[Closed] How long to be a credible Cat 4 or am I just crap (road content)

Too much rest and not enough long rides.

A crit is an hour so that leaves time on Sunday for a 3hr ride at a steady pace. You don't batter yourself that much in 1hr of racing to require a day off. If anything you need to get out and spin your legs.

Same before the crit - too much time off and then expecting your body to cope with an hour of max effort. You should easily cope with a couple of hours on Thursday at least, even if it's just commuting by bike.

Easier said than done with a professional job and two kids. But bid squeeze in more rides if I'm WFH or have a day off.

It is a tricky regime that K, but agree you do need some mileage in your legs, y could supplement one of your intervals for a longer ride perhaps. Looks like it'll be at night so go somewhere in the lanes of hills and make a loop of about 15k and do it twice then time yourself and set intervals on the loop(s)
I have a favourite loop for just this type of work, bike in the van 15mins to the start of the loops, bike out, warm up15mins then set off. I'm lucky it's quiet and I know the lanes well so I can hack sharp corners and descents to shave a few seconds off.. I get out at 7 and back in at 930, eat then bed. If your kids are tucked up already you won't miss them..

Don't beat yourself up if you can't fulfil this type of training in, just do what you can..

😐

Sure. It's just a desire to do the right thing to be fitter and stronger.

It's a windy day tomorrow but in have the day off, so I'm trying to decide whether to do a long turbo tempo session or metric century in the wind. I hate wind...

Train your weaknesses race to your strengths.

Take the wind on.

I'll echo what others have said.

Race Saturday
3 hours Sunday
Rest Monday
Long intervals Tuesday
Short intervals Wednesday
Long intervals Thursday
Rest Friday

Sat: Crit
Sun: [b]Rest[/b]
Mon: Intervals, 15 mins warm up, 4 x 2min powerintervals, 8 mins rest then 9 mins over/under (2 mins under, 1 min over x 3)
Tues: [b]rest[/b]
Weds : Intervals, 15 mins Z2 warm up, 30 mins Tempo, 15 mins Z2 cool down
Thurs: [b]Rest[/b]
Fri: [b]Rest[/b]

I see more rest days than training days, I genuinely think you could easily be a reasonable crit racer on 5-6 hours of training a week, but you need to do more and it needs to be intense stuff (it looks like it already is).

These are 1 hour long bike races, it just isn't necessary to train for more than 2 hours on any given day, sufficient yes, but necessary, no. If you think that's necessary, you're misinterpreting the demands of crit racing.

Maybe chuck in a 90 minute tempo ride the day after the race, if you're not up to that, a 2 hour level 2 ride is better than nothing.

Well ollie51, until this week I was doing 3 x per week if the type of interval indicate on "Monday" above, plus a club ride.

However, there is summary at the end of a plan - which I've reached - which tells me to back off and recover for 4-6 weeks, I'm worried about losing my fitness and gaining weight as I'm not a naturally strong rider and have races through to The end of March. The plan above is supposed to be me resting a bit - replacing 1 x intensity with tempo - to reduce the toll on my body.

Interesting quote from joe friel re distance work for crits with reference to the last 5 weeks pre crit:

[i]During these five weeks, keep the volume of your training low. The emphasis must be on sprint intensity. Piling on the miles will only detract from the quality of your anaerobic endurance workouts while providing no greater fitness.[/i]

Kinda goes against the advice above....

Just thoughts based on the way I used to train...

This time of year was always just riding, no racing. Traditionally big ride at the weekend, usually on a Sunday, which would be 60-70 miles occasionally with a café stop. I did some of these with others, and some alone.
Monday would be a rest day.
Tuesday was a ride of about 40 miles in the evening after work, steady at this time of year but not hanging about.
Wednesday an evening ride of about 2 hours.
Thursday rest.
Friday either pub or another 2 hours.
Saturday 2-3 hours.
Sunday as above.

Continue until the clocks changed, then chaingang on a Tuesday night, which was 2 hours through and off at 20-30 mph with a big climb at the end.

Winter is for piling on the miles, being sociable, getting positions dialled, working on technique, losing weight, climbing in silly big gears..

Come March it was racing as much as possible.

I used to aim for about 150 miles a week in the winter if possible, then up to 250 in the spring.

Various silly rules; no shorts before Easter, no big ring until March.

It can be a long season, you're not going to race it all without putting some steady long rides in, learning about peaking for events, targeting events and doing fast work only on top of a good base.

Oh and you'll never ever ever get away from 3rd and 4th cat racing without learning to sprint.

Interesting quote from joe friel re distance work for crits with reference to the last 5 weeks pre crit:

During these five weeks, keep the volume of your training low. The emphasis must be on sprint intensity. Piling on the miles will only detract from the quality of your anaerobic endurance workouts while providing no greater fitness.

Kinda goes against the advice

Not really, Joe Friel is the master of training in blocks of specificity. Before those 5 weeks mentioned he would have prescribed a number of 4 weeks blocks looking at base, strength, intensity etc.

That advice would also be aimed at someone aiming to peak for one or two specific races in an entire season, that's how his plans work.

So whilst undoubtably correct when taken in context, it falls over when cherry picked out of context.

Crikey my "season" is dictated by school hols. E.g. I'm intending to enjoy myself on a beach in August, with my last sportive ending late July and the Bonty 24/12 done.

Hence starting earlier than March, but also starting early to get experienced before road races in May/June/July. I'll be riding crits until end April then road races / mtb endurance until end of July. I want to avoid burning myself out also.

Not really, Joe Friel is the master of training in blocks of specificity. Before those 5 weeks mentioned he would have prescribed a number of 4 weeks blocks looking at base, strength, intensity etc.

Yes but I'm between crits on a weekly basis, and what I'm asking in a round about way, is that having ended my training cycle, how do I continue to train without killing myself. I think the answers are above - add some base miles.

Well ollie51, until this week I was doing 3 x per week if the type of interval indicate on "Monday" above, plus a club ride.

However, there is summary at the end of a plan - which I've reached - which tells me to back off and recover for 4-6 weeks, I'm worried about losing my fitness and gaining weight as I'm not a naturally strong rider and have races through to The end of March. The plan above is supposed to be me resting a bit - replacing 1 x intensity with tempo - to reduce the toll on my body.

Interesting quote from joe friel re distance work for crits with reference to the last 5 weeks pre crit:

During these five weeks, keep the volume of your training low. The emphasis must be on sprint intensity. Piling on the miles will only detract from the quality of your anaerobic endurance workouts while providing no greater fitness.

Kinda goes against the advice above....

What Friel says is logical and proven by science, I would heed his words of advice.

The issue with rest weeks, particularly scheduled ones, for amateurs with full time jobs is that aren't really necessary, your job and family will probably provide them for you, in a more ad hoc manner.

If you do feel absolutely done and in need of a week of easier riding, don't be afraid to take it, being over rested is much, much better than being under rested.

Just to add worthless comment whilst I sit watching yet more rain and feel the need to blow smoke up my own arse, a few years back I entered my first cat4 road race, had previously only really ridden road on my own. Rode 42 rolling miles there, it was a flat crit 1hr +5, stupidly went of the front from the gun, stayed away for 40mins got swept up by bunch for last 20 then won the sprint. Boom Cat 3 straight off. Luckily wife picked me up!

Kryton57 - Member
I hate wind...

Road racing is about suffering. Learn to love the pain.

This

Fantombiker - Member
Although some of these races are supposed to be 3/4th cat, its quite clear that there are much better riders involved sometimes and there is no equal standard. Either they've dropped down from 2nd cat or want to stay at 3/4 to just beat up everyone. So, if you get dropped in a race, put it behind you and aim for the next one.

...I'm finding hard because this

coopersport1 - Member
Just to add worthless comment whilst I sit watching yet more rain and feel the need to blow smoke up my own arse, a few years back I entered my first cat4 road race, had previously only really ridden road on my own. Rode 42 rolling miles there, it was a flat crit 1hr +5, stupidly went of the front from the gun, stayed away for 40mins got swept up by bunch for last 20 then won the sprint. Boom Cat 3 straight off. Luckily wife picked me up!

...happened this weekend - one of our club members on his second ever race. Brilliant news for him, but mentally tough for me (I didn't rave this weekend but still).

Chap - without wishing to sound harsh, you're not really listening to what folk are suggesting and in your last post coming up with a lot of excuses. There's some pretty handy road riders on here that know quite a bit about racing. Listen to what they suggest (there's a common theme) and stop making excuses. There will always be quick riders trophy hunting. It's a rare race where it's a level playing field. You can do pretty well in 4th cat races on very little fitness if you just position yourself well in the bunch. Work on this, the rest will follow..

Why do you want to race?

I do the odd race (running, biking, duathlon, whatever) for the fun of it - the hustle, the thrill of the chase, seeing how fast I can go, maybe competing with a few mates, whatever. I don't care if some people are there just podium hunting or way fitter cos I know I don't really really care enough to put the extreme training effort, preparation and dedication in to be at the front.

Why is it mentally tough on you that someone else is able to ride off the front of the the group to win? What does that matter? Why do you think you should be able to do this? They might just be the next Bradley Wiggins. It might be such a person has better genes, trains harder, is more rested on that particular day, so many reasons.

At the point where you're finding not doing well (and others doing better) more demoralising than a challenge to do better - is it worth doing?? Where is the enjoyment if it makes you fed up?

I think that is the biggest question. Why race? Several of our club have started in Cat 4 and made it in one or two races. These are young, strong riders who train with the fast chaingang and, unlike me, are not dropped! But if your only ambition is to be Cat3, then I'd say forget it - you'd be there by now. If you want to learn to ride in a group properly, learn to read a race, attack or block, be competititive (which does not mean being the only guy in the picture) and finish top third in a field of 60, these are worthy objectives.

I started racing late, gradually made it to top third in Cat4 and masters, but still the jump to top 10 regularly is tough. That comes from either guns of steel, or more realistically, racecraft. I see riders in our series post top 10 one week and 23rd the next. It is competitive. But it is great fun. Readjust your motivations. For me it's getting new riders racing. I don't worry about them being faster than me. Talent will out. But they still need to be taught what to do when they have a mechanical in the bunch at 26 mph.

Those last posts and particularly mtbtomo's first para are very useful, thanks.

I guess I just want to prove to myself/friends/colleagues that I can be good at something and in my mind "being there" isn't as equivocal as "winning". However as mtbtomo says, I need to front up to the realism of having a very committed job and a a family whilst being in my mid 40's vs any realism that somehow I need to be a podium level racer, at the same time not being naive to the many reasons for not being top 3 or even top 10.

Just been thinking about what I just said; I can sum it up better with my whole life psychology - I'm just not comfortable with being average. Although in reality I probably am.

Ah well.

I've just done my first two as a 4th in my 40's, finished 8th in my first and nowhere in my second.

The difference was a moments inattention on a very windy day, I ending up working far harder trying to get back on than it ever was sitting in the top 10 and eventually cramped through the effort.

I pretty much expect things like this are going to happen from time to time...

Nothing wrong with being average, that's what I am. You can still be a good racer.
Obviously I'd like to be known as a prolific winner, but I'm not. So I'd rather be known as a good rider/racer than a here today gone tomorrow winner.

I'm probably a bit or crikey, mtbtomo, TiRed and a few others. For example I'll never ever bother to try and race at National Champs level again, that really wasn't worth the effort and huge amount of time it took out of my life.

So did you get a ride in on a windy day or not? You mentioned a lack of time but then a day off and considered not going out because of the wind !!On days like that ride out into the wind hard and turn for home with the wind at your back ,even pick a destination for a brew as an insentive

Edric no - I woke up very tired and not motivated to ride most of the day at all, so readjusted and did an hour on the Turbo. I didn't do my normal intervals though, I rode tempo at low cadence with 20 second full on sprints every 5 mins. Seeing as I lack power - I'm a shocking climber - riding in such way is supposed to build strength so I thought I'd try to address it by introducing this tempo ride twice a week.

Also I've got a club ride Sunday so I'm adjusting my style a bit to chase or ride with the good riders/ riders on the front rather than sit in, and use it as an extended training regime aka 80-100k road race sim.

Didyou see its now 12 points to move up to Cat 3.

If it were me unless I was short of time at the weekend I'd bin the crits for now and do club runs instead. That way you'll build endurance and speed. Plus probably learn how to suffer for long periods of time. Then if you do a Tuesday and Thursday turbo session that's probably the best part of 7-8 hours on the bike, should be enough for 3/4 racing. You are never going to be able to cope with the folk who don't work and ride all the time, so forget about them and just enjoy it.

Did you see its now 12 points to move up to Cat 3.

Yup. Two Cat4 races now, not one 😈 . LVRC never looked more attractive 😉

Do the points need to go up to 3rd cat matter much though?

Most races I ever did were 3/4 anyway, and less often 2/3/4 or even E/1/2/3/4. I was never interesting in chasing points, just having fun, so never raced a 4ths only. I can't sprint for toffee (being more of climber), so never had any great results, but had a few top 15s in 3/4 races and could always finish in the bunch. For me the hillier the course the better, which unfortunately for me was very rare in 3/4 races.

I'm racing on a provisional at the moment so no points, just for experience.

Committed to two more then it's club runs and reliabilities while I decide whether to race people half my age to get to 3rd, or go down the LVRC route.

As Dragon says most races seem to be 3/4 anyway, so the only advantage in getting to 3rd is having the pick of E/1/2/3 races as well?

Just been thinking about what I just said; I can sum it up better with my whole life psychology - I'm just not comfortable with being average. Although in reality I probably am.

Ha, this sounds very familiar! I'm slowly getting accustomed to the idea here. With second kid on the way in a week or so, hitting 40 last year, niggling injuries, a fairly demanding job, and no time to train or race mean it's really not possible to be anything but. Going to have to be content with being average for a few years now.

As Dragon says most races seem to be 3/4 anyway, so the only advantage in getting to 3rd is having the pick of E/1/2/3 races as well?

Which as a 3rd you're unlikely to get into either early season as the organiser will prioritise higher cats.

I had to google LVRC....I have a few years to go yet 😉 .....but in my mind racing in itself is a good motivation with the effect of getting fitter, quicker, stronger more healthy....and hopefully this will all pay off right into old age. I can go further, see more things in the world in less time.

If I can be as quick year on year then its a good and hopefully not too mis-guided feeling that age isn't yet catching up with me just yet.

All in, if you've got a good job, kids, life outside biking plus you're fit enough to race, then that's way above average. What about those with no job, no kids, not fit enough to even get on a bike?

That said I haven't done any crits yet and the vaguely sadistic intrigue might well wear off once I cross that start line 😉 The other sorts of races I've done don't sound anywhere near as tactical, intense or with so much etiquette.

K, forgive me and tell me to piss off but...

I used to be Cat2 and semi pro back in the day (late 80's/early 90's). Believe me I was average, very average, fit but average. My role was to get the sprinters to the last 5k then I could die a death, which I did on many many occasions and my results were shite because of it.
I loved riding, loved racing and loved being with my mates, loved the environment and loved the training and competition.. I call my self a grinder/rouleur (to this day), I can climb well but not fast, I'm no whippet and struggle(d) sometimes pulling off the front for any longer than 3-4 miles without anyone else taking the lead but I churned it out day in/weekends out.
I went through training regeimes and diets and mental training until it came out of my arse and sweat off my back, I tried everything to be at the front and bloody win something. Nearly every 4th/5th race I'd hatch a plan and pop off the front to see if I was "allowed" to win something, I got caught on every occasion and believe me it damaged me mentally. Even the team I was with hoped I would once be able to pull it off, but to this day I've only ever won some very low level races and for years then & after I'd beat myself up for "not making the best of what I had, or did" ALWAYS looking for another way of training and racing.. It was turmoil, ever decreasing circles and as time went on neopro's would turn up and the racing got harder and harder and I started to target races that were too technical for the young'uns, but still nothing..So I quit, the team folded and I went on my merry way.
I was glad because I could NOT fit all that in with a Job and a Bird and a House (which incidentally suffered because of the mental angst I emmitted). After 5 & 1/2 years at it I chose to give it all up and rideout on my own for "FUN". However that didn't last long, I gave up riding bikes very shortly after because I'd had enough of them, to me they became a tool of torture and the other riders just punisment junkies.

I stepped away and returned to sailing again.

Then, one day an old riding team mate called at my house (12years ago) and brought with him a spare bike and suggested we ride out in the New Forest. Ok I said and finally hopped back on much to his laughter and jibes as I adopted "the position" I'd not lost the feeling of riding nor the clunk of gear changes nor the wind on my forearms, but I had lost the mental angst that I carried around for years.
So, so I adopted a mild acceptance for riding again, used it as part of training for sailing fitness and windsurfing. As the wind and rain hit the coast I'd be out arsing around on the water with not a care in the world for riding. Gradually though the bug started to bite back and I have been riding consistantly and in mild training again for a number of years, however I only rideout with one mate now and only entered my first "race" (that being the SS event Charlie did last year) and had no intention of "racing" the fact that I'm a fit sod meant I pleased myself with riding in a group and assessing fitness again, it brought back some very mixed mental messages I can tell you.

I'm not one to say "back off" and "kick back" sod that, go for it, but please..

Do not beat yourself up over it.

Monologue over 😆

I used to be Cat2 and semi pro back in the day

forgive me and tell me to piss off but... that all seems rather excessive for a 2nd cat!

Dragon - I've been riding with the club rides for a year now.

MtbTomo and bikebuoy - thanks, that's helped with some perspective. I agree racing is a good motivator to be fit lose weight etc and that is a part reason to be doing it.

During the summer I did a long turn at a club ride at a constant 23/24mph, with some seriously good riders behind me. I felt good, fast and like I was doing a Job for the club. A while later while waited for a group we'd dropped, the chap behind patted me on the shoulder and said "good that, well done". I loved the recognition that I'd done something good on a bike and I guess that what drives me. I too am racing with the club in LVRC so as said, I will continue to learn my trade in the bunch, do my work for the team where appropriate and maybe one day I'll get a notable result against my name to grin about.

I guess one other thing that bothers me that despite a shortened rugby career, then so far 17years on bikes I've not anything to show Kryton Jnr's 1&2, the former is old enough to know I race and helps me / is exposed to the bikes but I've no idea how to explain why I having nothing to show for it. I guess I'll work it out.

Le Rouleur - exactly how I'd describe myself.

8.8 km in 14 minutes. So 25 30 for a 10 - two up?

I dont think that's quick enough really, not without a lot of nous...

But you do have plenty of things to show for it, enjoyment, fitness, team spirit. Remember there are normally something like 80 riders on a start line and only 1 can win.

Riding club runs for a year isn't all that long in the scheme of things. I still think at this time of year you'll get better fitness gains from club runs as opposed to one hour crits. Focus your attention on starting to race in March.

but I've no idea how to explain why I having nothing to show for it.

What dragon said. You have the enjoyment of riding and racing to show him (assuming you do actually enjoy it 😉 ). If you can instil that spirit into your kids then job done. It's a bit of a cliche but the taking part and the enjoyment of it is the most important thing whatever level you race at.

How old are you Kryton57?
There was a post about giving changes a little longer, I tend to agree. Personally I give it a year, if it goes pear shape I change the following year.
Also being happy to be a good average racer I don't bother with any systems. plans or devices. If I do I adapt them to suit myself.
I find just having the will power to really work when I am on my bike pays off, to the point of never wanting to sit on a wheel should it make life easier.
You've done LVRC haven't you? It's not an easier option as many think. Ride in the 40 years and up and you'll likely be racing a fair few 1st cats as there are no categories. The good thing is there are no points, so it's racing for the sake of racing.

forgive me and tell me to piss off but... that all seems rather excessive for a 2nd cat!

I dunno, there's quite a few 2nd Cats in the domestic pro scene now - riders on development programmes, riders coming up through the system, domestiques etc.

I was in a similar situation 10-12 years ago - had a good sponsorship deal (frame plus trade on parts), doing loads of racing both road and MTB at a good level (lower end of 1st, upper end of 2nd) but as bikebouy says, the effort and sacrifice needed to stay there is considerable. I was working shifts at the time so had loads of time to train, ride and race but eventually I looked back on another season of trawling up and down the country to National Series MTB races, getting top 20 in Expert MTB or mid pack in E/1/2 road at best and just thought "why?"

I mean, on the way up (Sport MTB and 3rd/2nd road), I'd won/placed a fair bit here and there but after a while the enjoyment just wasn't there anymore.

Now I'm back down at 3rd Cat, have nothing to prove anymore so I do about 5-6 races a year just for the fun of it. If it gets to the point where you're chasing the number on a licence, when you're "training" because you [b]have[/b] to train rather than because you want to just ride, that's the point to take a step back.

That said though, racing is not all about fitness at all, it's one of those skills that develops over time so don't get too disheartened early on.

Just reading with interest on the race prep and training side of things, kryton I know where you're coming from in wanting to get a good result to feel good about when so much of cycling is about racing. Is it important that the success comes from road racing? You're up against it if you're starting late in that game and there's other areas of riding you may be more competitive in, 24hr for ex where riders either side of 40 often put in good performances against younger riders and just a finish is impressive. fwiw, fair dues to you for having a go anyway. I'd be out the back of a 3/4 bunch pretty fast.

That said though, racing is not all about fitness at all, it's one of those skills that develops over time so don't get too disheartened early on

I think this echoes my earlier comment; it's not about horsepower, it's far more subtle...

My tip would be to race as much as you can after getting a decent base done, and soak it up, learn about racing, stop 'trying to win' and just race for the experience.

Then...

When you are confident racing here, when you think you are doing OK, take a trip to Belgium, a long weekend, and race a few of the little local races over there. You'll be amazed at how different it is, you'll be amazed at how fast you can actually ride and you'll learn a whole lot more.

Racing a bike isn't about being big, strong, powerful or having the best VO2 Max, it's about thinking.

It's not called chess on wheels for nothing.

Jameson I'm doing some mtb endurance (HONC, Bonty 24/12) solo as mtb is my background.

Oldgit I'm 41. Last few posts are very interesting, being quite insular I've not been very wise to others ability/training/knowledge, assuming my training would carry me through. Taking heed of crickeys para I think that's what I'll do - use this year as experience, going on the family holiday in August and come back and think if I want to continues the racing road bikes in 2015. Thanks for that.

Just in the immediacy based on the advice I was thinking perhaps then to miss the current series over the next three Saturdays and defer to a club ride each weekend to get some distance in my legs and practise some skills, use a SERRL event at the end of Feb as a warm up, then star proper with LVRC in mid march - thoughts on that and continuing my weekly turbo workouts - bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest....?

Remember Chris Carmichael built a career on training LA to win all those Tours yet never recommended EPO, blood transfusions, steroid creams and so on...

Just learn your craft.

I was in a similar situation 10-12 years ago - had a good sponsorship deal (frame plus trade on parts), doing loads of racing both road and MTB at a good level (lower end of 1st, upper end of 2nd) but as bikebouy says, the effort and sacrifice needed to stay there is considerable. I was working shifts at the time so had loads of time to train, ride and race but eventually I looked back on another season of trawling up and down the country to National Series MTB races, getting top 20 in Expert MTB or mid pack in E/1/2 road at best and just thought "why?"

That's pretty much where I was a couple of years ago, and I sure as **** never felt the pressure bikebouy did!

Surprised there are domestic pros in 2nd cat, plenty of folk with full time jobs seem to get to 1st/elite!

Remember Chris Carmichael built a career on training LA to win all those Tours yet never recommended EPO, blood transfusions, steroid creams and so on...

On saying the was training LA. According to Hamilton, Carmichael had very little, if anything, to do with training LA. LA's training involved lots and lots of illegal techniques coming from various European workers.

Surprised there are domestic pros in 2nd cat, plenty of folk with full time jobs seem to get to 1st/elite!

There aren't... most of the elite cats have jobs and the one's that don't get paid very little if anything, there are very few domestic pros that get paid enough to sustain themselves from bike racing alone. The only exception is Mansell's son, whose Dad paid his wage, he wasn't actually good enough to be paid any real money to ride his bike though.

most of the elite cats have jobs

It's not difficult to find time to train and do a full time job if training is your number one priority. When I was serious about running I'd either go early morning or lunchtime, then another run after work. If I had been cycling back then it would have been easy to find 3 or 4 hours a day for riding every day and do a full time job. Life did revolve around eating, sleeping and training though. Which was fine when I didn't have a demanding job, wife, kids, dog, a house with a seemingly endless list of jobs and chores that need doing.

bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest....?

If you've done the TCC plan then knocking it back a bit is probably a good idea. Did it a couple of years ago now and felt great at the end of it and had some good results. Then a couple of weeks later had a major overtraining style collapse.

Read your first post.
Skipped all in between.
You are just a crap rider.
😛
My 25 mile TT times are faster than that and you know how crap a rider I am.

bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest....?

To be honest, any non-elite rider attempting to follow generic training advice from a book (Joe Friel, Chris Carmichael, Edmund R Burke PhD etc) is asking for trouble.

Following a plan intended for a full time pro or following something that generalises it in an attempt to make it fit everyone or make it easier to read is a recipe for disaster.

Specific training sessions intended to get you to a certain goal need to be written specifically for you and take into account things like family/work commitments, past experience, how much training time you have, age, gender etc. Following something from a generic "sporting interest" book is virtually guaranteed to get you either nowhere or more probably, overtrained.

The books are useful from the point of view of a general interest in coaching, seeing what the pros do and so on but they're out of date quickly (eg most of the books talk about heart rate but everything now is geared more towards power) and the programmes detailed within them are too general to be of much use.

I assume that you are going out on regular chain gangs ?

Dales Rider, did you do yours after 3hrs of Sprint intervals on hills too or didn't you read that far?

Crazy-legs - CC's TCTP isn't for pro's. Its targetted at people like me. FWIW, I followed his Sportive plan ending in October last years and completed a Chilterns sportive solo (86m) in 6th. I am however, better suited to distance over power/speed.

It took me a couple or more seasons to hit my peak, and I was never that good!

1st 1-2 seasons are about learning IMO (and probably more - I gave up then) don't expect any results apart from tri/TT/mtb.

This

Just in the immediacy based on the advice I was thinking perhaps then to miss the current series over the next three Saturdays and defer to a club ride each weekend to get some distance in my legs and practise some skills, use a SERRL event at the end of Feb as a warm up, then star proper with LVRC in mid march - thoughts on that and continuing my weekly turbo workouts - bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest....?

..is what I've decided cynic-al. Lets face it, at my age and with only 2 years of road riding preceeded by 15 years of social MTB and at the age of 42 I'm no going to be that high up on the podium am I.

I'm going to keep on w 2/3 x Turbo and the club run to keep fit / the weight off.

completed a Chilterns sportive solo (86m) in 6th.

I'd keep that quiet, it's a bit like claiming you "won" a fun run.

As above, started at 45. First season was learning the racecraft. Second season is competing. Aim for consistent top third placings and practice sprinting. Cat 4 in London is a lot more competitive than many realise. You won't get out of Cat 4 without a sprint. Which makes any points I win so much more precious for this 69 kilo climber/domestique 😉

Kryton57 - Member

Dales Rider, did you do yours after 3hrs of Sprint intervals on hills too or didn't you read that far?

No rode about 7 miles to warm up. At my age its a fine line between warming up and wearing out. Also its the same with the cross racing 50 minutes racing 6 minutes warm up. I'll never make the podium, well maybe never, so its just about enjoyment. That said I nearly got 1st place a few weeks ago till they realised I was entered in the wrong Cat I had to go up into the "fast lads" class

You won't get out of Cat 4 without a sprint.

Can see this being very frustrating for those with a reasonably decent engine but not much of a sprint (i.e. me!)

Cat 4 [s]in London is a lot more competitive than many realise[/s] is full of people without much tactical awareness, who will chase down any breakaway whilst dragging the entire bunch with them. You won't get out of Cat 4 without a sprint

FTFY

how do I continue to train without killing myself.

I can't remember if i have said this before, but it apparently takes 3 seasons to be "good" at racing...i think its a combination of getting a good base, top end and experience. My 2nd season was a lot better than my first, 108 BC points / 25th 2nd cat in the UK but some way off my goal of getting my 1st cat as i had to take some time out of racing after getting Lymes disease, but i was able to race pros and full time riders by the end of the season without getting my arse handed to me on a plate. It takes time, patience, hard work (some nights i can't decide if i want to be sick or cry or both on the turbo), consistency and knowing WHAT to do in training otherwise its just a waste of time. It doesn't matter how fast you can ride solo for road racing, you just need the tactics, ability to suffer and instinct about where to ride in the bunch/moves to go with but this doesn't come over night. Or be a great tester and ride of the front to win 🙂

Don't underestimate base fitness - before i started racing i had no base but worked hard on getting one in 2012-13 and it made a massive difference to my racing and training.

I have altered my plans DG. I've ditched the next three weeks of cat 4 racing for weekend base work (for example, a relaxed Reliability ride on Sunday) and change my intervals/short rides to Tempo withs some short sprints / Russians thrown in.

I'm going to race as cat 4 at Gravesend late Feb as a measure and trial hanging with the group (in know my circuit PB) then back on the Threshold & sprints during the week with weekend club rides before LVRC starts on a March 16.

I've woken up to the fact that this is a learning year, and the best I can do is ride to improve my base, threshold and power in a manner that fits into my circumstances.

It could be of course, that I'm not designed to be a bike racer, not all of us are so ill just enjoy it at my own pace without stressing about my results, and if something noteworthy happens, that'd be nice 🙂

Which RT are you riding?

Old Portlians 100k.

Don't know that one, hope the wind is calmer than it is today though because that was a bloody grim couple of hours.
Bedford or Hemel RT for me, which ever is wind free!

Ah this is North Kent (knock holt) south to Crowborough and back. The wind will be on our backs on the way back, and we're riding as a club so well all be able to rest in from time to time.

Ok, so I've lined myself up a local crit in March....

What's the etiquette on mechanical failures or punctures when riding in a bunch? Are there any calls that I need to know, aside from trying to exit the bunch safely?

Assuming I'll even be with the bunch....

Ever the optimist eh!?

When I've flatted in a bunch I put my hand up and called 'puncture', then just eased off, people drift round you.

Thanks Njee, that's what I thought would be sensible but just checking.

I don't want to upset any of these serious cat 4 racers 😉

You'll possibly be allowed a lap out for a mechanical, so jump on your spare bike (you do have a spare, right?) and the commissaire will feed you back in.

In reality I'm not sure how that works out, in my limited experience I only have to switch off for a second or two then I'm off the back with and struggling to close the gap!

[url= http://www.twickenhamcc.co.uk/tcc/race-report-apres-wacky-races-cat4-race2/ ]Cat4 no more.[/url]

There's a development race at Hillingdon this Saturday, if anyone fancies it.

Well done. Any full results about? Just watching with interest how some people are doing.

In reality I'm not sure how that works out, in my limited experience I only have to switch off for a second or two then I'm off the back with and struggling to close the gap!

You roll along out of the way as if you were being lapped. Then you leap on the back, not into the bunch.

Well done Tired. The most telling piece of your write up for me was [i]"this was my 35th race"[/i]. I've a way to go, after having a horrible day in an LVRC race yesterday.

I went into it knowing nothing, and therefore not realising I'd be racing with veteran Elites. My interval training was going well, but last weekend I'd had a bed ridden throat virus, not riding until Wednesday and feeling light headed after a ride. I thought I could get away with it.

I warmed up for 20 mins pre race feeling conscious I was the only one doing so. Sat on the start, flag went down, clipped in and... BANG. A searing pain from my left quad. I rode for three laps in pain, got dropped on the second then before starting the 4th DNF'd to prevent further injury.

Having ridden for 11 minutes I felt pretty low driving home tbh, and in what is only my 2nd race need to leave it behind, get well and start again. 🙁

LVRC, yep lots of Elites/1st/2nd's in that lot.

I spent all last summer racing E1234 at Hillingdon (Wednesday evenings after work). It's a great place to learn how to handle a bike. Smooth fast riding on a predictable course. They don't do crashing. I'm sure LVRC is no different. Every race was won by an Elite rider, but over the course of 12 races I went from back of the pack to mid/top third (and a BC point!). And aiming for top third in ANY race would be the limit of my expectations. Anything else is a bonus.

Keep at it. I warmed up because I was conscious of a three a man group putting the hammer down when I wasn't warm the week before, and I just couldn't bridge to them. I don't normally bother, just spin around the circuit for a few laps.

The result at Brighton can be confusing. If you go off the front and rejoin the pack you win! No sprint required But if three go off the front, and rejoin the back, then there seems to be a sprint for position 123. I did better last week than I thought because I was overtaken in the sprint by someone contesting 123. Results are all listed on the BC website, but Brighton often take a while to decode the photo finish.

New bike time! (Propel Advanced frame) 😀

Nice one Tired.

I warmed up for 20 mins pre race feeling conscious I was the only one doing so

Ignore the others, put ipod on and zone out.

As for the rest, chin up. Racing is mentally tough, maybe even more so than physically tough. I had a bad race last Saturday, an attack went, i went to go with it, legs just didn't work and my injuries complained a lot, I missed the break, spent 20mins on my own and then got caught with 3 laps to go!! I'm struggling with 7 months of injury and rehab which has reduced my power a lot, i have some dark days when i wonder if its all worth it, knowing i'm way off form and yet racing week in week out. Woke up the next day for a RR. Didn't know if i could even face racing after such a bad performance the day before but went onto have a great race, slightly mucking up the sprint finish but got 4th, just pipped for 3rd by literally nothing. Good days, bad days, happens to everyone. Good thing about RR is there's always another one next week. 🙂

Thanks Dg and Tired. The last few days go have put things into perspective. Turns out I was racing against Bob Downs! No chance!

Bob Downs! No chance!

Was that the Baines RR? Missed it this year. Rode it last year against Bob and in the snow, racing is potty.
How old are you then if you're in Bobs age band.

Hey Kryton....just done my first crit this morning. Probably fitter than I've ever been, been on some long group rides, turbo sessions etc etc.....

And ping, straight off the back 2nd or 3rd lap. Got lapped twice (maybe three times?).

But it was a good experience and I'll be doing a few more. A long long way to go to hang with the bunch but its a good excuse for "needing" more fancy kit 😉

Demoralized??? Not a chance!

Where was that mtbtomo?