nice one Adsh, that's a tough effort!. I did similar BORs recently, and it's only a few weeks until my target 24 solo.
Nice one Daz. Look forward to hearing all about it...
Cheers Tom, it's going well 🙂
Blimey. 25th of 77 finishers plus 12 DNF's and 9th Vet - a top 10 and another 7 BC points! (XCO) I'd had an illness laden start to the year but its getting better every week, not bad on 6-7hrs a week training.
It'll be interesting how this manifests itself in the end of season (Sept onwards for me) road crits.
Good going Kryton. Sniffing top ten again here as well. Always want to race well July August and September. That's why I don't bother much with winter road races.
Tried to use Summer Monkey 6hr to launch into a 2 week speed phase block, a slight rest week last week and now a 1.5/2 week long distance/training camp (not much intensity) followed by a week taper for Bontrager 12hr which is a training event for me.
Summer monkey TSS 300,
Week 1 TSS 450- Z2, Z3 and a light Z5 interval session
Week 2 TSS 685 - Z2, more Z3, 5x15minutes Z4 intervals, 4x5minutes Z5
Week 3 TSS 400 - Z1, 5x15minutes Z4 intervals, 4x5minutes Z5
Week 4 - started with a 4hr Z2/3 ride
I can't post my TSB chart but suffice to say it lies, feels like week 3 didn't allow any recovery. Legs were gone after 2 hours today. The Z4 intervals session is a killer that really takes it out of me. Also under quite a lot of stress and not slept well etc
What to do - persevere with a very hard week and have a 2 week taper or rest for 3-4 days restart and stick with a weeks taper or MTFU and stick to the plan?
TSS is not well suited to describing MTB type riding. I wouldn't fret too much about these numbers as the more MTB riding you do the more your TSS will be underestimated. Use it as a guide for load by all means but it certainly isn't the be all and end all.
Thanks to inspiration from this thread I did my first road (closed circuit) race in about 4 years, and I bl**dy loved it. A few weeks ago I built up an aluminium TCR with some reasonable deep sections on a fairly tight budget and after a few shakedowns near home I took it to Hillingdon last night. I've raced at Hillingdon a lot in the past but not been there in the thick end of 5 years so I entered the 3/4 non ranking race and had a great time. I really enjoyed getting back in the wheels and not wanting to sound in any way condescending the standard of riding at this level at Hillingdon has come on a long way, it used to be a little scary at times but the riders have obviously spent a lot of time honing their skills and the coaches have worked really hard.
The race; I rolled around in the group for a few laps just to find my feet but given that you only get 30mins and 3 I thought I'd better get stuck in, as a previous solo attack started to come back to the group I sent one up the back straight into the wind and got 80 maybe 100metres quite quickly and sat there for a couple of laps knowing it was too early for my current fitness so I slowly edged back to the group and sat in again. A few laps later I had another feeler to see if anyone was prepared to join in and I found myself alone again but I'd not recovered enough from the last go so I was away for about a lap and got sucked back in again. I sat in for a few more laps while there was some aggressive riding on the front by a few of the stronger riders but nothing went away so with what turned out to be 3.5 laps to go I had one last do or die, I quickly gained a decent gap and eeked out a little more but I got caught with about 3/4's of a lap to go by a guy from Charlotteville but he was a little too strong for me to hang on too, his attacked encouraged a big effort from this really powerful guy who came flying over the top of both of us and he dragged the rest of the bunch up so within about 300m I went from 1st with a reasonable gap to the back of the pack. It was great fun...
Loving that ^^ nice one Adam I start crits again in September, and my first TT and I'm looking forward to both.
Cheers Kryton, it's nice to go and race with no stress. When I last raced on the road I got caught up with 'training' now I just ride how/when I want and help my team mates where I can with their training. While my fitness isn't what it was I feel a lot less pressure and therefore a lot more enjoyment - good place 🙂
Good to read this page. Nice results there Kryton and a good tale, Adam.
does anyone know if you can use a bike with disc brakes in the 3/4's at Hillingdon?
I'm guessing that you probably can't but I thought I'd check just in case.
If it a BC event, no(t yet*).
*maybe