[Closed] How long to be a credible Cat 4 or am I just crap (road content)

Icky!!

Turned a failing road season around. Helped with a Pyrenean training trip and hanging onto the youngsters fast Sunday rides. CX off to a flying start. And lightest I've been for over 25 years. Whoopee here....sorry

Think you misunderstand the general theme of the thread there oldgit 😀

I gained a grand total of .... 0, yes that's zero points as my first season being a 3rd cat.

In fairness, I didn't race much and all but two of them were 234's or 23's. Still it a distinctly unimpressive season you've got to admit.

However: I got first place in a Gorrick 4hr SS race, and am doing ok so far in the cross season so actually I'm feeling just fine.

Road racing, well crits mainly, seem to be won by the sneaky sprinters who do nothing to make it an exhilarating race for us all on a Sunday morning then kipper us on the final 100m. Bollocks to that! Off-road, we all have to dig deep into the world of pain (and skill, praise the lord!)

Good thread.

Vive la dirt.

Tod be fair, there's an awful lot of skill in sitting invisibly in the bunch until the final 100m.

Just ask Simon Gerrans.

I agree there is a lot of skill in it, but my god it's boring for the rest of us.

I might end up in London for work. Let me know if you guys are racing at Hillington.

Who's still racing then?

Still two months to get those points!

Who's still racing then?

Sitting at home sweating and shivering with a virus, MSG last round and Octoberfest cancelled 🙁

Its all about next year now, I may give Hillingdon winter series a bash if I can get 6 weeks of good riding in beforehand, more for a fitness indicator than the hope of any points.

No Brass Monkeys...?

Had my first "season" - in the loosest possible sense - this year, with the grand total of one club TT and one club hill climb. Not sure it counts in the context of this thread, but I achieved my lofty goals of not being last in either 🙂

Serious question though. I have NO IDEA how to pace myself in even the shortest of TTs. I'm not currently that fit but can churn out the miles, more so on the hilly stuff (where I get a downhill rest) than the flat. Earlier in the Summer I did some roller races and managed to do OK suggesting I have some power but anything more than a minute or so of effort and I've had it. I don't really know where to start to build up the stamina when working harder, how much to back off etc. I don't get that many opportunities to ride due to family and feel like the cobwebbed turbo is my first port of call if I want to be a bit more competitive next year (which I do).

Thoughts, or have I wondered into the wrong thread? 🙂

My first real moderately regular season of racing mostly road and track. Punctuated by bouts of injury and ennui it was nevertheless overall a success. Got 27 points all on the track, so seem to have avoided being upgraded to the 2s, which is a good thing as I'd be seriously out of my depth on the road there. Speaking of out of my depth - masters track worlds this week, gulp....

Weather has turned, supposed to be racing on Sat, not sure if I've got the balls to be racing in the rain and I don't like the cold either!!!

^ Somebody else will be along shortly to give you actual advice, I mainly just go out and thrash myself. Riding with other racers also helps. My power is best described as inadequate though...

Tortoise - yes, turbo is your best bet - do a 20 minute ftp test while measuring at least hr (if not power). That's a good place to start TT pacing, then depending on distance, course and experience you will develp a better feel of it from there. Finding that sort of 90% (ish) level of going really hard but not absolutely 'balls out explode in a ball of flames in a minute' hard is critical.

Thanks Sam. I think I knew that was the answer and is at least something I can do whilst the kids are in bed and the wife is out.

I surprised myself at enjoying the couple of TTs I did, but felt a little disappointed finishing with plenty left in the tank.

I surprised myself at enjoying the couple of TTs I did, but felt a little disappointed finishing with plenty left in the tank.

Mostly experience! The more you do the better you'll get. Power meters can be a handy short cut for race pacing when you are starting out, even more useful for training with though.

Turbos are a great bet if you can't get out. Try and get out when you can though as road and turbo are very different efforts.

masters track worlds this week, gulp....

Sam, best of luck!

There are 4 crit races at Lancaster (Salt Ayre circuit) throughout October so I might try one or two of them. First one is this Saturday which is also the Mills Hills CX Sportive. Wondering which to do although if the weather is bad, the easy answer is "neither of them"!

#fairweathercyclist

mrblobby - Member
No Brass Monkeys...?

Yep, I'm in for the 4hrs.

Good luck with the track Sam. Never something i've fancied doing really. No doubt it works though. A friend has just gained his Elite license and puts alot of his form down to a winter of track racing.

Kryton - Surely Velopark winter series might be better? It's a better circuit (imo)

Its closer yes, I can ride there in 20mins rather than take the car. But 100 Cat4's per race on that circuit was a crashfest last year, having survived 4 races with crashes in and one at least at HH with Carbon and Garmins flying around my ears waiting for the bang, I don't fancy that TBH.

Lol, I see on the BC page they've not indicated "places remaining" this year - possibly for that very reason...

Well I finally returned to racing after my crash, did just enough to get the rest of the points I needed to retain my 2nd cat. I had a hard job bouncing back into racing, I’d spend the first 30mins – hour convincing myself to stay in the race, my positioning was awful – normally I’d ride near the front but since the crash I was in was at the front of the bunch, my brain has decided it is better to hang around at the back and no amount of talking to myself would convince me to move up, even though it was killing me sprinting out of the corners and no wheels to fall back through on climbs. My shoulder is still injured but confidence is coming back slooooowlly. TTs are looking a bit more appealing at the moment 😐

Managed to make the break in the first race I did, cramped or strained a muscle in the final 10mins, tried to recover sitting at the back of the break soft pedaling with one leg (not easy on a hilly course), managed to bring it round with about 400m to go which was too late for a downhill and tailwind sprint finish, hung on to take 6th trying to go for the sprint with one leg.

Raced again the day after it, got new 1 min, 5min and 20min power pbs racing with the men on a hilly course, got dropped, got back on, got dropped, got back on and repeat for 92kms with savage cross and headwinds, and it rained too. Took 4th woman and 24th overall as the sprint went from the final corner all uphill for almost 1km and I was totally spent. Bit disappointed, normally capable of a better result on that course but riding at the back just took too much out of me.

Raced again the following weekend with the men and the junior RR champs. Horrific race, the juniors were mega twitchy, lots of crashes, horse riders on the course causing one crash just in front of me. Not nice seeing a friend down and trying to miss him as I braked and steered into the grass. Then there was a running race on the same course, more crashes, more horses, more hills. Decided after the race to pack in racing for the season and focus on shoulder rehab as it hurts to climb.

Here's to a better 2016!

First Crit today, Salt Ayre 3/4. No idea where I finished (out the arse basically!) but I found myself on the grass about 4-5 corners from the finish which isn't ideal! Saved it with my ****ing mad ninja skillz but had to chase back on and came round the last corner in a Bad AIDS style position. Such is life. Last lap was @ 30mph so got to be happy I didn't end up on my arse!

I felt completely drained after Torq in your Sleep, did a low intensity week and decided I might as well break early with nothing to train for for the rest of the season. I've done my 4 weeks off to recharge and get my life back. Thing is I rather like having life back and am not exactly champing at the bit to ride.

Restarted this week with some Z2 and Z3 turbo work. Nice to do some exercise, also nice to do hour long sessions and still see the family.

Hopefully I'll start feeling more competitive and selfish shortly.........

So i've had a few weeks off the bike and getting back into it again, anyone else getting back on it again?

I've managed to find a new chaningang running all winter (behind old Airport in Sheffield Wednesday 6.30pm, if anyone is local) which should be good to build into the training and keep the legs turning over.

First local report - Cat 3's in the 3/4 chasing Cat 3 taking all the points, multiple crashes.

Sigh. Not sure I'm aloud in here anymore, I'm 100% racing MTB this next year...

enjoying my first season of CX racing (well, any racing) and mixing it with the guys who race from my local club who raced road this year I am seriously considering trying road racing next year.

This thread is useful for "managing expectations" 😉

Had a few weeks of riding without any plan. Was nice just having a bit of fun on the bike. Did a fair bit of xc which I'd not done in ages. Back on it now.

Going to have a crack at the 2hr Brass Monkeys rounds to keep things interesting over winter. Should be entertaining as I've not raced xc in a very long time. Expect a "what's it all about" thread soon 🙂

I am seriously considering trying road racing next year.

Practice your sprint! Might have another go at it next year, feels a bit like unfinished business, though was a bit of a half arsed silly distraction this year (I blame this thread!)

feels a bit like unfinished business,

Me too. Can't afford the replacement bike or injury list though. MTB is much safer... 😉

You're probably right! I think XC is building up to be my silly distraction this year 😕

Quick note to say if you plan on racing at Hillingdon this winter, then you will need to be quick! The[url= http://www.imperialracingteam.com/events.html? ] Imperial Winter Series[/url] is now open. These races fill up very fast. In fact the first race was sold out in less than two days!

I'm in for the E12/3 races and may ride the Cat 4 race as a rolling Com. There is a much better selection of ladies races too this season.

I raced three E123 National B races over the past three weeks. Dropped in all three (first was absolutely brutal). But I finished all of them and achieved 13th in GC (OK, out of 13, but progress on last year). Resting for November due to a wrist op next week. Then sprint training through the winter.

Kryton was that at Velopark? Most of the 3's chasing points are close to second Cat by now. So racing will be VERY competitive in any 3/4 race.

EDIT: Just checked and the first two IWC 4th cat races are sold out, the third is almost sold out as well.

I'm about as unfit as I've been in the 15 years I've been riding properly I'd say! Officially a master next year, can't decide whether to change (for those races that still have a masters race). Will be doing the 2 hour brass monkeys, or at least the first one, Bordon's a lot of fun!

It was indeed Tired, indeed one of ours made Cat 2 in that race after starting as Cat 4 at the beginning of this year.

Njee your presence reminds me...

Enjoy your health while you have it. Had a month off then restarted. At the end of my first 3 week block suffered really bad heart arrhythmia (a missed beat every 3-5 beats). Something I've had for 20years but never exercised induced and never so bad.

ECG normal again but borderline low thyroid function which can be a contributory factor. Referred to cardiologist as a precaution but also signed off for Z2 training. Withdrawn from Brass Monkeys (which I had great plans for) but things seem to be settling with 3 days Z2 and back to normal.

First Imperial Winter Series Race this afternoon. Fourths looked competitive. The E12/3 was hard. Windy. Very windy. Achieved a mid-pack sprint and my first Normalized Power of 301W.

Onto next week.

Series of Saturday morning races in Feb round an airfield at Abingdon coming up. Someone talk me out of it please!

Get stuck in Blobby, there are a few locals already preentered (including a sertain shop owner who's also a 4th cat so you have someone to scrap with) for the series, hopefully I'll be at one or two!!!

I did notice he's signed up. Assumed it was an admin error 😉

lol, see you there!

Hillingdon this weekend to get through first...

Local to me so I'm giving it a go. Don't do club rides, haven't ridden in a bunch and no race sense but I've good power and pointy elbows. CAAD10 and a Belkin top.

Only kidding, I thought about it for a nano second before I realised I'd need to do a few months of club riding etc and even then I like my limbs in one piece.

Sounds like you'd fit right in 🙂

CAAD10 and a Belkin top.

Not allowed replica kit are you? Never used to be.

Stourport 123 for me, first of 4 next weekend.

That came around quick!

Mrblobby, let me know if you need a domestique for anything local! 18months later, I remembered I have a bike (even if it is currently just riding around Watopia and Richmond 😀 ) and am still crit-curious 🙂

Holy thread resurrection !
Thought I'd post on here instead of starting a new one. Seen as the TT season has finished for me I fancied having a bash at my first crit before the weather turns so entered the "points grabber" held at salt ayre in Lancaster last Saturday. 40 odd turned up for the 3/4 cat so it made for a exciting race shall we say 😯 My main aim was to not come off or get spat out of the back so was happy when I crossed the line mid pack. Would've been quite a bit higher but a couple of incidents on the last lap made a mess of this. Three corners from the finish I was positioned ok (I think) when some guy came barrelling up the inside of me, forcing me wide that caused me to loose several places. Managed to manoeuvre myself back into a half decent position again and was all set for the sprint at the finish. Trouble was as I started to wind it up on the last corner a guy who tried to do a solo break at the bell gave up and decided to sit up in front of me, forcing me to brake and let loads past. Still, I got round in one piece but I've got a lot to learn. Because I wanted to keep near the front so I could keep an eye on things I found myself AT the front far to much. In fact I made the schoolboy error of dragging everyone round for a lap near the end instead of hiding and saving my energy 🙄
There's one more race this Saturday that I might have another go at but it's certainly wetted my appetite to give them a good go next year (TT's allowing)

I find making myself as wide as possible, glancing over my shoulder and drifting slightly in is enough to deter most of the dive-bombers...still there's always one or two who are persistent.

Top dozen riders is a decent position particularly early on, if any goes you'll be in a good position to grab a wheel if a few try to bridge. If you're on a sprint finish top 6 should keep you out of the wind until you need to go. If you find yourself on the front then turn it down a bit, someone will always get excited and come through

In fact I made the schoolboy error of dragging everyone round for a lap near the end instead of hiding and saving my energy

Surely just look knackered and slow up in this situation which encourages other people to pass?

Surely just look knackered and slow up in this situation which encourages other people to pass?

In fact I made the schoolboy error of dragging everyone round for a lap near the end instead of hiding and saving my energy

Spot the Tester 😆

Don't worry some never learn.

Spot the Tester

🙂

As a tester dabbling in road racing, I tried a few last year. Didn't have the time to follow up on it this year unfortunately. Took me a couple of races to get comfortable sitting in the pack.

Sat it and waited for the sprint the first couple of races but was really rubbish at that. Second race I actually got into a pretty decent position for the last corner, but I'd never realised just how long it took me to actually start sprinting (probably my most obvious tester tell!) Definitely something I would practice and improve a lot on if I was to have a proper go at it.

The other couple of times I raced I tried a break which ultimately led to being a solo effort, and with some pretty decent tester pace I got close, but it's hard to hold off a bunch of 40 guys to the line. Seemed like half the pack was riding for a sprint finish, and the other half depressingly resigned to the fact that it's always a sprint finish.

I used to live in Lancaster, I raced at Salt Ayre loads.

That final corner, the 180 left hander is difficult to get correct. On the final lap, everyone is doing 2-3mph quicker than at any other time but usually they fail to correct for that extra speed so they end up drifting wide - this then leaves gaps on the inside which people will try and divebomb. Meanwhile the poor guys on the outside have been forced off onto the grass as everyone drifts wide.

The technique for it is to turn in later but you need to be up the front to actually make that line choice - if you're in the middle of the pack you have no choice but to follow everyone else's wheels.

If you are mid-pack, stay on the left: it's a tighter turn/shorter radius and you'll avoid being spat out on the right. The downside is you'll be leant over more and you absolutely cannot pedal in the turn at all otherwise you will catch the inside pedal and that'll take half the bunch down.

instead of hiding and saving my energy

That's a sprinters trick that is 😉 So if you haven't got a sprint (I haven't) then I find you can save all the energy you like and it will make 3/5 naff all difference when the lads with quads the size of Chris Hoy wind up.

Speaking of which.....are sprinters in 3/4 races hitting the gym over winter and/or are they naturally built for the sprint?

Feels like I'm stuck between not having the power to weight for hilly courses and not having the outright power when it comes to a sprint on the flat.

What have all the other road racers got planned for winter?

Started at the gym a couple of weeks ago, having neglected any specific strength training for my entire life I figure that a few months in the gym will help get me to the line with a bit more in the tank.

Don't particularly consider myself an out and out sprinter but it's where most my points come from.

Most races around here aren't all that hilly so absolute power probably counts more than W/Kg, most of the climbs can be wrestled up.

2nd cat for next year.

Since you're a tester, yourmistake was to not go for a breakaway with 10 minutes to go, and time trial to glory. Very nearly worked for me on Sunday at our club champs. stayed away for three miles and caught with 100m to the line.

Forget keeping your powder dry and attack properly!

I'm still struggling with the probability involved with time trialling to glory....even at a decent TT pace, a bunch with riders rotating at the front has to be pretty shonky not to be able to pull back a lone rider?

Even the totally disorganised bunch I was in on Sunday pulled back the lone break rider. Without anyone really wanting to do any work at all on the front.

It's tough to win solo from distance, even a cat 4 pack of 40 odd riders will be going much faster on the last couple of laps than you'll be able to go solo, especially with a carrot to chase. You have to time it right, get a big enough gap early enough, and get a bit lucky. If you can team up with one or two others you have a much better chance, but you're much less likely to be allowed a gap late in the race.

50:50 sometimes, it depends on the bunch behind, if they're willing to chase or if they're too disorganised and no-one wants to work. Timing is everything.

Thing is, if you know you can't sprint and you'll lose out in a bunch sprint scenario, you've got nothing to lose by going for a lone attack in the last few laps. A lot of the time you'll be caught, chewed up and spat out but just occasionally you can hang on in there if not for a lone win at least to be caught on the line and still score a few points.

Depends just how disorganised they are. I've seen elites screwing up a chase by just being disorganised. Just need one rider not doing a proper §turn and it all goes to pieces. Even more annoying when they *don't* have a team mate up the road and it's not deliberate.

In the 3/4 races I've done this season, I haven't yet seen one organised effort. People either want to sit on the front and do a big turn or act like a hero and hang themselves 20 or 30 yards off the front putting out the watts but ultimately wasting their time 🙄

Its best when other riders roll up to the front, give it all the chat about needing to work together and then promptly disappear back into the bunch 🙄

In my experience it's usually a well organised chase that shuts down breakaways, just a couple of guys who work their nuts off then are nowhere to be seen. Whilst it might be folk chasing something down for a team mate I know for a fact that sometimes it's just someone getting too excited and wasting their energy.

Mainly because I've been that guy.

Prob(win) = small number(TT effort) + 0(sprint) I'm not a sprinter. 3/4 races are seldom organised. And sometimes you might be joined by another hero. Never stop trying. WWJD?

What would Jens do?