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Perhaps we could crowdfund a gang to deal with these people. We could call it... the police.
Said it’s pretty much been scalleys in track suits payment in cash buying them
Do we need a "know your customer" type law? It's been done for financial services and scrap metal.
These bikes cost the same or less than an ebike and have way better performance and quality. Why would any sensible person by an ebike ?
Legitimate use - easier to park, easier to handle, easier to filter.
Nefarious use - easier to hide, easier to get places you shouldn't.
Most pay to play off-road/ motocross centres don’t want them anywhere near them either.
Is that right? Where have you seen any evidence of that?
Signs in Forestry land up near Grandtully spelling out the difference:
Generally for off road/Mx centres you need a bike of a certain and checked standard, plus helmet/safety gear, possibly 3rd party insurance. You also have to pay for the facilities or club, and have a way to get your bime there. Funnily enough organised motor sport centres have lots of rules and regs and liabilities to abide by.
Atleast that's how it used to be a couple of decades ago when I was trying to sort out issues with illegal off-roading by scrotes and daddy scrote/little scrote gangs in community woodlands I was trying to grow and develop. There was an off road centre maybe two miles away, but you had to pay, have insurance, helmet etc, and bikes that were suitable. Obviously you had to also get the off-road bikes there by legal means, not the pavements and estate roads.
They weren't about to pay and abide by stupid rules to use their bikes.
I saw my first legal one yesterday - Number plate, L-plate, helmet, boots and jacket, and being ridden sensibly - well he stopped at the lights, which is a low bar that the illegal ones fail to pass.
So the problem isn't Sur-rons per se, it's arseholes.
Those signs showing the difference between legal Eebs and the MX bikes are good to see.
Maybe those signs can be forwarded to the BBC to update their previous article???
That ssign. It's got "it's" instead of "its".
Was at a local pump track the other day. It was busy with a handful of kids pedaling round. But there was also a dad on a sur-on with his two little kids on electric balance bikes/scooter things. He was riding round fast, clearing doubles etc. But admittedly there was never a moment where he might have crashed into anyone.
There was a couple of other parents there, they just asked him where he got the e-scooters from, a teenager came over to see if he could have a go on the sur-on and a couple of cops came by, watched him do a few laps then wandered off. Seems I'm the only person who thought he was behaving like a bit of a dick.
Of course I just muttered under my breath and shook my head a bit.
Am I wrong? An adult bashing round a pump track on a sur-on whilst there's other kids there? In front of your own kids thereby validating that behaviour to them? Or is that ok?
Am I wrong? An adult bashing round a pump track on a sur-on whilst there’s other kids there? In front of your own kids thereby validating that behaviour to them? Or is that ok?
I agree with you.
Seems I’m the only person who thought he was behaving like a bit of a dick.
Nope, you're right, he was.
'It'll attract motorcycles' is one of the most common lines you hear from NIMBYs who are opposed to pumptracks or any other kind of fun bike stuff. Of course they really just hate any kind of noise and young people in general but the Sur Ron crowd give them a lot to work with.
From what you were saying it sounds like Pumptrack Dad was at last being fairly careful but if that pump track starts seeing more of these turn up it's only a matter of time before there's an accident and at that point a injured child's parent will be demanding to know why the council wasn't preventing motorcycles being used there.
The council will then probably end up in court and face either having to employ a warden to police the facility or see a vast hike in their public liability insurance, neither of which they will be able to afford.
At best it puts a major damper on plans for any future facilities, at worst they all get ripped out and everyone loses.
The muppet riding a 'twist and go' Ebike conversion round Swinley with no helmet on Sunday falls under a similar category.
I ride my mountain bike where I m not allowed to. I just do it respectfully and responsibly. Personally I don't mind others doing similar. If it was safe then no issues from me.
how to ruin a nice bike
wtf!
Kona Lava Dome Ebike.
3000w Hub Wheel
72v Battery Maximal Charge 84v outputs 5000w on a full charge
60a controller (84 x 60 = 5040w) on full charge
Charge will last you 1-3 days depending on how you use it depends what mode and style of riding.
60mph top speed ( surron killer )
5 modes
Mode 1 - 10mph
Mode 2 - 25 mph
Mode 3 - 35mph
Mode 4 - 45/50mph
Mode 5 - 50-60mph
This bike cost 1.5k to build so dont fool around when offering to buy the bike. This bike is basically a surron / talaria sting r on a mountain bike in fact it is faster than most surrons.
The acceleration and handling on this bike is crazy so please be careful.
Wheelies are done very easily took me a week to learn it very very easy.
Used for a couple months built by me cable managed + waterproofed everything no silly offers and scammers can stop wasting their own time.
!!!!Make Sure to use ONLY IN PRIVATE LAND AND NOT ON PUBLIC ROADS !!!!😉
Blimey, mode 2 is still way too quick.
I'm starting to suspect some of these conversions are a being made by a shadowy cabal of eugenicists looking to deepen the gene pool.
50-60 MPH on cheap disc brakes, XC tyres and Q/R wheels?
Can we get the buyer's address so that they can get their Darwin Award ready in advance?
Absolute madness having that power with these components.
Maybe our combined complaints to the beeb have had an impact - nice change of description now, hurrah!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-67380021
I was just comparing a complaint letter to the BBC based on the original version, which actually had the phrase "electric motorbikes, or e-bikes...". Someone obviously beat me to it.
Both West and North Yorkshire Police (I live on the border and thus follow both) have been regularly posting on Social Media over the past few weeks about what seems to be a bit of a clampdown on these (as well as more traditional anti-social crosser and stolen Gixxer 600 use).
Our local NPT have also been taking it quite seriously on a local level as we suffer from a local dog walking/school route path being used as a cut-through/drag strip by chicken chasers and pit bikes.
It is, of course, met with all sorts of uproad about arent the police supposed to be dealing with real crime, and thats my promising young footballer sons crimbo present, not my fault he got expelled, wot else iz he supposed to do all day etc.
Crush em, imo.
There was a long piece by the journalist who wrote the article linked above on BBC breakfast this morning. Was very impressed to be honest at the effort he went to to delineate between e-scooters/e-bikes/e-motorbikes. I assumed from the way it was presented that the piece was a preview of a standalone BBC program, but can't see anything.
Some footage from BBC breakfast here;
https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1723955100618535156?s=20
Crush em, imo.
Kid or the bike? 😉
The scrotes are less of a problem round here than the deliveroo riders on these electric motorbikes. I only recently found out one of them crashed into an Italian cyclist (when he was on foot) here in Glasgow for the world champs. Guy was apparently a medal contender. Ended up with a broken leg and the guy that hit him just rode off. There was also a BBC news story about another guy taken out by one of them recently
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-67242398
Thankfully the police are taking action. They seized 12 bikes a couple of weeks ago as they were either modified or already illegal when bought. The clowns riding them buzz around the city without a 2nd thought for anyone else. I had a run in with one a few weeks ago on a pavement in the city centre when he was trying to fly through a bunch of us waiting to cross the road. I blocked his path and told him to get on the road but he refused to speak or move.
The food delivery idiots are starting to become a real problem in urban areas.
Got a few London-based friends I know through music stuff who have zero interest in bikes, was chatting to a few of them recently and the general consensus was they "****ing hate cyclists"
At first this came across as pure Daily Mail stuff but it was uncharacteristic of them so I dug a little bit deeper, turned out they had all had run-ins with Food Delivery types on twist and go electric motorbikes or conversion kits, the usual, aggressive riding on pavements, running red lights, riding at night with no lights etc.
To the uniformed these people are 'cyclists' and therefore when asked about what they think about cyclists the answers were very hostile but in reality this was all a result of encounters with this specific subset.
'Giving us all a bad name' is a cliche but it's an appropriate description of what's happening right now and it will have consequences down the line.
The only real solution will be to give the delivery apps the legal responsibility for their riders to use legal transport but they will do ANYTHING they can to wriggle out of that as they know how big a problem it is.
After what happened in Cardiff,it's a real tricky one for police to manage.
If they try to stop the riders and there are crashes,or injury to other members of the public,they then get the blame.
Crush em, imo.
Kid or the bike? 😉
And the parents.
Sur-Ons and illegally modified ebikes are a nightmare. The Police need to crack down on the Deliveroo riders though - just wait outside the takeaways and with a skip....
We have a lot around the office, they like to play chicken when I use the zebra crossing. Then they bottle it when I drop my shoulder and they realise I'm prepared to risk a collision.
My first encounter with these e motorbike folk at Ashton court on Saturday.
They were the hard of thinking sort, but were civil to me. They knew they shouldn't be there there, and I knew they knew that I knew.
Since greater than 50% of my riding is in places I'm not supposed to be, I wasn't going to attempt to pillory them. We exchanged naught boy nods and a knowing look and left it at that.
Yeah, they had motors, but they couldn't ride for shit - because I was right behind them, I could see they were being pretty respectful of the trail tbh.
The food delivery idiots are starting to become a real problem in urban areas.
Maybe in the absence of sufficient policing it would make sense to make it the responsibility of the booking agent (Deliveroo etc.) to ensure the legality of their riders (Uber etc. have to vet drivers) - it'll only take a handful of cases and fines before the impact on their bottom line encourages them to be a bit more stringent.
So pleased to see that article on the BBC as it's been really pissing me off for a while.
Theres a guy who lives near me with a strap on type battery and a throttle. I followed him for about half a mile the other day, he was doling about 30mph and didn't pedal once. He left me when I had to stop behind someone stopped at red lights at a pedestrian crossing. He just went round the car infornt and through the red lights.
People will see that he is essentially riding a normal mountain bike and continue with the hate, but it's actually more akin to a motorbike. I want to report him but don't know if theres any need or point!
it’s actually more akin to a motorbike.
It's not 'akin' to a motorbike, if it has a twist and go throttle, it categorically IS a motorbike.
And therefore, to legally be used on the public highway it requires a license plate,3rd party insurance, MOT, lights, helmet etc.
The laws are there, they're just not being enforced.
It always strikes me that the police should use their time to stake out where the scrotes return home to rather than chasing them on the highway. Catch them when they return and crush the bike
That's the issue, with no license plates and generally masked up it's not that easy to work our who they are and therefore where they live.
A national campaign to get neighbors to report them would greatly help enforcement but if you live nearby the local scumbag family do you really want to risk them thinking it may have been you that was responsible for little Timmy's pride and joy being crushed.
I think it's the speed limit thats most important, rather than the throttle...
"Because of the particular benefits for elderly and disabled users, pedal cycles providing electrical assistance without use of the pedals - usually called “Twist and Goes” - are included in the above GB classification provided they are capable of pedal operation and comply with the above restrictions on maximum motor power and assistance cut-off speed."
It’s not ‘akin’ to a motorbike, if it has a twist and go throttle, it categorically IS a motorbike.
Not necessarily. there are various exemptions as well as the above
its probably illegal but could be legal
Such technicalities are probably part of why the rules go unenforced and they should be "clarified" as part of the fix to the sur-on problem. I'm certain police and prosecutors have better things to do with their time than get into arguments about what constitutes an illegal motorcycle.
‘Giving us all a bad name’ is a cliche but it’s an appropriate description of what’s happening right now and it will have consequences down the line.
This I (sadly) agree with.
For some reason, drivers of cars are 'seen' differently. Most people don't watch Police Camera Action and then think "You know what, I hate car drivers, they should all be banned" and similar. But one two wheeled vehicle does something wrong, or perceived as wrong, and all cyclists are bad...
And the press have to get on top of this, like the BBC did this morning. Although they did publish it and then change it - so many people read an article about 'e-bikes'...
At least with motorcrossers you could hear them coming a mile off and either avoid or be prepared to meet them on the trails. These e-motorcrossers are essentially silent, and I've nearly been hit twice, once with my 8 year old son by them absolutely smashing it along footpaths at the local sports ground.
Where do mobility scooters sit in all this? There's a guy near me who has one that seems way faster than any other I've seen. Can I get a granny kart & chip it? Can I claim my Sur on is a mobility aid?
All hypothetical of course but wondered if anyone knew the rules.
I used to live in South Brizzle near to the interview on the BBC today
Yes Moto-X were a similar problem, as the same as:
"I assume these things are a bit like jet skis were when they became popular with certain types.
Ride them twice while making Top Gear type woohoo noises then get bored and move on to the next thing."
but both Jetski's and Moto-X cant be stored in your hallway, these can. I think this will get a whole lot worse
Round my way they are almost all on hired bikes. There is an oufit that has sprung up to fill this market. No lights on the hire bikes iirc
Why would deliveroo make workers, sorry, fulfilment operatives, use legal vehicles?
That's my point above - they need to be incentivised to do so.
Round my way they are almost all on hired bikes
Eldest has commented on the growth of the hired and illegal bikes. I think many are on payment plans. He has also commented on growing numbers with absolutely no care of the Highway Code or self preservation - and he is a normal-biked Deliveroo rider...
So many have picked up the cycle delivery gig that he is likely doing his last shift this week - he has found the prices are going down for delivery, and it is just not worth it. Even at 'peak price' times such as large football events, dark and bad weather when many stay home.
Hadn't thought that the delivery riders might be on some payment plan/hire for these bikes - they are royally screwed if they get pulled by the cops and bike taken - they will still have to pay the hire person (not exactly a legal business).
Hadn’t thought that the delivery riders might be on some payment plan/hire for these bikes – they are royally screwed if they get pulled by the cops and bike taken – they will still have to pay the hire person (not exactly a legal business).
They could just do some county lines drug running like the yoof do to pay for their sur-ons.
I thought this quote was quite interesting:
In Hartcliffe, we managed to get one of the young riders to stop and talk.<br />"It's fun for me, I like the thrill of it," he says, speaking with a heavy Bristol accent from behind a balaclava.<br />He acknowledges his electric motorbike isn't legal on the road and says he's had four bikes seized by the police.
Where the f*** do they keep getting the money from?
What's the cost of an average Sur-Ron? Obvs hasn't got a job as he spends all day riding round trolling the Police to chase him.........
Also if he's had them seized I'm assuming he's amassed fines and points - not that having points will be an issue if you have no tax, insurance etc......
See post above yours.
Natural selection will take its course as it sadly did with motorcyclists before helmets became a legal requirement The police can’t win on this one.
Not really. These scum have often already passed on the scum gene to the next before nature gets its chance.
These scum
They are not scum. They are young people and adults who enjoy the thrill of going fast on a bike. Something I would have thought forum members could relate to.
They do this in an illegal and inappropriate way, which risks them and thier communities. And many will know no alternative, will have influences on thier attitudes and decisions that many of us struggle to understand.
But at the end of the day, they want to ride bikes fast.
@dirkpitt74 I live in South Bristol (not Hartcliffe though!) and can confirm, majority of the bally'd up SurRon owners are drug dealing roadmen, using things like cycle tracks & alleyways, underpasses etc to do drops. TBH must be a nightmare for the police as they've got practically no chance of catching them.
They are not scum. They are young people and adults who enjoy the thrill of going fast on a bike. Something I would have thought forum members could relate to.
Nah, turns out they are scum... Soz.
The food delivery idiots are starting to become a real problem in urban areas.
Agreed, even before the illegal electric motorbikes.
In the context of this matter, I don't care about their employment arrangements with Deliveroo etc.; they are the rider and are therefore responsible.
They've given me a damn scare a few times as a pedestrian, rider, and car driver. Actually more so in the latter case.
Dark clothing
Face covering
No lights
Reckless riding through pedestrians
TBH must be a nightmare for the police as they’ve got practically no chance of catching them.
There's more to it than is being reported (and the fact that it was Hartcliffe in particular) as it's probably a result of the cause of the riots in '92:
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/hartcliffe-riots-25-years-setting-202628
The Police know that they're in an almost impossible situation because of historical tension with what happened back then, and as seen in Cardiff recently. I'd imagine that there's an element of needing to show that it's not their fault if something bad happens, hence getting the media in now, both to try and prevent it and to help shift the inevitable blame from some parts of society.
I see the Police have there own Sur-Rons now:
Although no balaclava, bright jacket - they'll never blend in!!
Can they wheelie?
Can they wheelie?
That’s the most annoying thing about all the scrotes on any kind of bike.
They can always pull awesome wheelies.
I see the Police have there own Sur-Rons now:
I'm surprised that surrons can be made road legal, and get insurance....
I would have thought that they would be unable to pass the requirements of the SVA (or whatever test it is that motorbikes have to pass)
I’m surprised that surrons can be made road legal, and get insurance….
You can buy an out-of-the-box road legal version.
I’m surprised that surrons can be made road legal, and get insurance….
They sell a couple of road legal variants.
I’m amazed anyone can get affordable insurance on them based on the driving habits of their main user base and presumably they are a theft magnet due to the popularity with drug dealer scummers.
I think by virtue of you asking for insurance you will be demonstrating you arent part of their core user base and hence that wont be counted against you.
In terms of theft. I guess they might be safish from that also given the core user base. Best to nick money from someone nice and buy your own instead of having a drug addled nutter after you for nicking theirs.
Are Sur-Rons more desirable now than decent mountain bikes? That's a silver lining if the scrotes nick those instead.
I’m amazed anyone can get affordable insurance on them based on the driving habits of their main user base
Why? To become an insurance statistic you first need insurance.
Was very impressed to be honest at the effort he went to to delineate between e-scooters/e-bikes/e-motorbikes
Noticed that on the clip I saw on TV other day. Needs to get across to the general public as local social media groups are just full of calls to ban ebikes and it's difficult arguing the distinction between ebike and electric motorbike. "doesn't matter, should all be banned" etc (and follows with usual rants about bicycles in general, taxes, red light jumping and all the usual bingo stuff).
As an electric motorbike, the issue isn't that it's electric, it's just kids dicking around anti-socially on a motorbike same as they've always done.
What's the difference now though? Is it just because it's a new thing? Is it easier to get a Sur-ron than a petrol bike, and/or that kids don't have to fuel up at a petrol station, just charge at home.
A petrol bike would have regulations to sell them too with registration plates etc. Sur-rons I guess you can just order online, no plates?
A petrol bike would have regulations to sell them too with registration plates etc
Not really - the same " for offroad use only" loophole would apply and has a genuine usage for motocross bikes which are not road legal and raced on private ground
The issue is that ice bikes are temperamental and break a lot. They need a bit of looking after and degrade rapidly when kept in a scheme environment. They have a limited lifespan before something breaks and it's game over.
The leccy bikes are simpler, can be bought on tic and require much less maintenance, so they are going to appeal, and I reckon they'll have a longer lifespan too.
The people selling these from Sur Ron themselves down to the dealers know exactly what they are doing too. From a quick look at some websites they are full of references to ripping up the city streets, great fun out in the woods. The kids sized Sur Ron described by a dealer as a great way to get your kids away from a computer and out into the real world.
It's the wild west out there!
they are not solely bought by 'off road's enthusiast's, they are gifted down from the dealers above to the lower level dealers/distributors.
They are perfect for distributing drugs, silent, fast, can't be easily stopped. The same usage pattern would not have developed with a noisy unreliable KX/CR/YZ/RM 'crosser.
I can't wait for electric Motorcross bikes to take off.
It will transform some of our local rides which go past a Motocross track...
Difference between normal motorbikes and leccy ones is gears. Jump on a leccy bike and pull the throttle off you go, no need to learn how to ride it.
They're quicker and lighter than 50cc mopeds and easier to ride. Win win!
Illegal use of these bikes is as much, if not more, of a problem to legal off-road motorbike riders.
I've participated in both ACU sanctioned motorbike trials competitions and recreational mountain biking for over thirty years. Land use for legal trials competitions is always under threat from illegal use.