[Closed] Hope SS hub - worthwhile?

Yes, in my opinion - if you're going to use your existing hub on another bike in the near future.

Otherwise just use what you've got with a wide based sprocket. I use a couple of the Hope SS/trials hubs and I can't fault them.

Ta - do you think you notice the quicker pick up?

I would rather have a nice SS hub with a wight industries freewheel bolted on.

I would rather have a nice SS hub with a wight industries freewheel bolted on.

I'm new to this, how does that work and why is it better?

I'm new to this, how does that work and why is it better?

Yes I prefer this approach, too. It's a BMX style hub usually with evenly (wide) spaced and sized flanges, and threads for a screw-on freewheel. Like this one:

[img] [/img]

and this is the freewheel you buy separately and screw onto the hub:
[img] http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/9T9nPR66EboRq4vjREk65ebTCbaWSlTtHFC_9HPeUtR7zLzIUPHDb9ZBJDcMYN0sEaCG2GmirQcWke2sXCqSSGNndFIJe0Svx1ZN1Ir55BwfPo6o2sixPU8XlRUo2ulBukqyWiB3QymW7_BZI0n2swuIuOoMuDkb0tfAsAHWhg [/img]

For servicing, the hub is dead simple usually with just 2 bearings supporting the axle(like a front hub). And the freewheel is a fairly cheap disposable unit although posher ones like the White Industries can be stripped and rebuilt.

In comparison, the Hope hub has more bearings inside (5?) which I'd find a pain to replace since they have to be drifted out carefully with seals/spacers to worry about as well. And if you ride a lot then you will have to replace them fairly frequently (as with any hub).

* is a tad heavier (100g or so, no biggie)
* has a steel carrier body so that's a tad stronger and harder wearing
* has quicker pick-up somehow.

Can be a bit lighter if you get Ti bolts from probolt.
Steel fhub body is worth the weight in return for toughness for ss cog use.
Faster pick up is noticeable /useful, faster the better imo but but not essential.

I got one a while back, I like it, used the same again on a new / second wheelset. Nothing against WI f/wheels, I just prefer option of a cut-cassette for geared rides and the Hope SS seems to be adaptable, reliable and easy to service - just use the axle as a drift and the rest can be done with socket bits or tubes.
I had a DMR revolver before the Hope, nice and simple, but do spend the saving on a good f/wheel since the Shimano ones last about 5 mins.

PS the Hope SS has the same flange spacing as most, symmetric anyway as my wheels use same spokes each side.

Thx Simon - so the hub is in effect fixed wheel, and the freewheel is built into the sprocket?

Are spacers still used on the hub's thread to get the chainline optimal, or does the freewheel just take up all the thread?

(Slight alarm at binning a £70 unit when the cog wears out http://www.whiteind.co.uk/#/eno-freewheel/4533317151)

But I do like the idea of doing this properly. And I ride my SS in typical mud/wet conditions so the reliability is a win.

Faster pick up is noticeable /useful, faster the better imo but but not essential.

I already like the faster pick-up on my (geared hub) SS, I guess that's just from decent chain tension compared to a geared setup. Faster is betterer!

Harder to adjust C-L on a screw-on, freewheel takes up the thread. In terms of reliability, dunno if there's much in it - my Hope SS 2 main body bearings outlasted 4 shimano BBs, a steel rear cog, almost 2 rings and 4 chains in all-year Chilterns clag and Woburn sand. The other ones in the freehub are still going.

I already like the faster pick-up on my (geared hub) SS, I guess that's just from decent chain tension compared to a geared setup.

errr?

I've run both options - each has pros and cons.

The Hope lets you adjust chainline with cog spacers, cheaply change gear ratio / replace worn sprocket and also use it as a 5 / 6 /7 speed cassette for occasional geared use (I do this once a year for holiday in Alps).

However the freehub sealing of the Hope is not as good as the WI freewheel, and I managed to fatigue all the pawl springs within about 9 months of use (redeemed slightly by usual Hope aftersales with a complete new FOC freehub by return post). I must freewheel a lot....

I've found the WI to be very reliable, well sealed and hardwearing. But you are generally stuck to one cog size / chainline (depending on chainset you can still change ratio with chainring or rebuild the whole freewheel innards into a different sized rear cog I guess).

The screw on hubs tend to be quite reliable - just watch out as some come with rather small bearings.

Thx Simon - so the hub is in effect fixed wheel, and the freewheel is built into the sprocket?

Yes that's a good summary. Should give a 50mm chainline I think. Some hubs (Surly) actually have threads for a lockring to hold a track cog on if you actually wanted to try running a fixed setup with a rear disc brake too. But I wouldn't have another Surly due to v short bearing life.

Pick-up speed depends on number of engagement points in the freewheel/freehub. So for a BMX hub it's a function of your freewheel not the hub.

And I find the White Industries last at least 4 times the Shimano freewheels so that's cost effective and less hassle. And they're very nice.

EDIT: Regarding ease of changing ratios with a screw-on freewheel, I have a choice of chainrings if I want to get an easier gear for special occasions (usually 34:17 but drop to 30:17 for mountain holidays).

I've used both Hope SS and a surly hub with White Industries trials freewheel.

Both excellent. Can't really decided which I liked better for performance.

But as my bike takes a hammering I try to go for which ever i can service/replace parts easiest.

Just get whats fits you build the best. Both are better than a standard geary hub.

If you really must then almost all the cheaper screw on freewheels can be completely serviced using £1 of new ball bearings, some grease, a hammer and nail and lots of patience. They rarely actually "die" as people say 🙂

However having done both options (cheap and rebuild vs WI) I perfer the WI....

(Slight alarm at binning a £70 unit when the cog wears out http://www.whiteind.co.uk/#/eno-freewheel/4533317151)

you don't bin them, you rebuild them, all parts are replaceable on WI freewheels and they last longer anyway. But I'm quite partial to the Halo clickster at the moment, costs about £40, is lasting very well so far with no noticeable problems and pickup is quicker than my WI (non trials version).

I already like the faster pick-up on my (geared hub) SS, I guess that's just from decent chain tension compared to a geared setup

this is just nonsense, pickup speed is determined by pawls/engagement points, nothing to do with chain tension. Geared and SS have the same tension on the top run of the chain...

EDIT - realised I forgot to actually add my comments about the Hope hub... very good indeed, but as mentioned, freehub not as well sealed as it could be (have to clean mine out far more frequently than I'd like when riding in proper muck, one awful wet race nearly killed it...) and a bit heavy. But bearings last well, steel freehub is nice and robust and it's nice to have the chain line adjustment options.

If you really must then almost all the cheaper screw on freewheels can be completely serviced using £1 of new ball bearings, some grease, a hammer and nail and lots of patience. They rarely actually "die" as people say

Rubbish I killed three shimano freewheels in 6 months one actually exploded after the steel failed. WI is the way to go. The ACS one wasnt too bad but died eventually too.

WI sounds a good option, uncertain on chainline setting though, how is that done?

this is just nonsense, pickup speed is determined by pawls/engagement points, nothing to do with chain tension. Geared and SS have the same tension on the top run of the chain...

I think your last point is incorrect, tension in the top run of chain on a geared bike is determined by mech tension. If you have a sloppy mech or the chain is bouncing around you will have more rotation of the crank before the chain is straight and transferring power. It will be a small amount but we are already talking in 36ths of a wheel rotation for most freehubs so the difference should be noticable (especially for folks who say they notice the difference in 72tooth pickup hubs).

Geared and SS have the same tension on the top run of the chain...

On my SS the chain (at the tightest point of the crank cycle) has maybe 15mm of vertical movement. I set it that way with the EBB.

On my geared bike it's a few cm.

Stamping on the pedals, that slack's got to be taken up to get the cassette moving.

I think I notice.

I would rather have a nice SS hub with a wight industries freewheel bolted on.

Me too. 8)

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6928673695_37c52b367b_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6928673695_37c52b367b_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/6928673695/ ]IMAG0334[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr

Yeah, me too 🙂

Paul Components WORD disc hub, White Industries Eno freewheel and ZTR Crest 29ers. Bob on!

[img] [/img]

Both are better than a standard geary hub.

Genuine question: How? I mean, I like the idea of the proper tool for the job and I know in theory an SS hub will build into a stronger wheel but I've been SSing on normal geared hubs (Hope and Shimano) for a few years without any problems at all. So what's better (that I will actually notice)?

OK there's a table here and I need a ruler I guess ...

http://sheldonbrown.com/chainline-single.html#chainline

OK, prettier = better but anything else?

frosty wins in the bling states! 😯

You can adjust your chainline at the rings / BB too!

I think your last point is incorrect, tension in the top run of chain on a geared bike is determined by mech tension. If you have a sloppy mech or the chain is bouncing around you will have more rotation of the crank before the chain is straight and transferring power. It will be a small amount but we are already talking in 36ths of a wheel rotation for most freehubs so the difference should be noticable (especially for folks who say they notice the difference in 72tooth pickup hubs).

On my SS the chain (at the tightest point of the crank cycle) has maybe 15mm of vertical movement. I set it that way with the EBB.

On my geared bike it's a few cm.

I think we are talking at cross purposes and you're confusing hub pickup with chain pickup. As soon as there is any pressure on the pedal the tension in the top run is between the teeth on the chainring and the teeth on the rear sprocket, (regardless of geared or SS).

Starting chain pickup is determined by initial starting tension, on an SS you can manually set this easily, but on a geared bike it's determined by the rear mech (as mentioned above) but you can modify this with stronger springs/clutch.
When in motion you're obviously hoping your mech can take up the free chain with sufficient tension and sufficiently quickly (which it often can't)

When you do a quarter turn ratchet style pedal stroke that's where you notice the difference between geared and SS the most, the rear mech doesn't take up the slack quick enough and you momentarily end up with slack in the top run, this doesn't happen as noticably on SS because when you backpedal the drivetrain is simply operating in reverse with no flappy chain on the bottom run to take up, but the pickup of the hub/freehub

Hub/freehub pickup is how far the rear sprocket rotates before a pawl engages, and that's what you compare on freehubs.
When talking about pickup on hubs/freehubs you're talking about the pickup speed of engagement, NOT the taking up of slack in the chain.

Quick pickup hubs are beneficial to geared as well as SS, and it's easy to make a noticable improvement with a quicker pickup hub than it is to try and reduce the chain pickup with stronger mech springs, because even with zero slack in the chain you still have to rotate the rear sprocket until a pawl engages before you have any drive force.

And all this is before we even get into chainring/sprocket sizes and crank lengths and pedalling cadence etc which can also have an impact, especially on geared bikes. The pickup speed of the drivetrain as a whole (how much movement of pedal before drive engaged) is a combination of all the above.

freewheels are old hat, the world moved on.

buy a hope.

When talking about pickup on hubs/freehubs you're talking about the pickup speed of engagement, NOT the taking up of slack in the chain.

Ok well I was actually meaning "what happens between pressure on the crank and the rear wheel starting to move".

Anyway I know a lot more about this now than I did an hour ago, thx for the detailed info.

I especially agree with you on this:

Faster is betterer!

and have spent far too much time chasing the ideal... 120 point engagement trials freewheels are where it's at for super quick pickup (shame they are often poorly sealed), the difference is very noticable and annoying when you go back to standard hubs.

Had a brief flirtation with roller clutch hubs too which were nice, but were heavy and never found a decent disc one.

120 point engagement trials freewheels are where it's at for super quick pickup ... the difference is very noticable and annoying when you go back to standard hubs.

This way lies madness, I'm not an athlete I'm a **MAMIB I should probably walk away now.

**Middle Aged Man In Baggies

I would always stick with a standard cassette-type hub with spacers. A SS-specific cassette-style one (eg the Hope) may look a little neater but it means that the wheel is only any use on your SS - I've certainly found it useful being able to swap my wheels between bikes when I've killed one at short notice before an event,etc. Of course, if you only ever ride SS, that may not be an issue for you.

As to WI freewheels and the like, I'd avoid. My experience is that they're not bombproof and not as reliable as standard cassette type hubs. I've had WI freewheels ruin two big days' riding when friends with them had them fail (different people, different freewheels). I've seen even more non-WI ones blow apart. I just can't see the point except that they look neat. The claimed strength advantages which obviously there in theory, just aren't a real world benefit IMO.