Now that I'm back in hilly Norway descents are becoming a problem, currently running Shimano 105 disc brakes w SRAM XR rotors 160/140 mm and shimano sintered pads (for more power in the wet).
Could the Hope RX4 perhaps combined with their rotors on the front boost stopping power a lot? It's not that I need more max power on 25 mm tires, but I want to have to use less power to slow down. Doesn't help that I'm 90 kgs.
My RX4s aren’t notably more powerful than my Dura Ace 9170s. The GRX levers make more difference -they have better power from the hoods.
Yes, they are awesome.
I'm using them on my Gravel/road bike with basic Shimano rotors - they are well worth it in my opinion - and haul my 100kg to a pretty quick stop.
160 rotor would be my first thing to try.
My RX4s aren’t notably more powerful than my Dura Ace 9170s. The GRX levers make more difference -they have better power from the hoods.
Ooh didn't know about those levers and yes more power from the hoods is what I want the most, bit expensive though but you think they're more cost effective than changing the calipers?
Yes, they are awesome.
I’m using them on my Gravel/road bike with basic Shimano rotors – they are well worth it in my opinion – and haul my 100kg to a pretty quick stop.
So more powerful than stock calipers?
My Ultegra 8050 are as powerful as I’d want given the limits of tyres and riding position. Easily handle my 95kg, 54mph decent down Ventoux, they are amazing.
I’d copy the set up, 160 finned rotas F&R, widest tyres that fit, lowest PSI to still be quick.
Saying that if they start paying me up it’s nice to know there’s a calliper option that keeps everything else.
I’ve got a set of the new RX4+ on order from Hope at the moment as I need a flat mount calliper for my new gravel frame (yes I realise an adapter would be cheaper!! Lol!). Swapping into an oldish Ultegra set up. Obviously yet to ride them but hopefully will be good. I also looked at changing to the GRX shifters but they are a lot of money for a currently nice to have.
This thread has got me looking at the GRX shifters again. £499 for a pair GRX810, shifters only! Wow! I’ll be sticking with my old ones for now.
Have you tried some different pads? I haven’t been desperately impressed by shimano pads lately...
I’ve owned 105 and grx snd can’t say i noticed any significant difference between them.
Change the rear rotor to 160mm first.
You should be using the drops when descending 'properly' so that you are holding onto the handlebars properly and also able to use the brake levers to get more power etc. If you are not doing this first, I would suggest trying this before spending money.
Anyone had any experience going from SRAM to RX4? Currently on 105, but mulling over going to Force or Rival AXS levers, worth changing the calipers?
Have you tried some different pads? I haven’t been desperately impressed by shimano pads lately…
I have tried various organics incl swisstop and shimano, but I find that they all suck more than sintered in the wet and make a lot more noise too.
You should be using the drops when descending ‘properly’ so that you are holding onto the handlebars properly and also able to use the brake levers to get more power etc. If you are not doing this first, I would suggest trying this before spending money.
Indeed, it's partially a setup issue, will raise the stem a bit to make that position more comfortable - I'm set up for time trialing on flat roads.
Have a couple of 105 160 mm rotors I can try also (the SRAM XR screams like a banshee in the front regardless of pad material..something about its resonant frequency on my forks i reckon)
This thread has got me looking at the GRX shifters again. £499 for a pair GRX810, shifters only! Wow! I’ll be sticking with my old ones for now.
I bought some GRX 810 shifters + brakes in November 2020 for £349 from Merlin. Yes, I realise this isn't a desperately helpful comment, but there are / were deals around, maybe have another look in 6 months. In fact I don't even think you can buy a rear derailleur that will work with those shifters at the moment (at least not 1x).
I really like them, but I haven't used any other road bike discs to compare.
I've got some of the original RS685 levers on one bike, and GRX 810 on another. The GRX levers are substantially better braking from the hoods. That said, I've never found the other levers lacking. For steep stuff I'll be on the drops anyway, and there's absolutely loads of power with your fingers on the tips of the lever.
I've never tried the Hope calipers, but I'd be surprised if they made a huge difference as they'll have pretty much the same mechanical advantage as stock.
I have a RX4 on the rear of my bike (with a SRAM Rival on the front, RX4 is on order) it definitely has more bite than the stock SRAM (160mm shimano RT81 rotors both ends) but I think that could quite possibly be down to the pads. doesn't feel any stronger than the Dura ace setup I just removed.
I went from Shimano 105 to Hope RX4's on my road bike. The issues I had with my 105 callipers were that they were just lacking in grunt and after long period of hard braking (lots of steep descents around me) they would vibrate. Went to RX4 and 160 front and rear Hope floating disks. They are much better. In terms of out and out power they are better but not night and day - depends how you define power.
Have given them a good test in the Alps too and they handle long fast descents well. They were a bit noisy on the tight hairpin switchback kind of road, so alot of repeated hard braking to very slow speed but I think that is more of an issue with the frame as vibrating pads are as much to do with a stiff frame than anything.
They came with two sets of pads, organic and sintered. I found the Sintered work better which is the opposite to my preference on my MTB.
But all in all a definite upgrade and step up in overall performance and feel over the 105 calipers.
I have the RS685s on my Amazon #gradventourer, so while I weigh less than 75kg, it'll be coping with the added weight of bikepacking kit. I can't say I've ever found a lack of braking power, either on 700x28 road tyres or or 650x47 knobblies off road. As already said if I'm going downhill fast enough to need a lot of stopping power I'm in the drops.
Seems like the RX4+ can be used with up to 180 mm discs btw, availability is not great however.
I think it’s just current normal Hope 4-6 week lead times. LBS put an order in for me and should arrive in the next couple of weeks.
I’m going to keep my RS685s until they potentially die and then look at a GRX update.
Went from an Ultegra RS65 set of levers and callipers to leavers with RX4 callipers as the Shimano ones kept leaking, including a replacement set. Thought the ultegra setup was spot on apart from that. The RX4s are really good, plenty of power when needed. They’ve been fit and forget for a good few years now.
The RX4s are really good, plenty of power when needed. They’ve been fit and forget for a good few years now.
They are, once they're set up. Getting all four pistons aligned isn't the easiest job, and bleeding them takes a while. But once done, they work great, and are noticeably more powerful than the Tiagra-level hydros on my gravel bike. I think the organic pads have a bit more bite and seem to last well enough.
Better start saving up for RX4+ 180mm front 160mm rear with hope rotors and GRX levers then..
They came with two sets of pads, organic and sintered
The pads are Galfer for Hope. The blue are galfer “road” compound. The red “standard” which are the same as the regular E4 pads. Neither are sintered.
Leaked oil onto my rear from the silly bleed grub screw and currently running a white Uber on the rear.
The pads are Galfer for Hope. The blue are galfer “road” compound. The red “standard” which are the same as the regular E4 pads. Neither are sintered.
Interesting - the red pads took a lot longer to bed in than the blue, which I had assumed was because they're sintered.
Sorry - red is 'advanced' rather than 'standard'
Did you notice any difference in feel?
I'm intrigued at to what characteristics Galfer intend for a road pad vs an off road pad as their guide doesn't really give that much idea
Sorry – red is ‘advanced’ rather than ‘standard’
Did you notice any difference in feel?
Not a huge difference but I think the blue pads have a bit more initial bite. I haven't tried the reds in the wet yet. I only fitted them because I forgot to remove the blue pads when bleeding - d'oh! They did take quite a few runs down my street before they bedded in.
The pads are Galfer for Hope. The blue are galfer “road” compound. The red “standard” which are the same as the regular E4 pads. Neither are sintered.
Meant synthetic not sintered, but was only guessing as they seem to be the tow options for brake pads. One set definitely worked better than the other.
Better start saving up for RX4+ 180mm front 160mm rear with hope rotors and GRX levers then..
Pretty sure you can only run 180mm if your fork is natively 160mm.
Pretty sure you can only run 180mm if your fork is natively 160mm.
My fork lets me switch between 140 and 160 mm, my understanding is that the RX4+ +20 mm version will turn that into 160 or 180 mm.
My fork lets me switch between 140 and 160 mm, my understanding is that the RX4+ +20 mm version will turn that into 160 or 180 mm.
I'd be more worried about whether the fork is rated for a 180mm rotor.! Aren't most road forks only rated to take up to 160mm.?
I’d be more worried about whether the fork is rated for a 180mm rotor.! Aren’t most road forks only rated to take up to 160mm.?
I'd guess so, but with 25mm tires I figure you're so limited by traction that it won't be a problem? I'd be more worried with 30mm +
My fork lets me switch between 140 and 160 mm, my understanding is that the RX4+ +20 mm version will turn that into 160 or 180 mm.
No, it will only be 180 on a fork that has the mounts spaced for 160/180, not 140/160 forks.
I have the plus +20s on 160mm with no adapters..I'd assumed if I used the 140/160 adapters that my old Shimano calipers used I'd be able to fit 180mm?
(No intention of doing so, just curious)
more power? it's a road bike with skinny tyres. you have plenty of power, your issue is traction.
more power? it’s a road bike with skinny tyres. you have plenty of power, your issue is traction.
That's A issue, but the issue here is somewhat underpowered brakes during long descents when the rotors heat up, made worse by having an aggressive setup not well suited for being in the drops going downhill, so I tend to stay on the hoods. A stronger brake would make such descents more fun and controlled.
Interesting, you spelled “getting on the drops” as “a stronger brake”.
Ha-ha. Maybe if I do this.
more power? it’s a road bike with skinny tyres. you have plenty of power, your issue is traction.
Not sure I agree - there's plenty of grip on a dry road, and road bikes are braking from far higher speeds than an mtb. I've managed to induce fade a few times on road disc brake setups, can't remember doing it on the mtb.
I’ve managed to induce fade a few times on road disc brake setups, can’t remember doing it on the mtb.
Exactly this.
The only time I’ve induced fade on my road bike brakes is when I’ve dragged my brakes on a long descent when I’ve been on the hoods.
I’ve learned not to do this and descend on the drops so I can brake properly.
I have RX4 on my winter bike and they are great as they give better braking control. However, I only replaced the 105 Calipers as I was sick of Shimano micro-leaks.
I’ve learned not to do this and descend on the drops so I can brake properly.
I was descending on the drops when I induced fade. Maybe I was going faster than you.
Decided to go with Shimano MT900 rotors, finned pads in front for the whole ice tech experience and rebleed with OEM shimano mineral oil as i suspect the one i have might be dirty lowering its boiling point. Have a real problem with front brake fade then howls on even short 2 min 15% descents..
Maybe I was going faster than you.
Alternatively you were braking more or are heavier.
When I were a lad....and carbon rim brakes were all the rage dragging your brakes had an expensive (new rim) punishment
Saw the aftermath of some lightweight wheelset rims after one over brakes run back down Alp du huez......scrap.
..At a certain weight and incline you also don't have any option but to drag your brakes unless you want to hit 110 kph and die where the end of the hill abruptly ends in a 90 degree turn lol.
^^^^not so sure...brake hard early...read the road...I (sort of) ski and think its sort of similar- lose speed before you need to or deal with it
...as to dragging disk brakes last time was in the french Alps hire shop insisted I bring bike back midweek for brake pad check - I guess a lot of people do drag
..At a certain weight and incline you also don’t have any option but to drag your brakes unless you want to hit 110 kph
110kph without pedaling. Reckon on about 200kg and a 15 degree slope with minimal CdA
If your pedaling to 110 knowing there's a 90 degree corner coming then you should probably reconsider life choices before changing the brakes.
Ultegra calipers are cheap at the moment. I've never felt under-braked on my 8070 with 160mm front and rear and Shimano resin pads. Personally I'd look at fixing what you've got before spending a fortune on a Hope brake that might not make much difference.
As others have said though you should really be braking with your hands in the drops. Only takes a bit of water or grease on the hoods for your hand to slip off while trying to squeeze the brake.
Turns out MT900s are sold out everywhere, MT800 is cheaper and whiter, exactly the same rotor it seems and a bit more avail. For now went back to my 105 RT-70 160 mm rotors front and back, and will rebleed with shimano mineral oil plus get finned pads for the front..
RT-70 is a world better than SRAM XR centerlines, no noise, no fade, better power.
RT-70 is a world better than SRAM XR centerlines, no noise, no fade, better power.
I'm sure I mentioned this on your original thread 🙂
RT-70even unclipping and jamming your foot against the tyre is a world better than SRAM XR centerlines, no noise, no fade, better power.
Semi interestingly, it seems like the XTR/Saint RT99 rotors may be the very best design Shimano has made in terms of cooling power, but they're ugly and they went for a sleeker cooling fin "freeza" design for their MT800 and 900 series - but It looks like it not as good as the RT99 design which also adds another spider arm for the 160 mm rotor.
I'll get 160 mm MT900 front and back with finned sintered pads, rebleed with shimano mineral oil and call it a day - should be adequate and poss allow for better cooling than a Hope setup. To tease out a few percent more performance for a lot of money GRX levers should offer a bit more leverage.
Alternatively you were braking more or are heavier.
When I were a lad….and carbon rim brakes were all the rage dragging your brakes had an expensive (new rim) punishment
Saw the aftermath of some lightweight wheelset rims after one over brakes run back down Alp du huez……scrap.
I've descended AdH a couple of times without incident, so I'm fairly confident my technique is fine.
