How do people get into frame building?

That really is a "how long is a piece of string?" question.....

As a minimum you need a flat surface (kitchen worktop, very thick MDF sheet etc), something to measure lengths and angles, hacksaw, files, paper, pencil and something to stick the tubes together. For joining thinner steels, the only home safe(ish) options are TIG for welding or brazing with propane (smallest Calor camping cylinder will do a few frames) and a second hand medical oxygen concentrator. So that is at least £500 before you can do anything if you can't borrow.

Ceeway for tubes and bb shells etc (cheap plain gauge cromo or Columbus butted).

I made a jig from second hand aluminium extrusion. Sub assembly jigs with bits of wood. 3d model at work lunchtime. Mitres done with holesaw tube notcher or paper templates from various internet sites.

Those Garage Bikes look very nice, but not really made in a garage are they? 🙂

  Maybe photos attached.....

Have you watched any of the 'Blake Builds' vids on GMBN?

He's made a couple of bikes - he made some interesting mistakes which make you think about the process and how you design.

I’d pay for the course if I could come away with a TIG welded BMX or DJ frame,

If you've never tried it before you won't be learning to TIG weld to a decent standard in a few days, especially on small diameter thin walled tubing

Step 1.  Find a radiator.

Step 2. Build a bike

Eh @mickr

Don't know what you mean ......

The upside is you can stick it together using a £50 welder from Lidl 🙂

There was an article in the, (yes, there's a) magazine a few years ago when Chipps went on one of these courses and definitely built a non-roadie frame. His was termed a posh pub bike, I don't see why a decent course wouldn't accommodate something a little out of the ordinary. You should enquire if really keen. I'd like to do it one day and I know what I'd make too! 

Speak to the people running the course, I’m sure they’d be able to tailor it for building what you like. (Maybe not so much if CNC linkages are involved though.

I thought rothair let you pretty much pick what frame type you want to build?

I’d agree with Mick_R — that’s exactly how I’ve managed to build three frames. I really like the brazing approach, as it allows for a bit of error and gives you the chance to file and fine-tune any issues. A brazed DJ or BMX frame would be very achievable and probably a great place to start, especially since you can use sliding dropouts and ease some of the tighter tolerances.

I’d also recommend checking out BikeCAD and having a play with the software. There’s a free version that’s great for experimenting. I ended up reaching out to the developer and got a discounted license on the basis that I wouldn’t be selling any of my bikes — which there’s no danger of!

I’ve not done any 3D modelling myself, but my home-built bike has just survived the Three Peaks CX Race for the third year running, so it can’t be too far off.

I'm fully self taught from YouTube...

The formatting of this thread seems to have gone to pot...

Anyway... I started frame building but packed it in a couple of years back due to a lot of things but mainly money. 

I belive we are both Sheffield based, hit me up if you want to chat through anything / buy all my unused tools. 

a road frame is essentially 9 straight tubes cut and fixed together, maybe with a tiny bit of bending on the stays. maybe ask if you could do a simple hardtail, but even they have extra problems like kinked tubes to accomodate the larger wheels and suspension forks.

a full suss, even a mechanically simple one like a Starling is going to be an order of magnitude more complicated to get all the components and plates and bearing holes done.

Also road bike geo is pretty sorted, theres only about 4 figures you can adjust to your size/preference - so even if you made a high quality, perfectly aligned mountain bike frame, unless you have perfectly replicated the geometry of a bike you like, it might still ride like crap/not to your tastes.

buy all my unused tools. 

Interested if there's no queue being jumped - DM me?

Pre-bent tubes stays etc are readily available from Reynolds and Columbus (with good design, bent down tubes really aren't needed - especially with long and slack frames giving more clearance at the crown). I bend my own tubes as a hobbyist on basic tooling in a shed, so any half decent framebuilding business should be able to do it.....

The first hits on Google all look to have the option of building a non-road frame. If you need tuition, then the first frame really isn't going to be full suspension.

The short framebuilding courses - the five day types - are good (a friend built something fantastic on them) but it's a stretch to suggest they're courses. What I mean is: you're not going to come away able to repeat the process yourself immediately. Yes, for starters there's the opportunity to do it in a well-equipped workshop, where tools, advice, and third hands are readily available. But there's also a lot of knack/manual skills involved in the process, whether it's welding or braising (and the steel-frame builders are largely braising). Those skills are going to take more than one supervised project to get to a decent level. Similarly, on one of the courses I looked at, it's still not entirely end-to-end - you'll find a bunch of tubes pre-cut early on just to save time, etc. And that reminds you how many other things you might not be seeing (eg: somebody else validating your geo/suggestions, prepping jigs, etc).

So whilst they're good, think of them as "get a custom steel frame that you had a hand in building and got to enjoy the process of." rather than "everything you need to know to build frames". It won't turn you into a repeat framebuilder, but it definitely might confirm for you whether or not you enjoy the process. (My friend build a great gravel frame; he was doing it alongside somebody building a hardtail frame). Plus you'll get to put so many questions to a more experienced builder.

@jameso bit difficult to put 2 gas bottles in the post but I'll have a look round at what I have and try sending you a list. 

I was told that a lot of the courses only offer road bikes is because it's far harder / more expensive to get insurance for other frame types. I've approached a couple of local builders who wouldn't even build anything other than a traditional road frame let alone teach someone how to build something that might see the mildest of lumpy road surfaces. 

Honestly if I were wanting to make my own frames at home I would be choosing to learn Fillet brazing (but that's just me), I had a go years ago and sort of got a bit of a feel for it, but never enough to call myself competent. Apparently there's courses galore at colleges and stuff, but I'm buggered if I've ever found a cheap local course covering it. Assuming I found such a course and acquired a useful level of competence, then I'd sell a kidney to cover a decent torch, set of regulators and setting up my Garage to safely house a new and exciting fire hazard (plus some jigs and other useful tools). 

I think there was a bit of a middleclass fad in the 2010s when people would stump up a few hundred quid for a course to learn a skill, produce one frame and then... never bothered again(?). 

There's a few interesting Youtubers worth looking at if you're genuinely into the topic, Paul Brodie of course and the 'Thrifty Framebuilder', Paul Burfords (BTR) recent videos are good too. But much like with wood working stuff on YT a couple of people with plenty of experience, time, space, patience and (expensive) tools telling you something is "easy" doesn't necessarily make it so. Frame building as a "Hobby" Nah, less skilled fabricators make more money doing simpler work, it's a bit more of a "calling" in my book. 

Purely daydreaming at this point but at least once a year I get obsessed with the idea of building a frame.

Why not have a go in bamboo and epoxy?

There a few options of kits you can buy, definitely possible to build an MTB, and it'd give you a feel for using a jig and the angles/dimensions you want, etc. without dropping lots of money on welding or brazing kit.

These guys for example:

https://bamboobicycleclub.org/collections/home-build-kits

How do people get into frame building?

Is your name Dave? I think its a necessary prerequisite that your name is Dave.

There's a few interesting Youtubers worth looking at if you're genuinely into the topic, Paul Brodie of course and the 'Thrifty Framebuilder', Paul Burfords (BTR) recent videos are good too.

Theres so called 'Pauls' are clearly impostors.

@thepodge ha, gas bottles not needed but fixtures, jigs et, certainly interested. Cheers.

Thanks All. I started this thread and was too busy to check back in.

Firstly, I'm not knocking brazing. It's definitely the way to go for the total beginner/home builder. I'd love to TIG weld something eventually but appreciate that it's a whole new skill with its own expenses.

I'm not getting ahead of myself. You can tell by looking at any full suspension frame and the number of components involved that it would be a huge undertaking to fabricate everyting and glue them together. I know that nothing about this would be easy.

I'd probably build something silly to begin with. Maybe a klunker, chopper or a tall bike. Something that doesn't have to be too presentable.

I live near a bike recycling place, I was thinking of dropping in to see what they do with the stuff that's no good to sell. I might have a supply of free frames to cut up and mess around with.

For a first project as an absolute beginner I'd like to put some v-brake mounts on my 22" BMX. It would be good practice to built the boss alingment tool and do some brazing on a cheap bike.

I'm not called Dave, sorry.

@thepodge DM incoming.

You might find value in some of the megathreads over on the LFGSS frame building subforum.

Also, some inspiration in the gallery at the top of this Bikepacking Dot Com article - spun out of their Bespoked Dresden coverage. Some entertaining designs there.

That LFGSS "I am a framebuilder AMA" has good answers to most of the usual questions (good call infovore).

MTBR framebuilding forum was where I found a lot of info but that has died since Walt left / stopped moderating. This was the first full frame I did but the photos have vanished https://www.mtbr.com/threads/29er-e-stay-homebuild.715751/#replies

I've got some canti bosses you can have (had them 30 years so unlikely to ever use) if you DM me. Can chuck in some brazing rod and flux so you just need fire. A plumbing MAPP torch might do them.

I seem to remember a blog where a guy went on a framebuilding course and then built a single pivot full suspension frame in his back garden using one of these:

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08DJ3RFFF/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

Had a look but couldn't find it unfortunately.  But there do seem to be a lot of framebuilding blogs out there.

 @sharkattack  I've got some tubes, dropouts, lugs and other bits I don't need you're welcome to have a look.

I'm also in Sheffield not far from the bike recycling place.

@delibury did I buy some fork crowns off you? 

Not me but there's a few people around here that have tried frame building.

Posted by: sharkattack

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Purely daydreaming at this point but at least once a year I get obsessed with the idea of building a frame.

My thought on the title was more "Why do people get into frame building" when there are so many great frames out there to meet pretty much every cycling need, and people infinitely more qualified than I could ever be to build one should I identify a need that isn't covered.

Posted by: maccruiskeen

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How do people get into frame building?

Is your name Dave? I think its a necessary prerequisite that your name is Dave.

Clearly not always! 😀 

Why do people get into frame building?

Existing builders don't like making things out of the ordinary at a price that lets you experiment with ideas.

Why do people sew or knit when you can buy all kinds of nice clothes? Why paint? Or take photos? Or do woodwork? Or grow veg? etc etc. It is just another hobby or craft, albeit with some investment in equipment. But if you have some transferrable skills then it isn't a big leap.

First framebuild-ish thing was a folding bike to for a degree project in mid 90s.

Then early 2000s kid carrying MTB with long wheelbase, suspension and a 20" back wheel for low c of g. That was on STW pre-hack and was a unique idea back then (plenty of mullet cargo bikes now).

Then a 29er with different geometry to what was available in 2010 - so again couldn't be easily bought.

Then things like teenager sized balance bikes for kids on here. Or a 26" frame for my kid that was 1.5 lbs lighter than an Inbred because it didn't have to pass fat adult fatigue tests.

So basically lots of reasons. 🙂