Wasn't a option they offered and don't think I've ever co e across qr 110 but don't doubt somewhere obscure it exists.
What is the metal looking bit on that seal damage photo?
Are new seals metal backed? If that's the case, how do you get them in?
Or is it a bit if swarf stuck on the seal?
I have had the issue sadly on E4 tech 4 ....first set was just the rear but second set both had the issue .
Second set also had the rear clicking lever .
Sent them to hope for repair then sold them .
Worryingly I've just received a pair of F22 in silver for my birthday and the first ride the pedal squeaks.
Removed it yesterday and the right pedal Bush wasn't seated correctly and no grease on the axle.
Not what I usually expect from hope
The Hope’s appear to have absolute performance though and they’re completely serviceable and rebuildable for their entire lifespan.
I’ll take a minor inconvenience over throwing my brakes in the bin.
I take what you’re saying completely especially the non disposable nature of it, but for someone like myself, time starved and without the skill, patience or time to undertake anything other than basic servicing, things like stripping a brake down and replacing seals pistons etc isn’t what I’d expect on a brake of any price let alone a premium product. I want fit and forget. I like the serviceability but with a view to getting many years out of them not fixing an issue within months.
What is the metal looking bit on that seal damage photo?
Thats the piston itself. plastic middle(ok its not actually plastic, but i cant spell phe.. 😆 ) with the stainless steel outer, its that outer bit you can see.
Are new seals metal backed? If that’s the case, how do you get them in?
According to the exploded diagram on the Hope site,the seals are the standard as before on the tech 3 X2,E4,V4 calipers.
This is the bottom of the new T4 piston, and its got either a chamfer or roundover on it, so i cant understand how it is catching the seal when being fitted.
Dyna-ti, eh, he's referring to the pic of the caliper with the piston removed from it, so your answer makes zero sense. I was wondering the same thing as onzadog.
Are we talking about this? I interpreted that as a hole pulled in the seal (and the seal twisted) so you can see the metal of the calliper bore behind it.
But the bore is anodised black with the rest of it. Looks to me like it's on the surface.
I sense theres now irony in the threads title.
Yeah that looks like swarf on the top of the seal. That absolutely shouldn't be there.
I sense theres now irony in the threads title.
I was thinking that. Shame to see all these issues as the reviews were so good. I do have a high level of confidence Hope will get it sorted though.
Does it? Looks like the inside of the seal to me as to the left you can see what looks like the silver continuing under the rubber and it looks like the rubber has been deformed away. I always thought the seals where just rubber though 🤷.
For balance, absolutely no issues with my tech 4 e4s that I’ve had on for a few months now! Not sure if I rate the green pads though, think the reds are a better all rounder
Does it? Looks like the inside of the seal to me as to the left you can see what looks like the silver continuing under the rubber and it looks like the rubber has been deformed away. I always thought the seals where just rubber though 🤷.
They are just rubber. As I said, that's swarf and not supposed to be there. It's a flat flake rather than a chunk but either way it's still going to impact seal performance.
I checked my E4's at the weekend and they're bone dry so hopefully I don't have this problem.
I know it's a bummer for those who have had to mess around waiting for replacements. Still though, of all the manufacturers to have an issue with I'd rather it were Hope than anyone else. I trust them to sort this out and everyone will be enjoying amazing brakes asap and hopefully for the foreseeable future. And I'm no fanboy, I've been very critical of them in the past.
How long have Shimano been churning out brakes with the famous wandering bite point? And Sram with the plastic pistons that get stuck when the sun comes out? 10 years or more, with no solution in sight?
I’ve had multiple very prompt replies from Hope support this morning and they’re happy for me to send them in for repair (although postage is at my own expense).
It definitely sucks but if they come back working perfectly then I’ll be happy overall. I’m well aware that any product has some rate of failure and that you only tend to hear from those people in forums, not the probably 1000s who have no problems.
I’ve got a set of tech4 e4 with no issue.
Very happy with the power and feel.
It wasnt metal, just a reflection from the oil on my phones flash!
It wasnt metal, just a reflection from the oil on my phones flash!
I was going to suggest that, as you can see the light being reflected in a straight line down, in line with that bit on the seal.
Hope you get these sorted, though its a bit of a joke that you need to pay postage given this is something Hope have caused.
It wasnt metal, just a reflection from the oil on my phones flash!
Doh! 😳
Hope you get these sorted, though its a bit of a joke that you need to pay postage given this is something Hope have caused.
I thought so too, but actually Biketart came through brilliantly and arranged a same day collection from my house, next day delivery direct to Hope for me 👍 I’m hopeful that they’ll resolve it quickly, I’ll let you know.
My brakes are back basically as quickly as they could be (arrived at Hope on Tuesday, shipped back on Wednesday, arrived with me on Thursday). They've had a full set of new calliper seals fitted and a new set of green pads installed. I can't see any leaking around the pistons this time so I'm hopeful they'll be good now.
Good service from Hope and Biketart 👍
Yep mine was delivered to Hope yesterday, got a FedEx email for a delivery coming back to me tomorrow. Tbh the longest part was Yodel delivering it!
I'm expecting the same on mine, new seals which will be the fix. Still need to clean up my disc which I'll do at the weekend or tomorrow if I have a quiet day at work!
Any comments on how the new pistons hold up over time either in new brakes or retro fitted as replacements for the phenolic ones in older brakes?
I've seen the comments in this thread about how easy they are to push in, and Hope say they should need much less maintenance, but it'd be good to hear from someone who's riding with them in grotty conditions regularly and doesn't use an air line to dry their bike after every ride. There's a lot I like about my tech 3 E4's but I do get fed up of the sticky pistons on them. I've fully stripped and rebuilt the calipers a couple of times, but they rarely go more than a couple of grotty rides without needing tweaking again. Would the new pistons help, or are they just going to rust and stick like the old ones if not dried properly every time the bike goes away?
Any comments on how the new pistons hold up over time either in new brakes or retro fitted as replacements for the phenolic ones in older brakes?
I was on tech3s and went to tech 4s when they came out.
6 grotty months of winter riding and they are still slick and smooth
That's great, thanks Kimbers
I have some tech 3 on my hardtail and have noticed there is sometimes a dribble of oil near the pinholes on the top caps. I know there's a rubber diaphragm/seal under the top cap. Will this just be excess that ends up between the two when re-fitting them after a bleed? I'm guessing it shouldn't be there but a bit puzzled as to why it is. Anyone else had this?
First ride on tech 4 e4 today. Tons of power and tons of modulation. Took a while to get them dialled in to what I wanted but they're superb!
I have some tech 3 on my hardtail and have noticed there is sometimes a dribble of oil near the pinholes on the top caps. I know there’s a rubber diaphragm/seal under the top cap. Will this just be excess that ends up between the two when re-fitting them after a bleed? I’m guessing it shouldn’t be there but a bit puzzled as to why it is. Anyone else had this?
Yeah I've seen this too, it's normal. My bars are turned 180 degrees and my bike is hung by the front wheel so my levers are upsidedown - I've only seen tiny bits of fluid by the holes. It's just excess brake fluid on the top of the diaphragm.
Another day of riding steep tech all day on fully fettled, properly bedded in E4's.
They're mint aren't they? They're what I always wanted Hope brakes to be.
I know I'd be less impressed if I had to mess around with replacement calipers and stuff but I haven't so, objectively speaking, they're excellent.
My only problem is that I'm going to need them on my other bike.
My only problem is that I’m going to need them on my other bike
Funnily enough, the thought did cross my mind.
I've not been put off yet, they're on my birthday list for the wife 😂 just gotta wait until April
Couple of rides in now on my V4s. Can't see me wanting anything else from a brake, rakes of power and modulation to boot.
Looking forward to hitting some long descents.
I was happy with Tech3 E4s beforehand, but these really build on the modulation that Hope have and add more power 👌
Well, I've just returned my Tech4 V4s.
I got them back from Hope with new seals, mounted them to the bike, carefully set them up without trimming the hose and no matter how I tweaked and adjusted them could not get the lever free stroke down to a level comparable to the Tricksuffs they were meant to replace and a big reason for replacing them was that I imagined the bite point adjuster would let me tune that down further.
I spent the next hour giving the Direttissimas a really careful clean, bleed and re-setup I think that the Trickstuff are just plain better, they feel amazing now and I could not get the Hopes close.
Assuming the power is similar (which I don't have an answer to because I wanted to keep them returnable) they seem like great brakes, I guess the second best you can buy. It's a shame, I wanted them to be better or at least the same.
Blatant ad: If anyone wants the silver levers that @tomhoward sold me then let me know.
hmmmm this is interesting just popped back in this thread - i wonder if this is why my rear brake screams like mad at the drop of a hint of water?
my front is totally silent (ive tried swapping everything around, even a new rotor and it does it still) wondering if the caliper is slightly leaking - need to investigate it now a bit closer
i thought/think its totally odd as the front is completely silent no matter what the weather!
Mine were honking only when cold, once warmed up they were fine.
Should be easy to check if there's any contamination on the rotor. The green pads are fairly easy to sand to get rid of any glazing too.
Mine came back, said they'd had a caliper service which I think is new seals at the least. I'll keep an eye on the discs but can't immediately see any fluid.
yeah thats exactly what my rear one is like, any hint of water/damp and its howling until it heats up - front no matter it goes through or temps etc is completely silent
did them fixing remedy the noise then? have they made any sounds in the wet/cold since then??
did them fixing remedy the noise then? have they made any sounds in the wet/cold since then??
Haven't been out since refitting them, I put in a fresh set of green pads I had, bedded them in and did have some strange warbling - however I then sanded the pads, re bedded in and that's gone.
100% my noise was caused by rotor/pad contamination so it'll be a while before I know if they're fully fixed.
Any update on the noise @ta11pau1 ?
I’ve been out today and it’s wetter than wet out, and my god my rear brake hasn’t shut up all day, once it was wet it never recovered only when I’d really done some hard braking, but as soon as it cooled down again it was back to squealing
Still the front is absolutely silent no matter what it goes through!
I am starting to think it is contaminated from some leakage given I’ve tried a new rotor new pads everything’s aligned (spins for ages freely)
Think I’m gonna see if I can send it in for inspection
Hi,
What thickness rotors were you using ?
In theory they would be set up from the factory for the thicker 3mm vented rotors, so to get a firmer feel if using thinner rotors would need to bleed with the correct bleed block, I’m using 2.3mm thick rotors and bled them with Shimano blocks, really good feel to them and still has really good pad clearance.
what rotors are everyone using with there new tech 4 e4? or even v4? (although i assume the v4 is designed around a thicker rotor?)
sadly i cant get a floating rotor to fit my hub/frame combo out back, i could spacer it out with a pedal washer on the rear axle, but i remove my back wheel ALOT so no doubt im going to lose the washer at some point before a ride then have no carbon left on my rear brake mount!
interested to hear what other rotors people are using with them
Haven't Hope started making 2.3mm 1 piece rotors? Just use one of those. I'm waiting for them to start fitting the 2.3 rotor to the alu spider but I don't see it happening any time soon.
what rotors are everyone using with there new tech 4 e4? or even v4? (although i assume the v4 is designed around a thicker rotor?)
The v4 can use the vented rotor but it works completely fine with the standard non vented.
Haven't been out on my bike for a couple of weeks, that nice dry spell we had didn't last and it's miserable here now, gagging to get out too!
ok keep us posted as to whether your noise disappears too when you get back out - im tempted to put some sram HS2 rotors on as they are 2mm thick - so should give a little more bite too
E4 a here. I’m using my standard SRAM centreline rotors. No issues to report.
cool good stuff - how does the noise fair on them in the wet?
Hi,
What thickness rotors were you using ?
In theory they would be set up from the factory for the thicker 3mm vented rotors, so to get a firmer feel if using thinner rotors would need to bleed with the correct bleed block, I’m using 2.3mm thick rotors and bled them with Shimano blocks, really good feel to them and still has really good pad clearance.
I'm using 2mm Sram HS2 rotors. I don't think that rotor thickness changes require a re-bleed though.
With a thinner rotor the pistons should advance further, taking some fluid from the reservoir to keep the system full. The amount of pad retraction is what governs the free stroke and that comes from the piston seals flexing when the brakes are applied. I think what you may have is an overfilled system which is a thing some people do like to do to remove some free stroke but it means you need to be careful not to push the pistons all the way back without opening the system.
Good tip though, and definitely a good way to tweak feel if you're in the know!
how have you got on with the hs2 rotors @appltn - i know you sent your v4 brakes back but assume youve used them on another brakeset also? are the quiet, and is the extra width noticeable for a bit extra bite?
I am using Tech E4's with 2.3mm Intend Massive rotors (180mm both ends). Perhaps a little more bite than regular rotors but not night and day like I was expecting; brakes are plenty good enough with standard width rotors I think.
cool good stuff – how does the noise fair on them in the wet?
Maybe the odd squeak but nothing out of the ordinary. Running red pads at the moment.
I am using Tech E4’s with 2.3mm
Ah that's interesting. I wasn't sure they'd work with thicker rotors as it already seems very close on my Shimano rotors. Maybe I'll grab some 2.0mm rotors. Very tempted by the galfer sharks, though they're very pricey!
CalamityJames
Full Member
I am using Tech E4’s with 2.3mm Intend Massive rotors (180mm both ends). Perhaps a little more bite than regular rotors but not night and day like I was expecting; brakes are plenty good enough with standard width rotors I think.
thats cool least i know the 2mm hs2 will be fine fitment wise then - yeah i need some new rotors so ill likely just get some of the new hs2 - ideally wanted to go floating hopes but it just wont work without faffage
razorrazoo
Full Member
cool good stuff – how does the noise fair on them in the wet?Maybe the odd squeak but nothing out of the ordinary. Running red pads at the moment.
thanks good to hear
how have you got on with the hs2 rotors @appltn – i know you sent your v4 brakes back but assume youve used them on another brakeset also? are the quiet, and is the extra width noticeable for a bit extra bite?
No complaints at all. I've been using these same rotors for about 10 months with both trickstuff power and galfer green pads and they've always been silent (like I've never heard a single noise from them) and had great bite (although I think that's supposedly down to the design of the cutouts rather than the thickness). It took a bit longer to get them perfectly true versus a 1.8mm rotor but the payoff is that they've stayed true ever since.
I appreciate that this is a dangerous thing to say here, but I recently tried a set of Tech 4 V4s and really didn't like them. However. . . I reckon it was mostly down to the way they were setup so the bite point was really close to the bar. Is it possible to set them up with them biting a bit further out, but also having a nice short level throw?
For reference, running XT levers with TRP Quadiem calipers at the moment. Nice short level with short throw, but not as solid a feel as a full Shimano setup. However, they've also had the wandering bite point fun recently (probably fixed but tbc) so looking at less frustrating options
However. . . I reckon it was mostly down to the way they were setup so the bite point was really close to the bar. Is it possible to set them up with them biting a bit further out, but also having a nice short level throw?
In simple terms, yes. I don't like my levers biting to close too the bars and I like as little free movement as possible. There's a huge amount of adjustment in the reach knob, and once you've set the pistons up (caliper alignment is crucial in this) the bite point adjustment can bring this down to a cm or 2 max. The E4 will have less free travel before the bite point due to the smaller piston size too, so that might be an option.
appltn
Full Member
how have you got on with the hs2 rotors @appltn – i know you sent your v4 brakes back but assume youve used them on another brakeset also? are the quiet, and is the extra width noticeable for a bit extra bite?No complaints at all. I’ve been using these same rotors for about 10 months with both trickstuff power and galfer green pads and they’ve always been silent (like I’ve never heard a single noise from them) and had great bite (although I think that’s supposedly down to the design of the cutouts rather than the thickness). It took a bit longer to get them perfectly true versus a 1.8mm rotor but the payoff is that they’ve stayed true ever since.
great info thanks! sounds good hopefully will be a little quieter too then once i get them fitted
are the green pads you use in your trickstuff these ones?
are they not the same as the green pads supplied with the hope brakes?
@oscillatewildly Just as another option, I'm using Galfer 2mm Rotors with mine, bought from Rush. They seem pretty good to me, though I did bend the first front one which I couldn't bend back after crashing into a big lump of Lakeland slate!
Is it possible to set them up with them biting a bit further out, but also having a nice short level throw?
From my perspective, these are the brakes that I have used which I have been able to set up with the lever feel you describe (I've also owned Tech3s, Code Rs, Guide Rs, Formula R1s, XTs).
Cannot comment on the factory bleed as I have shortened both hoses when fitting. Using SRAM centreline rotors (so not the posher thick ones). I bled the brakes with the pads in (risky I know, but using the proper Hope bleed kit I can do it without spilling fluid on the caliper body - it's done this way in the Hope bleed vid). I did have to do the front twice as must have still had some air in it the first time which was OK for the immediate ride, but got into the caliper between that and the following ride.
great info thanks! sounds good hopefully will be a little quieter too then once i get them fitted
are the green pads you use in your trickstuff these ones?
are they not the same as the green pads supplied with the hope brakes?
The Galfer greens that I've used are the same compound as those but a different shape - Trickstuff updated their caliper design to take a Sram Guide shaped pad.
I believe that the newish Hope green pads are not the same though, they're certainly not manufactured by Galfer and Hope are tight-lipped about who does manufacture them. I remember reading (maybe even in this thread somewhere?) that Hope's green pads are manufactured by the same company that make Trickstuff pads though I don't know if that's true or not.
@fathomer - nice one ill check them out too - they look reasonably price also - looks like a cool design and 2mm thick so should get the extra feel at the lever
@appltn interesting, i just assumed the green pads were galfer, as i think the red ones that come with the brakes actually say galfer on the backing? (could have imagined that though!), so just thought the greens were the same too - cool i might get some ordered then to go with some new disc rotors if they are good, the front feels fine and is quiet all the time, but the back once it gets a drop of wet just wont shut up, im going to check over the caliper tonight to see if i can see any oil weeping out, as it would explain the noise somewhat...
I thought that too, but an interview with hope somewhere on this thread revealed the greens were truckstuff ones iirc
ah right must have missed this then, ill try some of the galfer ones linked above see what they are like, the greens that came with them were ok the brief time i tried them but i preferred the feel of the reds tbh - but ill give these green galfer a shot as my reds are getting low now anyways
I’m pretty sure this is also linked somewhere in the depths of the thread but this podcast episode with a hope engineer is where I learned that the green pads aren’t galfer.
There’s lots of other interesting stuff in there too, I listened to it twice because I’m a nerd.
Alrighty the power of 4K is pretty mad
Is this the issue we’re speaking of guys?
https://youtube.com/shorts/nKEcEGdf5PY?feature=share
If you look at the piston closest to the camera watch every so often as I press the lever you’ll see bubbles or pockets of something coming through?
This is the only logical reason why I can see my back brake squeals like mad in the wet and the front is silent, for what it’s worth I check the front caliper and there’s no bubbles anywhere so logic makes me think this is leaking slightly on the back rotor or just about getting to it and dripping down slightly eventually on the rotor
Yep that's what was happening on mine. Have you checked your rotor? If it's brake fluid contamination it should be very easy to see.
That does look to me like it's letting out a very small spray of oil about every second pump.
It's on the outboard side so should be very easy to pop the piston out and check the seal.
I'll add that I've bought a seal kit and will buy a bore cap too so I'll replace my own seals if it happens again, the advantage of Hope brakes, fully rebuildable myself!
I haven’t checked the rotor tbh they are pretty worn so could be harder to tell
But yeah pretty much every other pump a little pocket of bubbles/oil appears then goes back in
I’ll fire a email across to hope see what they say, luckily it’s only ruined a rear older rotor I guess luckily I’ve not had the new ones delivered otherwise they’d be getting contaminated too
I’m not savvy minded on rebuilding these tbh so I’ll see what hope say, if they won’t warranty it/fix it I’ll get the shop to do it I think to be safe
I knew the squeal on my back brake wasnt normal and with everyone else saying there’s are quiet too…
Thanks for confirming for me guys I’ll report back when I have a answer
update - sending back to hope monday, have aske to send in for inspection whatever that means (hopefully a full rebuild)
they werent convinced its oil seeping, said its possibly the silicone lube, so will have to see, i wiped the piston over and over and over to remove any left over silicone lube, then when i press the lever again, the bubbles appear and somethings obviously coming through? surely even if it was just silicone lube there should be no air bubbles leaving the piston area? or am i being dim?!
When I sent a set back to them they suggested it could be the silicone lube too - they still came back with a full set of new seals so I'm guessing they decided it wasn't that after all.
@appltn - ahh thanks, okey doke, well that makes me think its worthwhile sending in then, had visions of them just looking at it and going no its lube, and sending it straight back, if it gets a full rebuild regardless then its worth sending in for as long as its a quick turnaround
So I bought one of those caliper alignment tools linked a few pages back - they're ok, not the best and you'll still need to do some alignment by eye. On my rotors (which are only a few hundred km old, so not worn) the tolerances weren't particularly great, enough room either side of the disc in the tool that you could see daylight.
Having said that, with the help of it I have just been able to get both front and back brake to bite, with the bite point adjuster 2/3rds way in, with about 1.5cm of free stroke. Which is not a lot!
I found the best technique is as follows:
1. set up initially with the tool, check by eye that it looks ok - chances are either the front or back will be slightly off-centre, don't worry about that for now
2. pop the pads in and get them centred as well as you can, you'll probably still see the disc being moved by the pads on the front or rear pistons at this stage (fyi, you don't want the disc being moved at all).
3. loosen the caliper bolts and make the tiny last adjustment to get the disc to sit perfectly centred between the pads - at this stage the amount of movement you've have will be limited by the pads which will be less than 1mm from the disc so it's much easier to adjust by the tiny amount that makes all the difference in these brakes.
4. One last piston alignment working each side with a flat blade screwdriver to get them perfect.
Result: no rubbing, free spinning wheels and barely any free stroke before the brakes bite.
Is the tool worth the money? Probably not, unless you're completely blind as you can get the calipers aligned by eye with the pads out easily enough. If the tool made it so no further manual alignment was needed then yes, but it's not made to close enough tolerances for it to do that. You'd probably need to CNC machine one to get it really accurate.
Mine have started leaking again after a bit over a month on the new seals. Sent them back to hope this time. Hoping they'll put a new caliper body or pistons in as now that the seals are ruled out I cant see what else it would be!
Is the leaking affecting silver ones as well or is it just black calipers.
Mine were silver
Mine have started leaking again after a bit over a month on the new seals. Sent them back to hope this time. Hoping they’ll put a new caliper body or pistons in as now that the seals are ruled out I cant see what else it would be!
Yours were quite bad weren't they, looking at your pics? Are they leaking as bad as they were before?
As a total aside, anyone know if Tech 4 levers will work with elderly Tech X2 calipers, or whether it's better to start from scratch?
Yours were quite bad weren’t they, looking at your pics? Are they leaking as bad as they were before?
Yeah they were, its the same pistons that were leaking the most before. Only noticed as its been getting noisier a few rides after being cleaned - There's enough oil to lightly contaminate the edge of the pads.
update - my rear brake went back yesterday - arrived this morning and all sorted and hopefully back out for delivery tomoz
they couldnt find evidence of a leak in action, but the back of pads were wet, so not sure if thats silicone lube or oil from what i can gather, but no evidence to suggest leaking from the pistons, he tested the measurement of the body, and as a precaution has replaced all seals and pistons, so i really cannot fault that at all, super impressed with the speed and helpfullness, i guess you do get what you pay for with some stuff, if that was a sram brake youd be waiting weeks for a repair/replacement so defo 100% top drawer service from hope
i have a quick one for anyone whose had them back from hope fixed with seals/pistons etc, do they come back already bled??? im hopefully going straight out after work tomoz and as i have external rear brake i only need to strap it on with no faff, but if i need to bleed it i wont get time.....
