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And you have got a full A2 motorbike licence, right? Because an unrestricted Sur-ron has a power to weight ratio greater than 0.1kw/kg so can only be ridden with an A2 licence.
Not yet. But I do have 5 acres of woods here to play in until I take a test. There's some debate of what sort of test is necessary. The bike (Talaria Sting R) claims to have 8kW, but that's peak - it's continuous power is only 4kW (and I imagine that's the number that's important, not the "marketing number").
Certainly gov.uk says
Electric motorcycles
You can use an electric motorcycle [for your test] or moped if it both:has the same engine power as the petrol version
can keep that power for at least 30 minutesThis is known as the ‘continuous power rating’ - you can check this with the manufacturer.
So who knows 🤷♂️ Be nice to not have L-plates and not have to re-take a CBT every 2 years, anyway.
Presumably then it’ll be registered and have a numberplate. You’d best not be riding it on any bridleways then, just stick to roads and BOATs and you’ll be golden. That is the plan yeah?
Aye, that's the plan. Lots of decent greenlanes/BOATs around here (and our woods).
Are they legal from a type approval viewpoint? Surly there's a load of requirements that motorbikes have to meet, in the same way that cars have to.
Small volume motorbikes can just go through the individual vehicle approval process. I know one manufacturer that has an IVA inspection bay on the premises (but it is locked up and functions as a totally stand alone and independently audited operation). I presume the same can be done for electric bikes. Not sure how much requirement there is in this for approved components - e.g. tyres and brakes etc already have approvals.
Fair play downhiller, I'm convinced. 👍
0.1kw/kg, so 134 bhp/tonne. Blimey!!!
As opposed to the 2000bhp/tonne of a modern sports bike. Bit less with your average lardy rider on board, but it's not surprising they need some fairly sophisticated electronics to give you a chance of controlling them.
A Sur-ron claims 7kw and 45 kg so just over 200bhp/tonne.
On a scaled down MX track I bet it would be awesome fun, at somewhere like Staunton it'd just be an accident waiting to happen.
Downhiller: what insurance have you got? Do you mean third party liability insurance or insurance for you if it gets stolen?
And that power is of course the attraction - they are motorbikes.
But as the post from downhiller shows, the rules are seriously complex. How is a police officer on the street, or buyer of a bike, is meant to know all this though?
I was wrong about the A2 licence requirement - I had incorrectly assumed that electric bikes had the same power to weight ratio requirements as ICE bikes. But licences for electric bikes are rated purely on power regardless of weight, and up to 11kw only requires A1. 11-35kw needs A2, and above 35kw an unrestricted class A licence. There is also a moped equivalent category, L1e, which must have a maximum speed of 28mph. Surron sell one of these, but it's easy to derestrict and can then do 47mph.
Decent explainer here https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/electric-motorcycle-law-uk/
still ridden by gits whatever the power
The one we have on my parent’s farm is definitely a little electric moto and that’s how it feels. Definitely not an ebike, it doesn’t have pedals and has a throttle. My mum prefers it because it’s pretty much silent compared to the quads and scramblers we had as kids (although she still disapproves of motos) until we broke either then or ourselves trying to recreate the Kristy Demons of Dirt videos.
The naming piece is a challenge, I have an uncool version of this, and by that I mean a vespa type scooter that's electric. I tend to call it an electric moped to avoid people thinking I'm 1. on an e-scooter 2. In any way cool. 🙂
A bit off topic but absolutely love it, tops out at 50mph, 45 mile range. Got rid of my car and don't miss it at all.
The dealer I initially went to had the night before just had 5 of the sur-ons nicked from his yard. He said they're used alot of the time to evade the po-po after commiting crimes and drug deals.
I'd agree with the general consensus: cut off the supply, only sold if theyre registered/ road legal. I can't see a positive reason to have one that an ebike doesn't deliver
Most riders of Sur-ron type bikes know they are illegal, given they all have balaclavas in the height of summer. Not exactly in-conspicuous, especially when you see a lad on foot run across the road in the village, and there is another on a bike a few hundred yards away. They know the police can't do anything.
We had one 'lovely caring lad' (who had been previously convicted of being part of a "take away" owner's manslaughter when they knicked his car and ran him over) get splatted recently. He robbed 'the wrong lads' bike from another village. Said 'victim' jumped in his car, tracked him down, gave chase, and ran him off the road and killed him. This lot just don't care. There were 'riots' locally because of it.
Coming back from last nights Monday Night Pub Ride at about 10.30 last night and a gang of about 15 scrotes on Sur-Rons came battering down off the hills. They scared the living ****ing shit out of me! Riding home down a usually empty bridleway at that time, the last thing you're expecting is to suddenly be surrounded by 15 nobheads in balaclavas on silent motor bikes, blatting past you at 30mph+ 😳
So it looks like we're now going to be sharing the local trails with them
Oh joy! Something to look forward to
Such a nice bunch
Coming back from last nights Monday Night Pub Ride at about 10.30 last night and a gang of about 15 scrotes on Sur-Rons came battering down off the hills. They scared the living ****ing shit out of me! Riding home down a usually empty bridleway at that time, the last thing you’re expecting is to suddenly be surrounded by 15 nobheads in balaclavas on silent motor bikes, blatting past you at 30mph+ 😳
They came from Rawtenstall way - I was out with doggo and they blasted past me, headlights, no tailights (obviously!), heading towards Ramsbottom direction.
I've seen the odd scroat - there was one I had a run in with up Robins Hoods Well/Whitehorse descent, and saw two in Eden field the other day but last night was a full on big group of them.
@RustyNissanPrairie - I've seen the odd couple around too, but nothing like last night. They came off the Moor Bottom Road from that direction, then headed down the Rake, so must have come up Robin Hoods Well direction.
I hope its not the sign of things to come, but suspect it will be. The crossers have already destroyed all the trails over the other side of the valley and its clear that the police can't do anything about it (where would they even start?).
It was a pretty scary experience suddenly having 15 Sur-Rons all around you and they clearly all found it hilarious that they'd nearly given me a heart attack.
As opposed to the 2000bhp/tonne of a modern sports bike.
More like 1000bhp/tonne surely? An R1 is ~200bhp and ~200kg, no?
A Sur-ron claims 7kw and 45 kg so just over 200bhp/tonne.
That's bad maths right there, that'd be 156bhp/tonne. Also I believe the weight claim is optimistic - certainly it's known that the Talarias are built a bit sturdier, but mine is somewhere in the 63-72kg range (seen a variety of numbers, won't know until I actually weigh it). Also worth noting that the Sur-ron's 7kW and the Talaria's 8kW are both PEAK power, not continuous. As to what that means in the real world, I don't know.
Downhiller: what insurance have you got? Do you mean third party liability insurance or insurance for you if it gets stolen?
None yet, but the quote I got was TP road insurance, as opposed to fully comp or TP+F&T.
There is also a moped equivalent category, L1e, which must have a maximum speed of 28mph. Surron sell one of these, but it’s easy to derestrict and can then do 47mph.
ALL Sur-Rons and Talaria's come set to 28mph. Well, the L1E/road legal versions anyway, but I think the off-road ones maybe do as well? And they all come with a little loop of wire which its known if snipped will derestrict them. They know they have to do it, but they know no-one wants to be limited, so they make the bypass simple (whilst undocumented, officially, of course).
still ridden by gits whatever the power
Most of them, for sure.
Coming back from last nights Monday Night Pub Ride at about 10.30 last night and a gang of about 15 scrotes on Sur-Rons came battering down off the hills. They scared the living ****ing shit out of me! Riding home down a usually empty bridleway at that time, the last thing you’re expecting is to suddenly be surrounded by 15 nobheads in balaclavas on silent motor bikes, blatting past you at 30mph+ 😳
So it looks like we’re now going to be sharing the local trails with them
That does NOT sound pleasant. But aye, I can't see the problem going away I'm afraid. Mandatory conscription, I think that's what the yoofs need 😁
Such a nice bunch
/blockquote>
😮I hope its not the sign of things to come, but suspect it will be. The crossers have already destroyed all the trails over the other side of the valley and its clear that the police can’t do anything about it (where would they even start?).
Sadly, I think it is. And whilst I certainly won't be acting like the ones you're all describing, **** me do they look a lot of fun. Count me in. Glad I've bought one before they're banned 😁
I'm also VERY glad I live in a part of the country where I've never seen one! Relatively low population and relatively low income. God bless North Wales.
More like 1000bhp/tonne surely? An R1 is ~200bhp and ~200kg, no?
How embarrassing. Of course you are right. Getting my 1000kg in a tonne/2240lbs in a ton mixed up. Clearly getting senile.
<p style="text-align: left;">Couple of young lads with mandatory balaclavas zooming around the kids playground at our local park tonight. It's effing ridiculous that the police aren't all over this. It's 500m from their station yet I've never seen one in the park.</p>
Report them every time you see them.
Spoke to my own local constabulary regarding the matter a few weeks back and working out the patterns of when and where these scrotes are out and about is very helpful for them.
Plus the more reports they get the more likely they are to dedicate scarce resources to it.
The Government are going to buying them, not banning them:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/18/army-soldiers-trial-battery-powered-mountain-bikes/
The Government are going to buying them, not banning them:
The military do buy lots of banned things though.
The Government are going to buying them, not banning them:
What tyres for armed combat?
Should have Aggressors instead of the DHF in the pic.
@squirrelking, sorry for the slow reply. No, my budget didn't stretch even to the Silence range.
It's a Lexmoto (well, they're the importer, Lveng are the manfacturer) LX06 ( https://www.lexmoto.com/models/LX06MAX-E5). Bought for £3k last year as it was the best value option, price has been bouncing around either side of that since so I suspect they haven't sold many.
Overall very happy with it taking the rough (that in the lower half of the battery the top speed tops out at nearer 40mph) with the smooth (that the range isn't effected in winter as much as an EV, maybe 5%). To be fair I don't go far nowadays - 5 miles to golf, 10 miles to tennis, 15 miles to work. The biggest negative is I don't readily consider riding to golf/tennis now as it's so quick/easy/fun on the moped
Good to know, even if it's not the same it's still useful info. Half considering something that can get me over the hill in winter to another station but also conscious that they're rather easily stolen. A silence S01+ would theoretically work on motorway at 60 all the way to the office but that's another level of risk.
Gah...
You know this lot are totally different - MX bike riders, vs sur-rons, you know which ones are 'shady'.
I was out last month on the road bike down some really small back roads in North Wales (pushing it a bit for 25c) and I could hear a load of MX bikes coming up the hill. I stopped and waited, and all waved thanks. About 10 miles later, I'm returning from my loop and we cross paths again, waves exchanged !
@binners & @RustyNissanPrairie There's a SurRon riding scrote from Accrington way, he has a Instagram page & posts videos, usually of a big group of them at night, riding on road in Accy & off road around Hameldon Hill area, plus a couple of weeks ago up Darwen Moors.
Possibly that lot that you encountered?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974
And, with grim inevitability....
Looks like a 7 year old has been killed by 14 year old boy riding a motorbike around illegally.
Poor wee thing, thoughts go out to her family.
"We have still to recover the motorbike involved and I know someone out there in the local community knows where the bike is."
The force said it was looking for a blue and black road bike after the collision on Turnstone Road, in the Bloxwich area, but was yet to determine the exact make and model.
Awful, but, as regards this thread, is there any suggestion it wasn't a petrol fueled motorbike?
3 ninja scroats on Surrons in Ramsbottom Nuttal Park last night. Reported via Crimestoppers.
I think this thread had moved beyond just Sur Ron's and onto 'illegal dirt bikes being used by scrotes' as many of the issues overlap, same laws being broken etc.
Regardless of how the bike was powered, the tragedy is the same.
The seasonal Petrol powered Scrotes are now back out our way now as well as the Sur-Rons, ****ting down all the local paths.
I wouldn't mind if our local police took that Birmingham incident as a timely prompt to crack down on them whatever the fuel source they're bloody dangerous.
Very tragic, and somewhat telling that the bike involved has magically vanished...
"I would urge anyone with any information, however large or small, to make contact with us," said the officer.
"This is not about protecting people, this is about doing the right thing," he added, urging the local community to "come together" and work with him.
Any Community that still needs prompting to "do the right thing" a day after the event clearly has some issues.
You know this lot are totally different – MX bike riders, vs sur-rons, you know which ones are ‘shady’.
I do wonder if the MX bikers are getting lower insurance now as in the past the shady ones would have been on nicked mx bikes.
You know this lot are totally different – MX bike riders, vs sur-rons, you know which ones are ‘shady’.
The biggest give away on either type of motorbike is the lack of crash helmets and number plates, if they've got both they're most likely absolutely fine, or at least smart enough to not want to draw unwanted attention to themselves.
Was at a coaching training day last weekend, two young (13ish at a guess) kids went past us on a single Sur-On, one with tinted goggles, the other in a balaclava (both dressed in black), headed straight towards our parked cars and an open shipping container (used for storage and on this day, hiding from the rain between riding). One memebr of the group followed them and asked if he could help them (as they were riding between our parked cars), one replied with "Just looking to see what you have" before the other one chimmed in with "Cheers" before riding off.
Charming.
An interesting read (from 2018)
But while society has seen fit to fund a bit of "Roadman research" so we can really understand their apparently complex motivations and desires. The little ****ers are still out there doing whatever the **** they like...
I feel like the time for tolerance and understanding of this particular subset of disenfranchised youth is long past.
The biggest give away on either type of motorbike is the lack of crash helmets and number plates,
Yup, this is the key distinction and what marks out mostly law abiding riders.
I've seen almost zero antisocial riding from any E or petrol MX bike with legal plates.
Few of them around Cheltenham too - saw a couple of lads 2 up on an electric crosser in the middle of the pedestrian bit of town a few days ago - same M.O. as above, all in black with balaclavas and glasses. Have seen similar up Leckhampton though fortunately not on the trails.
I wonder if the electric silence has enabled this? They’re quite, stealthy and being largely unlicensed, easy to nick and virtually untraceable. There’s no way your average balaclava wearing rider could get near owning one legitimately. You’d almost say aren’t on the spot arrests on the cards but no doubt there’d be civil liberties repercussions and that’s if there were even the resources available.
Electric bikes being quiet is certainly part of it, part of it is probably also that the barrier to entry in terms of both maintenance (2 strokes need oil and at least some tlc to prevent them eating themselves) and skill required to not get spat off of it are far lower with electric bikes.
And you have to be 16 to legally buy petrol. They actually mystery shop petrol stations in Hampshire tp try to stop selling fuel to 14 year olds.
Its a shame that neds have jumped on EMX bikes as their latest way to be anti social ad they actually represent a fantastic transport solution.
Tied into a pv cell and charger they are quiet, take up little room on the road, fast enough to keep up with traffic flow, light so less road wear, burm zero funny el while stopped at rail crossing barriers, need no engine oil or 2 stroke, and if solar charged incredibly cheap commutes are possible
You’d almost say aren’t on the spot arrests on the cards but no doubt there’d be civil liberties repercussions and that’s if there were even the resources available.
and with no identifying plates, as soon as they see police they're off with no regard for other traffic, pedestrians, one-way streets and no through road barriers leading to the Cardiff type situations.
I can't see a solution beyond controlling the source and look how well that works for other contraband industries.
Definitely been more regular sightings of the Police MXers around the area where the helmetless hoodlums tend to play, not sure how successful they are
matt_outandabout
^ once again, police using incorrect terms and thereby causing possible issues with law abiding eBike riders.
They are electric motorbikes and need to be referred to as such.
Seeing this so often in the press and it rubs off in local social media groups with plenty calling for "e-bikes" to be banned. Trying to explain the difference between an electric motorbike and a pedal assist E-bike is a struggle. They just see them as all the same thing. Now they see an pedal E-bike in the trails, bridleways and such and they shout they're illegal, which obviously they're not.
Just seen a scrote, all in black, no helmet, balaclava (it seems its now a uniform), on a Sur-ron (no number plate, obvs) on the back wheel, at speed, all the way down the busy main street, while theres a street market on and pedestrians everywhere.
They really don't give a flying ****. And why would they when theres zero chance of them getting caught
I have been lectured to twice about the damage done by "you people on motorbikes" whilst on a bike without any form of motor - once I was on the Galaxy. The other also objected to the big tyres on a fat bike as they cut up the path even more.
They walk amongst us.
I do have some empathy for the guys who make a living riding them, but they are a nightmare to share cycling infrastructure with.
I reckon GMP could get 20 in 5minutes on Oxford Road in Manchester. They have the occasional clamp down, but I don't think they've confiscated any yet, just handed out fines.
I reckon GMP could get 20 in 5minutes on Oxford Road in Manchester. They have the occasional clamp down, but I don’t think they’ve confiscated any yet, just handed out fines.
Imagine the backlash from everyone who had their Deliveroo order held up.
How do you solve the Sur-On problem?
Have we had 'kneecapping' as a suggestion yet?
Extreme, but effective. All those in favour say 'aye'.
Interestingly I saw a paid advert from a police force yesterday on FB (can’t remember which one!) outlining the difference between legal and illegal e-bikes, reminding people they need plates/insurance etc for the latter and promising to seize vehicles from those they found breaking the law.
Maybe we should symbolically burn a Sur-On in Cardiff City Centre.
Not Cardiff but
Is this a legit Ebike or a home made jobby?
Stealth Bomber
Like a cheap Sur-ron, big frame mounted battery and a huge rear hub motor.
^ with a symbolic crank and chain for the "look officer it's a pedal bike" get out of jail free card.
Is this a legit Ebike or a home made jobby?
If Mad Max was doing Deliveroo on the side.
And here is the problem - that burned bike you can import direct from China:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265080730365
@Trailseeker 'Jobby' is indeed the word for that.
(As an aside this is a prime example of why you should run any proposed trademark through urbandictionary before using it)
Buzzed by one last night whilst cycling home, rider with balaclava, pillion shouting in my ear. I'll shove you in the fence next time.
hold on, motorcyclist, no insurance, licence or helmet.
seems the glasgow police are doing something...
Although this single incident seems to be news worthy.
Saw 2 on our night ride last night. Balaclavas on and no helmets so am assuming they will delete themselves in due course
I saw three wheeling through Arbroath the other night. First time I've actually seen them in the flesh. Funnily enough yoofs with caps and buffs over their faces.
The issue is they may delete someone else in the process.
seems the Glasgow police are doing something…
Idiot stopped, bike seized (and hopefully crushed), clearly saying it's an electric motorcycle and not an 'E-bike' good work all round.
Has anyone ever spotted a SurRon being ridden sensibly?
Don't be daft.
Me neither, but to be fair I don't live near an MX track or on large farm or private estate, which are the legitimate use cases for these bikes.
Most pay to play off-road/ motocross centres don't want them anywhere near them either.
Regularly see sur rons being ridden round Aberdeen city centre.
had one come up the right hand side of me on a 40mph DC, and actually swerved towards me.
i was driving a 20 ton bus, so **** knows what he was hoping to achieve.
I was working on some fencing with the Wildlife Trust volunteers yesterday and one came hammering down the lane flat out, rider head to foot in black 'tactical' clothing, balaclava and black wrap around shades. I don't think he was just out for a leisure ride. One of the other volunteers asked "if we all know what they are doing, why don't the police?".
<p>Just seen the Aberdeen “crew” follow a police van down Union Street. Hard to see what the police can do without some significant resources. At the same time it’s probably quite a small number of the little what’s it’s that are a problem, get them off the road problem sorted?</p>
If one of these little darlings get knocked off, they were lovely young lads, salt of the earth, does his gran's shopping everyday (whilst on the drugs run).
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Has anyone ever spotted a SurRon being ridden sensibly?</span>
Most riding along the canal path next to me are ok. Slow right down, and are generally aware of other users.
Couple of ****s, but on the whole ok.
However, I think it's the ex mx bikers with new toys, not scrotes. The mx lads were just really loud, now they're not.
£2k and it's yours....
The ones riding across the Rutland cricket pitch in Ilkeston last week weren't bothered about hiding their identity, even when I was filming them with my phone.
Weirdly, I can't find how/where I can report and upload the clip to the safer neighbourhood team, so I gave up.
Round our way there's a few, usual balaclava and so on, messing about on the roads at night, you can almost see how it'll end, police aren't that interested, they upload videos of wheelies and so on down the main streets, folk complain, there'll be an incident of someone doing something daft and it'll be all too late to sort it.
Spoke to a guy who works ina mx shop that sells them. Said it's pretty much been scalleys in track suits payment in cash buying them. But don't prejudge they are nice boys.
Said it’s pretty much been scalleys in track suits payment in cash buying them
I used to know someone who sold quad bikes. 20% were farmers, the rest drug dealers
These bikes cost the same or less than an ebike and have way better performance and quality. Why would any sensible person by an ebike ? Simple solution is to reduce ebike cost to more reasonable values