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Considering going for the KOM at the local flat 800 m tarmac track where the 180 degree corners in each end are around 250 meters. On 25 mm Conti 5000s, soon 5000 TLz.
To get the KOM i need to average more than 55.2 km/h (looks like it was taken on an ebike but whatever), is that a safe cornering speed for such a corner? I'd need to pedal through the corners so I'm also limited by lean angle.
This is something I don't have a good feel for never having raced. Guess I could measure my max lean angle and as long as going over it and 45 degrees I'd be fine? (also as long as there's no rubble on the tarmac..).
Can someone rec a pair of aero elbow and shoulder pads?
Sheldon Brown has looked into it https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/descending.html
Says 35 degrees is about max when pedaling?
I’ve ground pedals down in races by leaning through bends and pedalling out. About 40 km/hr. But 32mph is a very fast corner. Slower if you have some straight sections, but you’ll be struggling to keep that speed for any average. You need TT aero and won’t want to corner aero at that speed!
Just wear MTB pads, keep going til you slide, get up try again.
Re pedalling through corners, you don't just scratch the pedals - if you're leant over enough then pedalling will kick your back wheel up in the air which will of course cause you to instantly lose the back end. This is why I don't pedal through fast corners any more 🙂
You need TT aero and won’t want to corner aero at that speed!
I have the power and I'm aero enough without TT bars (CdA calculated to 0.25 in a skin suit, 1 min avg power 904 watts on a fanbike bit less on the road), but yeah, don't want to slam into tarmac at 55 km/h as I prefer my bones unbroken.
Maybe I should just let this one go.. cost vs benefit ratio doesn't look very good here
don’t want to slam into tarmac at 55 km/h as I prefer my bones unbroken.
You won't break anything. You'll just slide, and if you wear full MTB pads you'll get up and be fine, seriously. This won't be cheap mind, unless you already own a load of pads 🙂
Maybe I should just let this one go.. cost vs benefit ratio doesn’t look very good here
You think.
Cost - damages to bike, clothing, skin
Benefit - ummm, errr, nope, nothing
Or you could just have a go and see how far you are off the KOM without going stupid in the corners?
The corners are each 250m? You'll be able to pedal flat out.
The corners are each 250m? You’ll be able to pedal flat out.
My thoughts as well. The corners on a standard athletics track are just over 100 metres for example.
Curious why you think 56kph must be an ebike.
That's not wild on a flat track. Even less so if they were 2 or 3 or 6 up working together- such as many KOMs are achieved these days on the road.
You could also watch this
The GCN video on this is rubbish I did watch it: no speed, no corner angle/length and the guy just decided to fall of on purpose at the end. Plus it's about cornering without pedaling (pedaling upsets balance a lot).
The corners are each 250m? You’ll be able to pedal flat out.
At least 200 meters, yes they're long. Seems I'm not likely to slam into the ground, what's more likely is pedal strikes and then being ejected off the track.
Curious why you think 56kph must be an ebike.
No power, no HR, but more suspicious is that his username is "XXX with an ebike", people have tried to flag it in the past but it still stands. Of course you could get it naturally given that the corners won't kill ya even without and special gear or drafting.
Maybe a different approach?
1 min avg power 904 watts
No one spotted this typo?
https://www.strava.com/segments/630235
Have a good read. A lot of bunch race times here. Nobody has gone under 2:00 in 2020 where there have been no races (yet).
Some very fast hpv times.
I know I can corner fast enough that if I tried to pedal I would be hitting the inside pedal on the ground
No one spotted this typo?
Is it a typo, or does he actually believe that...
Does body position matter as much on a road bike as on an mtb
So you believe it can be taken naturally but your worried about falling over in corners.......
I'd be more worried about getting an asbo offf the velominati for your irregular freehub sound
No one spotted this typo?
They are beginning to BeLiEvE, anyways i said it was on a fanbike (just pedaling)
Haven't really gotten to try it properly on the roadbike as the only 1 minute long straightish hill around here is on the other side of town sadly, but reckon I could do 800 watts at least, have done 745w on straights.
I’d be more worried about getting an asbo offf the velominati for your irregular freehub sound
That's all in the past, got the glorious Newmen Fade hub, 100% satisfied. Melted the DT350 into an aluminum block.
Catching pedals in crits is a problem. Our local one has a sweeping fast bend. It's short so strava not that reliable but it suggests 70kph is possible.
https://www.strava.com/segments/2865355
If memory serves, dedicated crit riders, like fixie riders run short cranks to minimise the chances of this.
They held the national TT on roads near me a few years ago. Some great segments appeared that give you an idea how fast people can ride through corners.
https://www.strava.com/segments/18059154
https://www.strava.com/segments/17987167?filter=overall
The first is a cheeky chicane. And the second a simple bend. Closed roads so they could use the full width. Swept road that they will have ridden in practice but not a good surface.
Given rogue don't have a model with a PM your data is spurious at best
If memory serves, dedicated crit riders, like fixie riders run short cranks to minimise the chances of this.
Don't start him off on that - guessing next thread title "What 140mm cranks arms are most aero"
What narrow(aero) pedal for Max lean angle on my pointless non achievements perhaps ?
When tts restart get on it get a real measure over a proper distance and not a few hundred m
Given rogue don’t have a model with a PM your data is spurious at best
Doubt I can put out the power eyh? See if I can borrow some powermeter pedals and we can test how close it is (anyone want to ship me some? :>, I reckon it's fairly accurate as the echo bike is known to be the stingiest of all the fanbikes (airdyne, assbike etc) with its watts and my sub 10 second power on the road aligns well with what I can do on it.
What narrow(aero) pedal for Max lean angle on my pointless non achievements perhaps ?
Speedplays.
Until you fit the cleat of course
Nah, worst you'll likely do is your shoe hitting the ground first, and if you hit the cleat it's nice and rounded + AERO WOOT.
When tts restart get on it get a real measure over a proper distance and not a few hundred m
Or if only fast over a few hundred metres then get yourself to a track and do some sprint races, kilos, kierin etc,. where your short bursts of immense power will be giving you something more worthwhile that some suspect starve segments.
You need to think about the demands of racing a fast lap. It’s not about consistent power like an indoor velodrome with banked turns. It’s more on and off power. So use your 900 watts to get you to the first corner ease off through the corner then back on as you pass the apex then repeat for all 4 corners.
Give it a try you will learn a lot from your first few laps. Pick a dry day. Play with your tyre pressures to get them optimal. Let us know how you get on.
I would have thought your lean angle will be dictated by the fact that you intend to keep pedalling. You won't therefore be leaning enough to risk sliding out. Even with your aero Speedplays.
Good luck finding those pedals. They’re discontinued. I managed to find a set on eBay last year. No cleats yet. This is for the aeroz in the trike.
You don’t need a PM. I’d it’s a closed circuit you can estimate power pretty accurately for time. And time is what you are after. I’ve done this a LOT to test equipment.
pointless non achievements
It's not pointless. It's just done for the hell of it, which is the only reason we do any of our recreational biking. Some people like setting themselves arbitrary challenges - and why not?
OP get out there and see what you can do with your bike as stock. And for the record, I also doubt your 1m power 🙂
if you’re leant over enough then pedalling will kick your back wheel up in the air which will of course cause you to instantly lose the back end.
I've done this quite a few times on my commuter, rear wheel just steps out an inch or two and re-grips - scares the crap out of me, but never come off..
I also doubt your 1m power 🙂
Going to hit the only > 1 min hill here in Berlin soon, so we shall see - 904 watts on the echo bike is not easy. Garmin connect shows 745 watts on the flats with the roadbike never having really tried for max 1 min on it, guesstimate >850 watts sprinting up a hill.
So you're putting out more power over 20s than an elite sprinter like Viviani?
Not 100% convinced either tbh.
This is highly optimistic, too:
You won’t break anything. You’ll just slide, and if you wear full MTB pads you’ll get up and be fine, seriously.
You hit a wall on the side of the road (or worse, slide into an armco support leg) at 55km/h and you'll be seriously hurting. Pads or no pads.
So you’re putting out more power over 20s than an elite sprinter like Viviani?
Ahaha love the doubters! Elite (track) sprinters have way more power than I, 1000 watts over 1 minute for sure and > 2200 watts peak.
It's not so hard to believe I can outpower Viviani (probably measured at the end of a 3 hr race) with fresh legs at 88 kg bw, I aim and train to get to 1000 w 1 min and 2000 w peak power. Not as ambitious with FTP, but > 300 w would be nice :> Watts/kg? Forget it.
Hang on - are any of these power figures you’re quoting with some kind of power metre or are they all on a stationary bike / out of Garmin Connect estimates?
They all sound really really high to me but I’m no expert on the subject.
To get more pedalling in around the corners, you need to master the art of "wiggling" the bike a little more upright with each inside pedal stroke. This way, you are mostly leaned over more than possible while pedalling, but still have clearance for the inside pedal.
Aero elbow and shoulder pads? You got me there. Maybe try motorcyle leathers?
The OP is Geex with a new login and I claim my £5 (or 5 Watts as I could do with them)
Garmin is from the 4iii crank based powermeter (if anything they are a bit low as my left leg is weaker). I don't think they're that high, high is >2000 watts peak and 1000 watts 1 minute for someone my weight.
Is Yohandsome the new DavidTaylforth? Smells like trolling to me!
🙄😉
The OP has asked something similar in the past. I seem to remember him asking about getting a KOM back on a bridge.
Here we go - https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/too-fast-for-strava-please-explain-why-this-activity-should-not-be-flagged/ and if you look at the top ten for the segment ( https://www.strava.com/segments/17299911 ) then he put out 728W for just under 30s.
When you look at his ride history he does seem fixated on certain routes and segments.
I have since gotten stronker 💪
You hit a wall on the side of the road (or worse, slide into an armco support leg) at 55km/h and you’ll be seriously hurting. Pads or no pads.
I got the impression the corner in question is on a flat purpose built track so is likely to have no obstacles to hit.
I got the impression the corner in question is on a flat purpose built track so is likely to have no obstacles to hit.
Yes, it's in a field, worst you'll hit is some shrubbery or rollerblading berliners (jk wouldnt do it when there are other ppl on track).
11.36 w/kg for one minute is absolutely world class - well done! It doesn't seem to match up well with < 3.5W/kg FTP though?
This is interesting:
https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2018/06/how-does-your-cycling-power-output-compare
puts you in about the 99.9 percentile I think.
I got the impression the corner in question is on a flat purpose built track so is likely to have no obstacles to hit.
Ah, fair enough! In that case I still think it'll hurt, but not as much 🙂
11.36 w/kg for one minute is absolutely world class
Wait what, even with the (prob not fully transferable) fanbike result of 904w / 88 kg = 10.27 w/kg tops. It'll take a second to get to avg 1000 w in 1 minute..
Track sprinters often have abysmal FTPs and optimize for around 1 minute efforts (the kilo)
For all we know Yohandsome could be this guy...he doesn't skip leg day.
Track sprinters often have abysmal FTPs and optimize for around 1 minute efforts (the kilo)
Which is why I suggested getting yourself to a track for some proper competition rather than pissing about on little Strava segments.
Just try it and report back. Even if you fail miserably (but heroically!) it will still be interesting.
I don’t think they’re that high, high is >2000 watts peak and 1000 watts 1 minute for someone my weight.
Don't put yourself down like that. They are high, so you're clearly at international pro level. Well done.
Don’t put yourself down like that. They are high, so you’re clearly at international pro level. Well done.
Thanks, but to be at international pro level you also need a high FTP for a road cyclist or higher numbers for a track sprinter.
and I’m aero enough without TT bars (CdA calculated to 0.25 in a skin suit
I'd have to question teh aeroz too, I know you're on an aero bike and in a skin suit but if you're heaving on the bars to generate those watts and potentially throwing yourself about through corners you'll struggle to maintain such a slippery shape on the bike surely... Maybe if you were using clip-ons?
I say just have a go and report back. Your KOM hunting is sort of intriguing, did you ever score that bridge segment?
Thanks, but to be at international pro level you also need a high FTP for a road cyclist or higher numbers for a track sprinter.
Sign up free to https://power-meter.cc/home and let it look at your power data, it will tell you which of four profiles you are, among other stats.
It has me down a TTer, which as much as I'm hardly world class, I tend to do a lot better in Zwift TT events than races.
Thanks, but to be at international pro level you also need a high FTP for a road cyclist or higher numbers for a track sprinter.
Pursuit it is then.
I’d have to question teh aeroz too, I know you’re on an aero bike and in a skin suit but if you’re heaving on the bars to generate those watts and potentially throwing yourself about through corners you’ll struggle to maintain such a slippery shape on the bike surely… Maybe if you were using clip-ons?
I say just have a go and report back. Your KOM hunting is sort of intriguing, did you ever score that bridge segment?
The way to do it is to sprint (standing) up to your target speed, then for 1 min or longer segments hit the segment at that speed hunkering down in an aero drops or even hoods position depending on your mobility (drops with back straight is marginally faster but a lot less comfy and it can be hard to put the power down).
Yeah I did get the bridge and other segments around here, I'll go Berlin's most contested climb soon Teufelsberg - 7% and just a bit longer than 1 min which isn't ideal for my BW but will be a fun challenge.
n0b0dy0ftheg0at: thanks, think it's fairly clear I'm closest to a track sprinter like slowoldman suggests.