[Closed] How bloody good is Kirroughtree

I thought the red was a bit meh. Black was fantastic from the top of heartbreak hill down but up to mcmoab I wasn't impressed.

There is (or seemed to be last year) far too many nadgery bits that robbed all your momentum and there wasn't a huge amount of flow until the white witch and rivendell.

Rode mabie this morning and thought that was similar, I honestly prefer Cannock overall. I just wish the surface was more like Scotland there, also the lower traffic level means it feels a lot more natural up here innit.

Ah, the ever elusive 'flow'.

In other words, 'I struggled a bit' 😀

Not been up yet,was going to do the enduro but had no transport to get there,gutted really,might try and get up before the winter kicks in.

I wouldn't bother unless the black is open. It's a good centre without the black, but fantastic with it open.

It was tough riding it blind (many dabs) but to nail it clean would be awesome.

Nice run round the red today and yesterday was Red with the bits used on the Enduro ; good fun . Especially when you live in N/S 🙂

It's a bit flat, like all those ones around there. Gentress and Inners - that's where it's at

I honestly prefer Cannock overall

Well I live 45 mins from Cannock and can't see myself ever riding it again so that's ruined my desire to give Kirroughtree a go

Rode the red and 85% of the black today.
Splendid!

Of all the places I've ridden trail centre wise it's too close to call between Kirroughtree & Inners as to my favourite

I did struggle a fair bit, less issue with mabie, think it's cause my wheels are bigger this year.

Win ram I live 5 mins ride from cannock, I know it's not great, too busy and the surface can't cope, but they've made really good use of the height they've got to work with. Could just do with being a bit more techy.
It's the pointlessly difficult rock step ups at Kirri that wind me up.

Still, it's nice to ride anywhere innit. Love riding my bike I do.

I was there around a year ago and loved it the single track flowed briliantly, the techy bits kept me intrested and the climbs made me a little sticky to say the least, I loved it too.

The only bit I struggled with was the bit before moab (boaring but you cant win them all) and Moab its self had a few dabs and eat dirt at the end.

I thought the red was a bit meh. Black was fantastic from the top of heartbreak hill down but up to mcmoab I wasn't impressed.

It was tough riding it blind (many dabs) but to nail it clean would be awesome.

[i][b]Chest Beating Mode Engaged[/i][/b] 😉

I live less than 30 mins from Kirroughtree and used to ride it many times a week, lap after lap after lap on full auto pilot mode and from leaving the car par to arriving back i never put a foot down - i avoided riding McMoab though as it was too awkward on a rigid SS and the chance of a daft slip and leaving most of my skin on the granite or breaking a wrist was too great and it used to spoil my flow/concentration. Under two hours for my 1st red/black lap was a target every time and subsequent laps after that were usually 5/10 mins slower.

I didn't really work 8 odd years ago so all i did was ride my bike all the time.

These days i struggle to get round the red (old spinal injury) and i gave up on a lap back in June as i crawled up to the Anniversary cairn in my lowest gear and just thought "****-it, this is crap" so i bailed back to the centre and went out for a pootle with the dog instead.

Tiz' a cracking course to ride flat out though, one of my fastest ever laps was a spring full moon nightride with a bit of frost in the air - One of those rides where you get back to the car and you are shocked/confused as to how you got back there till you realise that you had just rode the entire 31km on auto-pilot - i used to love those rides.

Don't worry, i now dab (and usually fall over) before leaving the car park 😀

EDiT : I'm lying…..Thinking back to it i did used to dab on the Judgement Slab after the Stairway to Heaven switchback climb, that slab was just about impossible to climb normally.

^ To much willy waving knackered your back? 😉

I think the problem with Kirroghtree is that it doesen't seem to have matured that well as a trail.

When I first rode it, around 3 months after opening it was fantastic, the best trail centre I'd ever ridden. The black really takes you out into some proper remote terrain and McMoab is unique. The surface was smooth and flowing, like a big endless roller coaster swooping through the forest.

Went back 2 years ago though with very high expectations but was disappointed that the trail has become so rough and nadgery that any real flow was impossible to attain. The only bit that really flowed any more was the final fast blue section on the approach to the car park.

Surely it's just a maintainence issue? It could be a great trail again if it was smoothed out a bit like it was in the beginning. Keep all of the features like the slabs and drops of course, just smooth out the bits in between so you can get some proper speed and flow up between the various technical sections.

SOAP : Yeah, i guess the weight of my humoungus swinging pendulum of a member was just too much for my spine to cope with, not forgetting my rather large ball sack with the added handicap of a few litres swilling about.

Gawd….I'm surprised i managed to squeeze everything into my lycra shorts 😀

Yeah, i guess the weight of my humoungus swinging pendulum of a member was just too much for my spine to cope with

Runs in the family does it?

[img] [/img]

A pic of a bearded man stoking wood?, if i were you i'd clear my search history

with the added handicap of a few litres swilling about.

Fluid?? Is that where you get your "flow" from?

"i avoided riding McMoab though as it was too awkward on a rigid SS..."

So not really a full lap without dabbing then? 😆

Ah, I see. Ae is usually too 'rough' for folks, now it appears Kirro isn't smooth enough for the mincers either.

Jesus wept.

I found Dalbeatie rougher than Ae, my mate did break his hip at Ae though which kinda took the polish off that day

joelowden - Member
Nice run round the red today and yesterday was Red with the bits used on the Enduro ; good fun . Especially when you live in N/S

I used to know a guy called Joe who had a very nice Lowden guitar and lived in NS

Ah, I see. Ae is usually too 'rough' for folks, now it appears Kirro isn't smooth enough for the mincers either.

Jesus wept.

Get real, you go to a trail centre to enjoy it and have fun, to play on some features that you just don't get on natural trails, not to have your teeth shaken out on the flats as well as the downhills.

Why do you think they piste bash the snow in the Alps? A trail centre is an artificial mountain bike piste and should be maintained properly to preserve its flow, not left to degrade (sorry, mature) - that's what natural trails are for.

'I used to know a guy called Joe who had a very nice Lowden guitar and lived in NS'

Full marks 🙂 Who's this?

I rode it again on Sunday for the first time in a few years. It was always my favourite trail centre...and still is. Had loads of flow when I was there, wind must have been blowing in a different direction.

Complaining about it being rough is laughable...

Get real, you go to a trail centre to enjoy it and have fun, to play on some features that you just don't get on natural trails, not to have your teeth shaken out on the flats as well as the downhills.

Why do you think they piste bash the snow in the Alps? A trail centre is an artificial mountain bike piste and should be maintained properly to preserve its flow, not left to degrade (sorry, mature) - that's what natural trails are for.

I reckon that if you think Kirroughtree is rough you need to get real. It's mostly a red/black trail, it's not meant to be as smooth as a babys arse. And regardless, it's not 'shake your teeth out' rough either.

FWIW red and black ski pistes don't have to be groomed either, that's often why they're red or black 😉

Get real, you go to a trail centre to enjoy it and have fun, to play on some features that you just don't get on natural trails, not to have your teeth shaken out on the flats as well as the downhills.

Why do you think they piste bash the snow in the Alps? A trail centre is an artificial mountain bike piste and should be maintained properly to preserve its flow, not left to degrade (sorry, mature) - that's what natural trails are for.

Skiing is a far shout from mountain biking! I'd suggest maybe taking up knitting or sticking to blue/green trails. Reds and blacks should be rougher or there really is little point in them being in existence!

joelowden - Member

"Full marks Who's this?"

Rob, I used to do the IT when you worked on the boats - are you still there? I left 3/4 years ago.

The only bit at Kirri that is too rough is rocky road, and that's fun.

Riding ae in the morning for the first time, will report back if I think that's too rough. Thought mabie was fine, and that was on my halfords 29er HT. Did have my first pinch puncture in years though coming down descender bender, only a tiny one, I was at the top of the scorpion before I realised it was going down, I think replacing my rim tape with ghetto tubeless tape kept the air in the tyre that had escaped the tube.

yo Rob ; what about ye ? R U on FB?
Working at Cal-Mac these days 🙂

Get real, you go to a trail centre to enjoy it and have fun, to play on some features that you just don't get on natural trails, not to have your teeth shaken out on the flats as well as the downhills.

Why do you think they piste bash the snow in the Alps? A trail centre is an artificial mountain bike piste and should be maintained properly to preserve its flow, not left to degrade (sorry, mature) - that's what natural trails are for.

Can I just post this again ^

Made me laugh!.

Tarmac it all I say; keep it flowing and real. I too detest bumpy flat bits, it make my wrists all hurty.

Rode Ae this morning, definitely one for the full sussers.
Loved the new climb up past the wind farm though, nicest climb I've done at a trail centre. The jumps before that were too gnar foe me though, the practice I did at mabie mini x was no help, the take offs were too steep and I papped it.
I can see why people think it's too rough, I was taking a bit of a beating, it wouldn't seem so bad if it wasn't for the jumps showing you just how too much too slow you're going.

I was proper mincey slow down omega man, it doesn't look that loose on YouTube, I could barely hang on.

"lack of flow" = I'm not very good at riding my bike

discuss^^^ 😉

Kirri needs you to attack the trail to get the most out of it imo. Cruising around won't cut it. If you do pump and work the trail though I reckon it's incredibly flowy.

Dalbeattie can be a bit stop start though, not high in the trail flow stakes.

Interesting reading... considering I am moving up that way perhaps 😉

Capt. check out this too -

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/cairnsmore-of-fleet-by-kirroughtree-anyone ]Nearby[/url]

The black really takes you out into some proper remote terrain

The black route crosses an A road. Twice. That's a very odd definition of "remote". Laggan and Golspie are far superior in this respect.

Better riding too in my opinion.

What about intermediate riders though, can we have an opinion? I haven't been riding bikes for long, but love riding trail centres as much as local natural stuff. So far I have ridden Kirry as a rank beginner on a 100mm travel XC hardtail. It was bloody difficult. I then rode Dalbeattie on the same bike, and having been a bit demoralised by my performance at Kirroughtree I was utterly thrashed into a pit of despair at Dalbeattie. What you riding gods forget is that some riders want to be challenged, and definitely will be by rock steps and rock gardens. They aren't all on gnarrcore enduro sleds with years of experience under their belts. My experience at Dalbeattie left me asking serious questions about life, the universe, and everything. A year later I rode Kirry on the same bike, but with wider higher bars and the saddle at the right height, and I still found it challenging, but this time got round it more or less intact.

A couple of days later I rode Ae. That was rough on an XC hardtail. To the point of intimidating in places. The loose rocky stuff with steepish chutes thrown in is testing on that sort of bike, and by the time I finished I felt like I'd been beaten up. Great fun though.

Move on another year and I was on a 140 trail bike at Kirry. Much more confident and better biked I had a whale of a time. SO much so that I thought Kirry was the business. Still do in many ways. It's fast and fun, with some good challenges for us "lesser mortals". Being 50 and needing both hips replacing I have to be a bit circumspect in what I ride, or at least how I ride it. Two days later and I was on a Soul at Mabie in the pissing rain. There's nothing there that I can't ride on the Soul, and loved the fast singletrack stuff, especially Descender Bender and the in trail jumps/whoops.

This year I took the Ibis with me. 160 front 140 rear, and rode Kirry again. Awesome, but still enough of a challenge to get the juices flowing. It did all that I asked it to do, but unfortunately the black was shut according to the notices, so we just did the red. It is far from "Meh". Not for us mortals anyway. At the end of that week we revisited my bete noir, and rode Dalbeattie. It's great. Really challenging for an intermediate type of rider, even though I bottled the qualifier and slab, but there's still easily enough in that first half to challenge and excite. The second half has less to recommend it in terms of adrenaline, with a lot of fire road, but there's a smooth fast bit with jumps and steps in it across the open land at the top, and the last mile is great fun as you come in past Log On Log Off and the playground stuff towards the end. My lad and I have voted it the most fun we've ridden so far.

Another confession. I love Cannock. First time I rode it I was on the Ibis. Too much bike. Next time was on the Soul, which given that this was the second time I rode it, I loved every minute. It has loads of features packed into it, and the wear and tear on the trail means you have to take high aggressive lines through the berms and so on, but on the hardtail ridden as fast as I can, I thought it was mint.

Ooooh - interesting Nobeer...

We are just at the debating it as a leftfield choice at the moment, there are more reasons to go that way than not though. The alternatives being somewhere else in the South Lakes, so it isn't really a choice between two bad locations.

Another choice would be to do [i]the Merrick[/i] , up nr to Glentrool, either park at Glentrool visitor centre and do the first mile or so of the 7stanes trail there and join up to the forest road that will lead you up behind the [i]rig of stroan[/i] to the top of [i]Bennan[/i] hill where the radio mast is, from here you can follow a rough but almost cycleable tussocky path down to the visible path that climbs [i]Benyellary [/i] and once on the path continue up to the [i]Cairn at Benyellary[/i], from there you drop down [i]the neive of the spit[/i] before finally climbing up to the summit of [i]Merrick[/i]. On the way back down retrace the path and continue down from Benyellary to [i]Culsharg Bothy[/i] and either take the forest road to your right (just before Culsharg bothy) that will lead you for 1 mile back to the forest road you cycled in on or continue down the trail to [i]Loch Trool[/i] and then swing a right and pedal the 4 miles on the single track road back to Glentrool visitor centre.

It's a brilliant descent, from the Merrick to Benyellary it's an absolute blast, from Benyellary to Culsharg bothy it's very fast from the Summit of Benyellary then you encounter the shale path as you descend the hill and by this point you'd better have control over your speed as there is switchbacks and water bars to hop, further down it is extremely washed out with massive roots sections but entirely rideable, there is one massive washed out drainage ditch/flood/burn area but it's do-able (just) and the descent is very steep in places. Further down the hill you'll eventually come to a boulder strewn path that is rideable in places but in others it's wiser to lift over, this section is only a couple o' hundred meters before it finally becomes rideable and spits you out at [i]Bruces Stone[/i] above [i]Loch Trool[/i].

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This is taken from nr the summit of [i]Merrick[/i] looking towards [i]Benyellary[/i], the section with the dyke running along is known as [i]The Neive of the Spit[/i]

[img] [/img]

Exactly the same pic as before but zoomed in so you can get an idea of scale

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View from the top of [i]Merrick[/i] looking down towards [i]Loch Enoch[/i] then [i]Loch Arron[/i] then [i]Loch Neidrickan with The Murder Hole[/i], this was in [i]Samuel Crocketts novel titled The Raiders[/i].

[img] [/img]

This is below Culsharg Bothy heading down to Bruces Stone above Loch Trool, stunning views.

There is various other ways to descend from the Merrick but unless you know the terrain i'd advise against exploring, The Galloway hills ain't like the Lake District or the Peak District with their clearly defined paths, I've come across quite a few walkers in states of utter panic as they've tried to navigate for themselves but got totally lost (there's some areas where compasses act funny due to the underlying rock) and unfortunately not everyone knows how to use a compass or read a map or even the terrain correctly.

Do the Merrick, and Cairnsmore of Fleet, you'll not regret it. 😀

If you have a look at a map you'll be able to pick out the [i]italicised[/i] names with ease and plan the route accordingly

My reasons to go list is growing....

A ride I need to do Kenny.... 😆
Capt K there are loads of rides around this area if you fancy a bit of exploring. OS 78&79 for starters + the one Kennys route is on 💡
You do need to accept a fair bit of hiking 😐

Scapegoat has a point re the stw definition of how difficult or otherwise a trail is to ride. When posters on here and other sites ask for info I generally say go try for yourself!

You mean to say you've not done the Merrick yet Trekster?, if there was one person in D&G who i'd have to bet £ on for previously riding this route then it'd have been yourself.

Do yourself a favour and do it soon before the rain/wet weather sets in, at the moment it is bone dry up there and just ideal conditions - i was up last month for an overnight Bivvy on the Merrick wi now't but a Stove for a brew and a 250ml flask full of Balvenie Doublewood - a perfect night with not a cloud in the sky nor a breath of wind, very warm as well so i didn't even need to use the Bivvy bag or the lightweight down bag. Stars as bright as led lights in the sky above me and the milky way was just a humoungus stretch of illuminated night sky, it was one of those nights where you have to remind yourself to breath in as you find yourself holding your breath as the nighttime views were just so eye wateringly/ jaw dropping stunning that you forget what you are doing 😀 (or was that the whisky?)

That was my #1 trip/experience this year, nothing will top it.

Next year?……we'll see what happens as i plan to take 6-8 weeks and ride all the way from Kirkcudbright up through all the Western isles and onto Orkney/Shetland so i should experience a good few sights along the way - i can't wait!...

Hiked it but not biked it! Was running a river when We hiked it...... Next time we hiked it we had a white out whilst practicing a search & rescue with the dogs from Galloway Hill rescue team just before F&M.
Guilty of not exploring the Galloway hills I must admit 😐

Yeah the weather can very suddenly take a turn for the worse, i've had to take cover on a few occasions behind the dyke on the neive of the spit as the wind/rain/sleet or snow howls up the gully and when it is safe to do so beat a hasty retreat back down, what can be a fair day down at Loch Trool can often turn into a situation up on the hillside, the speed at which the weather can turn nasty is always something to be aware of in the Galloway hills and the speed that fog/mist can roll in from the sea has caught me out a few times, they ain't the Cairngorms thats for sure but the weather can be just as wild and unpredictable for the unwary.

Aye, lots of folk underestimate the Galloway hills, as you say, the Merrick has it's own bloody weather system!. Best avoided early morning I reckon, if you want views. I can see it from the office, and it only ever seems to be clear in the afternoon/evening. It's a cracking descent, especially the rocky section coming into the forest.

Scapegoat - great post, very descriptive for anyone who hasn't ridden the western stanes before.

Soma, have you ever ridden the rhinns of Kells? The RoK challenge was on last week, 5 tops from Carsphairn end finishing down toward St Johns town of Dalry. Couple of guys from work did it, not cyclists, and as ever, my interest was piqued by comments of 'naw, ye couldn't take a bike up there' 😀