Hot Wax Curious

Yes, stuff like Molten Speed Wax and, presumably, Silca are clean and smooth to the touch, no oily, grimy marks etc.

The Silca system is ingenious, but really expensive as per all Silca things. The main pro is the chip thing, but if you look at Zero Friction doodah, they're now suggesting using Ceramicspeed's chain degreaser to clean factory lube off new chains, small amount of it sorts multuple chains, which offsets the stupid price. Then just use a cheapo 15-quid slow cooker and whatever wax you like the look of.

I've never used the Silca system, but it does feel like the main advantage is the Strip Chip convenience, but using the Ceramicspeed stuff is really quick and easy and a lot cheaper than the Silca system.

I wouldn't personally go back to conventional drip lubes, once you get beyond that weird cultish obsessive stuff that some chain-waxers seem to get sucked into, it's really clean and very simple. That said, I'm not sure it's optimal in a really wet, super gritty environment, like the Dark Peak over winter.

I'm on the GLF wax from Daz. It's extremely low effort, the only faff is waiting for the wax to melt and then removing before it gets too hot. It's not something to do just before a ride!

I use GLF Wax (half the price of Silca) and a beauty wax melter which has digital temp controls on it. The only time I'm not completely happy with using wax is during the depths of commuting; where rain and road salt can cause rust problems on the outside of the chain. I did experiment with putoline and while it worked; I find the more "just wax" variants much cleaner to work with !

@badlywireddog

ZFC videos are incredibly long, as are the docx.  Is there a summary of their advice somewhere?

I'm guessing the ceramic speed degreaser is the UFO drivetrain cleaner?  so its' a bit cheaper than the Silca prep solvent but not massively.

I'm guessing if you start with a completely new drivetrain it's only the chain that needs degreasing, whereas if everything is covered in, say, smoove residue you need to clean the chainring and cassette as well?

And you can top it up with their drip on lube between wax dips.

I hate to be that guy, but doesn't this sorta defeat the justification for hot wax treatment? That it lasts without having to do top-ups? I mean if you're going to have to do this in between the faff* of chain removal, treatment and refitting...why not just skip that part and drip apply more frequently..? Plus the fact that high-end 12sp SRAM chains are recognisably insanely long lasting -  even with just regular drip lubes, hasn't this [expensive] bubble been burst now?

*Different personal levels of acceptable time involved in chain lube treatments notwithstanding

once you get beyond that weird cultish obsessive stuff that some chain-waxers seem to get sucked into

This is bicycles, I think we're sufficiently 'among friends' here that we can admit that secretly we know and accept; it's all a bit cult adjacent

If you're starting with a completey new drivetrain you can buy pre-cleaned chains from the likes of Inaspin.co.uk who also sell Molten Speedwax products.

In fact, if you want to dip your toes, you can buy pre-cleaned and pre-waxed, so you can try it for a couple of weeks before taking the plunge with the rest of the kit.

Personally I do really rate it although you pretty much have to take the extended drivetrain life on faith unless you're super dilligent about cataloguing chain wear etc.

Not so sure about it for gravel riding, I wouldn't be confident of a waxed chain lasting the distance of a long wet gravel ride, although I got at least 4 hours of pouring rain, river crossings and mud out of one application of MSW, just couldn't be sure how much was left!

Or just buy a KMC prewaxed chain.

@nickc

That it lasts without having to do top-ups? I mean if you’re going to have to do this in between the faff* of chain removal, treatment and refitting…why not just skip that part and drip apply more frequently..?

so, my reading of this is that taking your chain off and hot dipping it means it goes back on clean, and it can be good for some (many?) 100's of miles BUT can suffer if it's really wet/muddy.  That's fine at home, but not a lot of use if you're on holiday.  So having something that I can apply a couple of times while I'm away solves one of my main barriers to waxing now.

Plus the fact that high-end 12sp SRAM chains are recognisably insanely long lasting

interesting.  I've only had Shimano 12sp drivetrains and (unlike 11sp) seems to be a much stronger recommendation to only use Shimano chains.  Which I've not found lasting very long with Smoove.

I'm not sure Eagle chains and Shimano cassettes play nicely together, so it may be moot.

I'll add, perhaps helpfully, that I've had real issues with top end SRAM 12spd chains and hot wax (in my case I am a 6yr now user of putoline) - it just never really got into the chain, would suffer frequent multiple stiff/seized links as a result. Works well with XT chains though.

I moved from Smoove to Silca Hot wax. I've tried Putoline before but found it too soft and gets manky easily. I wonder if Putoline uses the same slack wax base as Smoove.

I was getting really good drive train life out of Smoove so don't expect it to be much better on Silca.

I solvent cleaned my chains pre waxing as this was just before strip chip and their pot were released. A solvent clean means my cheap Crockpot set up works as I'm not having to get to 125°C. Instead, I can wax around 75°C.

I'm running three chains per bike in rotation so I bull wax give chains when they need it.

For holidays, I plan to use Silca super secret to top up if it's dry, or Smoove if it's wet. Smoove is better for longevity when using the hybrid approach but is a different wax base so may contaminate your pot on rewaxing.

If you need to lube mid ride and can't allow drying time for a drip wax, then Silca synergetic is said to be the best stuff.

I've now moved into a two pot system. The first "dirty" pot is around 100°C to melt to old wax off (no swishing in the pot), then move to pot 2 with clean wax to swish the chain at 75°C.

I'm switching chains early, when the rollers get a bit of movement rather than waiting for a squeak.

That's two or three peak rides in the summer and one in the winter.

I wipe down with a microfibre cloth and IPA after every ride. But then I'm a self confessed maintenance tart.

 switching chains early, when the rollers get a bit of movement rather than waiting for a squeak.

Interesting, how do you test for 'movement'?

As in spinning on the pins or just dangling loose?

I’ll add, perhaps helpfully, that I’ve had real issues with top end SRAM 12spd chains and hot wax (in my case I am a 6yr now user of putoline) – it just never really got into the chain

@TJagain - The King of Putoline, I think suggests that it actually works better with cheaper chains, that don't have so fine a tolerance as the wax has somewhere to go, and stays there for longer. I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I'm fairly sure that's his current thinking.

I've just switched from putoline to a DIY wax.

Chain cleaning, yes it does seem to work better with a degreased chain. Give it a good wash in white spirit, then in degreaser, then in meths (or boiling water). It (IMO) doesn't need washing again, just drop it in the wax, sure some grit might get recycled back into the chain, but it's diluted into insignificance.  Probably worth cleaning if you've added wet lube though but I'm not sure either way (it's only something I've had to do so infrequently that I couldn't be conclusive about it.

I hate to be that guy, but doesn’t this sorta defeat the justification for hot wax treatment? That it lasts without having to do top-ups? I mean if you’re going to have to do this in between the faff* of chain removal, treatment and refitting…why not just skip that part and drip apply more frequently..? Plus the fact that high-end 12sp SRAM chains are recognisably insanely long lasting –  even with just regular drip lubes, hasn’t this [expensive] bubble been burst now?

You do and you don't.

The wax outlasts everything else. That's not up for argument, it just does. Which means on almost every ride it'll last to the end, whereas oils or drip waxes wash off before the end of at least some rides regularly and I'm sure it's those last few lube-starved miles that wear out the drivetrain.  And for most people it's 5-10 days out between applications, not a top up every ride like bottle lubes.  If someone finds wax to be a faff then I'd question how effective their current lube is in the conditions that make wax a faff.

Does that mean it'll do the Dirty Reiver in a bad year with no top ups? Possibly not. But:

1) that's once a year for some people, and never for most people.

2) you've still probably made it to the 3rd feed stop without having to top up, whilst your friends stopped at 10miles to begin the ineffectual topping up with finish line gold. And at that point you're battling against a soaking wet chain so anything you add is just going to form an ineffective emulsion* that lasts minutes.

*Or worse, it's so hydrophobic that it just doesn't cling to the wet metal at all.

It's like saying "what's the point in inflating my tyres, if I get a puncture anyway I'll just have to re-inflate them anyway I may as well just ride on a flat tyre (or with a dry chain)". You'd still run an inner tube / tubeless. And I'd say I probably have a ride (or weekend biking trip) where putoline washes off about 1/5th as often as I have to plug a puncture, but punctures aren't an argument against owning a pump.

I’ll add, perhaps helpfully, that I’ve had real issues with top end SRAM 12spd chains and hot wax (in my case I am a 6yr now user of putoline) – it just never really got into the chain, would suffer frequent multiple stiff/seized links as a result. Works well with XT chains though.

Possibly related I had terrible trouble with 12sp flat top waxed chains in muddy cross races last year, to the point that I abandoned them completely. At the time I just put it down to flat top chains, but I have been wondering since, as few others seem to have had trouble with them. Wondering now whether it may be worth some more experimentation with non-waxed flat top.

I've just bitten the bullet on this one for my road bike.  Literally first ride on it today after waxing at the weekend.
After the intial 'badly adjusted derailliuer' noise it then quietened down and was lovely for the rest of the ride.

Have also put a waxed chain on my turbo bike with the prospect of 5 extra watts of friction released from the drivetrain...   Marketing BS, but as I get a breakdown of my power at the end of every race I thought I'd try.   Each race is different, but my sustained power over 3min to 30 minutes was in the region of 3-5w higher than my previous 30 day best.   But, each race is different so we'll see.
There was a pile of wax under the bike though after the first ride...

I used a crock pot.  Initially I started off thinking I had white spirit, alcohol, meths etc in the shed.  But even on a new chain I wasn't sure if it was actually clean of the factory grease.  So when you factor in how much it costs for multiple baths of the stuff, vs the Silca chain stripper (and the fact that will do 15 chains) I went back to the shop and got some and was up and waxing within half an hour.

Long term, interested to see how it works over multiple rides.   If the road bike works well, then next one will be MTB where rides are shorter but conditions harsher.

@stevehine if you want "just wax" then put beauty wax in your beauty wax melter.  Wax sold for recreational purposes is the same stuff.  You can raise the melting point by adding candle wax, lower it by adding clear lamp fuel.

Interesting, how do you test for ‘movement’?

As in spinning on the pins or just dangling loose?

Still a work in progress really. Run my finger along the bottom side and see if they roll easily and then ping it sideways and listen to see if it rattles

@greyspoke - I just meant a chain wax that was more "wax+ additives" that dries clean to the touch rather than putoline which always left a sticky coating for me.

ZFC videos are incredibly long, as are the docx.  Is there a summary of their advice somewhere?

ZEROFRICTIONCYCLING.COM.AU "https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Chain-prep-Guide-Concise-v3.pdf"

and

ZEROFRICTIONCYCLING.COM.AU "https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/CHAIN-Prep-FAQ-Guide-V2.pdf"

Under the 'instructions' tab on their website. HTH. And yes, there's a lot of flannel on that site, but also a fair bit of usefulness.

I've waxed my eldests 7speed chain on his 20" bike. Keeps it clean to touch. I don't think he cares about any performance benefits

Not-so-stealth ad, I've got a block of GLF I'd be glad to pass on for postage.

I switched to MSW to see if it was more durable on wet gravel, jury's still out on that but GLF was definitely good for road bike use (and smells lovely haha!).

A “just waxed” 12speed chain (shimano/the Silca stuff) did a 600km (mostly dry ) tour on my road bike earlier this year. I took drip on wax and some of the “mid-ride” top up stuff but didn’t need to use either…

Also did a 500km off road race on my 11speed gravel bike - it wasn’t dry for all of the race and it needed a re wax/top up at the end…

I’ve waxed my eldests 7speed chain on his 20″ bike. Keeps it clean to touch

oh good, not just me then that wondered if I was disappearing into a hole of madness as I degreased my 3 year olds chain. It’s put an end to that that “ooh no don’t touch that bit or you’ll have to wash your hands / put your trousers straight in the wash”.

This spring and summer I've been using paraffin wax bought off ebay applied using a small wax pot used for hair removal. Nitro cellulose thinners are great for removing the old lube from your chain, cassette and chainrings before wax application.

So far its been great. Lovely doing a bit of bike maintenance and not being instantly covered in black crap from the chain. I bought a second chain and am rotating them. So far I haven't had to clean a chain before re-applicaiton of wax but if you need to then heating it in boiling water will get the old wax and dirt off. Just make sure its properly dry before re-waxing.

Of course real test will be how well it survives Autumn and Winter.

I've been cleaning waxed chains by dropping them in an old drinks bottle half full of warm water and a little squirt of fairy. Thoroughly rinse, quick blast with a hair drying and wrapped in a microfibre towel until I fire up the wax pot again.

I switched to MSW after trying GLF as I thought the GLF didn’t last as long, no real scientific evidence to back this up mind you just didn’t seem to handle the wet as well. Both need redoing after a wet ride but the MSW seemed to tolerate a ride on damp roads better. I’ve got X01 SRAM 12 speed and I never used GLF or MSW when I had Shimano (only Putoline) so I can’t compare how well it gets inside the chain. Interesting that people think the wax doesn’t penetrate. I can say that after wearing out an SLX chain in 300 miles with a drip on lube that XTR and X01 both have lasted over 2500 miles with zero wear using Putoline/wax. In fact I’ve not worn one out yet as I’ve sold the bike first!!!

Saw an email from Silca advertising some new additives including 'Endurancechip' which you can add to existing wax to increase lifespan.

https://silca.cc/en-gb/collections/chain-lube-wax/products/performance-chips?variant=41380417470562

Very tempting to be honest, granted it's another £30 but I would expect to get quite a few waxings over two bikes out of that. Just wondering how bad an idea it might be to chuck it in with my MSW...

I've been using putoline a while, I did experiment briefly with some DIY wax (literally melted candles with a splash of oil and a dob of grease in) which worked, but I have found putoline to last a while. I do have to admit it can be a bit messy if you don't meticulously clean the outside of the chain and in-between links, which has me considering another go at a DIY wax recipe or maybe trying GLF (which is currently out of stock).

Maybe even a bit of a hybrid? Mix some putoline into a paraffin wax for the additives? And/or molybdenum disulfide or graphite?

See above, I've got some GLF to move on for postage costs...

Oooh @13thfloormonk I'll PM you re the GLF.

Yep I've been waxing chains for a few years now..hands down way better than lube IMO. I've tried putoline but prefer my homebrew as it runs cleaner. Doesn't last as long though.

My homebrew recipe is roughly 3 parts paraffin wax to 1 part bees wax, and a good dollop of grease. I tend to make up a new batch of wax every year.

It's really, really cheap after the initial outlay for whatever wax melting device you use ( I use a deep fat fryer)

I have 2 chains per bike and rotate them. Usually means I am re- waxing a few chains at once as a batch which cuts down time taken.

I strip the factory grease off the chain using white spirit. After that I never bother cleaning a chain I just dump it in the wax. All the crap falls to the bottom of the fryer. Whip the chain out, wait a few mins for the wax to solidify slightly then wipe the chain with a rag.

If I've been on a wet ride but the chain is still ok, I'll sparingly spray a bit of gt85 on the chain to keep surface rust at bay.

Drivetrain seems to last absolutely ages

Never going back to normal lubes

@el_boufador

confused by your approach - you're mixing (some kind of) grease into your wax? but cleaning the factory grease off?

And you're spraying with GT85 - isn't that contaminating/dissolving your wax?

I got the recipe off a forum, I can't remember where, years ago. It's only one big ish dollop of grease (3 tablespoons?) in a small fryer otherwise full of wax.

Only spraying with *a bit* (very sparingly) of gt85 after wet rides.. otherwise get surface rust.

Might be dissolving some wax I suppose.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Works for me

Only spraying with *a bit* (very sparingly) of gt85 after wet rides.. otherwise get surface rust.

I spray it on a rag first and run chain through the rag, keeps the chain looking lovely and clean and keeps rust at bay. Can't see how it would remove any of the important wax inside the links

I've got a new 11 speed chain to wax this week while the OH's away. I've never got round to getting a chip fat fryer for it, just heat the tin on the stove, carefully place chain in, shooffle gently for a few minutes, carefully take out, leave to dry on cardboard.

Dumb question, how vital is it to degrease first with meths/ white spirit etc? And how thoroughly are we talking?

You don't want the factory grease contaminating your nice new wax.

You only do it once so it's not worth cutting corners, I think mine had an initial soak in a degreaser beofre a couple of white spirit baths with a further couple in methylated spitrits to finish off.

Dumb question, how vital is it to degrease first with meths/ white spirit etc? And how thoroughly are we talking?

Just because you mentioned heating a tin, is it Putoline or something like GLF, MSW or Silca?

The beauty of Putoline in my experience is that no cleaning is required, but the true wax blends definitely need it I think. I guess over time the old oil/grease would mix with the new stuff so it would probably come good in the end but I bet it starts off a bit of a sticky mess.

Putoline (or, as some wag on another thread called it, Plutoline!) -  a tub I've used 5-6 times over the last 3 years or so.

Ah cool, then I think the accepted wisdom is no need to degrease for Putoline, I certainly never have and got great results

Cool, one less step to have to do.

Which given how much I'm bodging other steps on this rebuild, is a good thing!

I never used to de-grease mine, but then I washed a new chain in white spirit and completely unscientifically it seemed to last a little better. Perhaps the white spirit acted as a kind of flux for the wax? Dunno.

Ok.  First chains going into Silca wax.

What neither the Silca or ZFC instructions seem to cover is rewaxing them.

1) You've ridden the bike through a few filthy rides and it feels like it needs lubing - how do you prepare it before dipping it in your currently lovely clean wax?

2) how do you determine when your wax is 'done'?  presumably the level drops as you wax some chains and you keep topping it up, but you're also getting it dirty when rewaxing.  At what point do you scrape it all out and start afresh?

1) You’ve ridden the bike through a few filthy rides and it feels like it needs lubing – how do you prepare it before dipping it in your currently lovely clean wax?

Even if I've been riding through crap the chain is usually pretty clean. If it's got some surface grime then I'll rinse it with boiling water in a jar a few times, wipe it a bit then leave it to dry overnight.

2) how do you determine when your wax is ‘done’? presumably the level drops as you wax some chains and you keep topping it up, but you’re also getting it dirty when rewaxing. At what point do you scrape it all out and start afresh?

No idea. My next batch of MSW will be my third and I've not noticed any change in the wax.

you’re also getting it dirty

Are you really?

A dirty chain can only add water, which will evaporate from the hot wax, or solid particles which will drop to the bottom of the DFF. If you use the suspended  basket in the DFF the solids will stay on the bottom and not make the wax dirty.

What other “dirt” is there?

That is my slight confusion - ZFC instructions recommend boiling water/compressed air/hair dryer or heat gun to get all the water out of the chain.  Surely easiest just to start the wax at 100C and boil off any water in the chain in the wax?

They also strongly advise not starting with a pre-used 'dirty' chain - "it's common to use 3l of solvent to fully clean a chain that has been ridden", "check after the final rinse the chain is feeling silky smooth - if it feels gritty repeat cleaning", "if the clean is not so great you risk contaminating your entire pot of wax"

But once you've ridden a waxed chain surely you're going to contaminate your pot of wax with greasy road grime or off road filth when you redip it?

Silca recommend using either their gear wipes or biodegreaser if your chain is dirty with a top up of their super secret drip lube. If you want to rewax in their crock pot they also suggest boiling the chain in water for a few minutes to remove the crud. with a quick wipe down afterwards. Chain doesn't have to be bone dry before immersion. Their YT videos are good for all this stuff. Personally I ignore the ZFC stuff (and any others), I use Silca therefore I run with their recommendations. HTH

1) You’ve ridden the bike through a few filthy rides and it feels like it needs lubing – how do you prepare it before dipping it in your currently lovely clean wax?

What I do is swish it in boiling water a couple of times in a saucepan - I don't like the idea of messing about with boiling water in a glass jar - then dry the wet chain with a hair drier on full blast for a couple of minutes while it's sat in a foil takeway tray, then re-wax it.

I figure the possible issue with waxing a wet chain is that every time you heat the wax to a high-ish temperature, it degrades a little.

With road chains/dry ride ones, I'm not particularly fussy, if it's dusty I'll maybe rinse it under a hot tap then dry as above.

But once you’ve ridden a waxed chain surely you’re going to contaminate your pot of wax with greasy road grime or off road filth when you redip it?

I think the contamination from pre-used chains that ZFC are worried about is oil, which risks degrading the wax, rather than fine dirt. With dirt, if there's a little in there, it'll sink to the bottom of the wax I think.  If the chain's really dirty I just wash it in boiling water as above. I cleaned a used chain for waxing once, it took ages. Just not worth the effort imo unless it's only been used a couple of times.

My other tip is to avoid hollow pin chains. They trap wax inside the pins, so you use more wax. Or you can poke it out when dry with a very small allen key and put it back in the pot. There's a surprising amount comes out of a full chain, but it's a hassle to do.

I think it's one of those areas where perfect is the enemy of good. You can get obsessive about the whole process, but by doing that you just make more hassle in exchange for relatively small gains. Admittedly ZFC tends towards the myopically meticulous, which is a shame, as in essence the whole process is quite simple.

Ah yes, for reference the Silca blog

https://silca.cc/en-gb/blogs/silca/chain-waxing-system-and-stripchip-faq

I think it’s one of those areas where perfect is the enemy of good. You can get obsessive about the whole process, but by doing that you just make more hassle in exchange for relatively small gains.

Totally this. Way, way too much over think and over faff in this thread.

Maybe if you're chasing every last watt on the road it matters.

Half the point of this is for it to be simple and to be cheap and all the above analysis paralysis and pissing about is counter to that.

To me, based on my experience as a mid pack mtber, is that all this anal prep stuff almost completely does not matter once the chain has been through the process a couple of times.

Get a couple of chains. Have a bit of a go at degreasing  them if you must (but it's not going to matter once they've been through the process a couple of times anyway).

Stick em in the wax and wipe them off.

Ride them and rotate them.

See what you think and go from there.

Half the point of this is for it to be simple and to be cheap and all the above analysis paralysis and pissing about is counter to that.

Yes.

Cheers for the recipe el_Bouf. I will probably clear out the putoline from my crock pot this weekend and have a go at home-brewed wax again.

I never used to de-grease mine, but then I washed a new chain in white spirit and completely unscientifically it seemed to last a little better. Perhaps the white spirit acted as a kind of flux for the wax? Dunno.

I 2nd this anecdotally.  The factory grease doesn't play well with the wax for some reason.

1) You’ve ridden the bike through a few filthy rides and it feels like it needs lubing – how do you prepare it before dipping it in your currently lovely clean wax?

Personally I don't, I just throw it in and assume the crap gets diluted to insignificance in the molten wax.  But I'm curious to try what others have suggested and clean the chain in boiling water.

2) how do you determine when your wax is ‘done’?  presumably the level drops as you wax some chains and you keep topping it up, but you’re also getting it dirty when rewaxing.  At what point do you scrape it all out and start afresh?

My first batch of putoline went yellow in the end.  I presumed it was the paraffin separating into a layer on top of whatever the darker stuff was.

My new wax is homebrew (paraffin + PTFE + WS2),  I'll see how it goes. but I doubt there's enough grit on even a few years worth of chains to make a detrimental concentration in the pot. And in terms of how much wax is used each time it's tiny (about the same amount as you'd use wet lube).  So even if it's 1-2g per chain, that's probably still 200+ waxes before the level drops to about 1/3 and doesn't quite cover the chain in the pot, probably 50,000miles worth of riding?

Yep, waxed chains don’t get dirty the same way drip lines chains do. Can’t remember the last time I had to boil-rinse a road chain but the gravel chain has had it a couple of times after particularly filthy rides.

I took my chain off at about 300km on the road bike and dropped it in boiling water, the small amount of dirt on it just lifted off.   (each time I rode on Strava I private noted the cumulative distance since last wax)

Then dried it and popped back in the wax.

I don't think it needed redoing, but I was cleaning and waxing a couple of extra new chains and thought while the wax was hot, why not.

Once the initial cleaning factory grease faff of the new chain is done, this was a really easy thing to do.
2 bikes (one on a turbo so no real dirt there) and 4 chains between them.   Even swapping out at 300km each is a big time saver over actually cleaning, drying and lubing a wet lube chain when it gets dirty.

And the rewax can be done at the same time as other things, inside.   Pop it in, leave for 10 minutes doing something else, come back, swish around and then swap for another in the wax.    Instead of labour intensive chain cleaning, usually outside in the cold and dark (and rain).

So far, I'm a convert!